How do you explain a ordered universe without a Creator?

[xband]

How do you explain a(n) ordered universe without a Creator?
'Ordered', a past tense form, implies 'by someone/something'.
The statement could be that we observe that the universe is orderly. That allows for awaiting further information that would indicate if there is a 'why'.

I think you can certainly construe some mixed up and confusing semantics here. When scientists use the term "ordered universe" they simply mean the parameters of our physical universe are arranged and in order. "If there is a why" is an illogical non sequitur. Of course there is a why, whether we've discovered it or not. Throwing up your hands and saying maybe there is not a reason why is no different than throwing up your hands and proclaiming God did it. Science can do nothing with a conclusion of faith.

Now... Imagine you have a handful of dice.. Let's say you have 40 or so... You throw the dice just once and every dice lands on 7. Logic tells us there has to be some explanation other than random chance because the odds are too phenomenal. Even if only half the dice were 7s it would be incredibly impossible odds. So we must consider something other than random chance explains this. Perhaps you actually had billions of throws and one happened to result this way? That's the multiverse theory. Another theory is, something is in control of the dice that you aren't aware of physically. Perhaps something intervened in the throw and made the dice all land on 7? This is intelligent design theory. What we know for certain is, all the dice landed on 7 and random chance can't explain that.

I know what parameters are in a missile radar and perform a full set of parameters in one minute when it was supposed to take one hour. Parameters is like playing the piano that I was pretty good at.

 

[Boss]

I know what parameters are in a missile radar and perform a full set of parameters in one minute when it was supposed to take one hour. Parameters is like playing the piano that I was pretty good at.

Parameters in a radar system or piano are set and not random values. If they were random values, you couldn't have radar or play a piano. If the parameters of the universe were random and not ordered, you couldn't have physics. Mathematics would make no sense... 1+1 might equal 2 or 92... we would never know. BUT... because we live in an ordered universe, we do know, math is predictable, physics does work.

 

[xband]

I know what parameters are in a missile radar and perform a full set of parameters in one minute when it was supposed to take one hour. Parameters is like playing the piano that I was pretty good at.

Parameters in a radar system or piano are set and not random values. If they were random values, you couldn't have radar or play a piano. If the parameters of the universe were random and not ordered, you couldn't have physics. Mathematics would make no sense... 1+1 might equal 2 or 92... we would never know. BUT... because we live in an ordered universe, we do know, math is predictable, physics does work.

Play it in E minor, B minor or A minor. Minor chords give a soulful effect. : )

 

[xband]

I know what parameters are in a missile radar and perform a full set of parameters in one minute when it was supposed to take one hour. Parameters is like playing the piano that I was pretty good at.

Parameters in a radar system or piano are set and not random values. If they were random values, you couldn't have radar or play a piano. If the parameters of the universe were random and not ordered, you couldn't have physics. Mathematics would make no sense... 1+1 might equal 2 or 92... we would never know. BUT... because we live in an ordered universe, we do know, math is predictable, physics does work.

Play it in E minor, B minor or A minor. Minor chords give a mournful effect. : )

 

[there4eyeM]

'How' and 'why' are not the same thing.

 

[xband]

Evard Geig Prelude in A minor that I mastered when 14 years old.

 

[xband]

Harmonics both available in music and radar. However, harmonics in radar are called side bands.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Simple question, really. Why do so many people have a problem with it? Think about it. Order cannot come from chaos. At least not in this universe. Every bit of scientific knowledge we possess says it just can't happen. The universe is extremely ordered. It also contains vast amounts of information. Information has one source. Intelligence. Earthly intelligence is also the result of information. Can you say catch 22? This proves that information has a source that is outside this universe. What is this source? I believe that it is God. Can you come up with any other explanation?

I'm open to the possibility of a God....

Which God are you talking about?

The inference here is that you refer to The God of Abraham, as defined in The Torah, The New Testament and The Qur'an, but do you really think that the three popular ancient Arab stories on the subject are really the last word on such a being?

