How do people survive on minimum wage?

[Ernie S.]

So, what is the complex answer?

The callous conservative answer is, "it's all about personal responsibility"; and that CG is a simple answer and a simple solution solved by saying or thinking, "I got mine, screw the rest of them".

There doesn't need to be a complex answer. Minimum wage, whether you agree with the concept or not is an entry level, bottom of the barrel wage for unskilled high school kids.
I started work in a machine shop for $1.25 in 1967. Did I want more money? Hell yes. Was I worth more money? Hell no. I had zero experience, no tools of my own. All I had was a good mechanical aptitude, but the guy that hired me had no knowledge of my potential.
After a couple of weeks, he saw a capable worker with some promise. I got a raise from a buck and a quarter, (that's $50 for a 40 hour week) to $2.00
2 months later, $4.00 and within my first year I was making six bucks.
Minimum wage workers have 3 choices. They can suck it up and be happy at $7.25/hour, show their ability to learn and prove to their employer that they are worth more money, or leave and further their education so they can qualify for a job in a more lucrative field. I ended up doing the latter 2. Hell yes I was unhappy making minimum wage, but I had to MAKE myself worth more.

Guess what, in 1968 MW had the highest spending power in history, today it has the lowest. The machine shops have all shipped out to China and we are inundated with fast food restaurants. Now think about it, if you had to start over today, do you really believe it would be as simple as it was then?

Yes I do. It might not be in a machine shop. More likely HVAC or I would have finished my degree BEFORE I married and started a family. As it was, I started in machine shops, moved into repairing, then developing automated assembly equipment, then optics equipment and by the time I had my education complete, I had a huge box of skills. I ended my career designing scientific instruments, the stuff you see in the labs on CSI and such. Not only was I qualified to draw pretty pictures on a computer screen, I was qualified to take a pile of metal and make the parts, grind and polish the optics and add wiring and plumbing.
Like I said, I learned skills; marketable skills that when combined made me valuable. If I wanted to go back to work today, I could work as a plumber, an electrician, a master machinist, I could do body work, carpentry or design and build instruments or machines.
I could weld, build or repair computers, do tile floors or become a professional hit man. I can drill a well and install your entire residential water system or design a lasic surgery machine.

I made myself worth more money and I adapted to markets. I didn't wait for Congress to decide I was worth more money.

 

[Google]

BTW I know multiple people that exploit government assistance, namely food stamps, that make as much money as me and don't need it. I go to class with a guy that adviced me on how to get unemployment for the maximum amount of time, just fill out applications you don't have to accept the job

I also know people who exploit government assistance...what does that have to do with a woman that is over 50 and can't find a job? BTW, she's not on ANY assistance right now other than the assistance she is getting from her family. Her unemployment ran out a long time ago. And more importantly, what does that have to do with raising the MW? There are a lot of people today who don't want charity, they want to work and they want to pay their own way, our country, our economy and our government has made that impossible for now.

Well you brought up the 50 year old. And it has nothing to do with the MW. I do believe people are proud, but you cant expect to be a household on MW. Guess what no matter what you put it at MW will still suck. If you bump it, then that rent they cant pay now, will go up and that hamburget at McDonalds goes up, so you dont really solve anything, just create inflation.

And guess what the people that did make more than the MW that are making MW after the bump will now be worse off, not better, because they're not going to get a raise to compensate for the inflation caused by the MW.

Explaining this to a leftist is like trying to teach a cat algebra.

"Why would things cost more if we quadrupled minimum wage? That is right wing lies!!"

This is the same reason why they can't figure out that the left's war on the energy sector leads to increase costs of everything.

 

[healthmyths]

BTW I know multiple people that exploit government assistance, namely food stamps, that make as much money as me and don't need it. I go to class with a guy that adviced me on how to get unemployment for the maximum amount of time, just fill out applications you don't have to accept the job

I also know people who exploit government assistance...what does that have to do with a woman that is over 50 and can't find a job? BTW, she's not on ANY assistance right now other than the assistance she is getting from her family. Her unemployment ran out a long time ago. And more importantly, what does that have to do with raising the MW? There are a lot of people today who don't want charity, they want to work and they want to pay their own way, our country, our economy and our government has made that impossible for now.

