Houston Flooding Could Have Been Prevented

[Moonglow]

I live in the hills and even we get flooded without concrete and big buildings..

 

[deanrd]

Act of nature ? Sure, hurricanes are exactly that. But Hurricane Harvey’s massive troubles are as much man-made, as they are natural. A classic case of negligence gone wild, over generations.

Before Affirmative Action bumped me out of my graduate school of urban planning, I did manage to learn how lack of proper care of urban environments, can bring disaster on a catastrophic scale. The problem with Houston is too much real estate development, creating too little greenspace. Too much pavement (roads, parking lots, housing, etc), and not enough land left natural. When you pass a certain level of covered ground, you get flooding.

With soil, water can seep down into the earth. But with pavements, it lies on top, with nowhere to go, but build up higher (AKA flooding). Runoffs (streams , sewers, etc) quickly become saturated and useless.

In addition to the overdevelopment of land in the city, there is also the factor of underdevelopment of exit routes. Houston’s mayor (correctly) stated that mass evacuation was not feasible, due to the problem of traffic congestion, with dangers of accidents, and heat stroke deaths (that have occurred previously)

Again, lack of planning (or the ignoring of advice from city planners). Had more land been left unpaved (including roads), and more exit routes been constructed, Harvey would not be the catastrophe that it is.

In the old days, when roads and parking areas where dirt, generally, hurricanes’ effects were not as severe.

Come on. It's Texas. You know Republicans hate infrastructure spending and regulations.

 

[Fang]

Good point by the OP. But this is an issue every where. Every city is over developed and can't manage the capacity. Think about what we've done to ourselves just about everywhere. We wake up and sit in rush hour traffic morning and night. How much time is wasted getting to and from our jobs?

 

[dannyboys]

Act of nature ? Sure, hurricanes are exactly that. But Hurricane Harvey’s massive troubles are as much man-made, as they are natural. A classic case of negligence gone wild, over generations.

Before Affirmative Action bumped me out of my graduate school of urban planning, I did manage to learn how lack of proper care of urban environments, can bring disaster on a catastrophic scale. The problem with Houston is too much real estate development, creating too little greenspace. Too much pavement (roads, parking lots, housing, etc), and not enough land left natural. When you pass a certain level of covered ground, you get flooding.

With soil, water can seep down into the earth. But with pavements, it lies on top, with nowhere to go, but build up higher (AKA flooding). Runoffs (streams , sewers, etc) quickly become saturated and useless.

In addition to the overdevelopment of land in the city, there is also the factor of underdevelopment of exit routes. Houston’s mayor (correctly) stated that mass evacuation was not feasible, due to the problem of traffic congestion, with dangers of accidents, and heat stroke deaths (that have occurred previously)

Again, lack of planning (or the ignoring of advice from city planners). Had more land been left unpaved (including roads), and more exit routes been constructed, Harvey would not be the catastrophe that it is.

In the old days, when roads and parking areas where dirt, generally, hurricanes’ effects were not as severe.

Gotta call bullshit on your 'opinion' pal.
The ground under Houston is FUCKING HARD AS A ROCK CLAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In other words there is NO possibility for the surface water to be absorbed.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

Looks like they've already been bulldozed by water.

The best solution would be to deepen the reservoirs.
But you have 40 square miles of reservoir,that wont be cheap but it also wont draw the anger of the populace.
You might be able to just dig a smaller chunk extra deep but with the low water table you're more than likely going to hit ground water and fill the damn thing up anyway.
Which leaves carving out at most 8ft. of soil over the 40 square miles.

That's why we have engineers.

It's not about fucken engineers!!
Do you think we lack the tech or something?
The city of Houston is more than 100 miles east to west. How cost effective do you think it's gonna be to cut channels to the bays? And dont even get started on the damage that would cause to the bay.

Then it all goes back to due diligence. If the necessary engineering is not possible, people should not live there.

Using that logic we should shut down every city on the coast.

Not every city on the coast is completely incapable of dealing with threats of nature.

 

[protectionist]

Act of nature ? Sure, hurricanes are exactly that. But Hurricane Harvey’s massive troubles are as much man-made, as they are natural. A classic case of negligence gone wild, over generations.