Step one in any religious conversation today is to define the God(s) up for discussion.

 

[zaangalewa]

xband
Post scriptum:

The justice of the world brings us death - but the justice of god brings us back into life.

 

[zaangalewa]

Evard Geig Prelude in A minor that I mastered when 14 years old.

This one?

 

[BreezeWood]

An ordered Universe violates the Third Law of Thermodynamics. Entropy demands that order always falls into disorder. When I told that to a Physicist she said there are pockets of order in disorder which made no sense to me.

- which made no sense to me.


why not , and further why would one state be more plentiful than the other ... it is most likely over time an equal balance.

that's not to say there is a creative order to the universe such as a hospitable Atmosphere throughout enabling unimpeded exploration one might expect from a creator.

You are the third now who explains he likes not the way how I express what I think and feel in times of multimedia.

if it did not slow down the internet no one would care, it's not personal ... and is not effective when you do it for every post and are not relevant to the discussion.

.

no comment

Prove me wrong.

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Prove me wrong.

xband: An ordered Universe violates the Third Law of Thermodynamics ... Entropy demands that order always falls into disorder.


you use order in your own statement ...


Earth is unique, were its environment universal throughout the universe that would indicate an intelligent design otherwise the present order may simply prove to be a random coincidence.

.

 

[there4eyeM]

Step number one should be realizing that for 'God' to be 'God', definition is not possible. It should be realized that any revelation one might have that lead to belief is personal, intimate, and exclusive to the person. This means all religions are at most nebulous guides, at worst dangerous deceptions.
Humanity needs to grow up and out of this father complex concept of an impossible image of deity.

 

[Boss]

Earth is unique, were its environment universal throughout the universe that would indicate an intelligent design otherwise the present order may simply prove to be a random coincidence.

Nonsense. Intelligent design doesn't require any such thing. The laws and principles of physics are the same throughout the universe. Earth is unique as far as we currently know but we've not even scratched the surface of exploring our universe so we have no idea how unique Earth is in relation. You also seem to presume to know more than Spiritual Nature with regard to where and when life is created... there might be very valid spiritual reasons life is not on every planet and every planet is not conducive to life as we know it. You're not God so you can't make that presumption.

 

[LuckyDuck01!]

Orderly universe?
Hmmm. Supernovas destroying solar systems, black holes swallowing planets and stars, galaxies smashing into one another, asteroid and meteor strikes, causing extinctions, random shifting tectonic plates which cause massive earthquakes, sporadic tornadoes, hurricanes, tsunamis, droughts, heat waves, wildfires.
There's nothing orderly about this universe.

Gravitational constant. Cosmological constant. Plank's constant. Faraday constant. Boltzmann constant. Loschmidt constant. Couloumb's constant. Josephson constant. vonKlitzing constant. Fermi coupling constant. Rydberg constant. Madelung constant. Electric constant. Magnetic constant. Wein displacement law constant. Sackur-Tetrode constant. Gas constant. Electrical resistivity. Heat capacity. Fine-structure constant. Elementary charge. Speed of Light. Proton-to-electron mass ratio. Proton mass. Electron mass. Classical electron radius. Bohr radius. Yawaka couplings. Bohr magneton. Nuclear magneton. Efimov factor. ...and about 20 more physical constants. (we won't even get into the myriad of quantum constants)

So... yeah... an ordered universe.

What your ignorant and uneducated ass is talking about is a "serene" universe. We don't even live on a serene planet. But the physics of our universe is very much ordered and it enables us to have physics, to study our universe in some kind of meaningful way. So you can continue to be an ignorant butt munch who demonstrates his neanderthal stupidity by making incredibly simple-minded comments like you did, or you can accept the fact that our universe is very much an ordered universe in which numerous constants exist which you have no way of explaining.

Furthermore, every scientist agrees we have an ordered universe. You will find no credible scientist who supports your viewpoint that we don't. They may have various opinions and theories on our ordered universe but there is no doubt we have an ordered universe.

