How Dem House of Rep's Can Finish Off Republicans in 2020

[Ray From Cleveland]

Guy, this wasn't something that was going on for decades. IT was something where most of the bad behavior went on during Bush's watch, when he encouraged reckless home building because he really couldn't bring back the industrial jobs.

The banks were making these loans for McMansions all the way up until 2008, when the bubble popped. It wasn't poor people buying sensible bungalow in working class neighborhoods. It was white middle class idiots who watched house flipping shows, thought they could make a quick buck selling their McMansion.

Nobody "flips" mansions, they flip houses.

Yes, it was going on for nearly a decade. Care for a link? Probably not because you don't like the truth.

But that isn't what caused the problem. A 2% increase on a $100,000 mortgage was a whopping $166.00 a month. Just not a big deal.

Nope, the real problem was that the banks took these worthless ass mortgages and sold them as investments.... and then someone yelled the emperor has no clothes.

Correct, that's what they did. What else could they do with them? They loaned money according to the Fanny Mae guidelines set forth by the government. If they refused to make loans to minorities even though they qualified under those guidelines, then they would be practicing discrimination.

$166.00 is a huge increase when you're living check to check which many of these borrowers did. The lowlife project scum that bought houses here never had any intent on paying in the first place. It was an all expense paid vacation in the suburbs. It took the banks several years to catch up and process all those foreclosures. In the meantime, they rob, stole, killed and attacked people while here. Several of our businesses closed up because it got too dangerous to stay open. Thank you federal government.

No, the bottom line was the banks didn't care... because they thought they could foreclose on the house and sell it off to the next sucker. Until they couldn't.

No, they didn't care because they were selling most of those loans anyway.

That was the problem. They LIED about the value of those mortgages when they sold them off. That's why the system collapsed. Not because poor people were buying houses, but because the banksters were cheating the system.

And why shouldn't they? They all got bailouts, not a single fucking one of them went to jail for fraud, some of them even got to keep their seven figure bonuses!

Moody's rated those bundled securities--not banks. Furthermore you need better news sources if you're going to discuss this topic--not false leftist talking points. Here, I'll even use one of your own, the Clinton News Network:

35 bankers were sent to prison for financial crisis crimes

Derp, which wasn't poor people... it was middle class people who should have known better... Derp...

Republican Battered Housewife theater... get fucked up the ass by the One Percent, blame poor people.

The one percent didn't go looking for people, people came to them. And it was both, the middle-class and the poor that took those loans. The middle-class who didn't hire a lawyer or agent to explain what they were getting into, and the poor who didn't care. All they knew is if they signed a bunch of papers, they would have a house in the suburbs to live for a while.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You're talking about what happened towards the end. Builders built new homes because the demand was so high. When the market crashed, of course there was no way to sell those new homes. Nobody would buy them and even if they wanted to, banks quit lending money for home purchases.

Guy, this wasn't something that was going on for decades. IT was something where most of the bad behavior went on during Bush's watch, when he encouraged reckless home building because he really couldn't bring back the industrial jobs.

The banks were making these loans for McMansions all the way up until 2008, when the bubble popped. It wasn't poor people buying sensible bungalow in working class neighborhoods. It was white middle class idiots who watched house flipping shows, thought they could make a quick buck selling their McMansion.

The housing bubble was created over many years. It just didn't happen in one or two. Interest rates were low and risky buyers could only buy homes on an ARM. These were people ignorant of loans and interest rates. So they bought homes on an ARM at 2% and could make payments. When it went to 4%, they could no longer afford the home and just waited until they got foreclosed on.

But that isn't what caused the problem. A 2% increase on a $100,000 mortgage was a whopping $166.00 a month. Just not a big deal.

Nope, the real problem was that the banks took these worthless ass mortgages and sold them as investments.... and then someone yelled the emperor has no clothes.

The bottom line is that if banks only lent money to people that had the ability to repay, the crash never would have happened because the bubble would have never happened.

No, the bottom line was the banks didn't care... because they thought they could foreclose on the house and sell it off to the next sucker. Until they couldn't.

