How sad that our founders figured it out over 230 years ago and we still haven't yet

[editec]

While Jefferson supported the idea of public education, he would not have placed schools under government supervision. Instead, he argued for the placement of “each school at once under the care of those most interested in its conduct.” He would put parents in charge.

"But if it is believed that these elementary schools will be better managed by…[any] general authority of the government, than by the parents within each ward, it is a belief against all experience.… No, my friend, the way to have good and safe government, is not to trust it all to one, but to divide it among the many, distributing to every one exactly the functions he is competent to."

Government = failure (it's an undeniable fact)

Which is exactly what we have, Rott. 20,000 different school systems. Not one run by government, but 20,000 unique school districts run by local citizens.

You're bitching about something that clearly you know absolutely nothing about.

 

[P@triot]

The concept of local oversight of local affairs is great. However, as many in these threads often insist, this country is a republic, not a direct democracy, so minorities are protected. When it was seen that 'local' meant 'segregated', something had to be done. Any such action is unfortunate, but what is more unfortunate is that 'local' didn't work because 'locals' weren't good 'republicans'.

Where in the hell is the logic in that? Are you under the impression that the federal government is some pure entity which cannot possibly be corrupt, racist, deceitful, etc.?

Last time I checked, Obama and attorney general Eric Holder were as racist and divisive as anyone is U.S. political history - local or federal.

 

[there4eyeM]

"... distributing to every one exactly the functions he is competent to."

What we need is competent citizenship.

 

[there4eyeM]

The concept of local oversight of local affairs is great. However, as many in these threads often insist, this country is a republic, not a direct democracy, so minorities are protected. When it was seen that 'local' meant 'segregated', something had to be done. Any such action is unfortunate, but what is more unfortunate is that 'local' didn't work because 'locals' weren't good 'republicans'.

Where in the hell is the logic in that? Are you under the impression that the federal government is some pure entity which cannot possibly be corrupt, racist, deceitful, etc.?

Last time I checked, Obama and attorney general Eric Holder were as racist and divisive as anyone is U.S. political history - local or federal.

Is the understanding of English so woefully lacking?

What was used was a historical example. Local school districts locally run are a great democratic concept. However, at a point in American history this did not work in a human fashion and, very unfortunately, demanded redress. It is lamentable that the federal government had to get involved, but the alternatives were not apparent. Thus, the reference to (small 'r') republican processes as compared with (small 'd') direct democracy.

Is that clear, or can someone now interpret my post as pro-communist or something?

 

[P@triot]

I'm in awe of our founders.
That they STUDIED, and conversed, and did their very best to think of every eventuality,
even to the point of LIMITING their power, knowing what corruption could, and would, bring.

But, HEY! It's just some ideals that this country was built upon,
and it's so dangerous out there, all by ourselves, that we need PARENTS,
even after we're all grown up,
to tell us what, and how, and when, and where,
and most particularly, WHY.
And to be "safe," well, dang, we'll accept a little, or a LOT of, corruption, 'cuz THAT's how we wanna roll!

We watch, as EVERY OTHER "system" of government falls,
and instead of GRABBING hold of what makes us/US impervious to those disasters,
we rush out and try to incorporate them into our WORKING system,
that DOES value each and every one of us/US,
as much as WE "value" ourselves.

I'm glad that I'm old, for all of this,
because I can be Front Lines, expendable firepower for the civil war,
or just long gone for the denouement of all of this idiocy.

I too am in awe of our founders. And do you know why they had such remarkable foresight? Because they lived under tyranny. They experienced the stifling oppression and realized that nothing was worth trading freedom for and they realized what leads to tyranny.

Today we're a nation of ungrateful, spoiled brats. So many in our country will trade their rights and freedoms for government table scraps - just so they don't have to work or be expected to exhibit personal responsibility. Why do you think our founders left out "universal healthcare" as a right? That wasn't by accident...

 

[fyrenza]

"... distributing to every one exactly the functions he is competent to."

