How do people survive on minimum wage?

[Againsheila]

BTW, GED is not free. It's like $150 for the test and that's not including any classes you take to study for it. Where do you live?

 

[Ernie S.]

They don't, they can't, I've been saying that for years, more than 75% of those working for minimum wage are adults and minimum wage currently has the lowest spending power in history. In the richest country in the world, the poorest worker should make a living wage.

What is a 'living wage'? Given that if a business increases what it pays its workers, it generally has to increase the price to its customers... therefore the cost of living goes up, which means the 'living wage' is no longer a 'living wage' which means it needs to be increased... which leads to increased prices to customers, which leads to an increase in the cost of living, which leads to an increase in the 'living wage', which leads to.... I think you get where I'm going with this. There is no simple answer... and people really should recognize that and stop expecting simple answers.

So, what is the complex answer?

The callous conservative answer is, "it's all about personal responsibility"; and that CG is a simple answer and a simple solution solved by saying or thinking, "I got mine, screw the rest of them".

There doesn't need to be a complex answer. Minimum wage, whether you agree with the concept or not is an entry level, bottom of the barrel wage for unskilled high school kids.
I started work in a machine shop for $1.25 in 1967. Did I want more money? Hell yes. Was I worth more money? Hell no. I had zero experience, no tools of my own. All I had was a good mechanical aptitude, but the guy that hired me had no knowledge of my potential.
After a couple of weeks, he saw a capable worker with some promise. I got a raise from a buck and a quarter, (that's $50 for a 40 hour week) to $2.00
2 months later, $4.00 and within my first year I was making six bucks.
Minimum wage workers have 3 choices. They can suck it up and be happy at $7.25/hour, show their ability to learn and prove to their employer that they are worth more money, or leave and further their education so they can qualify for a job in a more lucrative field. I ended up doing the latter 2. Hell yes I was unhappy making minimum wage, but I had to MAKE myself worth more.

 

[Google]

---(They don't they just exist after 3 years they become zombies)----

Article> One of my clients recently reported getting a job at a fast-food restaurant. Since she's been unemployed and desperately looking for work for nearly a year, I was thrilled for her. She was very excited that she'll be making $7.50 an hour -– a whole quarter more than minimum wage.



After she left my office, I got out a calculator. I've never worked for minimum wage, so I didn't know exactly how much -- or how little -- money that is.



Assuming 80 hours per pay period, my client will be bringing home around $462 every two weeks. That's with no health insurance or retirement contributions.



If I brought home $924 a month, would I even be able to survive? I decided to find out.

read more How do people survive on minimum wage?- MSN Money

I think everyone should start out making minimum wage. This will give them a frame of reference as they make decisions for their future.

A woman customer, the other day, was heatedly complaining that her 24 year old son had moved back home, because he can't find a job and has had jobs but been fired, and he told her he refused to work for minimun wage, or at a fast food place, for low wages. I asked if he had any skills or higher learning and she said...no. lol.

Doesn't she know that if the kid knows he can move back home, he WILL! He will let himself be fired because it is easier to live with mommy and daddy. They, fail their son, by not making him responsible for his own livelihood.

It's pretty easy to live on min. wage. Just get some roommates, drop the cell phone and other "necessities" and look for a job that you will keep, because you have to share the rent. It just might make you want to go to a trade school or something else to improve your stature in life.

My son is 27 years old, graduated with honors from a 2 year program at DeVry University. He's not yet found a job. He does live at home, but he's special needs (high functioning autism). Is it you opinion that I should put him out on the street simply because he can't find a job? He does get disability, a whopping $445 a month...yeah, that'll buy an apartment. Do you honestly believe being homeless is going to somehow get him a job?

I in no way want to insult your son, but he is not the norm. Liberals always use these examples to try to prove a point. Just like the adult with three kids trying to survive on minimum wage as the example that it needs to be raised when in reality of the 2.2% of American workers earning minimum wage less than 1% of that would actually fit into that narrative.

Now of all of the people in your son's situation what percentage would you say face the same difficulties as him? And I apologize, but you are the one that decided to interject him into this debate.