Before Affirmative Action bumped me out of my graduate school of urban planning, I did manage to learn how lack of proper care of urban environments, can bring disaster on a catastrophic scale. The problem with Houston is too much real estate development, creating too little greenspace. Too much pavement (roads, parking lots, housing, etc), and not enough land left natural. When you pass a certain level of covered ground, you get flooding.

With soil, water can seep down into the earth. But with pavements, it lies on top, with nowhere to go, but build up higher (AKA flooding). Runoffs (streams , sewers, etc) quickly become saturated and useless.

In addition to the overdevelopment of land in the city, there is also the factor of underdevelopment of exit routes. Houston’s mayor (correctly) stated that mass evacuation was not feasible, due to the problem of traffic congestion, with dangers of accidents, and heat stroke deaths (that have occurred previously)

Again, lack of planning (or the ignoring of advice from city planners). Had more land been left unpaved (including roads), and more exit routes been constructed, Harvey would not be the catastrophe that it is.

In the old days, when roads and parking areas where dirt, generally, hurricanes’ effects were not as severe.

Poppycock...
They've done plenty to ease flooding.
When you build a large building of any type you now have to add a collection pond.
Then you have the reservoirs that incompass 40 square miles specifically designed to stop flooding and they do a great job of keeping Houston dry.
With Harvey I dont care what you did to prevent flooding you're still going to flood.

Dum dum post. That;s all need be said

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

The best solution would be to deepen the reservoirs.
But you have 40 square miles of reservoir,that wont be cheap but it also wont draw the anger of the populace.
You might be able to just dig a smaller chunk extra deep but with the low water table you're more than likely going to hit ground water and fill the damn thing up anyway.
Which leaves carving out at most 8ft. of soil over the 40 square miles.

That's why we have engineers.

It's not about fucken engineers!!
Do you think we lack the tech or something?
The city of Houston is more than 100 miles east to west. How cost effective do you think it's gonna be to cut channels to the bays? And dont even get started on the damage that would cause to the bay.

Then it all goes back to due diligence. If the necessary engineering is not possible, people should not live there.

Using that logic we should shut down every city on the coast.

Not every city on the coast is completely incapable of dealing with threats of nature.

Are you kidding?
The response here has been phenomenal. Everywhere you go you see people pulling boats to the flood zones.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Act of nature ? Sure, hurricanes are exactly that. But Hurricane Harvey’s massive troubles are as much man-made, as they are natural. A classic case of negligence gone wild, over generations.

Before Affirmative Action bumped me out of my graduate school of urban planning, I did manage to learn how lack of proper care of urban environments, can bring disaster on a catastrophic scale. The problem with Houston is too much real estate development, creating too little greenspace. Too much pavement (roads, parking lots, housing, etc), and not enough land left natural. When you pass a certain level of covered ground, you get flooding.

With soil, water can seep down into the earth. But with pavements, it lies on top, with nowhere to go, but build up higher (AKA flooding). Runoffs (streams , sewers, etc) quickly become saturated and useless.

In addition to the overdevelopment of land in the city, there is also the factor of underdevelopment of exit routes. Houston’s mayor (correctly) stated that mass evacuation was not feasible, due to the problem of traffic congestion, with dangers of accidents, and heat stroke deaths (that have occurred previously)

Again, lack of planning (or the ignoring of advice from city planners). Had more land been left unpaved (including roads), and more exit routes been constructed, Harvey would not be the catastrophe that it is.

In the old days, when roads and parking areas where dirt, generally, hurricanes’ effects were not as severe.

Poppycock...
They've done plenty to ease flooding.
When you build a large building of any type you now have to add a collection pond.
Then you have the reservoirs that incompass 40 square miles specifically designed to stop flooding and they do a great job of keeping Houston dry.
With Harvey I dont care what you did to prevent flooding you're still going to flood.

Dum dum post. That;s all need be said

Do you live here?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

To all the geniuses who say Texas isnt doing enough to stop flooding.

Act of nature ? Sure, hurricanes are exactly that. But Hurricane Harvey’s massive troubles are as much man-made, as they are natural. A classic case of negligence gone wild, over generations.

Before Affirmative Action bumped me out of my graduate school of urban planning, I did manage to learn how lack of proper care of urban environments, can bring disaster on a catastrophic scale. The problem with Houston is too much real estate development, creating too little greenspace. Too much pavement (roads, parking lots, housing, etc), and not enough land left natural. When you pass a certain level of covered ground, you get flooding.

