How much do extremely wealthy people owe to the society that gave them the chance to prosper so much?

[dblack]

Exactly how did they allow the super rich to prosper?

By creating the environment that allowed them to grow so well. Do you think Bill Gates would be where he is today if he had been born in some isolated African tribe where he didn't have the opportunity to learn how to read?

Would you be posting on an internet forum if not for Bill Gates?

Yes. I was posting on ARPANET long before PC's were a thing.

Bill Gates, and others like him, created an environment which has in turn created many millions of jobs around the world, if not billions.

We owe them, not the other way around.

Unless coercion was involved, it was an even trade.

 

[Indeependent]

Exactly how did they allow the super rich to prosper?

By creating the environment that allowed them to grow so well. Do you think Bill Gates would be where he is today if he had been born in some isolated African tribe where he didn't have the opportunity to learn how to read?

Would you be posting on an internet forum if not for Bill Gates?

Do you remember the NetScape Navigator?

 

[bripat9643]

Trumpsters are nationalists.

If you say so...

I do. Conservatives in the mold of Buckley, Goldwater, etc... were primarily interested in limited government and individual rights - the sort of people you'd likely label "social darwinists". Trump, on the other hand, doesn't care much about those concerns and is far more interested in propping up the nation-state with active legal intervention (tariffs, subsidies, attacking media critics with legal threats, rewarding supportive business with special perks and tax breaks, etc...).

Trump is not in favor of rewarding favored businesses with tax breaks. That's what Dims do. Trump wants to give tax breaks to all businesses. What you mean by "attacking media critics with legal threats" is repealing legal protections for tech monopolies like Google and twitter.

As for "propping up the nation state, what he favors is doing what's best for America.

You obvioously can't tell the truth about Trump, which means you're nothing but a sleazy lying Trump hating douchebag. You obviously aren't any kind of libertarian as you claim to be.

 

[bripat9643]

Exactly how did they allow the super rich to prosper?

By creating the environment that allowed them to grow so well. Do you think Bill Gates would be where he is today if he had been born in some isolated African tribe where he didn't have the opportunity to learn how to read?

Would you be posting on an internet forum if not for Bill Gates?

Yes. I was posting on ARPANET long before PC's were a thing.

Bill Gates, and others like him, created an environment which has in turn created many millions of jobs around the world, if not billions.

We owe them, not the other way around.

Unless coercion was involved, it was an even trade.

It certainly doesn't entitle the government to anything from Gates.

 

[Deplorable Yankee]

Surely something, right? I see a lot of people talk like taxes are theft. Is it not just our obligation?

Another broke ass" well read" leftard begging for crumbs

 

[bripat9643]

Fine sounding propaganda, but no real ideas. Here's one. Stop government student loans. Stop ALL worthless degrees. The vast majority of college students SHOULDN'T be in college. I do agree that with the amount of wealth we have that health care should be better managed. However, government fucks up everything they touch. The government should have NO say in how health care is managed other than these are the regulations that govern licensure.

As long as education is a private money making scheme you won't get rid of bullshit degrees. Educating our nation shouldn't be profit motivated in my opinion.

Why not? For something to be worth learning, time wise I am speaking of, it must be worth something monetarily. Otherwise why create a degree around it?

I learn all of the time for pleasure. My learning costs no one a dime. Why should I pay for someone to sit on their butt and learn about the sex life of the Saharan dung beetle? That has no value to anyone. Not even the dung beetle.

I don't think dung beetles live in the Sahara. Wherever there are elephants, there are dung beetles.

 

[dblack]

Exactly how did they allow the super rich to prosper?

By creating the environment that allowed them to grow so well. Do you think Bill Gates would be where he is today if he had been born in some isolated African tribe where he didn't have the opportunity to learn how to read?

Would you be posting on an internet forum if not for Bill Gates?

Yes. I was posting on ARPANET long before PC's were a thing.

Bill Gates, and others like him, created an environment which has in turn created many millions of jobs around the world, if not billions.

We owe them, not the other way around.

Unless coercion was involved, it was an even trade.

It certainly doesn't entitle the government to anything from Gates.

Unless theft was involved, no one owes anything to the government other than their share of the tax burden.

 

[bripat9643]

ROFL! No it doesn't. If anything has been shown this year, it's that government represents itself.

You won't get much opposition from me from the position that the government isn't doing its job well enough.