Because you offer that one example of that 50 year old woman that has no job and is not homeless and not on government assistance and that is supposed to prove your entire premise.

I personally don't believe your example, but that is neither here nor there.

Not one liberal has rebutted the fact that only 2.2% of American workers are paid minimum wage, of which the vast majority is teenagers and food servers. The myth that adults are forced to raise a family on minimum wage is bullshit. I personally know illegal immigrants, I work with them, that have several children and make more than minimum wage washing dishes.

Real world experience disproves the false narrative that you so desperately cling to.

You are 100% right!!
Hyperbole, anecdotal stories always seem to take the spotlight and YET they are the exception as you point out!

But as another comment said, with a President who moans and groans and complains about evil big oil profits, and profits and millionaire/billionaires... there is NO logical reason for the people WITH money to do anything other then WAIT!
Wait till this idiot President get's like Carter totally kicked out!
I stupidly voted for Carter and CARTER was infinitely more qualified then Obama!
But as was with Carter Obama is an arrogant pompous educational elitist who will always know better then anyone else !
But Carter still was and believed in America even served in the Navy.. BUT Obama??
I will never forget his calling US troops civilian killers! Then this dick does his pompous insolent salute to men Obama isn't good even to wipe their butts!

Fortunately more people are looking beyond his skin color now and realize Obama wants to destroy America.. he's even said so!
He favors single payer insurance.. destroy 1,400 companies lay off 400,000 reduce $100 billion in tax revenues.
He says utilities will be bankrupt if they don't follow his EPA!
He said and I quote: " I’d like higher gas prices, just not so quickly"
Obama: I’d like higher gas prices, just not so quickly « Hot Air

So tell me if it walks like a duck, quack likes a duck... geez maybe Obama does want to destroy the country!

 

[Againsheila]

BTW I know multiple people that exploit government assistance, namely food stamps, that make as much money as me and don't need it. I go to class with a guy that adviced me on how to get unemployment for the maximum amount of time, just fill out applications you don't have to accept the job

I also know people who exploit government assistance...what does that have to do with a woman that is over 50 and can't find a job? BTW, she's not on ANY assistance right now other than the assistance she is getting from her family. Her unemployment ran out a long time ago. And more importantly, what does that have to do with raising the MW? There are a lot of people today who don't want charity, they want to work and they want to pay their own way, our country, our economy and our government has made that impossible for now.

Because you offer that one example of that 50 year old woman that has no job and is not homeless and not on government assistance and that is supposed to prove your entire premise.

I personally don't believe your example, but that is neither here nor there.

Not one liberal has rebutted the fact that only 2.2% of American workers are paid minimum wage, of which the vast majority is teenagers and food servers. The myth that adults are forced to raise a family on minimum wage is bullshit. I personally know illegal immigrants, I work with them, that have several children and make more than minimum wage washing dishes.

Real world experience disproves the false narrative that you so desperately cling to.

Your illegal friend and his kids are why so many Americans are underpaid and can't find jobs today. I have a friend who started working in construction in 1976, making $15.00 an hour, thanks to your illegals, he's making that same pay today, mostly fixing the mistakes the illegals have made. You've called me a liar, I call you a traitor to your country and your people. Don't bother answer, I've ignored you.

 

[flacaltenn]

Unemployment lasts for 10 years? Since when?

BTW, I know a woman who lost her job 3 years ago, she's over 50 and can't find a new job. She's even tried the fast food joints and all the restaurants around here. blah...blah....blah

30 millon Mexicans swim a river and hike through a dessert to find a job.

Maybe your friend should go to where jobs are rather than waiting "around there."

For christssakes, its not that complicated.

Where are the jobs?

They are in the sciences and engineering.. When the global economy took off, we were warned that we'd never be making tennis shoes again and that we better up our game and learn to do the stuff that the rest of the world hasn't figured out yet..

That's NOT a swipe at service jobs. My niece did extremely well as a waitress in a busy popular restaurant until she went into Law Enforcement. But the LEAD out of bleeding middle class jobs to the rest of the world is to INNOVATE, START COMPANIES, and LEAD in biotech, materials, robotics, artificial intelligience, software, logistics, etc, etc, (broken record).. All other jobs should follow.. We CANNOT service each other to death..