With soil, water can seep down into the earth. But with pavements, it lies on top, with nowhere to go, but build up higher (AKA flooding). Runoffs (streams , sewers, etc) quickly become saturated and useless.

In addition to the overdevelopment of land in the city, there is also the factor of underdevelopment of exit routes. Houston’s mayor (correctly) stated that mass evacuation was not feasible, due to the problem of traffic congestion, with dangers of accidents, and heat stroke deaths (that have occurred previously)

Again, lack of planning (or the ignoring of advice from city planners). Had more land been left unpaved (including roads), and more exit routes been constructed, Harvey would not be the catastrophe that it is.

In the old days, when roads and parking areas where dirt, generally, hurricanes’ effects were not as severe.

Come on. It's Texas. You know Republicans hate infrastructure spending and regulations.

Moron......

 

[Old Rocks]

Act of nature ? Sure, hurricanes are exactly that. But Hurricane Harvey’s massive troubles are as much man-made, as they are natural. A classic case of negligence gone wild, over generations.

Before Affirmative Action bumped me out of my graduate school of urban planning, I did manage to learn how lack of proper care of urban environments, can bring disaster on a catastrophic scale. The problem with Houston is too much real estate development, creating too little greenspace. Too much pavement (roads, parking lots, housing, etc), and not enough land left natural. When you pass a certain level of covered ground, you get flooding.

With soil, water can seep down into the earth. But with pavements, it lies on top, with nowhere to go, but build up higher (AKA flooding). Runoffs (streams , sewers, etc) quickly become saturated and useless.

In addition to the overdevelopment of land in the city, there is also the factor of underdevelopment of exit routes. Houston’s mayor (correctly) stated that mass evacuation was not feasible, due to the problem of traffic congestion, with dangers of accidents, and heat stroke deaths (that have occurred previously)

Again, lack of planning (or the ignoring of advice from city planners). Had more land been left unpaved (including roads), and more exit routes been constructed, Harvey would not be the catastrophe that it is.

In the old days, when roads and parking areas where dirt, generally, hurricanes’ effects were not as severe.

Poppycock...
They've done plenty to ease flooding.
When you build a large building of any type you now have to add a collection pond.
Then you have the reservoirs that incompass 40 square miles specifically designed to stop flooding and they do a great job of keeping Houston dry.
With Harvey I dont care what you did to prevent flooding you're still going to flood.

Dum dum post. That;s all need be said

No, Pro, the dum dum here is you. No matter what provisions were taken in advance, 52+" of rain in less than a week over a very large area was going to create an exceptional flood. But what is being ignored because of this huge catastrophe in the US is that we are having the same kinds of catastrophes right now in India, Japan, and China and Southeast Asia. And Lucifer continues to fry Europe.

In the coming years, precipitation events, and extreme weather events, are going to take an increasing toll on the resources of all nations and peoples.

 

[Old Rocks]

To all the geniuses who say Texas isnt doing enough to stop flooding.
View attachment 146881

Act of nature ? Sure, hurricanes are exactly that. But Hurricane Harvey’s massive troubles are as much man-made, as they are natural. A classic case of negligence gone wild, over generations.

Before Affirmative Action bumped me out of my graduate school of urban planning, I did manage to learn how lack of proper care of urban environments, can bring disaster on a catastrophic scale. The problem with Houston is too much real estate development, creating too little greenspace. Too much pavement (roads, parking lots, housing, etc), and not enough land left natural. When you pass a certain level of covered ground, you get flooding.

With soil, water can seep down into the earth. But with pavements, it lies on top, with nowhere to go, but build up higher (AKA flooding). Runoffs (streams , sewers, etc) quickly become saturated and useless.

In addition to the overdevelopment of land in the city, there is also the factor of underdevelopment of exit routes. Houston’s mayor (correctly) stated that mass evacuation was not feasible, due to the problem of traffic congestion, with dangers of accidents, and heat stroke deaths (that have occurred previously)

Again, lack of planning (or the ignoring of advice from city planners). Had more land been left unpaved (including roads), and more exit routes been constructed, Harvey would not be the catastrophe that it is.

In the old days, when roads and parking areas where dirt, generally, hurricanes’ effects were not as severe.

Come on. It's Texas. You know Republicans hate infrastructure spending and regulations.

