How long did it take Joseph Smith to translate the Book of Mormon?

[onefour1]

 

[BS Filter]

Do Mormons believe Jesus was eternal God before he came to earth and born as a male?

 

[onefour1]

Do Mormons believe Jesus was eternal God before he came to earth and born as a male?

Yes we do but not in the same way you do.

 

[BS Filter]

Do Mormons believe Jesus was eternal God before he came to earth and born as a male?

Yes we do but not in the same way you do.

I know. You don't believe the Scriptures.

 

[onefour1]

How so?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon from the golden plates in a time span of 85 days. <snip>

Define "translation"

 

[BS Filter]

How so?

Gospel of John, chapter one verse one. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and was God". Then a few verses later...."the Word became flesh". Do you believe that Scripture?

 

[onefour1]

Sure do. In the pre-mortal existence (beginning) was Jesus Christ our Lord (the Word). And Jesus Christ was with God the Eternal Father (God) and Jesus Christ was part of the God head of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost(and was God). Then a few verses later....Jesus Christ took upon himself a tabernacle of flesh and bones ("the Word became flesh"). Jesus was foreordained before the foundation of this world to be the Savior:

1 Peter 1:20
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

So what is your point?

 

[BS Filter]

Sure do. In the pre-mortal existence (beginning) was Jesus Christ our Lord (the Word). And Jesus Christ was with God the Eternal Father (God) and Jesus Christ was part of the God head of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost(and was God). Then a few verses later....Jesus Christ took upon himself a tabernacle of flesh and bones ("the Word became flesh"). Jesus was foreordained before the foundation of this world to be the Savior:

1 Peter 1:20
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

So what is your point?

Was Jesus God?

 

[onefour1]

As part of the Godhead, Jesus was indeed a God. He was not God the Father nor was he the God the Holy Ghost. He was God the Son, even Jesus Christ who was foreordained to come to the world as the Savior.

 

[BS Filter]

As part of the Godhead, Jesus was indeed a God. He was not God the Father nor was he the God the Holy Ghost. He was God the Son, even Jesus Christ who was foreordained to come to the world as the Savior.

No, Jesus wasn't a God. He was God. Scripture says He is God.

 

[JakeStarkey]

An evangelical vs a Pentecostal.

Yeehaw!

 

[onefour1]

As part of the Godhead, Jesus was indeed a God. He was not God the Father nor was he the God the Holy Ghost. He was God the Son, even Jesus Christ who was foreordained to come to the world as the Savior.

No, Jesus wasn't a God. He was God. Scripture says He is God.

Now you try to twist and say that I am saying he was not God. Jesus was not God the Father. He however, as a member of the Godhead can act in the name of the Father as God. Jesus is God. He is God in that he is a part of the Godhead and as part of the Godhead he represents what we know as God. He is a God and He is God. He is one in purpose and will with the Father. Jesus taught:

John 8:28
28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he,and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

John 5:19
19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

Notice how Jesus distinguishes himself from the Father when he says that he does nothing of himself. He only does that which the Father teaches him and does only that which the Father would do. But of himself he does nothing. God the Father is the head of the godhead. Jesus as the second member of the godhead does only that which the father would have him do. It was difficult for Jesus to go through the atoning sacrifice but he submitted his will to the Father and did only that which the Father would have him do:

Luke 22:41-43
41 And he was withdrawn from them about a stone’s cast, and kneeled down, and prayed,
42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
43 And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.

The will of Jesus at the time was to have the cup removed from him, but being totally obedient to the will of the Father he submitted his will to the Father's will.

Jesus definitely was God. He was a perfect revelation of the Father unto us here on earth. But he was not the Father as he distinguishes himself from the Father many times in scripture. He was God the Son. He was the second member of the godhead. Thus he was and is God but he is not the Father.

All members of the Godhead are one in will and purpose. Each one duly acts as God. Thus they are God.

 

[onefour1]

Another verse that brings this to light is:

John 17:1-5
1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Notice how Jesus distinguishes himself from the Father and recognizes the Father as the source of all glory and power. Notice how he refers to the Father as the only true God. This because Jesus submits his will to that of the Father who is the main source of all Glory and Power. Notice how he refers to the Father as giving him power over all flesh that he might give eternal life to as many as the Father has given him. Notice how Jesus prays for that glory that he once shared with the Father before the world was. Jesus never ever taught that he and the Father are the same being but that they are one in will, purpose and now, as he shared with the Father in his pre-earth existence, glory.

 

[Likkmee]

The testimony of the witnesses of the gold plates:

The Testimony of Three Witnesses

Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That we, through the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, have seen the plates which contain this record, which is a record of the people of Nephi, and also of the Lamanites, their brethren, and also of the people of Jared, who came from the tower of which hath been spoken. And we also know that they have been translated by the gift and power of God, for his voice hath declared it unto us; wherefore we know of a surety that the work is true. And we also testify that we have seen the engravings which are upon the plates; and they have been shown unto us by the power of God, and not of man. And we declare with words of soberness, that an angel of God came down from heaven, and he brought and laid before our eyes, that we beheld and saw the plates, and the engravings thereon; and we know that it is by the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, that we beheld and bear record that these things are true. And it is marvelous in our eyes. Nevertheless, the voice of the Lord commanded us that we should bear record of it; wherefore, to be obedient unto the commandments of God, we bear testimony of these things. And we know that if we are faithful in Christ, we shall rid our garments of the blood of all men, and be found spotless before the judgment-seat of Christ, and shall dwell with him eternally in the heavens. And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.

