How is austerity doing in Europe

[TheGreatGatsby]

Increasingly. impartial sources close to the subject have become more and more and more pessimistic

You're a cog at best.

 

[itfitzme]

Is austerity working in Europe? Exactly what does that mean?

I just returned from a 2 month hike of the 800 kilometer Camino de Santiago across northern Spain. You see lots of empty buildings where construction left them only halfway completed, and in industrial areas factories that are not producing.

So, they looked at their neighbors in the north and across the Atlantic and borrowed to bring their level of living up to what they measured as successful or good, instead of realizing that perhaps what they had was good to begin with. The Spanish do not want to give up their siesta, but those nations that are producing and lending the money want Spain to do exactly that and start contributing during daylight hours.

So, while I was there, you had demonstrations in Madrid and signs here and there against cuts in this or that program. Yet, they want that new Iphone as well, or this or that car...and someone else to pay for it. This is just one example. The same situation is unfolding in Greece and Italy, and even to a lesser degree in Sweden where I currently reside.

So, how is austerity working in Europe? People are having to face no longer being able to live on the backs of others and not having to pay for it. There is complaining. Yet, are they mad enough to do something about it? I haven't seen that.

People are falling into an acceptance of this new direction. Is it because they know that, unlike decades before, a Turkish, Morroccan, or Pakistani is at the door banging to get in to not only work...but actually produce? I think that is one part of it. I think the other part of it is that so many of these migrants are quickly becoming the new wealth in these countries, and they tend to be so much more conscious of how to build and maintain wealth, and thus not favor government programs that diminish that, or, what we would normally and mistakenly call conservative economic principles. They are helping to further push the change of Europe in a new direction.

While Europe is beginning to shift in a direction that favors cuts in government programs and austerity, the US is going that opposite direction. It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the years to come.

So austerity isn't working.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

It's funny that these politicians embezzled all this money and then they want to blame the solution to get back to business as usual. Actually, that's not funny. That's what they're supposed to do if they can get away with it. What's funny is the lemmings buying their propaganda.

 

[Rshermr]

Ah. So the government stole the money/ The gov officials are getting rich. The workers are loosing their shorts. So far so good.
So, how are the wealthy doing in those countries??? Stats say damned well, thank you. Wealthy get wealthier. Middle class and poor pay for it. Sounds like a great plan.
So, you seem to be neutral??? Or just philosophical????

 

[Rshermr]

He has appointed himself a delusional role as defender of the daddy state.

Well, you have to admit, there are few things that you can be absolutely confident are completely true. So ed's posting is ONE of those very few things. When you see him posting on this board, you can be sure it is nonsense. Kind of a comforting thing.

Like death and taxes?

Yeah, but ed saying something really stupid is more certain than death.

 

[Rshermr]

Increasingly. impartial sources close to the subject have become more and more and more pessimistic

You're a cog at best.

So you agree??? Disagree???? Or are just being philosophical??
You think I am a cog??? Should I worry??? Are you a drive gear???

 

[itfitzme]

Increasingly. impartial sources close to the subject have become more and more and more pessimistic

You're a cog at best.

So you agree??? Disagree???? Or are just being philosophical??
You think I am a cog??? Should I worry??? Are you a drive gear???

His posts are to inspecific to be clear. They could imply a couple of things, at least.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

It's funny that these politicians embezzled all this money and then they want to blame the solution to get back to business as usual. Actually, that's not funny. That's what they're supposed to do if they can get away with it. What's funny is the lemmings buying their propaganda.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Is austerity working in Europe? Exactly what does that mean?

I just returned from a 2 month hike of the 800 kilometer Camino de Santiago across northern Spain. You see lots of empty buildings where construction left them only halfway completed, and in industrial areas factories that are not producing.

So, they looked at their neighbors in the north and across the Atlantic and borrowed to bring their level of living up to what they measured as successful or good, instead of realizing that perhaps what they had was good to begin with. The Spanish do not want to give up their siesta, but those nations that are producing and lending the money want Spain to do exactly that and start contributing during daylight hours.

So, while I was there, you had demonstrations in Madrid and signs here and there against cuts in this or that program. Yet, they want that new Iphone as well, or this or that car...and someone else to pay for it. This is just one example. The same situation is unfolding in Greece and Italy, and even to a lesser degree in Sweden where I currently reside.

So, how is austerity working in Europe? People are having to face no longer being able to live on the backs of others and not having to pay for it. There is complaining. Yet, are they mad enough to do something about it? I haven't seen that.