What we need is competent citizenship.

oh, Lord ...

WTF???

Because we can't EXPECT "COMPETENT" leadership from our GOV???

 

[there4eyeM]

oh, Lord ...

WTF???

Because we can't EXPECT "COMPETENT" leadership from our GOV???

We SHOULD be able to expect it, but recent history should teach us that we cannot reasonably do so. The practice of government in the US does not coincide with the spirit of the Constitution, but improvement can only come from 'grass roots', informed, thinking citizens.

 

[P@triot]

While Jefferson supported the idea of public education, he would not have placed schools under government supervision. Instead, he argued for the placement of “each school at once under the care of those most interested in its conduct.” He would put parents in charge.

"But if it is believed that these elementary schools will be better managed by…[any] general authority of the government, than by the parents within each ward, it is a belief against all experience.… No, my friend, the way to have good and safe government, is not to trust it all to one, but to divide it among the many, distributing to every one exactly the functions he is competent to."

Government = failure (it's an undeniable fact)

Which is exactly what we have, Rott. 20,000 different school systems. Not one run by government, but 20,000 unique school districts run by local citizens.

You're bitching about something that clearly you know absolutely nothing about.

Of that's the case, then why do we have a "Department of Education" run by the federal government?

Epic Fail Editec

 

[P@triot]

The concept of local oversight of local affairs is great. However, as many in these threads often insist, this country is a republic, not a direct democracy, so minorities are protected. When it was seen that 'local' meant 'segregated', something had to be done. Any such action is unfortunate, but what is more unfortunate is that 'local' didn't work because 'locals' weren't good 'republicans'.

Where in the hell is the logic in that? Are you under the impression that the federal government is some pure entity which cannot possibly be corrupt, racist, deceitful, etc.?

Last time I checked, Obama and attorney general Eric Holder were as racist and divisive as anyone is U.S. political history - local or federal.

Is the understanding of English so woefully lacking?

What was used was a historical example. Local school districts locally run are a great democratic concept. However, at a point in American history this did not work in a human fashion and, very unfortunately, demanded redress. It is lamentable that the federal government had to get involved, but the alternatives were not apparent. Thus, the reference to (small 'r') republican processes as compared with (small 'd') direct democracy.

Is that clear, or can someone now interpret my post as pro-communist or something?

It isn't a matter of being "clear" - it's a matter of being insane. You have absolutely nothing to back up your absurd "historical example". You literally just made that shit up as you went along.

Furthermore, the federal government could have over seen the "segregation" issue without overseeing education. Just because they had to get involved in a very few cases where a district would not comply Brown vs. Board of Education, doesn't mean they needed to create an unconstitutional Department of Education

 

[fyrenza]

We SHOULD be able to expect it, but recent history should teach us that we cannot reasonably do so. The practice of government in the US does not coincide with the spirit of the Constitution, but improvement can only come from 'grass roots', informed, thinking citizens.

And yet, we can't just overthrow our gov ...

What to do, what to DO???

Our (supposed) votes don't count for squat;
our voices to our representatives are just background noise;
and because more than half of the citizenry are uninformed and/or mislead/lied to by mainstream media,
we're at a loss.

Or are we?

Money talks. Heard that before?
"Money Talks; Bullshit Walks"

We CAN "speak" with our money/resources,
not the least of which is our LABOR.

We could refuse to buy from slave-labor nations;
we could hold our money as gold and silver and vegetables and live-stock and arms and OWNING where we sit;
we could wish everyone the very best of luck with THEIR alien ideology invasions on their nations;

but we don't.

We just relax the muscles/brain tissues and accept the rape.

 

[P@triot]

Which is exactly what we have, Rott. 20,000 different school systems. Not one run by government, but 20,000 unique school districts run by local citizens.

You're bitching about something that clearly you know absolutely nothing about.

We do? Really? Then how do you explain the $130 billion per year for the Department of Education?

