How many of you guys were born Christians? How many converted to Christianity?

[Meriweather]

Today's Bible lesson for the RC:
Matthew 23:9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.

The actual lessons for today are from Habakkuk, Timothy, and Luke. However, if you wish to discuss Matthew 23:9, here was the situation in Jesus' day....

There were many Jewish sects, and those who started those different sects were called the father of that sect (following in the tradition of Father Abraham).

Jesus told them that God is the author of their beliefs, so remember God is Father, Master, and Teacher of these beliefs. Jesus, and the Apostles, did address their disciples as children and/or son. Martin Luther was the "Father" of the Lutheran Church; Calvin the "Father" of the Presbyterian Church. This is what Jesus warned of--yet how many followed after Luther, Calvin, and others?

Of course, we can call our biological parent, "Father" and we can call our teachers "Professor" (a derivative); and we can call our spiritual leaders "Father" if they are still teaching what God the Father sent His Son to teach, who in turn taught the Apostles, who in turn taught the priests of the Church. All of these have a very different definition than the definition Christ was addressing. Christ was addressing those who broke off to become the "Father" of a new/different faith.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Today's Bible lesson for the RC:
Matthew 23:9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.

The actual lessons for today are from Habakkuk, Timothy, and Luke. However, if you wish to discuss Matthew 23:9, here was the situation in Jesus' day....

There were many Jewish sects, and those who started those different sects were called the father of that sect (following in the tradition of Father Abraham).

Jesus told them that God is the author of their beliefs, so remember God is Father, Master, and Teacher of these beliefs. Jesus, and the Apostles, did address their disciples as children and/or son. Martin Luther was the "Father" of the Lutheran Church; Calvin the "Father" of the Presbyterian Church. This is what Jesus warned of--yet how many followed after Luther, Calvin, and others?

Of course, we can call our biological parent, "Father" and we can call our teachers "Professor" (a derivative); and we can call our spiritual leaders "Father" if they are still teaching what God the Father sent His Son to teach, who in turn taught the Apostles, who in turn taught the priests of the Church. All of these have a very different definition than the definition Christ was addressing. Christ was addressing those who broke off to become the "Father" of a new/different faith.

You have only skirted the anti Biblical instructions to not call your church leaders father. Mathew 23:9 is clear.

 

[Meriweather]

You have only skirted the anti Biblical instructions to not call your church leaders father. Mathew 23:9 is clear.

The instructions: Call no man Father. If this was meant as you say it is, then none of us would be calling our male parent father. Look at the history, the culture, the people and the actual language used at that time. It gives a more accurate interpretation than the interpretation of the English offered fifteen hundred years after the fact.

What is clear is people spinning scripture to support their own agendas two thousand years later.

 

[Weatherman2020]

You have only skirted the anti Biblical instructions to not call your church leaders father. Mathew 23:9 is clear.

The instructions: Call no man Father. If this was meant as you say it is, then none of us would be calling our male parent father. Look at the history, the culture, the people and the actual language used at that time. It gives a more accurate interpretation than the interpretation of the English offered fifteen hundred years after the fact.

What is clear is people spinning scripture to support their own agendas two thousand years later.

Catholics have elevated people and dead people as being superior and required to intercede with God for you. UnBiblical BS. I'll continue to talk to JC directly, thank you.

 

[Meriweather]

Catholics have elevated people and dead people as being superior and required to intercede with God for you. UnBiblical BS. I'll continue to talk to JC directly, thank you.

Recognizing both the living and the dead as the Body of Christ elevates no one.

Then you would not ask Jesus to heal a mother-in-law, an employee, or a child? After all, in your belief system, no one needs anyone else to intercede for them, correct? Is it just Christ and oneself, no interlopers wanted--indeed, they are to be scorned?

 

[Weatherman2020]

Catholics have elevated people and dead people as being superior and required to intercede with God for you. UnBiblical BS. I'll continue to talk to JC directly, thank you.

Recognizing both the living and the dead as the Body of Christ elevates no one.

Then you would not ask Jesus to heal a mother-in-law, an employee, or a child? After all, in your belief system, no one needs anyone else to intercede for them, correct? Is it just Christ and oneself, no interlopers wanted--indeed, they are to be scorned?

Praying to dead people is anti-Biblical. Thinking you need someone to talk to God on your behalf is anti-Biblical. Calling men Father is anti-Biblical. Telling people they can get a loved one out a a fantasy purgatory for a certain price is anti-Biblical. Saying you have to talk to an official RC employee and confess your sins is anti-Biblical.
The list goes on and on. RC church has little to do with the message of Jesus.

 

[Meriweather]

Praying to dead people is anti-Biblical. Thinking you need someone to talk to God on your behalf is anti-Biblical. Calling men Father is anti-Biblical. Telling people they can get a loved one out a a fantasy purgatory for a certain price is anti-Biblical. Saying you have to talk to an official RC employee and confess your sins is anti-Biblical.
The list goes on and on. RC church has little to do with the message of Jesus.