People are falling into an acceptance of this new direction. Is it because they know that, unlike decades before, a Turkish, Morroccan, or Pakistani is at the door banging to get in to not only work...but actually produce? I think that is one part of it. I think the other part of it is that so many of these migrants are quickly becoming the new wealth in these countries, and they tend to be so much more conscious of how to build and maintain wealth, and thus not favor government programs that diminish that, or, what we would normally and mistakenly call conservative economic principles. They are helping to further push the change of Europe in a new direction.

While Europe is beginning to shift in a direction that favors cuts in government programs and austerity, the US is going that opposite direction. It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the years to come.

So austerity isn't working.

austerity is a tiny aspect of capitalism. What you want to think about is whether capitalism works better than socialism. Do you know that when China switched to capitalism it immediately eliminated 40% of world poverty? What does that tell you?

 

[Rshermr]

You're a cog at best.

So you agree??? Disagree???? Or are just being philosophical??
You think I am a cog??? Should I worry??? Are you a drive gear???

His posts are to inspecific to be clear. They could imply a couple of things, at least.

But then, there is this other voice. The one attached to the site troll. Ed the idiot. Never makes any sense, just keeps on posting dogma. Needs to get back on his meds. There are meds for being a congenital idiot, are there not???

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

So you agree??? Disagree???? Or are just being philosophical??
You think I am a cog??? Should I worry??? Are you a drive gear???

His posts are to inspecific to be clear. They could imply a couple of things, at least.

But then, there is this other voice. The one attached to the site troll. Ed the idiot. Never makes any sense, just keeps on posting dogma. Needs to get back on his meds. There are meds for being a congenital idiot, are there not???

ad hominem from typical liberal without IQ for substance

 

[Rshermr]

And the con tool proves my point, AGAIN.

 

[Rshermr]

Is austerity working in Europe? Exactly what does that mean?

I just returned from a 2 month hike of the 800 kilometer Camino de Santiago across northern Spain. You see lots of empty buildings where construction left them only halfway completed, and in industrial areas factories that are not producing.

So, they looked at their neighbors in the north and across the Atlantic and borrowed to bring their level of living up to what they measured as successful or good, instead of realizing that perhaps what they had was good to begin with. The Spanish do not want to give up their siesta, but those nations that are producing and lending the money want Spain to do exactly that and start contributing during daylight hours.

So, while I was there, you had demonstrations in Madrid and signs here and there against cuts in this or that program. Yet, they want that new Iphone as well, or this or that car...and someone else to pay for it. This is just one example. The same situation is unfolding in Greece and Italy, and even to a lesser degree in Sweden where I currently reside.

So, how is austerity working in Europe? People are having to face no longer being able to live on the backs of others and not having to pay for it. There is complaining. Yet, are they mad enough to do something about it? I haven't seen that.

People are falling into an acceptance of this new direction. Is it because they know that, unlike decades before, a Turkish, Morroccan, or Pakistani is at the door banging to get in to not only work...but actually produce? I think that is one part of it. I think the other part of it is that so many of these migrants are quickly becoming the new wealth in these countries, and they tend to be so much more conscious of how to build and maintain wealth, and thus not favor government programs that diminish that, or, what we would normally and mistakenly call conservative economic principles. They are helping to further push the change of Europe in a new direction.

While Europe is beginning to shift in a direction that favors cuts in government programs and austerity, the US is going that opposite direction. It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the years to come.

So austerity isn't working.

I think he walked so far he is not sure. They seemed to not be doing well with austerity, but perhaps it was just that they were too tired. All that walking. Makes you unhappy.

 

[justme335]

Austerity isn't measured by the public debt.

Austerity is measured by the quality of lives of the people.

Well, up until 1.5 years ago, I was living in Europe for 4 years, and my quality of life was very nice. As well, I was working, and the people I worked with were not complaining about the quality of their lives either. I paid a 40% tax but still took home a decent salary and lived a nice lifestyle.

surprised to hear that especially from someone living in Portugal. What is everyone demonstrating about then?

 

[justme335]

The main reason for economic problems in Europe is the world wide recession, not EU economic policies.

The countries that are in recession are those which rely heavily on services and have no competitive industrial production

 

[jasonnfree]

Is austerity working in Europe? Exactly what does that mean?

I just returned from a 2 month hike of the 800 kilometer Camino de Santiago across northern Spain. You see lots of empty buildings where construction left them only halfway completed, and in industrial areas factories that are not producing.

So, they looked at their neighbors in the north and across the Atlantic and borrowed to bring their level of living up to what they measured as successful or good, instead of realizing that perhaps what they had was good to begin with. The Spanish do not want to give up their siesta, but those nations that are producing and lending the money want Spain to do exactly that and start contributing during daylight hours.