When has it ever done its job well?

 

[bripat9643]

So even in the country you all love to point to there is no free college for all.

I prefer to point at Scandinavian countries. There's no doubt that they have a very different and very successful approach to education.

They have school choice in Scandanavian countries.

 

[bripat9643]

Surely something, right? I see a lot of people talk like taxes are theft. Is it not just our obligation?

The distribution of wealth is ultimately determined by the dominant military force.

The economic system is created by the government according to the laws of that government.

Without the U.S. government there would be nothing to protect the wealthy and guarantee their wealth.

So the more you have, the more you are obliged to contribute to the existence of the U.S. government.

I don't really disagree, but the founders never wanted a mercenary military force because people working for pay can never be trusted.
They wanted a volunteer military only, and that does not have to cost anything.

And when you write, "The economic system is created by the government according to the laws of that government", you have to be careful, and remember that WE are supposed to be the government, and laws are only supposed to be according to what is necessary to defend individual rights, or popularly agreed upon to enhance the lives of all.
There is not supposed to be a separate party that is government, and it certainly is not supposed to be above us.
Of, by, and for the People.

My first 2 statements are general principles that apply to every society - not just the U.S.

Here in the U.S. the general rule regarding economics has been "when in doubt - government stay out"

However, there are some basic principles that have to be enforced by law for anything close to a free market economy to exist.

Three of these principles that I can think of are:

- Transactions must be peaceful
- Transactions must be willful
- Contracts must be honored

Never say "free market".
Free market means no regulations or rules at all, which means abuses ranging from monoplies, to holdup at gunpoint.
The correct term for a business friendly environment is "fair market".
That is where everyone has reasonable protection.
No holdups, no scams, no monopolies, etc.
Free market means anything goes.

I tend to agree that what people call a 'free market' is not really a free market. It's a reasonably regulated market to insure some degree of civilized transactions.

However, there are quite a lot of people who'd like to have an anything goes free market. As long as it benefits themselves.

Most anti-tax people refuse to recognize the importance of Government to ensure that the market is not an "anything goes free market".

What we have now is not even close to being a free market. Aside from tics sucking off the government, everyone benefits from a free market.

 

[Winston]

Trumpsters are nationalists.

If you say so...

I do. Conservatives in the mold of Buckley, Goldwater, etc... were primarily interested in limited government and individual rights - the sort of people you'd likely label "social darwinists". Trump, on the other hand, doesn't care much about those concerns and is far more interested in propping up the nation-state with active legal intervention (tariffs, subsidies, attacking media critics with legal threats, rewarding supportive business with special perks and tax breaks, etc...).

Trump is not in favor of rewarding favored businesses with tax breaks. That's what Dims do. Trump wants to give tax breaks to all businesses. What you mean by "attacking media critics with legal threats" is repealing legal protections for tech monopolies like Google and twitter.

As for "propping up the nation state, what he favors is doing what's best for America.

You obvioously can't tell the truth about Trump, which means you're nothing but a sleazy lying Trump hating douchebag. You obviously aren't any kind of libertarian as you claim to be.

You live in a fantasy world. Trump does not pick favorites? Bullshit. Tariffs were instigated to protect "favored" businesses. Do you even know what an "opportunity zones" is? They were expanded under the Trump tax cut. By definition, they favor certain areas and businesses and are almost exclusive utilized by the wealthy, like Trump and the Kuschners. Do you know what pass through income is? Another nice tax break included in the Trump tax cut, mostly for real estate developers, go figure. When you get right down to it, Trump has passed exclusive tax breaks for the one entity he favors above all else, HIMSELF.
y
What about the environmental regulation rollbacks? Don't you think they favored certain businesses? I have said it before, you are too ignorant to understand it, but those rollbacks have allowed companies to externalize their costs. That ain't good for you or me, damn great for those businesses.

And now, since he is such a tiny, vengeful, spiteful, little boy, he has got is lapdog McConnell going after social media. But those big internet providers, they can throttle your Netflix movies, no problem. But hey, they say ignorance is bliss. You got to be the most blissful person on the face of the earth.

 

[Winston]

Surely something, right? I see a lot of people talk like taxes are theft. Is it not just our obligation?

The distribution of wealth is ultimately determined by the dominant military force.

The economic system is created by the government according to the laws of that government.

Without the U.S. government there would be nothing to protect the wealthy and guarantee their wealth.