Here's the problem: Since the Catholic Church, as a whole reads through the Bible every three years during Sunday Mass (and reads through the Bible every single year during daily Mass) then when I read your post, all I can surmise it is from someone who does not read the Bible--or hasn't read it in quite some time.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Praying to dead people is anti-Biblical. Thinking you need someone to talk to God on your behalf is anti-Biblical. Calling men Father is anti-Biblical. Telling people they can get a loved one out a a fantasy purgatory for a certain price is anti-Biblical. Saying you have to talk to an official RC employee and confess your sins is anti-Biblical.
The list goes on and on. RC church has little to do with the message of Jesus.

Here's the problem: Since the Catholic Church, as a whole reads through the Bible every three years during Sunday Mass (and reads through the Bible every single year during daily Mass) then when I read your post, all I can surmise it is from someone who does not read the Bible--or hasn't read it in quite some time.

Feel free tell us the Scriptures showing I am wrong:

Praying to dead people is anti-Biblical.

Thinking you need someone to talk to God on your behalf is anti-Biblical.

Calling men Father is anti-Biblical.

Telling people they can get a loved one out a a fantasy purgatory for a certain price is anti-Biblical.

Saying you have to talk to an official RC employee and confess your sins is anti-Biblical.

 

[Meriweather]

Feel free tell us the Scriptures showing I am wrong:

Praying to dead people is anti-Biblical.

Thinking you need someone to talk to God on your behalf is anti-Biblical.

Calling men Father is anti-Biblical.

Telling people they can get a loved one out a a fantasy purgatory for a certain price is anti-Biblical.

Saying you have to talk to an official RC employee and confess your sins is anti-Biblical.

If you are familiar with scripture, then you already know my references. If not, then after you do read the Bible, perhaps we could have another discussion.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Feel free tell us the Scriptures showing I am wrong:

Praying to dead people is anti-Biblical.

Thinking you need someone to talk to God on your behalf is anti-Biblical.

Calling men Father is anti-Biblical.

Telling people they can get a loved one out a a fantasy purgatory for a certain price is anti-Biblical.

Saying you have to talk to an official RC employee and confess your sins is anti-Biblical.

If you are familiar with scripture, then you already know my references. If not, then after you do read the Bible, perhaps we could have another discussion.

There are no Scriptures that support the RC practices. That's why you can't list any to rebut each point made.

 

[Meriweather]

There are no Scriptures that support the RC practices. That's why you can't list any to rebut each point made.

There you are wrong. The problem we have here is that I know scripture well enough to identify which scriptures have been interpreted differently by some since the Reformation, whereas you don't know them well enough to even identify their pre-Reformation history and interpretation. You made no points--you just made up stuff. There is nothing to rebut but your straw men. Straw men aren't worth time or attention.

This is not to say there are no Biblical passages where people can't reach differing conclusions--each valid. I find discussing these conclusions interesting and time-worthy because I enjoy the thoughts of others.

 

[Weatherman2020]

There are no Scriptures that support the RC practices. That's why you can't list any to rebut each point made.

There you are wrong. The problem we have here is that I know scripture well enough to identify which scriptures have been interpreted differently by some since the Reformation, whereas you don't know them well enough to even identify their pre-Reformation history and interpretation. You made no points--you just made up stuff. There is nothing to rebut but your straw men. Straw men aren't worth time or attention.

This is not to say there are no Biblical passages where people can't reach differing conclusions--each valid. I find discussing these conclusions interesting and time-worthy because I enjoy the thoughts of others.

Again. State the scripture to each practice showing I'm wrong.
You can't.

Have a friend, known him for 10 years. He's 85 now and dying. But 10 years ago he dropped in and found God after being a life long Catholic. He never knew God in hindsight and while he believed he was a Christian saw that he never was.

It all gets down to do you believe the Bible is Gods word and how does what it say fit into your life.

 

[Meriweather]

Again. State the scripture to each practice showing I'm wrong.
You can't.

Again. Read the Bible. It's all there.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Again. State the scripture to each practice showing I'm wrong.
You can't.

Again. Read the Bible. It's all there.

You can't name any Scripture because there is none. Most RC practices are unBiblical.
I will also bet most of the Catholics you know, maybe yourself included, have never been baptized as an adult. You'll say I was baptized as an infant. That's like saying you baptized an unconscious man laying in the street so now he's a Christian. Illogical and unBiblical.

 

[Meriweather]

Again. State the scripture to each practice showing I'm wrong.
You can't.

Again. Read the Bible. It's all there.

You can't name any Scripture because there is none. Most RC practices are unBiblical.
I will also bet most of the Catholics you know, maybe yourself included, have never been baptized as an adult. You'll say I was baptized as an infant. That's like saying you baptized an unconscious man laying in the street so now he's a Christian. Illogical and unBiblical.

Jesus once quoted Isaiah. He said, "Listen carefully, but you shall never understand. Look intently, but you shall never see."