So, while I was there, you had demonstrations in Madrid and signs here and there against cuts in this or that program. Yet, they want that new Iphone as well, or this or that car...and someone else to pay for it. This is just one example. The same situation is unfolding in Greece and Italy, and even to a lesser degree in Sweden where I currently reside.

So, how is austerity working in Europe? People are having to face no longer being able to live on the backs of others and not having to pay for it. There is complaining. Yet, are they mad enough to do something about it? I haven't seen that.

People are falling into an acceptance of this new direction. Is it because they know that, unlike decades before, a Turkish, Morroccan, or Pakistani is at the door banging to get in to not only work...but actually produce? I think that is one part of it. I think the other part of it is that so many of these migrants are quickly becoming the new wealth in these countries, and they tend to be so much more conscious of how to build and maintain wealth, and thus not favor government programs that diminish that, or, what we would normally and mistakenly call conservative economic principles. They are helping to further push the change of Europe in a new direction.

While Europe is beginning to shift in a direction that favors cuts in government programs and austerity, the US is going that opposite direction. It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the years to come.

You say that now they know that A Turk, Moraccan, or Pakistani is at the door willing to produce like it's a good thing. The search for the cheapest labor by either bringing the low wage people into the country or sending the work out to the low wage nations is a good thing? This should be something to be protested. Supply and demand skewed by big business. It's been happening here in USA and I don't think it's anything to be applauded. Obama the so called liberal is hell bent on bringing more people here to compete for the disappearing jobs right now. Both low wage earners for the hotel, motel, tourist industries, Hb 1's for the tech industries and the list goes on.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Simple Concept: You have to spend less than you take in at some point (minus very responsible credit spending; which we know never happens). The OP is a fucking retard and he knows it.

 

[itfitzme]

Simple Concept: You have to spend less than you take in at some point (minus very responsible credit spending; which we know never happens). The OP is a fucking retard and he knows it.

Confusing macro economics with home economics and ignoring investent.

Many people take out an auto loan, student loan, or buy a house, spending beyond their take home pay and savings, on an investent which, done right, decreases their future monthly outlays, or increasing their future income, by incurring debt and paying interest.

It is a simple concept, really.

 

[rdean]

So, there has been a lot of talks about the austerity programs being pushed on european countries. Lots of blame being placed on the countries where austerity is in place, from all sorts of folks. Austerity is, in general, a forced program of free market policies with the primary plan being the reduction of debt by elimination of government spending. The stated projected outcome is that debt will be reduced, GDP will grow, and employment will be increased.
I have been waiting to determine what the outcome is likely to be. My want is that it would be most likely that Austerity would be a disaster. But I felt I owed it a look before mouthing off about the absurdity of the whole thing. And in my opinion, my opinion is of little value until there is some proof of the likely outcome. So, I kept watching, and after a year or two, I think the verdict is close to in. Increasingly. impartial sources close to the subject have become more and more and more pessimistic. And we are close to a time when it will be the decesion of most, by a wide margin, that austerity has failed, or is failing, in pretty much every country where it has been instituted.
Here is an article out of the UK that is very representative of what is being said:

Democracy in Europe has not been suspended, and the collision course is more apparent than ever. "Stop the world, we want to get off!" was The Wall Street Journal's verdict on the mounting European anti-austerity backlash. The truth is that the real world has paid the high priests of austerity an unwelcome visit. Their policies have sucked growth out of the economy, failed to tackle debt, dramatically increased unemployment, and devastated living standards. It would be utterly baffling if people did not fight back.

No wonder Greece is at the forefront of the backlash. A modern European society is being dismembered by austerity. The economy has shrunk by nearly a fifth, and the country's debt continues to mount. Over half of young people are without work; the minimum wage has been slashed to desperately low levels; and wages have fallen by a third since 2009. Then there's the ultimate indicator of despair: the number of people taking their own lives. Greece had one of the lowest suicide rates in the world, but experts suggest it may have doubled since the crisis began. Austerity is literally killing people.
Owen Jones: This austerity backlash across Europe could transform Britain - Commentators - Voices - The Independent

We should be interested. Austerity has some major similarities to our own fiscal cliff issues. We should be interested. European austerity is the model for neo conservative policies. Looking at how things are going, from a realistic point of view, should be useful.

The very foundation of conservatism is "don't do anything, keep things the same". "Standstill" is something we know from nature, is simply not possible.

 

[Rshermr]

Yep. They seem to have forgotten that just do nothing was practiced perfectly in the years prior to the fdr inauguration. And the us watched the unemployment rate go from under 3% to over 24%. And they want to do it again, and again, and again.