Aside from you being an insulting a**hole to those who gives their own opinion, the universe as a whole still doesn't need an invisible "fairy" to work it.

 

[BreezeWood]

Earth is unique, were its environment universal throughout the universe that would indicate an intelligent design otherwise the present order may simply prove to be a random coincidence.

Nonsense. Intelligent design doesn't require any such thing. The laws and principles of physics are the same throughout the universe. Earth is unique as far as we currently know but we've not even scratched the surface of exploring our universe so we have no idea how unique Earth is in relation. You also seem to presume to know more than Spiritual Nature with regard to where and when life is created... there might be very valid spiritual reasons life is not on every planet and every planet is not conducive to life as we know it. You're not God so you can't make that presumption.

.

Earth is unique as far as we currently know but we've not even scratched the surface of exploring our universe

that's my point, we are not able to set our sails and venture out - the universe is not our atmosphere.

Columbus and crew did not live in a capsule with caned oxygen, lose bone density suffer decreased muscle mass ... an intelligent design for Earthlings beyond Earth does not exist, it's not our universe.


if ours, the confined Earth is intelligently designed we should not need to venture far by example to find our maker.

.

 

[wildman864]

Simple question, really. Why do so many people have a problem with it? Think about it. Order cannot come from chaos. At least not in this universe. Every bit of scientific knowledge we possess says it just can't happen. The universe is extremely ordered. It also contains vast amounts of information. Information has one source. Intelligence. Earthly intelligence is also the result of information. Can you say catch 22? This proves that information has a source that is outside this universe. What is this source? I believe that it is God. Can you come up with any other explanation?

Sorry but the whole post is based on a false premise. "Order cannot come from chaos." Totally wrong.

 

[Boss]

Aside from you being an insulting a**hole to those who gives their own opinion, the universe as a whole still doesn't need an invisible "fairy" to work it.

You're right, the universe doesn't need an invisible fairy to run it... so why is that what you believe in?

You see... YOU believe in invisible fairies which created a physical universe from nothing and, by fairy magic, turned it into something that enabled life to magically poof into existence. I believe in Spiritual Nature, a driving force which created physical nature and everything in it. There is nothing magical about it, it's completely natural... spiritually.

It doesn't have to "work" anything, it designed a system that is self-sufficient and works itself. The problem is, whenever you dismiss Spiritual Nature, you are left with no rational explanation for the universe.... other than fairies.

 

[zaangalewa]

Aside from you being an insulting a**hole to those who gives their own opinion, the universe as a whole still doesn't need an invisible "fairy" to work it.

You're right, the universe doesn't need an invisible fairy to run it...

¿Not? So why exists something? It makes no sense that someting is existing - except maybe we are the nigthmare of an invisible fairy who dreams us because god liked to create us in this way.

 

[Boss]

¿Not? So why exists something? It makes no sense that someting is existing - except maybe we are the nigthmare of an invisible fairy who dreams us because god liked to create us in this way.

I stopped trying to figure out what you're saying a couple of pages ago. I'm not sure why you're still posting when no one is responding to you... and why do you think we need to see your videos? The videos are not making any more sense than you are.

I don't know about a deity god or whether one exists. All I know is that physical nature can't have created itself because that's a paradox in logic. Now we can call whatever that thing is by any name we choose, it just so happens that we chose "spiritual nature" to define it. Apparently, that angers some anti-Christian zealots and conjures up images of invisible fairies and such. I can't help that.

 

[zaangalewa]

Simple question, really. Why do so many people have a problem with it? Think about it. Order cannot come from chaos. At least not in this universe. Every bit of scientific knowledge we possess says it just can't happen. The universe is extremely ordered. It also contains vast amounts of information. Information has one source. Intelligence. Earthly intelligence is also the result of information. Can you say catch 22? This proves that information has a source that is outside this universe. What is this source? I believe that it is God. Can you come up with any other explanation?

Sorry but the whole post is based on a false premise. "Order cannot come from chaos." Totally wrong.

Nothing was - god created chaos - out of the chaos came the light of love before time was born.