Houston Flooding Could Have Been Prevented

[dannyboys]

And your point is correct. Precipitation events like Harvey are far more rare than storm surges. But when they occur, the wall would be an impediment to drainage. Still, that wall is a wise thing to build, and will give the area additional time to figure out what measures are necessary as the sea levels rise over the next decades.

Al Gore fucking GUARANTEED that by now the coastal cities would be underwater.
("Just pay separate shipping and handling for the second DVD").
The LIB asshole lives in a 14K square foot house and burns through enough electricity a year to power 30 average size homes.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Act of nature ? Sure, hurricanes are exactly that. But Hurricane Harvey’s massive troubles are as much man-made, as they are natural. A classic case of negligence gone wild, over generations.

Before Affirmative Action bumped me out of my graduate school of urban planning, I did manage to learn how lack of proper care of urban environments, can bring disaster on a catastrophic scale. The problem with Houston is too much real estate development, creating too little greenspace. Too much pavement (roads, parking lots, housing, etc), and not enough land left natural. When you pass a certain level of covered ground, you get flooding.

With soil, water can seep down into the earth. But with pavements, it lies on top, with nowhere to go, but build up higher (AKA flooding). Runoffs (streams , sewers, etc) quickly become saturated and useless.

In addition to the overdevelopment of land in the city, there is also the factor of underdevelopment of exit routes. Houston’s mayor (correctly) stated that mass evacuation was not feasible, due to the problem of traffic congestion, with dangers of accidents, and heat stroke deaths (that have occurred previously)

Again, lack of planning (or the ignoring of advice from city planners). Had more land been left unpaved (including roads), and more exit routes been constructed, Harvey would not be the catastrophe that it is.

In the old days, when roads and parking areas where dirt, generally, hurricanes’ effects were not as severe.

Poppycock...
They've done plenty to ease flooding.
When you build a large building of any type you now have to add a collection pond.
Then you have the reservoirs that incompass 40 square miles specifically designed to stop flooding and they do a great job of keeping Houston dry.
With Harvey I dont care what you did to prevent flooding you're still going to flood.

Don't be a defeatist. Nature is the enemy of man; don't let it ever have its way with us just because our illegitimate Masters refuse to pay taxes to fund infrastructure that benefits us all.

Dude I live here so I think I have a pretty good grasp of the situation.
Houston is constantly coming up with ways to reduce flooding.
I dont care how much money you throw at drainage,Harvey would have laughed at your attempts.

Just to give you an idea just how much rain Harvey produced.

"What if we took that 19 trillion gallons of water and dumped it in the Great Lakes? How much would the water levels go up in the Great Lakes.

For a one inch rise in water level on a Great Lake:

Lake Superior needs 550 billion gallons

Lake Michigan & Lake Huron need 790 billion gallons

Lake Erie needs 170 billion gallons

Lake Ontario needs 120 billion gallons.

(Correction note: Earlier Army Corps of Engineers data had Lake Erie and Lake Ontario water statistics reversed.)

So to lift the water level of the entire Great Lakes just one inch, it would take 1.63 trillion gallons.

The 19 trillion gallons of rain in the past few days over Texas would raise the the entire Great Lakes 11.66 inches. That's almost a foot of water over the entire surface of the largest freshwater lake system in the world."

The Yellow Rose in Texas

How much water would the tunnel between England and France hold? More import, how much could it dump back into the English Channel if its sole purpose were to do that? Your twisted statistics create the illusion that the rain fell all at once instead of dividing the volume by how many hours it took.

Spacious tunnels instead of sewers and closed reservoirs. Texas brags about thinking big. All brag, no fact.

LOL....give me the volume of the tunnel and we'll talk.
But given the fact that it would raise the Great lakes by a foot your tunnel would be totally inadequate for the task.
Add to the fact you'd be digging through mud and clay rather than bedrock and your tunnel scheme gets even more ridiculous.

"A Man. A Plan. A Canal. Panama!" (Palindrome)

Letting hostile Nature continually rape us is an attitude from the Stone Age. There were the same obstacles in the way of the Transcontinental Railroad, the TransAtlantic Cable, and the Panama Canal. But people didn't think your way back then.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

To all the geniuses who say Texas isnt doing enough to stop flooding.
View attachment 146881

Act of nature ? Sure, hurricanes are exactly that. But Hurricane Harvey’s massive troubles are as much man-made, as they are natural. A classic case of negligence gone wild, over generations.