 

[buckeye45_73]

Keep in mind, conservatives not only want to get rid of the minimum wage, or at least not raise it, EVER,

they also want to get rid of the government benefits that go to the working poor.

Once again, more proof that the goal of conservative economics is to increase the gap between rich and poor.

Well I'd love to ditch the min wage, it's just controlled inflation.

BUT I dont want to get rid of all govt programs. I like programs like unemployment, WHY you ask? Because there is a time limit and you need to shit or get off the pot at some point. How can you not find a job in ten years? REALLY? you buy that?

Unemployment lasts for 10 years? Since when?

BTW, I know a woman who lost her job 3 years ago, she's over 50 and can't find a new job. She's even tried the fast food joints and all the restaurants around here. She doesn't exactly sit around on her butt as she volunteers at the local foodbank when she's not looking for work. She ended up having to move back in with her mother at HER age. The jobs aren't out there and the ones that are pay diddly squat and anybody who thinks otherwise is in the upper-classes and has never had to worry about where their next meal is coming from, EVER!!! IOW, they like the increasing gap between the rich and the poor because their income is increasing.

Uh there are tons of people on welfare for 10+ years. I like unemployment, because you cant do that. I know finding a job isnt easy, but most of these people should be able to find an entry level job to build work experience.

 

[Samson]

Keep in mind, conservatives not only want to get rid of the minimum wage, or at least not raise it, EVER,

they also want to get rid of the government benefits that go to the working poor.

Once again, more proof that the goal of conservative economics is to increase the gap between rich and poor.

Well I'd love to ditch the min wage, it's just controlled inflation.

BUT I dont want to get rid of all govt programs. I like programs like unemployment, WHY you ask? Because there is a time limit and you need to shit or get off the pot at some point. How can you not find a job in ten years? REALLY? you buy that?

Unemployment lasts for 10 years? Since when?

BTW, I know a woman who lost her job 3 years ago, she's over 50 and can't find a new job. She's even tried the fast food joints and all the restaurants around here. blah...blah....blah

30 millon Mexicans swim a river and hike through a dessert to find a job.

Maybe your friend should go to where jobs are rather than waiting "around there."

For christssakes, its not that complicated.

 

[flacaltenn]

BTW, GED is not free. It's like $150 for the test and that's not including any classes you take to study for it. Where do you live?

Let's do this one first... Everywhere I've lived there have been free GED tutoring available either thru LWVoters or the library system or the city.. I know this because I've tutored MANY GED students.. It's something I love to do.

Yeah -- the test costs something. It's gonna PAY a lot more than it costs -- whatever it is...

 

[Google]

Keep in mind, conservatives not only want to get rid of the minimum wage, or at least not raise it, EVER,

they also want to get rid of the government benefits that go to the working poor.

Once again, more proof that the goal of conservative economics is to increase the gap between rich and poor.

Well I'd love to ditch the min wage, it's just controlled inflation.

BUT I dont want to get rid of all govt programs. I like programs like unemployment, WHY you ask? Because there is a time limit and you need to shit or get off the pot at some point. How can you not find a job in ten years? REALLY? you buy that?

Unemployment lasts for 10 years? Since when?

BTW, I know a woman who lost her job 3 years ago, she's over 50 and can't find a new job. She's even tried the fast food joints and all the restaurants around here. She doesn't exactly sit around on her butt as she volunteers at the local foodbank when she's not looking for work. She ended up having to move back in with her mother at HER age. The jobs aren't out there and the ones that are pay diddly squat and anybody who thinks otherwise is in the upper-classes and has never had to worry about where their next meal is coming from, EVER!!! IOW, they like the increasing gap between the rich and the poor because their income is increasing.

BTW I know multiple people that exploit government assistance, namely food stamps, that make as much money as me and don't need it. I go to class with a guy that adviced me on how to get unemployment for the maximum amount of time, just fill out applications you don't have to accept the job

 

[Againsheila]

What is a 'living wage'? Given that if a business increases what it pays its workers, it generally has to increase the price to its customers... therefore the cost of living goes up, which means the 'living wage' is no longer a 'living wage' which means it needs to be increased... which leads to increased prices to customers, which leads to an increase in the cost of living, which leads to an increase in the 'living wage', which leads to.... I think you get where I'm going with this. There is no simple answer... and people really should recognize that and stop expecting simple answers.