NOT with "green jobs" or "shovel ready" jobs.. We are being led down the tubes and TIME'S A' Wasting folks.. Change it or kiss it goodbye..

 

[Ernie S.]

My son is 27 years old, graduated with honors from a 2 year program at DeVry University. He's not yet found a job. He does live at home, but he's special needs (high functioning autism). Is it you opinion that I should put him out on the street simply because he can't find a job? He does get disability, a whopping $445 a month...yeah, that'll buy an apartment. Do you honestly believe being homeless is going to somehow get him a job?

I in no way want to insult your son, but he is not the norm. Liberals always use these examples to try to prove a point. Just like the adult with three kids trying to survive on minimum wage as the example that it needs to be raised when in reality of the 2.2% of American workers earning minimum wage less than 1% of that would actually fit into that narrative.

Now of all of the people in your son's situation what percentage would you say face the same difficulties as him? And I apologize, but you are the one that decided to interject him into this debate.

Ah, but more than 75% of MW workers are adults.

As for my son, I imagine most of them would be in the same situation. He has a friend who is "normal" and graduated from the local community college and is working as a security guard nearly 80 hours a week and can't afford his own apartment.
Things today are not like they were when we graduated from highschool.

80 hours/week? Let's see 40 hrs at minimum wage is $290. another 40 hours at 1.5 times minimum wage is $335. That's $725/week and he can't afford an apartment? WTF not?

 

[Againsheila]

I in no way want to insult your son, but he is not the norm. Liberals always use these examples to try to prove a point. Just like the adult with three kids trying to survive on minimum wage as the example that it needs to be raised when in reality of the 2.2% of American workers earning minimum wage less than 1% of that would actually fit into that narrative.

Now of all of the people in your son's situation what percentage would you say face the same difficulties as him? And I apologize, but you are the one that decided to interject him into this debate.

Ah, but more than 75% of MW workers are adults.

As for my son, I imagine most of them would be in the same situation. He has a friend who is "normal" and graduated from the local community college and is working as a security guard nearly 80 hours a week and can't afford his own apartment.
Things today are not like they were when we graduated from highschool.

80 hours/week? Let's see 40 hrs at minimum wage is $290. another 40 hours at 1.5 times minimum wage is $335. That's $725/week and he can't afford an apartment? WTF not?

He just left his girlfriend. She kept the apartment, now he has to come up with first/last and deposit all over again in a place were a low cost apartment is about $700 a month not including utilities and he has to pay his rent where he's living at the time.

 

[Google]

I also know people who exploit government assistance...what does that have to do with a woman that is over 50 and can't find a job? BTW, she's not on ANY assistance right now other than the assistance she is getting from her family. Her unemployment ran out a long time ago. And more importantly, what does that have to do with raising the MW? There are a lot of people today who don't want charity, they want to work and they want to pay their own way, our country, our economy and our government has made that impossible for now.

Because you offer that one example of that 50 year old woman that has no job and is not homeless and not on government assistance and that is supposed to prove your entire premise.

I personally don't believe your example, but that is neither here nor there.

Not one liberal has rebutted the fact that only 2.2% of American workers are paid minimum wage, of which the vast majority is teenagers and food servers. The myth that adults are forced to raise a family on minimum wage is bullshit. I personally know illegal immigrants, I work with them, that have several children and make more than minimum wage washing dishes.

Real world experience disproves the false narrative that you so desperately cling to.

Your illegal friend and his kids are why so many Americans are underpaid and can't find jobs today. I have a friend who started working in construction in 1976, making $15.00 an hour, thanks to your illegals, he's making that same pay today, mostly fixing the mistakes the illegals have made. You've called me a liar, I call you a traitor to your country and your people. Don't bother answer, I've ignored you.

I wholly agree. I am in favor of enforcing immigration laws, and believe that not doing so hurts everyone. Illegal immigration has only artificially lowered wages that would have otherwise risen with inflation. I didn't employ these people, but I certainly don't hate or despise them--I work beside them and care about them. You really are an asshole.

 

[Google]

Ah, but more than 75% of MW workers are adults.

As for my son, I imagine most of them would be in the same situation. He has a friend who is "normal" and graduated from the local community college and is working as a security guard nearly 80 hours a week and can't afford his own apartment.
Things today are not like they were when we graduated from highschool.