Banks generally have two loans for homes: prime loans and subprime loans. Prime loans are when he bank funds the loan themselves. In other words, the bank uses their own money. Subprime loans are just that, below prime. They were created to give people home loans that didn't qualify for prime loans. But the bank doesn't hold on to those loans. They sell those loans off.

That was the problem. They LIED about the value of those mortgages when they sold them off. That's why the system collapsed. Not because poor people were buying houses, but because the banksters were cheating the system.

And why shouldn't they? They all got bailouts, not a single fucking one of them went to jail for fraud, some of them even got to keep their seven figure bonuses!

McMansions, that's where all the subprime loans were.....DERP!

Derp, which wasn't poor people... it was middle class people who should have known better... Derp...

Republican Battered Housewife theater... get fucked up the ass by the One Percent, blame poor people.

Derp, which wasn't poor people... it was middle class people who should have known better...

Ummm...those weren't subprime loans.

 

[JoeB131]

Nobody "flips" mansions, they flip houses.

Yes, it was going on for nearly a decade. Care for a link? Probably not because you don't like the truth.

The truth is... um, no, White MIddle Class people were buying these big houses they didn't need on the hope of making a huge profit on them. The home builders built more of them than the market needed, and the prices collapsed.

And, yeah, it got a lot worse under Bush, because that was the only economic 'growth' he could produce.

Correct, that's what they did. What else could they do with them? They loaned money according to the Fanny Mae guidelines set forth by the government. If they refused to make loans to minorities even though they qualified under those guidelines, then they would be practicing discrimination.

Again, Minorities weren't the problem here... it was dumb ass white people.

In fact, the problem is ALWAYS dumb ass white people.

Moody's rated those bundled securities--not banks. Furthermore you need better news sources if you're going to discuss this topic--not false leftist talking points. Here, I'll even use one of your own, the Clinton News Network:

Did you actually read your own article?

Many of the crimes involved relatively small amounts of money at smaller banks, rather than massive fraud at Wall Street banks.

Sorry, man, you lose Trillions of dollars and send a few small fries to "Club Fed". BULLSHIT> You go after the executives and you throw them into big boy prison with the murderers and rapists.

But again, battered housewife Republicans.. Don't go after the rich that cause the problem, blame poor people.

The one percent didn't go looking for people, people came to them.

Oh, so all those bank commercials trying to get my business are just figments of my imagination.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The truth is... um, no, White MIddle Class people were buying these big houses they didn't need on the hope of making a huge profit on them. The home builders built more of them than the market needed, and the prices collapsed.

And, yeah, it got a lot worse under Bush, because that was the only economic 'growth' he could produce.

Yes it got worse under Bush because he got the economy going again and people had money.

Yes, people invested in homes hoping to flip them. See, those are people that don't sit around complaining what other people have. Those were people that took risks and tried to be one of those people you constantly complain about. They tried to be successful.

And before you blame them, the same thing happened during the Clinton years where people were dumping every last time they had into the market. That was great until the market collapsed because it was a tech bubble that created it.

Again, Minorities weren't the problem here... it was dumb ass white people.

In fact, the problem is ALWAYS dumb ass white people.

You say that with prejudice only because you are a self-hating white. But the program of getting more minorities into homes and changing the guidelines to do it started under Clinton. If not for that, those evil white people would not have had the opportunity to create the housing bubble.

Did you actually read your own article?

Many of the crimes involved relatively small amounts of money at smaller banks, rather than massive fraud at Wall Street banks.

Sorry, man, you lose Trillions of dollars and send a few small fries to "Club Fed". BULLSHIT> You go after the executives and you throw them into big boy prison with the murderers and rapists.

But again, battered housewife Republicans.. Don't go after the rich that cause the problem, blame poor people.

You said not one banker went to prison over it. I proved you wrong.

Oh, so all those bank commercials trying to get my business are just figments of my imagination.

If you get fat from eating too many big macs, do you blame McDonald's for advertising them?

 

[JoeB131]

Yes it got worse under Bush because he got the economy going again and people had money.

Yes, people invested in homes hoping to flip them. See, those are people that don't sit around complaining what other people have. Those were people that took risks and tried to be one of those people you constantly complain about. They tried to be successful.

Awesome. Then those people should have taken their losses. No bank bailouts, no TARP, no HARP... you know, getting the rest of us who didn't take foolish risks to bail out their stupidity...