So the more you have, the more you are obliged to contribute to the existence of the U.S. government.

I don't really disagree, but the founders never wanted a mercenary military force because people working for pay can never be trusted.
They wanted a volunteer military only, and that does not have to cost anything.

And when you write, "The economic system is created by the government according to the laws of that government", you have to be careful, and remember that WE are supposed to be the government, and laws are only supposed to be according to what is necessary to defend individual rights, or popularly agreed upon to enhance the lives of all.
There is not supposed to be a separate party that is government, and it certainly is not supposed to be above us.
Of, by, and for the People.

My first 2 statements are general principles that apply to every society - not just the U.S.

Here in the U.S. the general rule regarding economics has been "when in doubt - government stay out"

However, there are some basic principles that have to be enforced by law for anything close to a free market economy to exist.

Three of these principles that I can think of are:

- Transactions must be peaceful
- Transactions must be willful
- Contracts must be honored

Never say "free market".
Free market means no regulations or rules at all, which means abuses ranging from monoplies, to holdup at gunpoint.
The correct term for a business friendly environment is "fair market".
That is where everyone has reasonable protection.
No holdups, no scams, no monopolies, etc.
Free market means anything goes.

I tend to agree that what people call a 'free market' is not really a free market. It's a reasonably regulated market to insure some degree of civilized transactions.

However, there are quite a lot of people who'd like to have an anything goes free market. As long as it benefits themselves.

Most anti-tax people refuse to recognize the importance of Government to ensure that the market is not an "anything goes free market".

What we have now is not even close to being a free market. Aside from tics sucking off the government, everyone benefits from a free market.

You don't even know what a free market is. But I will give you a hint, it is not a market free from government regulation. Study some Adam Smith, read the Wealth of Nations. A free market is free from rent-seeking. Oh wait, you don't know what that is either.

 

[bripat9643]

What is the government that you believe in? Third time I've asked and you have either not answered or deflected.
One has to think that you're a communist with your answers that you've given.

Communists want the government to completely take over production. That's not what I want.

No matter how much the left gets, it always wants more. The end result of this process will a complete take over of production.

You're a communist.

 

[westwall]

Exactly how did they allow the super rich to prosper?

By creating the environment that allowed them to grow so well. Do you think Bill Gates would be where he is today if he had been born in some isolated African tribe where he didn't have the opportunity to learn how to read?

Would you be posting on an internet forum if not for Bill Gates?

Yes. I was posting on ARPANET long before PC's were a thing.

Bill Gates, and others like him, created an environment which has in turn created many millions of jobs around the world, if not billions.

We owe them, not the other way around.

Not arguing that, you asked if Gates basically invented the internet, and that is not factual. The porn industry has actually been responsible for the most development of the technology though. By far.

 

[bripat9643]

Trumpsters are nationalists.

If you say so...

I do. Conservatives in the mold of Buckley, Goldwater, etc... were primarily interested in limited government and individual rights - the sort of people you'd likely label "social darwinists". Trump, on the other hand, doesn't care much about those concerns and is far more interested in propping up the nation-state with active legal intervention (tariffs, subsidies, attacking media critics with legal threats, rewarding supportive business with special perks and tax breaks, etc...).

Trump is not in favor of rewarding favored businesses with tax breaks. That's what Dims do. Trump wants to give tax breaks to all businesses. What you mean by "attacking media critics with legal threats" is repealing legal protections for tech monopolies like Google and twitter.

As for "propping up the nation state, what he favors is doing what's best for America.

You obvioously can't tell the truth about Trump, which means you're nothing but a sleazy lying Trump hating douchebag. You obviously aren't any kind of libertarian as you claim to be.

You live in a fantasy world. Trump does not pick favorites? Bullshit. Tariffs were instigated to protect "favored" businesses. Do you even know what an "opportunity zones" is? They were expanded under the Trump tax cut. By definition, they favor certain areas and businesses and are almost exclusive utilized by the wealthy, like Trump and the Kuschners. Do you know what pass through income is? Another nice tax break included in the Trump tax cut, mostly for real estate developers, go figure. When you get right down to it, Trump has passed exclusive tax breaks for the one entity he favors above all else, HIMSELF.
y
What about the environmental regulation rollbacks? Don't you think they favored certain businesses? I have said it before, you are too ignorant to understand it, but those rollbacks have allowed companies to externalize their costs. That ain't good for you or me, damn great for those businesses.