So, what is the complex answer?

The callous conservative answer is, "it's all about personal responsibility"; and that CG is a simple answer and a simple solution solved by saying or thinking, "I got mine, screw the rest of them".

There doesn't need to be a complex answer. Minimum wage, whether you agree with the concept or not is an entry level, bottom of the barrel wage for unskilled high school kids.
I started work in a machine shop for $1.25 in 1967. Did I want more money? Hell yes. Was I worth more money? Hell no. I had zero experience, no tools of my own. All I had was a good mechanical aptitude, but the guy that hired me had no knowledge of my potential.
After a couple of weeks, he saw a capable worker with some promise. I got a raise from a buck and a quarter, (that's $50 for a 40 hour week) to $2.00
2 months later, $4.00 and within my first year I was making six bucks.
Minimum wage workers have 3 choices. They can suck it up and be happy at $7.25/hour, show their ability to learn and prove to their employer that they are worth more money, or leave and further their education so they can qualify for a job in a more lucrative field. I ended up doing the latter 2. Hell yes I was unhappy making minimum wage, but I had to MAKE myself worth more.

Guess what, in 1968 MW had the highest spending power in history, today it has the lowest. The machine shops have all shipped out to China and we are inundated with fast food restaurants. Now think about it, if you had to start over today, do you really believe it would be as simple as it was then?

 

[Againsheila]

I think everyone should start out making minimum wage. This will give them a frame of reference as they make decisions for their future.

A woman customer, the other day, was heatedly complaining that her 24 year old son had moved back home, because he can't find a job and has had jobs but been fired, and he told her he refused to work for minimun wage, or at a fast food place, for low wages. I asked if he had any skills or higher learning and she said...no. lol.

Doesn't she know that if the kid knows he can move back home, he WILL! He will let himself be fired because it is easier to live with mommy and daddy. They, fail their son, by not making him responsible for his own livelihood.

It's pretty easy to live on min. wage. Just get some roommates, drop the cell phone and other "necessities" and look for a job that you will keep, because you have to share the rent. It just might make you want to go to a trade school or something else to improve your stature in life.

My son is 27 years old, graduated with honors from a 2 year program at DeVry University. He's not yet found a job. He does live at home, but he's special needs (high functioning autism). Is it you opinion that I should put him out on the street simply because he can't find a job? He does get disability, a whopping $445 a month...yeah, that'll buy an apartment. Do you honestly believe being homeless is going to somehow get him a job?

I in no way want to insult your son, but he is not the norm. Liberals always use these examples to try to prove a point. Just like the adult with three kids trying to survive on minimum wage as the example that it needs to be raised when in reality of the 2.2% of American workers earning minimum wage less than 1% of that would actually fit into that narrative.

Now of all of the people in your son's situation what percentage would you say face the same difficulties as him? And I apologize, but you are the one that decided to interject him into this debate.

Ah, but more than 75% of MW workers are adults.

As for my son, I imagine most of them would be in the same situation. He has a friend who is "normal" and graduated from the local community college and is working as a security guard nearly 80 hours a week and can't afford his own apartment.
Things today are not like they were when we graduated from highschool.

 

[Againsheila]

Well I'd love to ditch the min wage, it's just controlled inflation.

BUT I dont want to get rid of all govt programs. I like programs like unemployment, WHY you ask? Because there is a time limit and you need to shit or get off the pot at some point. How can you not find a job in ten years? REALLY? you buy that?

Unemployment lasts for 10 years? Since when?

BTW, I know a woman who lost her job 3 years ago, she's over 50 and can't find a new job. She's even tried the fast food joints and all the restaurants around here. blah...blah....blah

30 millon Mexicans swim a river and hike through a dessert to find a job.