Looks like you are the one bitching about something that you clearly know absolutely nothing about.

 

[there4eyeM]

Where in the hell is the logic in that? Are you under the impression that the federal government is some pure entity which cannot possibly be corrupt, racist, deceitful, etc.?

Last time I checked, Obama and attorney general Eric Holder were as racist and divisive as anyone is U.S. political history - local or federal.

Is the understanding of English so woefully lacking?

What was used was a historical example. Local school districts locally run are a great democratic concept. However, at a point in American history this did not work in a human fashion and, very unfortunately, demanded redress. It is lamentable that the federal government had to get involved, but the alternatives were not apparent. Thus, the reference to (small 'r') republican processes as compared with (small 'd') direct democracy.

Is that clear, or can someone now interpret my post as pro-communist or something?

It isn't a matter of being "clear" - it's a matter of being insane. You have absolutely nothing to back up your absurd "historical example". You literally just made that shit up as you went along.

Furthermore, the federal government could have over seen the "segregation" issue without overseeing education. Just because they had to get involved in a very few cases where a district would not comply Brown vs. Board of Education, doesn't mean they needed to create an unconstitutional Department of Education

I would that segregation and racism had only been something I made up (though I never would have). Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree that such practices were (and are) inhuman and wrong.

 

[there4eyeM]

We SHOULD be able to expect it, but recent history should teach us that we cannot reasonably do so. The practice of government in the US does not coincide with the spirit of the Constitution, but improvement can only come from 'grass roots', informed, thinking citizens.

And yet, we can't just overthrow our gov ...

What to do, what to DO???

Our (supposed) votes don't count for squat;
our voices to our representatives are just background noise;
and because more than half of the citizenry are uninformed and/or mislead/lied to by mainstream media,
we're at a loss.

Or are we?

Money talks. Heard that before?
"Money Talks; Bullshit Walks"

We CAN "speak" with our money/resources,
not the least of which is our LABOR.

We could refuse to buy from slave-labor nations;
we could hold our money as gold and silver and vegetables and live-stock and arms and OWNING where we sit;
we could wish everyone the very best of luck with THEIR alien ideology invasions on their nations;

but we don't.

We just relax the muscles/brain tissues and accept the rape.

Whatever the solution may be, armed conflict certainly will not work.

 

[P@triot]

I would that segregation and racism had only been something I made up (though I never would have). Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree that such practices were (and are) inhuman and wrong.

Way to dodge the issue rather than admit you really reached in an attempt to justify that which cannot be justified.

Where did I say I disagree with the federal government enforcing Brown vs. Board of Education? I was very clear - they could have enforced the laws of integration without taking over education. You know I'm right on this.

 

[fyrenza]

Whatever the solution may be, armed conflict certainly will not work.

ARMS are the LAST RESORT of anyone with two brain cells to rub together ~

we don't WANT to kill each other;

we're fucking BROTHERS, here.

But if you go crazy and act like some rabid animal?

We can't let you feed off of us/US.

That's just How It Is.

 

[P@triot]

Whatever the solution may be, armed conflict certainly will not work.

ARMS are the LAST RESORT of anyone with two brain cells to rub together ~

we don't WANT to kill each other;

we're fucking BROTHERS, here.

But if you go crazy and act like some rabid animal?

We can't let you feed off of us/US.

That's just How It Is.

I must respectfully disagree here. I am not "brothers" with anti-constitutional, pro-communist assholes that want to destroy the United States.

 

[editec]

Which is exactly what we have, Rott. 20,000 different school systems. Not one run by government, but 20,000 unique school districts run by local citizens.

You're bitching about something that clearly you know absolutely nothing about.

We do? Really? Then how do you explain the $130 billion per year for the Department of Education?

That's a pittance (less than 10%) compared to what the LOCAL & STATE GOVERNMENTS spend, lad.

Looks like you are the one bitching about something that you clearly know absolutely nothing about.