Moron......
View attachment 146881

And, in the case of Harvey, that may have made the situation worse, as the rain created a worse situation than did the storm surge. Really, no way that such an event as Harvey is not going to be a catastrophe.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

To all the geniuses who say Texas isnt doing enough to stop flooding.
View attachment 146881

Act of nature ? Sure, hurricanes are exactly that. But Hurricane Harvey’s massive troubles are as much man-made, as they are natural. A classic case of negligence gone wild, over generations.

Before Affirmative Action bumped me out of my graduate school of urban planning, I did manage to learn how lack of proper care of urban environments, can bring disaster on a catastrophic scale. The problem with Houston is too much real estate development, creating too little greenspace. Too much pavement (roads, parking lots, housing, etc), and not enough land left natural. When you pass a certain level of covered ground, you get flooding.

With soil, water can seep down into the earth. But with pavements, it lies on top, with nowhere to go, but build up higher (AKA flooding). Runoffs (streams , sewers, etc) quickly become saturated and useless.

In addition to the overdevelopment of land in the city, there is also the factor of underdevelopment of exit routes. Houston’s mayor (correctly) stated that mass evacuation was not feasible, due to the problem of traffic congestion, with dangers of accidents, and heat stroke deaths (that have occurred previously)

Again, lack of planning (or the ignoring of advice from city planners). Had more land been left unpaved (including roads), and more exit routes been constructed, Harvey would not be the catastrophe that it is.

In the old days, when roads and parking areas where dirt, generally, hurricanes’ effects were not as severe.

Come on. It's Texas. You know Republicans hate infrastructure spending and regulations.

Moron......
View attachment 146881

And, in the case of Harvey, that may have made the situation worse, as the rain created a worse situation than did the storm surge. Really, no way that such an event as Harvey is not going to be a catastrophe.

So you dont close the gate.
My point is that we do indeed take proactive measures to stop flooding here in Houston and Galveston.

 

[Old Rocks]

And your point is correct. Precipitation events like Harvey are far more rare than storm surges. But when they occur, the wall would be an impediment to drainage. Still, that wall is a wise thing to build, and will give the area additional time to figure out what measures are necessary as the sea levels rise over the next decades.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

And your point is correct. Precipitation events like Harvey are far more rare than rain surges. But when they occur, the wall would be an impediment to drainage. Still, that wall is a wise thing to build, and will give the area additional time to figure out what measures are necessary as the sea levels rise over the next decades.

Dont know about rising sea levels part but it is a good idea.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

And it is only going to get worse folks.
Millennials are moving into cities, and they are moving in fast.
City populations will grow far quicker than in a long time. You see it happening now. HUGE apartment complexes going up as fast as they can build them, older run-down areas are being "revitalized" and every empty lot is slotted for another apartment complex.
You think cities are struggling to keep up with infrastructure and traffic now - wait another 5 years.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

And it is only going to get worse folks.
Millennials are moving into cities, and they are moving in fast.
City populations will grow far quicker than in a long time. You see it happening now. HUGE apartment complexes going up as fast as they can build them, older run-down areas are being "revitalized" and every empty lot is slotted for another apartment complex.
You think cities are struggling to keep up with infrastructure and traffic now - wait another 5 years.

Yeah..it sucks!
When we moved into our current house twelve or thirteen years ago there were only a couple of complexes around.
Now there are dozens.
The traffic went from mild during rush hour to ridiculous.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

And it is only going to get worse folks.
Millennials are moving into cities, and they are moving in fast.
City populations will grow far quicker than in a long time. You see it happening now. HUGE apartment complexes going up as fast as they can build them, older run-down areas are being "revitalized" and every empty lot is slotted for another apartment complex.
You think cities are struggling to keep up with infrastructure and traffic now - wait another 5 years.

Yeah..it sucks!
When we moved into our current house twelve or thirteen years ago there were only a couple of complexes around.
Now there are dozens.
The traffic went from mild during rush hour to ridiculous.

Absolutely, where I live there are apartment complexes going up everywhere. They are even wiping out wooded areas that have never been built on ever...and slapping them up.
Meanwhile in neighboring small towns there are empty houses everywhere. To the point of unbelievable. There are areas where you have say 10 houses lined up along a street, and there might be 4 of them empty...or more. And this is also happening all over. What is going to happen to these abandoned houses? I guess the animal habitat they are destroying by the apartment building - they will move in there.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

And it is only going to get worse folks.
Millennials are moving into cities, and they are moving in fast.
City populations will grow far quicker than in a long time. You see it happening now. HUGE apartment complexes going up as fast as they can build them, older run-down areas are being "revitalized" and every empty lot is slotted for another apartment complex.
You think cities are struggling to keep up with infrastructure and traffic now - wait another 5 years.