Before Affirmative Action bumped me out of my graduate school of urban planning, I did manage to learn how lack of proper care of urban environments, can bring disaster on a catastrophic scale. The problem with Houston is too much real estate development, creating too little greenspace. Too much pavement (roads, parking lots, housing, etc), and not enough land left natural. When you pass a certain level of covered ground, you get flooding.

With soil, water can seep down into the earth. But with pavements, it lies on top, with nowhere to go, but build up higher (AKA flooding). Runoffs (streams , sewers, etc) quickly become saturated and useless.

In addition to the overdevelopment of land in the city, there is also the factor of underdevelopment of exit routes. Houston’s mayor (correctly) stated that mass evacuation was not feasible, due to the problem of traffic congestion, with dangers of accidents, and heat stroke deaths (that have occurred previously)

Again, lack of planning (or the ignoring of advice from city planners). Had more land been left unpaved (including roads), and more exit routes been constructed, Harvey would not be the catastrophe that it is.

In the old days, when roads and parking areas where dirt, generally, hurricanes’ effects were not as severe.

Come on. It's Texas. You know Republicans hate infrastructure spending and regulations.

Moron......
View attachment 146881

The 'barriers' didn't stop the rain from falling and flooding the city.
In some cases the 'barriers' actually kept rainwater from flowing into the ocean.

First of all those barriers aren't even there yet. Second there is going to be a sea gate that can be opened and closed.
Third we generally get more damage from storm surge than rain,which the gate will fix.
All of this was already discussed in the thread.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Poppycock...
They've done plenty to ease flooding.
When you build a large building of any type you now have to add a collection pond.
Then you have the reservoirs that incompass 40 square miles specifically designed to stop flooding and they do a great job of keeping Houston dry.
With Harvey I dont care what you did to prevent flooding you're still going to flood.

Don't be a defeatist. Nature is the enemy of man; don't let it ever have its way with us just because our illegitimate Masters refuse to pay taxes to fund infrastructure that benefits us all.

Dude I live here so I think I have a pretty good grasp of the situation.
Houston is constantly coming up with ways to reduce flooding.
I dont care how much money you throw at drainage,Harvey would have laughed at your attempts.

Just to give you an idea just how much rain Harvey produced.

"What if we took that 19 trillion gallons of water and dumped it in the Great Lakes? How much would the water levels go up in the Great Lakes.

For a one inch rise in water level on a Great Lake:

Lake Superior needs 550 billion gallons

Lake Michigan & Lake Huron need 790 billion gallons

Lake Erie needs 170 billion gallons

Lake Ontario needs 120 billion gallons.

(Correction note: Earlier Army Corps of Engineers data had Lake Erie and Lake Ontario water statistics reversed.)

So to lift the water level of the entire Great Lakes just one inch, it would take 1.63 trillion gallons.

The 19 trillion gallons of rain in the past few days over Texas would raise the the entire Great Lakes 11.66 inches. That's almost a foot of water over the entire surface of the largest freshwater lake system in the world."

The Yellow Rose in Texas

How much water would the tunnel between England and France hold? More import, how much could it dump back into the English Channel if its sole purpose were to do that? Your twisted statistics create the illusion that the rain fell all at once instead of dividing the volume by how many hours it took.

Spacious tunnels instead of sewers and closed reservoirs. Texas brags about thinking big. All brag, no fact.

LOL....give me the volume of the tunnel and we'll talk.
But given the fact that it would raise the Great lakes by a foot your tunnel would be totally inadequate for the task.
Add to the fact you'd be digging through mud and clay rather than bedrock and your tunnel scheme gets even more ridiculous.

"A Man. A Plan. A Canal. Panama!" (Palindrome)

Letting hostile Nature continually rape us is an attitude from the Stone Age. There were the same obstacles in the way of the Transcontinental Railroad, the TransAtlantic Cable, and the Panama Canal. But people didn't think your way back then.

So whats your plan to stop hurricanes?
And I cant wait to hear your solution for earthquakes.
It's a good thing we have geniuses such as yourself to save the world since those dumbassess over at the Corps of Engineers are failing so miserably.....what a bunch amateurs.

 

[Pop23]

Act of nature ? Sure, hurricanes are exactly that. But Hurricane Harvey’s massive troubles are as much man-made, as they are natural. A classic case of negligence gone wild, over generations.