Only to someone like you, amigo, some who doesn't do his research to support his POV

FYI

The local government pays about 44% of the cost of ED in the USA

The States pays about 47% of the total cost

The FEDERAL government pays about 10%



Ya get it yet?

Education is paid for and controlled by STATE and LOCAL governments, mostly.

And it was not until BUSH II insinuated the FEDERAL government into education that anybody had to worry about a SINGLE UNIFIED EDUCATI"ONAL SY"STEM.

the very thing that YOU are bitching about, is something that BUSH II did.

Not obama, lad, Bush II.

No child left in schools is a REPUBLICAN concept where the FEDERAL government takes control of ALL educational systems via TESTING.

You lad, are so fucking ignorant, that you are supporting the VERY PARTY that is responsible for the very thing that you most FEAR in education.

You need to EDUCATE YOURSELF, lad.

You are being duped by your affection for the GOP.

 

[Sallow]

I'm in awe of our founders.
That they STUDIED, and conversed, and did their very best to think of every eventuality,
even to the point of LIMITING their power, knowing what corruption could, and would, bring.

But, HEY! It's just some ideals that this country was built upon,
and it's so dangerous out there, all by ourselves, that we need PARENTS,
even after we're all grown up,
to tell us what, and how, and when, and where,
and most particularly, WHY.
And to be "safe," well, dang, we'll accept a little, or a LOT of, corruption, 'cuz THAT's how we wanna roll!

We watch, as EVERY OTHER "system" of government falls,
and instead of GRABBING hold of what makes us/US impervious to those disasters,
we rush out and try to incorporate them into our WORKING system,
that DOES value each and every one of us/US,
as much as WE "value" ourselves.

I'm glad that I'm old, for all of this,
because I can be Front Lines, expendable firepower for the civil war,
or just long gone for the denouement of all of this idiocy.

I too am in awe of our founders. And do you know why they had such remarkable foresight? Because they lived under tyranny. They experienced the stifling oppression and realized that nothing was worth trading freedom for and they realized what leads to tyranny.

Today we're a nation of ungrateful, spoiled brats. So many in our country will trade their rights and freedoms for government table scraps - just so they don't have to work or be expected to exhibit personal responsibility. Why do you think our founders left out "universal healthcare" as a right? That wasn't by accident...

No you're not. You are in awe of cherry picked cartoon characters that have very little resemblance to the actually men that wrote the constitution. These were complicate and complex people that argued with each other and changed their opinions multiple times. I mean are you even aware that Hamilton and Jefferson were bitter rivals? Or that Jefferson started adopting the principles of "big government" once he was in the White House?

There wasn't any "Universal Health Care" because the founders thought it was "socialism". There wasn't any "Universal Health Care" because there was barely a system of health care in this country at the time. There were parts of the country where you either drank beer or tea, because the water was so bad..it would kill you.

The Constitution back then, and now..is still a work in Progress..and not a stone tablet.

THAT'S what you folks will never get.

 

[Sallow]

Whatever the solution may be, armed conflict certainly will not work.

ARMS are the LAST RESORT of anyone with two brain cells to rub together ~

we don't WANT to kill each other;

we're fucking BROTHERS, here.

But if you go crazy and act like some rabid animal?

We can't let you feed off of us/US.

That's just How It Is.

Bullshit.

You folks are always talking about armed conflict.

And as the Whiskey Rebellion and Civil War proves out, conservatives are more then happy to slaughter their fellow Americans.

 

[Sallow]

I would that segregation and racism had only been something I made up (though I never would have). Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree that such practices were (and are) inhuman and wrong.

Way to dodge the issue rather than admit you really reached in an attempt to justify that which cannot be justified.

Where did I say I disagree with the federal government enforcing Brown vs. Board of Education? I was very clear - they could have enforced the laws of integration without taking over education. You know I'm right on this.

No you most definitely are not. Even today conservatives are putting up ridiculous laws pertaining to education that have to be reversed by the federal government.