But we kind of had to in order to keep the economy from completely collapsing.

Capitalizing gain, socializing risk... Hmmmm....

And before you blame them, the same thing happened during the Clinton years where people were dumping every last time they had into the market. That was great until the market collapsed because it was a tech bubble that created it.

Here's the thing... the Clinton economy was fine. Then Bush stole the election and proceeded to do all the things Republicans tend to do to fuck things up...

Recessions aren't a bug of Republican Governance... they are a design feature.

You say that with prejudice only because you are a self-hating white. But the program of getting more minorities into homes and changing the guidelines to do it started under Clinton. If not for that, those evil white people would not have had the opportunity to create the housing bubble.

No, these were TWO SEPARATE things. The banks who made loans under the CRA were HIGHLY REGULATED AND AUDITED to make sure they weren't taking foolish risks or cheating their customers. The banks that were loaning money to stupid white people buying McMansions weren't regulated, made bad loans, sold those bad loans off as investments to unsuspecting idiots, and the whole system collapsed.

If the whole thing had been regulated and watched, this wouldn't have happened.

You said not one banker went to prison over it. I proved you wrong.

Guy, in a ten year period, you are going to always find 35 crooks working for banks... not impressive at all. Where are the CEO's who went to prison? Not the low-level loan officer who fudged an application.

If you get fat from eating too many big macs, do you blame McDonald's for advertising them?

Um, yeah... actually, I do, when McDonalds started pushing their unhealthy crap on kids starting pretty much from infancy... luring parents with playgrounds and using clowns to sell their product.

The banks told the Stupid White people they could get rich quick buying McMansions... which is what caused the Great Recession. They got to keep their jobs, none of them went to jail for it, and many of them got to keep their big bonuses...

MEANWHILE, the rest of us got slapped with higher interest payments and fees so they could pay back what they lost.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Awesome. Then those people should have taken their losses. No bank bailouts, no TARP, no HARP... you know, getting the rest of us who didn't take foolish risks to bail out their stupidity...

But we kind of had to in order to keep the economy from completely collapsing.

Capitalizing gain, socializing risk... Hmmmm....

None of this would have happened if government didn't stick their politics into the banking system. Put the blame where it rightfully belongs. Banks would never have put themselves in that position if not for government. We had a strong and secure lending system, but it didn't meet the expectations of Democrats for their constituents. So they changed it.

Here's the thing... the Clinton economy was fine. Then Bush stole the election and proceeded to do all the things Republicans tend to do to fuck things up...

Recessions aren't a bug of Republican Governance... they are a design feature.

The economy was not fine because it was a bubble just like the housing bubble. No different. It too collapsed, just not as bad as the housing bubble. Like the housing bubble, there were people that lost everything. I knew a few of those people.

No, these were TWO SEPARATE things. The banks who made loans under the CRA were HIGHLY REGULATED AND AUDITED to make sure they weren't taking foolish risks or cheating their customers. The banks that were loaning money to stupid white people buying McMansions weren't regulated, made bad loans, sold those bad loans off as investments to unsuspecting idiots, and the whole system collapsed.

If the whole thing had been regulated and watched, this wouldn't have happened.

This has little to do with the CRA's. This had to do with government lowering standards for lending institutions. In this country, you cannot lower standard for just one group of people. That's why people with money got involved. They got in on the action.

Guy, in a ten year period, you are going to always find 35 crooks working for banks... not impressive at all. Where are the CEO's who went to prison? Not the low-level loan officer who fudged an application.

The CEO's didn't break any laws. It's those small bankers that did.

Um, yeah... actually, I do, when McDonalds started pushing their unhealthy crap on kids starting pretty much from infancy... luring parents with playgrounds and using clowns to sell their product.

The banks told the Stupid White people they could get rich quick buying McMansions... which is what caused the Great Recession. They got to keep their jobs, none of them went to jail for it, and many of them got to keep their big bonuses...

MEANWHILE, the rest of us got slapped with higher interest payments and fees so they could pay back what they lost.

Most of what they took from the government was paid back. And McDonald's has been advertising my entire life. It's the leftist push for working women that led to people using fast food as a daily staple. Two parent families often don't have the time to prepare healthy meals like when we were kids when mothers were home taking care of the family.