80 hours/week? Let's see 40 hrs at minimum wage is $290. another 40 hours at 1.5 times minimum wage is $335. That's $725/week and he can't afford an apartment? WTF not?

He just left his girlfriend. She kept the apartment, now he has to come up with first/last and deposit all over again in a place were a low cost apartment is about $700 a month not including utilities and he has to pay his rent where he's living at the time.

I think you are completely full of shit.

 

[flacaltenn]

They don't, they can't, I've been saying that for years, more than 75% of those working for minimum wage are adults and minimum wage currently has the lowest spending power in history. In the richest country in the world, the poorest worker should make a living wage.

What is a 'living wage'? Given that if a business increases what it pays its workers, it generally has to increase the price to its customers... therefore the cost of living goes up, which means the 'living wage' is no longer a 'living wage' which means it needs to be increased... which leads to increased prices to customers, which leads to an increase in the cost of living, which leads to an increase in the 'living wage', which leads to.... I think you get where I'm going with this. There is no simple answer... and people really should recognize that and stop expecting simple answers.

He was not suggesting that there is a simple answer, nor asking for someone to offer one, so I don't know what you're talking about. It was a simple observation on the fact that minimum wage is not enough to live off of with a full work week. Deal with it.


Also, and this is addressed to the whole thread, it is so absurd to say 'get an education.' Somebody HAS to work those jobs, otherwise those business couldn't exist. Someone has to be the ditchdiggers of society. They can't all get an education, and become rich, otherwise everybody would be rich, which is impossible ... there is only so much money in the system at any given time, and those with most of it don't plan on letting go of it. At best, everyone could be middle class, which is the logically absurd extreme of republican thought when it is mentioned that someone should just get a job or an education, because if everyone did this and somehow succeeded, everyone would have the same amount of money (as a hypothetical projection in a hypothetical reality). Yet, they do not realize this. Bringing it back to personal choice and responsibility without considering the context is logically fallacious therefore as demonstrated by its logical extreme.

Now this is an interesting reply.. "Somebody's gotta dig the ditch" !

Maybe not.. Do we NEED checkers and baggers? Maybe not. If the labor cost is too high, we know how to automate checkout -- could even have friendly robotic baggers at a certain cost.. Same for ditch digging. So stay in school...

<< I looked like a fool in Holland not speaking the language when I grocery shopped and stood there like a dummy waiting for the clerk to bag my groceries. Their generous "min wage" completely destroyed the bagger job there and folks are happy to bag their own>>

The other interesting misconception is my perennial favorite. THere is just so much money and fame and it's being held hostage by the "rich" and "famous".

They can't all get an education, and become rich, otherwise everybody would be rich, which is impossible ... there is only so much money in the system at any given time, and those with most of it don't plan on letting go of it.

My feeling is LET'S TRY IT AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS . Partly because I know economies are not fixed pies to be divvied up -- but also because if we DON'T do it --America is gonna fail... Automation and global competition is gonna eat us alive..
We will still need a service sector, we will still need some lower skilled jobs. But the BULK of prosperity is gonna come from having a HIGHLY EDUCATED, HIGHLY FLEXIBLE job force. And this view of competition for jobs "at the bottom" isn't even gonna exist..

 

[Google]

Minimum wage workers tend to be young. Although workers under age 25 represented only about one-fifth of hourly-paid workers, they made up about half of those paid the Federal minimum wage or less. Among employed teenagers paid by the hour, about 23 percent earned the minimum wage or less, compared with about 3 percent of workers age 25 and over. (See table 1 and table 7.)

Characteristics of Minimum Wage Workers: 2011

 

[newpolitics]

What is a 'living wage'? Given that if a business increases what it pays its workers, it generally has to increase the price to its customers... therefore the cost of living goes up, which means the 'living wage' is no longer a 'living wage' which means it needs to be increased... which leads to increased prices to customers, which leads to an increase in the cost of living, which leads to an increase in the 'living wage', which leads to.... I think you get where I'm going with this. There is no simple answer... and people really should recognize that and stop expecting simple answers.