Oliver Cowdery

David Whitmer

Martin Harris


The Testimony of Eight Witnesses

Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That Joseph Smith, Jun., the translator of this work, has shown unto us the plates of which hath been spoken, which have the appearance of gold; and as many of the leaves as the said Smith has translated we did handle with our hands; and we also saw the engravings thereon, all of which has the appearance of ancient work, and of curious workmanship. And this we bear record with words of soberness, that the said Smith has shown unto us, for we have seen and hefted, and know of a surety that the said Smith has got the plates of which we have spoken. And we give our names unto the world, to witness unto the world that which we have seen. And we lie not, God bearing witness of it.

Christian Whitmer

Jacob Whitmer

Peter Whitmer, Jun.

John Whitmer

Hiram Page

Joseph Smith, Sen.

Hyrum Smith

Samuel H. Smith

Okay, that's interesting. But where did the plates go after they were handled and witnessed by these people?

eBay ?

 

[BS Filter]

As part of the Godhead, Jesus was indeed a God. He was not God the Father nor was he the God the Holy Ghost. He was God the Son, even Jesus Christ who was foreordained to come to the world as the Savior.

No, Jesus wasn't a God. He was God. Scripture says He is God.

Now you try to twist and say that I am saying he was not God. Jesus was not God the Father. He however, as a member of the Godhead can act in the name of the Father as God. Jesus is God. He is God in that he is a part of the Godhead and as part of the Godhead he represents what we know as God. He is a God and He is God. He is one in purpose and will with the Father. Jesus taught:

John 8:28
28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he,and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

John 5:19
19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

Notice how Jesus distinguishes himself from the Father when he says that he does nothing of himself. He only does that which the Father teaches him and does only that which the Father would do. But of himself he does nothing. God the Father is the head of the godhead. Jesus as the second member of the godhead does only that which the father would have him do. It was difficult for Jesus to go through the atoning sacrifice but he submitted his will to the Father and did only that which the Father would have him do:

Luke 22:41-43
41 And he was withdrawn from them about a stone’s cast, and kneeled down, and prayed,
42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
43 And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.

The will of Jesus at the time was to have the cup removed from him, but being totally obedient to the will of the Father he submitted his will to the Father's will.

Jesus definitely was God. He was a perfect revelation of the Father unto us here on earth. But he was not the Father as he distinguishes himself from the Father many times in scripture. He was God the Son. He was the second member of the godhead. Thus he was and is God but he is not the Father.

All members of the Godhead are one in will and purpose. Each one duly acts as God. Thus they are God.

One God, the Father and Jesus. Not two Gods.

 

[onefour1]

They are one in will and purpose as the Godhead. The Godhead is one God made up of three separate and distinct personages. The Godhead, as a group, is considered one God. Also each of the members of the Godhead are considered to be one God since they are one in will and purpose. Yet they are not one being but are three separate and distinct individual beings.

 

[Likkmee]

God is a spirit. The only way he could reveal himself to us super primates was to send a messenger in the form of a human(super primate/different genetic makeup). That is Yeshua. There has to be some politics involved as to why the whole movie has/had to go as it is yet, that wasn't revealed. It's also a "political" thing that the fruit was there in the original "garden" as a temptation as is the fact that Satan will get "jailed" for 1000 years then "released for a little while"
Knowledge will increase T/1:4
This Satan is a powerful mofo( I use that because it is todays standard of elaboration).....not bad enough.....because Yahwey sent it and 1/3 of the others and threw them out. That gave them control of this shithole we are incarcerated in.Earth. So powerful in fact he could offer up this whole place to anyone who would worship him. Even the Son himself.
If someone.....or something...offered you the entire line of tropical islands to be yours, all yours, but you would lose the ability to live forever ? Deep question eh ? The sane answer is NO...

 

[BS Filter]

They are one in will and purpose as the Godhead. The Godhead is one God made up of three separate and distinct personages. The Godhead, as a group, is considered one God. Also each of the members of the Godhead are considered to be one God since they are one in will and purpose. Yet they are not one being but are three separate and distinct individual beings.

So you believe in the Trinity?

 

[onefour1]

God is a spirit. The only way he could reveal himself to us super primates was to send a messenger in the form of a human(super primate/different genetic makeup). That is Yeshua. There has to be some politics involved as to why the whole movie has/had to go as it is yet, that wasn't revealed. It's also a "political" thing that the fruit was there in the original "garden" as a temptation as is the fact that Satan will get "jailed" for 1000 years then "released for a little while"
Knowledge will increase T/1:4
This Satan is a powerful mofo( I use that because it is todays standard of elaboration).....not bad enough.....because Yahwey sent it and 1/3 of the others and threw them out. That gave them control of this shithole we are incarcerated in.Earth. So powerful in fact he could offer up this whole place to anyone who would worship him. Even the Son himself.
If someone.....or something...offered you the entire line of tropical islands to be yours, all yours, but you would lose the ability to live forever ? Deep question eh ? The sane answer is NO...

It is not true that "The only way he could reveal himself to us super primates was to send a messenger in the form of a human(super primate/different genetic makeup)". The Old Testament tells us that God revealed himself to Jacob and Moses.

Genesis 32:30
30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

Exodus 33:11
11 And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.
.
.
.
17 And the Lord said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken: for thou hast found grace in my sight, and I know thee by name.
18 And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.
19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.
20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
21 And the Lord said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.