All that you claim is not in the Bible, is there, hiding right in plain sight (as the saying goes). You have no wish to see it, your wish is to pretend it isn't there. Argue for your limitations and you get to keep them.

Why would I want to wait to be baptized as an adult when my baptism and the Holy Spirit was working within me when I was a toddler? If non-Catholics wish to wait sometimes half their life, more power to them. Jesus tells us that those who enter the vineyard late in the day will have the same reward as those who entered at dawn. I'm happy for you. But I am also joyful that I was one who was able to enter at dawn.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Again. State the scripture to each practice showing I'm wrong.
You can't.

Again. Read the Bible. It's all there.

You can't name any Scripture because there is none. Most RC practices are unBiblical.
I will also bet most of the Catholics you know, maybe yourself included, have never been baptized as an adult. You'll say I was baptized as an infant. That's like saying you baptized an unconscious man laying in the street so now he's a Christian. Illogical and unBiblical.

Jesus once quoted Isaiah. He said, "Listen carefully, but you shall never understand. Look intently, but you shall never see."

All that you claim is not in the Bible, is there, hiding right in plain sight (as the saying goes). You have no wish to see it, your wish is to pretend it isn't there. Argue for your limitations and you get to keep them.

Why would I want to wait to be baptized as an adult when my baptism and the Holy Spirit was working within me when I was a toddler? If non-Catholics wish to wait sometimes half their life, more power to them. Jesus tells us that those who enter the vineyard late in the day will have the same reward as those who entered at dawn. I'm happy for you. But I am also joyful that I was one who was able to enter at dawn.

Really? Where do you get this theology? Never mind, I know.

So why aren't you running around to maternity wards making Christians? Sprinkle some of your "holy water" on them and bingo! Christian!

There is no Scripture that supports what Catholics do, and you know it because you can't quote any.

A. An infant cannot place their faith in Jesus Christ as their Lord and savior.
B. Baptism does not save anyone nor does the Holy Spirit sit around waiting for someone to be Baptized to work in them.
C. Infants are as sinful as any adult. Psalms say so.
D. Only those who profess with their mouths that they are sinners and Jesus Christ is their Lord and Savior are Christians. Only those.

Everything I believe and do is supported by Scripture, and I can name every verse. The fact you cannot should make you pause. I can start quoting verses if you wish.

Like my friend who spent his first 75 years as a Catholic thinking he was a Christian, he realized he never was. I think that's true for many Catholics.

 

[Mudda]

If you can be born Christian, then why can't you be born gay?

 

[Weatherman2020]

If you can be born Christian, then why can't you be born gay?

Because you can't be born Christian.
But we are all born sinners. Some just like perverse sex as their sin to covet.

 

[Mudda]

If you can be born Christian, then why can't you be born gay?

Because you can't be born Christian.
But we are all born sinners. Some just like perverse sex as their sin to covet.

So Christ and god abandon you when you're born? Are they black?

 

[Meriweather]

Really? Where do you get this theology? Never mind, I know.

So why aren't you running around to maternity wards making Christians? Sprinkle some of your "holy water" on them and bingo! Christian!

There is no Scripture that supports what Catholics do, and you know it because you can't quote any.

A. An infant cannot place their faith in Jesus Christ as their Lord and savior.
B. Baptism does not save anyone nor does the Holy Spirit sit around waiting for someone to be Baptized to work in them.
C. Infants are as sinful as any adult. Psalms say so.
D. Only those who profess with their mouths that they are sinners and Jesus Christ is their Lord and Savior are Christians. Only those.

Everything I believe and do is supported by Scripture, and I can name every verse. The fact you cannot should make you pause. I can start quoting verses if you wish.

Like my friend who spent his first 75 years as a Catholic thinking he was a Christian, he realized he never was. I think that's true for many Catholics.

As I noted before: Look intently, but you will never see; Listen carefully but you will never understand. What is astonishing to me is that I, a Catholic, can listen to whatever non-Catholic belief you bring up and can identify the scripture you think addresses that belief. Yet you, who can name every verse, can't identify the scriptures that support Catholic practices. I find that amazing...and particularly sad. I know you are fond of telling about your seventy-five year old (plus) Catholic friend. I don't play that game because I know too many former non-Catholics who turned to Catholicism because their sect couldn't address the questions they had. You can look up statistics online. It appears that the more educated converts to another sect of Christianity turn to Catholicism. Find all the former Catholics you want. I can surpass you with former Protestants, now very happy to be Catholic.

Seriously? "Making" Christians by immersing them in water? Is that all baptism is to you? No wonder you are unable to find Catholic practices in scripture.

Baptism does not save any more than the law saves. Both are inanimate. It is our Lord God, a living being, who is our salvation. Come on...that's basic, and you aren't even aware of it?

Perhaps to you Christians are only those who give lip service. For us others, there are much better defining qualities to being a Christian. Primarily, we pick up our cross each day and follow Christ.