And now, since he is such a tiny, vengeful, spiteful, little boy, he has got is lapdog McConnell going after social media. But those big internet providers, they can throttle your Netflix movies, no problem. But hey, they say ignorance is bliss. You got to be the most blissful person on the face of the earth.

Your "logic" is too stupid to waste my time disputing.

 

[westwall]

Fine sounding propaganda, but no real ideas. Here's one. Stop government student loans. Stop ALL worthless degrees. The vast majority of college students SHOULDN'T be in college. I do agree that with the amount of wealth we have that health care should be better managed. However, government fucks up everything they touch. The government should have NO say in how health care is managed other than these are the regulations that govern licensure.

As long as education is a private money making scheme you won't get rid of bullshit degrees. Educating our nation shouldn't be profit motivated in my opinion.

Why not? For something to be worth learning, time wise I am speaking of, it must be worth something monetarily. Otherwise why create a degree around it?

I learn all of the time for pleasure. My learning costs no one a dime. Why should I pay for someone to sit on their butt and learn about the sex life of the Saharan dung beetle? That has no value to anyone. Not even the dung beetle.

I don't think dung beetles live in the Sahara. Wherever there are elephants, there are dung beetles.

It's a joke, like underwater basket weaving.

 

[beautress]

Exactly how did they allow the super rich to prosper?

By creating the environment that allowed them to grow so well. Do you think Bill Gates would be where he is today if he had been born in some isolated African tribe where he didn't have the opportunity to learn how to read?

Would you be posting on an internet forum if not for Bill Gates?

Yes. I was posting on ARPANET long before PC's were a thing.

Bill Gates, and others like him, created an environment which has in turn created many millions of jobs around the world, if not billions.

We owe them, not the other way around.

What is the government that you believe in? Third time I've asked and you have either not answered or deflected.
One has to think that you're a communist with your answers that you've given.

Communists want the government to completely take over production. That's not what I want.

Trumpsters are nationalists.

If you say so...

I do. Conservatives in the mold of Buckley, Goldwater, etc... were primarily interested in limited government and individual rights - the sort of people you'd likely label "social darwinists". Trump, on the other hand, doesn't care much about those concerns and is far more interested in propping up the nation-state with active legal intervention (tariffs, subsidies, attacking media critics with legal threats, rewarding supportive business with special perks and tax breaks, etc...).

Trump is not in favor of rewarding favored businesses with tax breaks. That's what Dims do. Trump wants to give tax breaks to all businesses. What you mean by "attacking media critics with legal threats" is repealing legal protections for tech monopolies like Google and twitter.

As for "propping up the nation state, what he favors is doing what's best for America.

You obvioously can't tell the truth about Trump, which means you're nothing but a sleazy lying Trump hating douchebag. You obviously aren't any kind of libertarian as you claim to be.

You live in a fantasy world. Trump does not pick favorites? Bullshit. Tariffs were instigated to protect "favored" businesses. Do you even know what an "opportunity zones" is? They were expanded under the Trump tax cut. By definition, they favor certain areas and businesses and are almost exclusive utilized by the wealthy, like Trump and the Kuschners. Do you know what pass through income is? Another nice tax break included in the Trump tax cut, mostly for real estate developers, go figure. When you get right down to it, Trump has passed exclusive tax breaks for the one entity he favors above all else, HIMSELF.
y
What about the environmental regulation rollbacks? Don't you think they favored certain businesses? I have said it before, you are too ignorant to understand it, but those rollbacks have allowed companies to externalize their costs. That ain't good for you or me, damn great for those businesses.

And now, since he is such a tiny, vengeful, spiteful, little boy, he has got is lapdog McConnell going after social media. But those big internet providers, they can throttle your Netflix movies, no problem. But hey, they say ignorance is bliss. You got to be the most blissful person on the face of the earth.

Winston, President Trump helped businesses, yeah. And guess what those "favored" businesses helped do.

Yeah. They created millions upon millions of jobs in America, paying higher wages than ever and giving minorities that favor of being able to earn having the American Dream.

Tell me this: why does all this good on the American worker delivered by President Trump piss off dumbass Nancy? Enquiring minds would like to know.

 

[bripat9643]

Exactly how did they allow the super rich to prosper?