Before Affirmative Action bumped me out of my graduate school of urban planning, I did manage to learn how lack of proper care of urban environments, can bring disaster on a catastrophic scale. The problem with Houston is too much real estate development, creating too little greenspace. Too much pavement (roads, parking lots, housing, etc), and not enough land left natural. When you pass a certain level of covered ground, you get flooding.

With soil, water can seep down into the earth. But with pavements, it lies on top, with nowhere to go, but build up higher (AKA flooding). Runoffs (streams , sewers, etc) quickly become saturated and useless.

In addition to the overdevelopment of land in the city, there is also the factor of underdevelopment of exit routes. Houston’s mayor (correctly) stated that mass evacuation was not feasible, due to the problem of traffic congestion, with dangers of accidents, and heat stroke deaths (that have occurred previously)

Again, lack of planning (or the ignoring of advice from city planners). Had more land been left unpaved (including roads), and more exit routes been constructed, Harvey would not be the catastrophe that it is.

In the old days, when roads and parking areas where dirt, generally, hurricanes’ effects were not as severe.

As to your last point.

The effects were not as severe because the population of these areas were far less.

Blame air conditioning for that as much as anything else.

 

[danielpalos]

Act of nature ? Sure, hurricanes are exactly that. But Hurricane Harvey’s massive troubles are as much man-made, as they are natural. A classic case of negligence gone wild, over generations.

Before Affirmative Action bumped me out of my graduate school of urban planning, I did manage to learn how lack of proper care of urban environments, can bring disaster on a catastrophic scale. The problem with Houston is too much real estate development, creating too little greenspace. Too much pavement (roads, parking lots, housing, etc), and not enough land left natural. When you pass a certain level of covered ground, you get flooding.

With soil, water can seep down into the earth. But with pavements, it lies on top, with nowhere to go, but build up higher (AKA flooding). Runoffs (streams , sewers, etc) quickly become saturated and useless.

In addition to the overdevelopment of land in the city, there is also the factor of underdevelopment of exit routes. Houston’s mayor (correctly) stated that mass evacuation was not feasible, due to the problem of traffic congestion, with dangers of accidents, and heat stroke deaths (that have occurred previously)

Again, lack of planning (or the ignoring of advice from city planners). Had more land been left unpaved (including roads), and more exit routes been constructed, Harvey would not be the catastrophe that it is.

In the old days, when roads and parking areas where dirt, generally, hurricanes’ effects were not as severe.

Infrastructure is welfare spending. The right wing, only likes "defense" spending.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Act of nature ? Sure, hurricanes are exactly that. But Hurricane Harvey’s massive troubles are as much man-made, as they are natural. A classic case of negligence gone wild, over generations.

Before Affirmative Action bumped me out of my graduate school of urban planning, I did manage to learn how lack of proper care of urban environments, can bring disaster on a catastrophic scale. The problem with Houston is too much real estate development, creating too little greenspace. Too much pavement (roads, parking lots, housing, etc), and not enough land left natural. When you pass a certain level of covered ground, you get flooding.

With soil, water can seep down into the earth. But with pavements, it lies on top, with nowhere to go, but build up higher (AKA flooding). Runoffs (streams , sewers, etc) quickly become saturated and useless.

In addition to the overdevelopment of land in the city, there is also the factor of underdevelopment of exit routes. Houston’s mayor (correctly) stated that mass evacuation was not feasible, due to the problem of traffic congestion, with dangers of accidents, and heat stroke deaths (that have occurred previously)

Again, lack of planning (or the ignoring of advice from city planners). Had more land been left unpaved (including roads), and more exit routes been constructed, Harvey would not be the catastrophe that it is.

In the old days, when roads and parking areas where dirt, generally, hurricanes’ effects were not as severe.

Infrastructure is welfare spending. The right wing, only likes "defense" spending.

Hmmm...Seawalls,massive reservoirs and levy systems.
And a planned seagate to stop storm surges.
Yeah...we're weally sitting on our hands here.
We spend untold billions on flood control yet our bridges and roads are in far better shape then up in yankee land.
Sounds like sour grapes to me.

 

[tigerred59]

I find it so ironic, Texas who recieves more in government aide than any state in the union, is the first to thumb its nose at government regulations, first to speak out against any government programs, such as ACA, first state wanting to succeed from the US since the civil war...BUT IS ALWAYS THE FIRST WITH ITS HANDS OUT WANTING HARD WORKING TAX DOLLARS FROM EVERYBODY TO HELP THEM!!