He was not suggesting that there is a simple answer, nor asking for someone to offer one, so I don't know what you're talking about. It was a simple observation on the fact that minimum wage is not enough to live off of with a full work week. Deal with it.


Also, and this is addressed to the whole thread, it is so absurd to say 'get an education.' Somebody HAS to work those jobs, otherwise those business couldn't exist. Someone has to be the ditchdiggers of society. They can't all get an education, and become rich, otherwise everybody would be rich, which is impossible ... there is only so much money in the system at any given time, and those with most of it don't plan on letting go of it. At best, everyone could be middle class, which is the logically absurd extreme of republican thought when it is mentioned that someone should just get a job or an education, because if everyone did this and somehow succeeded, everyone would have the same amount of money (as a hypothetical projection in a hypothetical reality). Yet, they do not realize this. Bringing it back to personal choice and responsibility without considering the context is logically fallacious therefore as demonstrated by its logical extreme.

You're right about someone needing to work those minimum-wage jobs. Where your wrong is in your obvious assumption about who that "someone" is. Minimum-wage jobs are intended to be entry-level, foot-in-the-door positions for people just entering the job market, or re-entering after a long absence. They are not intended to be filled by older people with families to support.

And there will ALWAYS be people who are just entering the job market. You seem to have some sort of notion that it's ever going to be possible for EVERYONE in the working world to ALL have too much education and experience for entry-level, ALL AT ONCE. That's not how it works. The one certain thing in the world is change. People will get older; people will die; new people will be born.

Also, one of the primary purposes of a minimum-wage, entry-level jobs is SUPPOSED to be to teach young people how much it sucks to be poor and unskilled, so they'll be motivated to improve their lot in life.

There is no purpose for minimum wage jobs. I agree they are good jobs for young people to start, and incidentally may teach them to never want to work that job again once they leave, but that is not the explicit or implicit purpose of those jobs. There is no mission statement for minimum-wage jobs stating "to kick your ass so you never want to do this again." They simply exist. It is very sad to hear or see someone who works a minimum-wage job who has a family, but at that point, it is too late. You are stuck. Perhaps they made a bad decision to have kids without the resources, but whats done is done. Someone with a family and with no GED, even if it is free, makes getting a GED out of the question because the opportunity cost for the time needed to go to class is too expensive given what could be made working instead. it becomes a desperate scramble to work as many jobs as possible. That's a miserable existence. If we are talking about minorities, Compound that with institutional racism, sexism, and other societal barriers to upward mobility, and you have one painful, stressful existence, day after day, and the feeling that you are truly at the bottom of the rung. That is depressing and I imagine, completely hopeless. Then you have the republican narrative simply telling you its your fault... who cares? Whats the difference at that point?

 

[Texanmike]

Some people are so foolish when they talk about minimum wage, wages, living wages and the price and compensation of and for labor. Everyone looks at the seen. People making minimum wage cannot survive on a 40 hour work week. No kidding? They can survive... they just won't survive with the same standard of living that you and I expect. But lets look a little further at the idea that we should raise minimum wage. Since nobody answers the simple question... what should minimum wage be... I will answer it for you. I'm going to double minimum wage. That's right. $15/hr! Immediately. If you were paying someone $7.50 or $8 or even $10... I'm going to raise it right now. $15.

I know, I know... that is unrealistic. But if raising minimum wage a little is good, then raising minimum wage a lot must surely be better. So now in this wonderful little dream world we've created lets examine the seen... and the unseen effects of this. We'll start with the seen.

The seen is that a guy making $7.50/hr is now making $15. He will notice a temporary increase in his purchasing power, if he keeps his job. Of course since businesses see labor just like any other commodity this will cause a lot of people to lose their jobs. You go get your oil changed at jiffy lube because it is something that is worth outsourcing. It is worth your time, money and probably clothing to have your oil changed at $40. Is it worth it at $80? At $80 it is not worth it for a lot of people to get their oil changed by somebody, instead of outsourcing that task there are a lot of people who will take on that task themselves. Companies see labor in much the same way. They will either have to increase revenues, double up tasks and fire people or go out of business. Tell me which one of those situations benefits minimum wage workers? Of course that's the seen... now lets look at what you don't see:

You have screwed everyone making between minimum wage (around $7.35/hr) and $15/hr (actually probably a little more than

that.