Banks didn't tell people do to anything. People made that decision on their own. Talk about blaming the woman for being raped.

 

[kyzr]

Take a break and have some turkey and wine. You guys earned it with your non-stop arguments over the last few days. Call it halftime...

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Take a break and have some turkey and wine. You guys earned it with your non-stop arguments over the last few days. Call it halftime...

Nah, too much fun. On vacation this week and enjoying every day of it.

 

[hadit]

House Democrat's can finish off Republicans in both the Senate and House of Rep's and take back rhe White House opening an opportunity to pack federal courts, including the Supreme Court with overwhelming liberal judges.

Tax reform can change America in one masterful plan. All the House must do is propose large tax cuts for the middle and lower tax brackets and eliminate all the breaks and loopholes going to the super high upper-income folks and obscenely rich. America will love the plan and flock to the voting polls.

Works on the assumption that Americans are smart enough to understand the tax legislation when most of us can't even figure out how to fill out our own 1040's.

All that said, what happens in 2020 will depend on a couple of things.

1) The state of the economy.. If the economy is still where it's at now, Trump will probably be re-elected. He might even be legitimately elected this time without help from the Anachronistic College or the Russians. If the economy is in the shitter, he's toast.

2) Do conservatives - real conservatives - mount a challenge to Trump in the primaries or in a third party.

3) Do the Democrats find a good candidate this time. My biggest worry about 2020 is that the Bernie Bros manage to bully some nut into the nomination.... proposing a lot of crazy stuff Americans just won't go for.

I think you are correct.

 

[JoeB131]

None of this would have happened if government didn't stick their politics into the banking system. Put the blame where it rightfully belongs. Banks would never have put themselves in that position if not for government. We had a strong and secure lending system, but it didn't meet the expectations of Democrats for their constituents. So they changed it.

I do put the blame where it belongs. ON Greedy bankers...

Poor people didn't collapse the system.. Greedy bankers did.

The economy was not fine because it was a bubble just like the housing bubble. No different. It too collapsed, just not as bad as the housing bubble. Like the housing bubble, there were people that lost everything. I knew a few of those people.

Yeah, I know, the right wing myth that the Pets.com puppet caused the First Bush Recession.

"Bwahahahahahahaha!"

Reality... the 2001 recession was caused because there was too much inventory on everything...and not enough people buying. The few chumps who invested in Pets.com were not the problem.

This has little to do with the CRA's. This had to do with government lowering standards for lending institutions. In this country, you cannot lower standard for just one group of people. That's why people with money got involved. They got in on the action.

Okay, CRA isn't plural. It stands for "Community Reinvestment Act" and it held that the Banksters couldn't discriminate against people based on where they lived or wanted to buy, a practice known as "Redlining" minority areas. It had nothing to do with lowering standards. If someone had a 400 credit score and a poor job history, he still wasn't getting a loan.

The problem was, Bush's SECOND recession was caused when white people with 700 Credit scores lost their jobs and couldn't sell off their McMansions..

The CEO's didn't break any laws. It's those small bankers that did.

No, the CEO's were responsible. They set the standards. They bribed the politicians to look the other way.

Most of what they took from the government was paid back. And McDonald's has been advertising my entire life. It's the leftist push for working women that led to people using fast food as a daily staple. Two parent families often don't have the time to prepare healthy meals like when we were kids when mothers were home taking care of the family.

Um, no, dummy... The "push" for working women was right wingers busting up Dad's Old Good Union Salary.

Banks didn't tell people do to anything. People made that decision on their own. Talk about blaming the woman for being raped.

Yeah, again, after the banks told them they could get easy money flipping houses...

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Okay, CRA isn't plural. It stands for "Community Reinvestment Act" and it held that the Banksters couldn't discriminate against people based on where they lived or wanted to buy, a practice known as "Redlining" minority areas. It had nothing to do with lowering standards. If someone had a 400 credit score and a poor job history, he still wasn't getting a loan.

Correct, and that's why they lowered the standards so people with that bad of credit could get a loan.

The problem was, Bush's SECOND recession was caused when white people with 700 Credit scores lost their jobs and couldn't sell off their McMansions..