Maybe your friend should go to where jobs are rather than waiting "around there."

For christssakes, its not that complicated.

Where are the jobs?

 

[Againsheila]

Well I'd love to ditch the min wage, it's just controlled inflation.

BUT I dont want to get rid of all govt programs. I like programs like unemployment, WHY you ask? Because there is a time limit and you need to shit or get off the pot at some point. How can you not find a job in ten years? REALLY? you buy that?

Unemployment lasts for 10 years? Since when?

BTW, I know a woman who lost her job 3 years ago, she's over 50 and can't find a new job. She's even tried the fast food joints and all the restaurants around here. She doesn't exactly sit around on her butt as she volunteers at the local foodbank when she's not looking for work. She ended up having to move back in with her mother at HER age. The jobs aren't out there and the ones that are pay diddly squat and anybody who thinks otherwise is in the upper-classes and has never had to worry about where their next meal is coming from, EVER!!! IOW, they like the increasing gap between the rich and the poor because their income is increasing.

BTW I know multiple people that exploit government assistance, namely food stamps, that make as much money as me and don't need it. I go to class with a guy that adviced me on how to get unemployment for the maximum amount of time, just fill out applications you don't have to accept the job

I also know people who exploit government assistance...what does that have to do with a woman that is over 50 and can't find a job? BTW, she's not on ANY assistance right now other than the assistance she is getting from her family. Her unemployment ran out a long time ago. And more importantly, what does that have to do with raising the MW? There are a lot of people today who don't want charity, they want to work and they want to pay their own way, our country, our economy and our government has made that impossible for now.

 

[Cecilie1200]

My God, leftists are ALL about the excuses and negativity, aren't they? There's always some reason why they just CAN'T be expected to get their shit together, and it's all just hopeless.

Epic Life Fail.

 

[newpolitics]

They don't, they can't, I've been saying that for years, more than 75% of those working for minimum wage are adults and minimum wage currently has the lowest spending power in history. In the richest country in the world, the poorest worker should make a living wage.

What is a 'living wage'? Given that if a business increases what it pays its workers, it generally has to increase the price to its customers... therefore the cost of living goes up, which means the 'living wage' is no longer a 'living wage' which means it needs to be increased... which leads to increased prices to customers, which leads to an increase in the cost of living, which leads to an increase in the 'living wage', which leads to.... I think you get where I'm going with this. There is no simple answer... and people really should recognize that and stop expecting simple answers.

He was not suggesting that there is a simple answer, nor asking for someone to offer one, so I don't know what you're talking about. It was a simple observation on the fact that minimum wage is not enough to live off of with a full work week. Deal with it.


Also, and this is addressed to the whole thread, it is so absurd to say 'get an education.' Somebody HAS to work those jobs, otherwise those business couldn't exist. Someone has to be the ditchdiggers of society. They can't all get an education, and become rich, otherwise everybody would be rich, which is impossible ... there is only so much money in the system at any given time, and those with most of it don't plan on letting go of it. At best, everyone could be middle class, which is the logically absurd extreme of republican thought when it is mentioned that someone should just get a job or an education, because if everyone did this and somehow succeeded, everyone would have the same amount of money (as a hypothetical projection in a hypothetical reality). Yet, they do not realize this. Bringing it back to personal choice and responsibility without considering the context is logically fallacious therefore as demonstrated by its logical extreme.

 

[Samson]

Guess what, in 1968 MW had the highest spending power in history, today it has the lowest. The machine shops have all shipped out to China and we are inundated with fast food restaurants. Now think about it, if you had to start over today, do you really believe it would be as simple as it was then?

You act like people woke up yesterday and began wondering why it wasn't 1968.

Guess what, it hasn't been 1968 for a while.

In fact, even anyone in highschool today should be aware of the fact.

Asian's are immigrating to the USA faster than any other ethnic group, and taking better than minimum wage jobs. Why?



Because they are qualified.

They haven't been depending upon some false economy designed to simply increase their wage based on the volume of their whining.

 

[buckeye45_73]

Unemployment lasts for 10 years? Since when?