Yeah..it sucks!
When we moved into our current house twelve or thirteen years ago there were only a couple of complexes around.
Now there are dozens.
The traffic went from mild during rush hour to ridiculous.

Absolutely, where I live there are apartment complexes going up everywhere. They are even wiping out wooded areas that have never been built on ever...and slapping them up.
Meanwhile in neighboring small towns there are empty houses everywhere. To the point of unbelievable. There are areas where you have say 10 houses lined up along a street, and there might be 4 of them empty...or more. And this is also happening all over. What is going to happen to these abandoned houses? I guess the animal habitat they are destroying by the apartment building - they will move in there.

We dont have a problem with abandoned homes.
What caused my area to explode with new complexes was the construction of three new hospitals.
Half the people you see during rush hour are wearing scrubs.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

And it is only going to get worse folks.
Millennials are moving into cities, and they are moving in fast.
City populations will grow far quicker than in a long time. You see it happening now. HUGE apartment complexes going up as fast as they can build them, older run-down areas are being "revitalized" and every empty lot is slotted for another apartment complex.
You think cities are struggling to keep up with infrastructure and traffic now - wait another 5 years.

Yeah..it sucks!
When we moved into our current house twelve or thirteen years ago there were only a couple of complexes around.
Now there are dozens.
The traffic went from mild during rush hour to ridiculous.

Absolutely, where I live there are apartment complexes going up everywhere. They are even wiping out wooded areas that have never been built on ever...and slapping them up.
Meanwhile in neighboring small towns there are empty houses everywhere. To the point of unbelievable. There are areas where you have say 10 houses lined up along a street, and there might be 4 of them empty...or more. And this is also happening all over. What is going to happen to these abandoned houses? I guess the animal habitat they are destroying by the apartment building - they will move in there.

We dont have a problem with abandoned homes.
What caused my area to explode with new complexes was the construction of three new hospitals.
Half the people you see during rush hour are wearing scrubs.

Considerable problem here.
Smaller towns for generations were "fed" by manufacturing. After NAFTA and the continual off shoring labor - there are no jobs. Towns around here (Indiana) are in dire straights. There are plenty of areas where housing prices nose dived after 2008...they have still not recovered.
Which BTW, if one wants to retire to a peaceful town on the cheap...look no further. How about a nice 2 bedroom home with decent land space for less than $60k?

 

[dannyboys]

To all the geniuses who say Texas isnt doing enough to stop flooding.
View attachment 146881

Act of nature ? Sure, hurricanes are exactly that. But Hurricane Harvey’s massive troubles are as much man-made, as they are natural. A classic case of negligence gone wild, over generations.

Before Affirmative Action bumped me out of my graduate school of urban planning, I did manage to learn how lack of proper care of urban environments, can bring disaster on a catastrophic scale. The problem with Houston is too much real estate development, creating too little greenspace. Too much pavement (roads, parking lots, housing, etc), and not enough land left natural. When you pass a certain level of covered ground, you get flooding.

With soil, water can seep down into the earth. But with pavements, it lies on top, with nowhere to go, but build up higher (AKA flooding). Runoffs (streams , sewers, etc) quickly become saturated and useless.

In addition to the overdevelopment of land in the city, there is also the factor of underdevelopment of exit routes. Houston’s mayor (correctly) stated that mass evacuation was not feasible, due to the problem of traffic congestion, with dangers of accidents, and heat stroke deaths (that have occurred previously)

Again, lack of planning (or the ignoring of advice from city planners). Had more land been left unpaved (including roads), and more exit routes been constructed, Harvey would not be the catastrophe that it is.

In the old days, when roads and parking areas where dirt, generally, hurricanes’ effects were not as severe.

Come on. It's Texas. You know Republicans hate infrastructure spending and regulations.

Moron......
View attachment 146881

The 'barriers' didn't stop the rain from falling and flooding the city.
In some cases the 'barriers' actually kept rainwater from flowing into the ocean.