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Don't be a defeatist. Nature is the enemy of man; don't let it ever have its way with us just because our illegitimate Masters refuse to pay taxes to fund infrastructure that benefits us all.

Dude I live here so I think I have a pretty good grasp of the situation.
Houston is constantly coming up with ways to reduce flooding.
I dont care how much money you throw at drainage,Harvey would have laughed at your attempts.

Just to give you an idea just how much rain Harvey produced.

"What if we took that 19 trillion gallons of water and dumped it in the Great Lakes? How much would the water levels go up in the Great Lakes.

For a one inch rise in water level on a Great Lake:

Lake Superior needs 550 billion gallons

Lake Michigan & Lake Huron need 790 billion gallons

Lake Erie needs 170 billion gallons

Lake Ontario needs 120 billion gallons.

(Correction note: Earlier Army Corps of Engineers data had Lake Erie and Lake Ontario water statistics reversed.)

So to lift the water level of the entire Great Lakes just one inch, it would take 1.63 trillion gallons.

The 19 trillion gallons of rain in the past few days over Texas would raise the the entire Great Lakes 11.66 inches. That's almost a foot of water over the entire surface of the largest freshwater lake system in the world."

The Yellow Rose in Texas

How much water would the tunnel between England and France hold? More import, how much could it dump back into the English Channel if its sole purpose were to do that? Your twisted statistics create the illusion that the rain fell all at once instead of dividing the volume by how many hours it took.

Spacious tunnels instead of sewers and closed reservoirs. Texas brags about thinking big. All brag, no fact.

LOL....give me the volume of the tunnel and we'll talk.
But given the fact that it would raise the Great lakes by a foot your tunnel would be totally inadequate for the task.
Add to the fact you'd be digging through mud and clay rather than bedrock and your tunnel scheme gets even more ridiculous.

"A Man. A Plan. A Canal. Panama!" (Palindrome)

Letting hostile Nature continually rape us is an attitude from the Stone Age. There were the same obstacles in the way of the Transcontinental Railroad, the TransAtlantic Cable, and the Panama Canal. But people didn't think your way back then.

So whats your plan to stop hurricanes?
And I cant wait to hear your solution for earthquakes.
It's a good thing we have geniuses such as yourself to save the world since those dumbassess over at the Corps of Engineers are failing so miserably.....what a bunch amateurs.

"Fulton's Folly" and "Seward's Icebox"

They weren't paid while they were studying engineering, so they are amateurs. Unpaid education attracts only the shallow end of the talent pool; that's why they flounder in deep water.

However, I do have a plan to prevent having to read authoritarian posts promoting the stagnant status quo.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Dude I live here so I think I have a pretty good grasp of the situation.
Houston is constantly coming up with ways to reduce flooding.
I dont care how much money you throw at drainage,Harvey would have laughed at your attempts.

Just to give you an idea just how much rain Harvey produced.

"What if we took that 19 trillion gallons of water and dumped it in the Great Lakes? How much would the water levels go up in the Great Lakes.

For a one inch rise in water level on a Great Lake:

Lake Superior needs 550 billion gallons

Lake Michigan & Lake Huron need 790 billion gallons

Lake Erie needs 170 billion gallons

Lake Ontario needs 120 billion gallons.

(Correction note: Earlier Army Corps of Engineers data had Lake Erie and Lake Ontario water statistics reversed.)

So to lift the water level of the entire Great Lakes just one inch, it would take 1.63 trillion gallons.

The 19 trillion gallons of rain in the past few days over Texas would raise the the entire Great Lakes 11.66 inches. That's almost a foot of water over the entire surface of the largest freshwater lake system in the world."

The Yellow Rose in Texas

How much water would the tunnel between England and France hold? More import, how much could it dump back into the English Channel if its sole purpose were to do that? Your twisted statistics create the illusion that the rain fell all at once instead of dividing the volume by how many hours it took.

Spacious tunnels instead of sewers and closed reservoirs. Texas brags about thinking big. All brag, no fact.

LOL....give me the volume of the tunnel and we'll talk.
But given the fact that it would raise the Great lakes by a foot your tunnel would be totally inadequate for the task.
Add to the fact you'd be digging through mud and clay rather than bedrock and your tunnel scheme gets even more ridiculous.

"A Man. A Plan. A Canal. Panama!" (Palindrome)

Letting hostile Nature continually rape us is an attitude from the Stone Age. There were the same obstacles in the way of the Transcontinental Railroad, the TransAtlantic Cable, and the Panama Canal. But people didn't think your way back then.