BTW, I know a woman who lost her job 3 years ago, she's over 50 and can't find a new job. She's even tried the fast food joints and all the restaurants around here. blah...blah....blah

30 millon Mexicans swim a river and hike through a dessert to find a job.

Maybe your friend should go to where jobs are rather than waiting "around there."

For christssakes, its not that complicated.

Where are the jobs?

Min Wage jobs are there. For real jobs you need a President that encourages businesses to thrive and not bitch everytime they make a buck.

 

[Google]

Unemployment lasts for 10 years? Since when?

BTW, I know a woman who lost her job 3 years ago, she's over 50 and can't find a new job. She's even tried the fast food joints and all the restaurants around here. She doesn't exactly sit around on her butt as she volunteers at the local foodbank when she's not looking for work. She ended up having to move back in with her mother at HER age. The jobs aren't out there and the ones that are pay diddly squat and anybody who thinks otherwise is in the upper-classes and has never had to worry about where their next meal is coming from, EVER!!! IOW, they like the increasing gap between the rich and the poor because their income is increasing.

BTW I know multiple people that exploit government assistance, namely food stamps, that make as much money as me and don't need it. I go to class with a guy that adviced me on how to get unemployment for the maximum amount of time, just fill out applications you don't have to accept the job

I also know people who exploit government assistance...what does that have to do with a woman that is over 50 and can't find a job? BTW, she's not on ANY assistance right now other than the assistance she is getting from her family. Her unemployment ran out a long time ago. And more importantly, what does that have to do with raising the MW? There are a lot of people today who don't want charity, they want to work and they want to pay their own way, our country, our economy and our government has made that impossible for now.

Because you offer that one example of that 50 year old woman that has no job and is not homeless and not on government assistance and that is supposed to prove your entire premise.

I personally don't believe your example, but that is neither here nor there.

Not one liberal has rebutted the fact that only 2.2% of American workers are paid minimum wage, of which the vast majority is teenagers and food servers. The myth that adults are forced to raise a family on minimum wage is bullshit. I personally know illegal immigrants, I work with them, that have several children and make more than minimum wage washing dishes.

Real world experience disproves the false narrative that you so desperately cling to.

 

[flacaltenn]

How are they going to pay for furthering their education on minimum wage when they can't even afford a place to live?

I've been thru this argument before.. GED education is FREE.. Community College starts at $200/semester (tuition, books, one/two classes). AND THAT is before you walk into financial aid..

And Like i said -- if we really cared about the people and made it LAW that min wage jobs must be coupled with continuing education, my guess is that employers would LEAP to making local scholarships, grants, deals with schools in the local area..

As for someone with 2 yrs at DeVry.. That's wonderful... Whatever the degree is in, there are 100s of specialized placement agencies across the country for every career. The legit ones don't charge the appliicant a penny... Be patient -- USE the agencies..

Where the hell did you find a community college that costs $200/semester??? Here, it's more than $200 a CLASS, and yeah, that's at the local community college.

Canada (Kan - ya - da -- I'm missing a tilda thingy) Community College a mile from where I lived in Cali -- Great School, I took courses there.

Overview | Page Not Found-Cañada College

They were charging $36 a credit when I had this argument before.. MOST classes are 3 credits. So -- that leaves books, snacks, gas, etc. Aint' gonna be quick -- but $200 will keep you going. A semester is 3 months? So it costs you about $70/mo..

Actually since I moved to Tenn, the Com Colleges cost a bit more here (of course, California has EVERYTHING on sale). So it might be $220 a class at most..

 

[Cecilie1200]

They don't, they can't, I've been saying that for years, more than 75% of those working for minimum wage are adults and minimum wage currently has the lowest spending power in history. In the richest country in the world, the poorest worker should make a living wage.

What is a 'living wage'? Given that if a business increases what it pays its workers, it generally has to increase the price to its customers... therefore the cost of living goes up, which means the 'living wage' is no longer a 'living wage' which means it needs to be increased... which leads to increased prices to customers, which leads to an increase in the cost of living, which leads to an increase in the 'living wage', which leads to.... I think you get where I'm going with this. There is no simple answer... and people really should recognize that and stop expecting simple answers.