By creating the environment that allowed them to grow so well. Do you think Bill Gates would be where he is today if he had been born in some isolated African tribe where he didn't have the opportunity to learn how to read?

Would you be posting on an internet forum if not for Bill Gates?

Yes. I was posting on ARPANET long before PC's were a thing.

Bill Gates, and others like him, created an environment which has in turn created many millions of jobs around the world, if not billions.

We owe them, not the other way around.

What is the government that you believe in? Third time I've asked and you have either not answered or deflected.
One has to think that you're a communist with your answers that you've given.

Communists want the government to completely take over production. That's not what I want.

Trumpsters are nationalists.

If you say so...

I do. Conservatives in the mold of Buckley, Goldwater, etc... were primarily interested in limited government and individual rights - the sort of people you'd likely label "social darwinists". Trump, on the other hand, doesn't care much about those concerns and is far more interested in propping up the nation-state with active legal intervention (tariffs, subsidies, attacking media critics with legal threats, rewarding supportive business with special perks and tax breaks, etc...).

Trump is not in favor of rewarding favored businesses with tax breaks. That's what Dims do. Trump wants to give tax breaks to all businesses. What you mean by "attacking media critics with legal threats" is repealing legal protections for tech monopolies like Google and twitter.

As for "propping up the nation state, what he favors is doing what's best for America.

You obvioously can't tell the truth about Trump, which means you're nothing but a sleazy lying Trump hating douchebag. You obviously aren't any kind of libertarian as you claim to be.

You live in a fantasy world. Trump does not pick favorites? Bullshit. Tariffs were instigated to protect "favored" businesses. Do you even know what an "opportunity zones" is? They were expanded under the Trump tax cut. By definition, they favor certain areas and businesses and are almost exclusive utilized by the wealthy, like Trump and the Kuschners. Do you know what pass through income is? Another nice tax break included in the Trump tax cut, mostly for real estate developers, go figure. When you get right down to it, Trump has passed exclusive tax breaks for the one entity he favors above all else, HIMSELF.
y
What about the environmental regulation rollbacks? Don't you think they favored certain businesses? I have said it before, you are too ignorant to understand it, but those rollbacks have allowed companies to externalize their costs. That ain't good for you or me, damn great for those businesses.

And now, since he is such a tiny, vengeful, spiteful, little boy, he has got is lapdog McConnell going after social media. But those big internet providers, they can throttle your Netflix movies, no problem. But hey, they say ignorance is bliss. You got to be the most blissful person on the face of the earth.

Winston, President Trump helped businesses, yeah. And guess what those "favored" businesses helped do.

Yeah. They created millions upon millions of jobs in America, paying higher wages than ever and giving minorities that favor of being able to earn having the American Dream.

Tell me this: why does all this good on the American worker delivered by President Trump piss off dumbass Nancy? Enquiring minds would like to know.

By "favored businesses" he means every business in the country. That's another example of the leftwing dictionary.

 

[MarathonMike]

Surely something, right? I see a lot of people talk like taxes are theft. Is it not just our obligation?

It should come from peer pressure, not federal taxes. We should make a huge deal out of very wealthy people who donate significant amounts to the less fortunate. I mean like Oscar level award shows, lots of babes with boobs hanging out in the audience, the whole nine yards. Then the cheapskate wealthy people will be jealous and want to get their awards. Soon they will start donating megabucks voluntarily.

 

[beautress]

Fine sounding propaganda, but no real ideas. Here's one. Stop government student loans. Stop ALL worthless degrees. The vast majority of college students SHOULDN'T be in college. I do agree that with the amount of wealth we have that health care should be better managed. However, government fucks up everything they touch. The government should have NO say in how health care is managed other than these are the regulations that govern licensure.

As long as education is a private money making scheme you won't get rid of bullshit degrees. Educating our nation shouldn't be profit motivated in my opinion.

Why not? For something to be worth learning, time wise I am speaking of, it must be worth something monetarily. Otherwise why create a degree around it?

I learn all of the time for pleasure. My learning costs no one a dime. Why should I pay for someone to sit on their butt and learn about the sex life of the Saharan dung beetle? That has no value to anyone. Not even the dung beetle.

I don't think dung beetles live in the Sahara. Wherever there are elephants, there are dung beetles.

According to my sources, dung beetles live on all continents except Antarctica. The common name of the Sahara specie is "Sacred Scarab."