So whats your plan to stop hurricanes?
And I cant wait to hear your solution for earthquakes.
It's a good thing we have geniuses such as yourself to save the world since those dumbassess over at the Corps of Engineers are failing so miserably.....what a bunch amateurs.

"Fulton's Folly" and "Seward's Icebox"

They weren't paid while they were studying engineering, so they are amateurs. Unpaid education attracts only the shallow end of the talent pool; that's why they flounder in deep water.

However, I do have a plan to prevent having to read authoritarian posts promoting the stagnant status quo.

The Corps of Engineers have been working on flood control since 1936.
Pretty sure they have enough experience to know what they're doing.

 

[protectionist]

I live in the hills and even we get flooded without concrete and big buildings..

If you had "concrete and big buildings", you'd get flooded worse.

 

[protectionist]

The Corps of Engineers have been working on flood control since 1936.
Pretty sure they have enough experience to know what they're doing.

Corps of Engineers (I used to belong to it) only deals with repairs. OP is talking about prevention (and the lack of it, in Houston's case)

 

[protectionist]

Moron......
View attachment 146881

This is like devising elaborate plans to chase and catch horses escaped from a barn door left open.

Better scenario >> keep barn door closed.

 

[protectionist]

Gotta call bullshit on your 'opinion' pal.
The ground under Houston is FUCKING HARD AS A ROCK CLAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In other words there is NO possibility for the surface water to be absorbed.

That is ludicrous. No place has "NO possibility for the surface water to be absorbed" Please don't exhibit idiocy. Life is painful enough as it is.

Soft enough to grow grass and trees > soft enough to absorb water. If it wasn't, there wouldn't BE any grass and trees.

.

HOUSTON, TEXAS

 

[protectionist]

Come on. It's Texas. You know Republicans hate infrastructure spending and regulations.

Don't go Republican bashing. This isn't that.

In fact I'm a Republican myself. Republicans only oppose needless OVERregulation. This is needed regulation.

 

[Old Rocks]

And your point is correct. Precipitation events like Harvey are far more rare than storm surges. But when they occur, the wall would be an impediment to drainage. Still, that wall is a wise thing to build, and will give the area additional time to figure out what measures are necessary as the sea levels rise over the next decades.

Al Gore fucking GUARANTEED that by now the coastal cities would be underwater.
("Just pay separate shipping and handling for the second DVD").
The LIB asshole lives in a 14K square foot house and burns through enough electricity a year to power 30 average size homes.

No, he did not, you stupid ass. And he has several business offices for his various enterprises operating out of his home. Instead of repeating the stupidity you hear on the AM radio, why don't you actually look up something sometime?

 

[protectionist]

So whats your plan to stop hurricanes?
And I cant wait to hear your solution for earthquakes.
It's a good thing we have geniuses such as yourself to save the world since those dumbassess over at the Corps of Engineers are failing so miserably.....what a bunch amateurs.

The plan to stop hurricanes" DAMAGE, is to limit the amount of PAVED surface. This can even be fixed in overdeveloped areas, by busting up paved surfaces that are not currently in use.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

The Corps of Engineers have been working on flood control since 1936.
Pretty sure they have enough experience to know what they're doing.

Corps of Engineers (I used to belong to it) only deals with repairs. OP is talking about prevention (and the lack of it, in Houston's case)

So do you believe a different city would have fared better?


"Additionally, both Barker and Addicks, which are designed similarly but are not identical, are undergoing a maintenance project. Two new gated structures are expected to be completed by 2020 with Granite Construction Company as the contractor.

"We are building new water control structures adjacent to the current [ones]. They are under construction. They don't work yet," Long said. The existing gated structures will hold up longer, he said, but for how long is not known. Once the new structures come online, the old ones will be decommissioned.

The new gated structures will have current technology and standards. "[They] will have similar water control capability but will be more robust, more repetitive and more resilient," Long said.

More robust, he explained, because they will be in an all-concrete tower with embedded steel; the old gated structures were lined with steel. More resilient, because their conduits will be lined with steel to prevent deterioration. And more repetitive, because the new structures will have two gates. If one were to fail, it would have a backup."

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Moron......
View attachment 146881

This is like devising elaborate plans to chase and catch horses escaped from a barn door left open.

Better scenario >> keep barn door closed.

So all the runoff floods Galveston?