Sorry, but there were never enough McMansions to cause such a major collapse. There were only a handful of people doing that kind of thing. Most of the people were the ones who bought homes they knew they could never afford, or bought homes they thought they could afford which they did until the interest rates increased.

Um, no, dummy... The "push" for working women was right wingers busting up Dad's Old Good Union Salary.

Right wingers had nothing to do with unions. That's leftist urban legend. It was not right wingers busting up Dad's salary, it was left wingers busting up US families; catering to the women's lib movement who promoted single parent households and for women to get out of the kitchen and into the workforce.

Yeah, again, after the banks told them they could get easy money flipping houses...

The banks could care less about what you did with a house. The banks business is to give loans, and that's exactly what they did.

 

[JoeB131]

Correct, and that's why they lowered the standards so people with that bad of credit could get a loan.

Except they didn't... the problem was that the banks were loaning money to people for more house than they needed..

The CRA regulated who they could loan to, so there were no real problems with those loans.

Right wingers had nothing to do with unions. That's leftist urban legend. It was not right wingers busting up Dad's salary, it was left wingers busting up US families; catering to the women's lib movement who promoted single parent households and for women to get out of the kitchen and into the workforce.

Are you some kind of special retard? Did you miss the part where Reagan fired the PATCO workers and declared open season on the Unions?

Women actually being something other than baby Machines!!! What a horrible left wing plot. You mean they have other parts besides the baby making ones?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Correct, and that's why they lowered the standards so people with that bad of credit could get a loan.

Except they didn't... the problem was that the banks were loaning money to people for more house than they needed..

The CRA regulated who they could loan to, so there were no real problems with those loans.

Right wingers had nothing to do with unions. That's leftist urban legend. It was not right wingers busting up Dad's salary, it was left wingers busting up US families; catering to the women's lib movement who promoted single parent households and for women to get out of the kitchen and into the workforce.

Are you some kind of special retard? Did you miss the part where Reagan fired the PATCO workers and declared open season on the Unions?

Women actually being something other than baby Machines!!! What a horrible left wing plot. You mean they have other parts besides the baby making ones?

Except they didn't... the problem was that the banks were loaning money to people for more house than they needed..

Clinton, and later Bush, forced Fannie and Freddie to buy trillions in subprime loans.

Did you miss the part where Reagan fired the PATCO workers and declared open season on the Unions?

That was awesome!
We need to outlaw all public unions.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Except they didn't... the problem was that the banks were loaning money to people for more house than they needed..

The CRA regulated who they could loan to, so there were no real problems with those loans.

The CRA was not about who they could loan to, the CRA was about who they couldn't refuse. And I have no idea why you keep bringing it up. CRA's were invented during Carter's administration--not Bush's or Clinton's.

I know you can't stand to think I'm right and you are wrong, so here's one from your very own, the New York Slimes:

By STEVEN A. HOLMESSEPT. 30, 1999

In a move that could help increase home ownership rates among minorities and low-income consumers, the Fannie Mae Corporation is easing the credit requirements on loans that it will purchase from banks and other lenders.

The action, which will begin as a pilot program involving 24 banks in 15 markets -- including the New York metropolitan region -- will encourage those banks to extend home mortgages to individuals whose credit is generally not good enough to qualify for conventional loans. Fannie Mae officials say they hope to make it a nationwide program by next spring.

Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, has been under increasing pressure from the Clinton Administration to expand mortgage loans among low and moderate income people and felt pressure from stock holders to maintain its phenomenal growth in profits.

Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending

Are you some kind of special retard? Did you miss the part where Reagan fired the PATCO workers and declared open season on the Unions?

Women actually being something other than baby Machines!!! What a horrible left wing plot. You mean they have other parts besides the baby making ones?

Yes, Reagan fired them because they were not allowed to strike in the first place. But that's all he did. One tiny union in the country. The rest was reactionary by the people and industry when jobs started leaving the country by the millions to get away from unions. That continued many ears after Reagan left the White House.

 

[JoeB131]

That was awesome!
We need to outlaw all public unions.

Yeah, we don't need public workers making a living wage... derp.