He was not suggesting that there is a simple answer, nor asking for someone to offer one, so I don't know what you're talking about. It was a simple observation on the fact that minimum wage is not enough to live off of with a full work week. Deal with it.


Also, and this is addressed to the whole thread, it is so absurd to say 'get an education.' Somebody HAS to work those jobs, otherwise those business couldn't exist. Someone has to be the ditchdiggers of society. They can't all get an education, and become rich, otherwise everybody would be rich, which is impossible ... there is only so much money in the system at any given time, and those with most of it don't plan on letting go of it. At best, everyone could be middle class, which is the logically absurd extreme of republican thought when it is mentioned that someone should just get a job or an education, because if everyone did this and somehow succeeded, everyone would have the same amount of money (as a hypothetical projection in a hypothetical reality). Yet, they do not realize this. Bringing it back to personal choice and responsibility without considering the context is logically fallacious therefore as demonstrated by its logical extreme.

You're right about someone needing to work those minimum-wage jobs. Where your wrong is in your obvious assumption about who that "someone" is. Minimum-wage jobs are intended to be entry-level, foot-in-the-door positions for people just entering the job market, or re-entering after a long absence. They are not intended to be filled by older people with families to support.

And there will ALWAYS be people who are just entering the job market. You seem to have some sort of notion that it's ever going to be possible for EVERYONE in the working world to ALL have too much education and experience for entry-level, ALL AT ONCE. That's not how it works. The one certain thing in the world is change. People will get older; people will die; new people will be born.

Also, one of the primary purposes of a minimum-wage, entry-level jobs is SUPPOSED to be to teach young people how much it sucks to be poor and unskilled, so they'll be motivated to improve their lot in life.

 

[buckeye45_73]

Unemployment lasts for 10 years? Since when?

BTW, I know a woman who lost her job 3 years ago, she's over 50 and can't find a new job. She's even tried the fast food joints and all the restaurants around here. She doesn't exactly sit around on her butt as she volunteers at the local foodbank when she's not looking for work. She ended up having to move back in with her mother at HER age. The jobs aren't out there and the ones that are pay diddly squat and anybody who thinks otherwise is in the upper-classes and has never had to worry about where their next meal is coming from, EVER!!! IOW, they like the increasing gap between the rich and the poor because their income is increasing.

BTW I know multiple people that exploit government assistance, namely food stamps, that make as much money as me and don't need it. I go to class with a guy that adviced me on how to get unemployment for the maximum amount of time, just fill out applications you don't have to accept the job

I also know people who exploit government assistance...what does that have to do with a woman that is over 50 and can't find a job? BTW, she's not on ANY assistance right now other than the assistance she is getting from her family. Her unemployment ran out a long time ago. And more importantly, what does that have to do with raising the MW? There are a lot of people today who don't want charity, they want to work and they want to pay their own way, our country, our economy and our government has made that impossible for now.

Well you brought up the 50 year old. And it has nothing to do with the MW. I do believe people are proud, but you cant expect to be a household on MW. Guess what no matter what you put it at MW will still suck. If you bump it, then that rent they cant pay now, will go up and that hamburget at McDonalds goes up, so you dont really solve anything, just create inflation.

And guess what the people that did make more than the MW that are making MW after the bump will now be worse off, not better, because they're not going to get a raise to compensate for the inflation caused by the MW.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Keep in mind, conservatives not only want to get rid of the minimum wage, or at least not raise it, EVER,

they also want to get rid of the government benefits that go to the working poor.

Once again, more proof that the goal of conservative economics is to increase the gap between rich and poor.

It's not the job of govt to subsidize people's income. Get an education. There has always been a gap between the rich and poor and there always will be. Many people who have been poor increase their wealth as their life progresses. No one is guaranteed financial security in a free society. It's called personal responsibility.

No, it's called barbarity. It's the philosophy of the uncivilized, to let the poor fend for themselves.

Something you should read.

The Ants and the Grasshopper