What will happen is that the cost of living will rise. Not only will this effect everyone who was making minimum wage but now everyone

who was making say $15/hr (twice what minimum wage was and certainly a "living wage" will now be making minimum wage. Minimum wage will

always be minimum wage. It will never be enough to sustain yourself if you work 40 hours a week, that's not the way it works. Not only

will you have screwed those who were making $15/hr you will have screwed anyone who was planning on getting that raise. Lets look at what happens in that situation. Now you take everyone who was making... lets say $15/hr. Say they were expecting a $1/hr raise. Guess what... its not happening. That money has to go to pay for the increase of the wage from min wage to $15/hr. The same for the guy who was making $16/hr and $17 and probably everybody up to $25 or $30. Congratulations. You have just increased the number of poor people in this country by a very specific number. It is the number of all people earning between $7.50 and $15/hr. The purchasing power of the lowest person making minimum wage will not change. Sure, you will see a spike initially but do you think that's going to last? But lets not look at the unseen...

If you want to fix the economy... get rid of minimum wage. Allow labor to be traded on the free market instead of farm style subsidies. That will result in the healthiest economy. Instead of trying to artificially raise the lowest possible price for labor you should allow the price for labor to be set by the seller of the labor. Name a time in history when long term price fixing has worked out int his world. I'll be waiting for that answer.

Mike

edit: And just for clarity. This works no matter how much or little you raise minimum wage. The less you raise minimum wage the fewer people you trap with the lowest possible buying power. In fact if you don't raise minimum wage at all you won't trap any more of the population at the lowest buying power. Imagine if the government set a minimum price on goods and services. While Jiffy Lube might make more money per oil change they would make less overall if they are making a profit on oil changes right now because if the government required that the minimum price for an oil change was $60 then fewer people would opt to have their oil changed.

 

[SeaChange]

I think everyone should start out making minimum wage. This will give them a frame of reference as they make decisions for their future.

A woman customer, the other day, was heatedly complaining that her 24 year old son had moved back home, because he can't find a job and has had jobs but been fired, and he told her he refused to work for minimun wage, or at a fast food place, for low wages. I asked if he had any skills or higher learning and she said...no. lol.

Doesn't she know that if the kid knows he can move back home, he WILL! He will let himself be fired because it is easier to live with mommy and daddy. They, fail their son, by not making him responsible for his own livelihood.

It's pretty easy to live on min. wage. Just get some roommates, drop the cell phone and other "necessities" and look for a job that you will keep, because you have to share the rent. It just might make you want to go to a trade school or something else to improve your stature in life.

I agree with the premise of this post but I don't think it's so easy.

In New York, for example, I'm not sure how anyone lives on minimum wage.

I'm not sure why anyone lives in New York, but one assumes they do it the same way poor people everywhere do it: by getting a lot of annoying roommates and doing without everything they can possibly live without.

It doesn't really work that way....

 

[The Rabbi]

Bingo.
The Left rears its ugly head. There is only so much wealth in the world. Wealth is finite and fixed. You can't give someone more without someone else having less. The rich didnt earn money, they were just lucky, in the right place at the right time.
It would be funny if this weren't the world view that this administration takes.

 

[The Rabbi]

He was not suggesting that there is a simple answer, nor asking for someone to offer one, so I don't know what you're talking about. It was a simple observation on the fact that minimum wage is not enough to live off of with a full work week. Deal with it.


Also, and this is addressed to the whole thread, it is so absurd to say 'get an education.' Somebody HAS to work those jobs, otherwise those business couldn't exist. Someone has to be the ditchdiggers of society. They can't all get an education, and become rich, otherwise everybody would be rich, which is impossible ... there is only so much money in the system at any given time, and those with most of it don't plan on letting go of it. At best, everyone could be middle class, which is the logically absurd extreme of republican thought when it is mentioned that someone should just get a job or an education, because if everyone did this and somehow succeeded, everyone would have the same amount of money (as a hypothetical projection in a hypothetical reality). Yet, they do not realize this. Bringing it back to personal choice and responsibility without considering the context is logically fallacious therefore as demonstrated by its logical extreme.