 

[JoeB131]

The CRA was not about who they could loan to, the CRA was about who they couldn't refuse. And I have no idea why you keep bringing it up. CRA's were invented during Carter's administration--not Bush's or Clinton's.

Well, you keep calling the plural when they were one act, that's why I don't think you know what the fuck you are talking aobut.

Yes, they could NO LONGER REFUSE people based on their race, where they lived, or where they wanted to buy. That was the whole point.

Yes, Reagan fired them because they were not allowed to strike in the first place. But that's all he did. One tiny union in the country. The rest was reactionary by the people and industry when jobs started leaving the country by the millions to get away from unions. That continued many ears after Reagan left the White House.

It wasn't a tiny union. What he said there was that if an employer wanted to bust his union, the government would no longer interfere. The government would in fact put people's LIVES IN DANGER rather than play fair with working people.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Well, you keep calling the plural when they were one act, that's why I don't think you know what the fuck you are talking aobut.

Yes, they could NO LONGER REFUSE people based on their race, where they lived, or where they wanted to buy. That was the whole point.

There were not one act. They are two totally separate subjects. You're the one who thinks that lowering lending regulations on everybody is the same as CRA's when it's not. CRA's were in place many years before Clinton had Fanny lower their standards. These were even lower than the CRA's.

It wasn't a tiny union. What he said there was that if an employer wanted to bust his union, the government would no longer interfere. The government would in fact put people's LIVES IN DANGER rather than play fair with working people.

Putting peoples lives in danger is what Reagan stopped. Our federal government should not be forcing industry to be hostage to any FN union. That's between the unions and them. Government should stay out of it and give businesses the opportunity to stay in their state or country instead of being forced to leave.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

That was awesome!
We need to outlaw all public unions.

Yeah, we don't need public workers making a living wage... derp.

They definitely should.
The 50% who are actually needed shouldn't get more than a 25% cut.....maybe 30%.

 

[JoeB131]

There were not one act. They are two totally separate subjects. You're the one who thinks that lowering lending regulations on everybody is the same as CRA's when it's not. CRA's were in place many years before Clinton had Fanny lower their standards. These were even lower than the CRA's.

Neither of which had to do with the housing bubble.

In fact, the Housing bubble made it harder for minorities to buy homes, not easier. The place were I live... bunch of condos where the prices went up really high... until the crash, and all the idiots who bought them as investments couldn't unload them and rented them out to whoever.

Putting peoples lives in danger is what Reagan stopped. Our federal government should not be forcing industry to be hostage to any FN union. That's between the unions and them. Government should stay out of it and give businesses the opportunity to stay in their state or country instead of being forced to leave.

The PATCO guys were striking for better equipment and procedures... and Reagan screwed them. and working folks in general.

Actually, what government needs to do is treat corporations the way they treat the Mafia... Except the Mafia has more ethics.

When they start trying to screw their workers, that should trigger an automatic IRS audit, and if they find big payments to mistresses, make sure that Mrs. Corporate Asshole knows what Mr. Corporate Asshole is up to.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Neither of which had to do with the housing bubble.

In fact, the Housing bubble made it harder for minorities to buy homes, not easier. The place were I live... bunch of condos where the prices went up really high... until the crash, and all the idiots who bought them as investments couldn't unload them and rented them out to whoever.

Oh please, like I said, you're talking about a fraction of people who tried to make profits off of housing and then lost out. The bulk of it was loans out to people for their own houses that had little or no ability to pay the bank back. Tens of millions were not flipping houses. Tens of millions were getting home loans with no credit check and no down payment.

The PATCO guys were striking for better equipment and procedures... and Reagan screwed them. and working folks in general.

Actually, what government needs to do is treat corporations the way they treat the Mafia... Except the Mafia has more ethics.

When they start trying to screw their workers, that should trigger an automatic IRS audit, and if they find big payments to mistresses, make sure that Mrs. Corporate Asshole knows what Mr. Corporate Asshole is up to.

The problem is that people like you refuse to look at reality. And the reality is the more problems and costs you create for businesses, the more businesses move out. They can't compete with foreign competition with books of rules, high taxes and strong unions. It's just too costly and too much of a headache. Trust me, we've lost a lot of customers who moved out of state or out of the country. Nearly every one of them did so to get away from the unions.