You're right about someone needing to work those minimum-wage jobs. Where your wrong is in your obvious assumption about who that "someone" is. Minimum-wage jobs are intended to be entry-level, foot-in-the-door positions for people just entering the job market, or re-entering after a long absence. They are not intended to be filled by older people with families to support.

And there will ALWAYS be people who are just entering the job market. You seem to have some sort of notion that it's ever going to be possible for EVERYONE in the working world to ALL have too much education and experience for entry-level, ALL AT ONCE. That's not how it works. The one certain thing in the world is change. People will get older; people will die; new people will be born.

Also, one of the primary purposes of a minimum-wage, entry-level jobs is SUPPOSED to be to teach young people how much it sucks to be poor and unskilled, so they'll be motivated to improve their lot in life.

There is no purpose for minimum wage jobs. I agree they are good jobs for young people to start, and incidentally may teach them to never want to work that job again once they leave, but that is not the explicit or implicit purpose of those jobs. There is no mission statement for minimum-wage jobs stating "to kick your ass so you never want to do this again." They simply exist. It is very sad to hear or see someone who works a minimum-wage job who has a family, but at that point, it is too late. You are stuck. Perhaps they made a bad decision to have kids without the resources, but whats done is done. Someone with a family and with no GED, even if it is free, makes getting a GED out of the question because the opportunity cost for the time needed to go to class is too expensive given what could be made working instead. it becomes a desperate scramble to work as many jobs as possible. That's a miserable existence. If we are talking about minorities, Compound that with institutional racism, sexism, and other societal barriers to upward mobility, and you have one painful, stressful existence, day after day, and the feeling that you are truly at the bottom of the rung. That is depressing and I imagine, completely hopeless. Then you have the republican narrative simply telling you its your fault... who cares? Whats the difference at that point?

Of course there is a purpose of min wage jobs. Namely to do min wage work. What? You thought jobs were a form of charity?
Few people spend years at min wage. Actually no one does. People getting those jobs eventually develop skills that make them more valuable, increasing their wage.
Have you ever worked a day in your life?

 

[Stephanie]

The callous liberal answer is to double the min wage, throwing half the people out of work, putting them on welfare and blaming Bush.

The republican answer is to eliminate the minimum wage completely, force people to work for 3$ an hour sending the former working class into mass poverty, on welfare, and blaming Obama.

are you an adult? if so, scary

 

[Claudette]

---(They don't they just exist after 3 years they become zombies)----

Article> One of my clients recently reported getting a job at a fast-food restaurant. Since she's been unemployed and desperately looking for work for nearly a year, I was thrilled for her. She was very excited that she'll be making $7.50 an hour -– a whole quarter more than minimum wage.



After she left my office, I got out a calculator. I've never worked for minimum wage, so I didn't know exactly how much -- or how little -- money that is.



Assuming 80 hours per pay period, my client will be bringing home around $462 every two weeks. That's with no health insurance or retirement contributions.



If I brought home $924 a month, would I even be able to survive? I decided to find out.

read more How do people survive on minimum wage?- MSN Money

There's the first problem right there. People getting by on minwage jobs do not work 80 hours every 2 weeks. They work 80hrs every week. Minimum. I knew a guy, a Thai immigrant, who worked a day job, a night job, and a weekend job. So double that to over $1800/mo. Yeah, you can get by on that.
Second, the number of heads of households who work min wage jobs is miniscule. Holders of such jobs are typically married women returning to the workforce, teenagers, people living with others who are earning money.
Finally, very few people stay at min wage. As they develop skills and experience they increase their pay scales dramatically.
Of course if you increase the min wage you do away with jobs like that, and make it harder for people to get on the ladder. This is why black teen unemployment is over 40%.

Bingo.

Most people who start on mnimum don't stay on minimum wage for long. Usually After a month their pay goes up if they are good at the job. If they aren't good at the job they go out the door.

 

[Flaylo]

The "minimum wage" is too low, I wonder wtf they base it on. The bosses who insist on limiting minimum wage have no "maximum wage," they know that keeping the minimum wage as low as possible makes them richer.

 

[Stephanie]

The "minimum wage" is too low, I wonder wtf they base it on. The bosses who insist on limiting minimum wage have no "maximum wage," they know that keeping the minimum wage as low as possible makes them richer.

holy smokes