How to end the UAW strike

[sealybobo]

First of all dumbshit, it is more than $30K a year but if you want to believe that lie then go ahead. Second, if stupid Moon Bats like you are upset that a car company doesn't pay its workers what idiots like you think they should get then just don't buy a vehicle from them. Problem solved.

Just like I don't like the filthy ass UAW being the cash cow for the despicable Democrat Party so I don't buy any vehicle made by them.

1. Google what line workers make. Don't factor in the executives pay and come up with some higher number. Line workers in the south make under $30K. UNDER!

2. I don't actually like it that these guys make as much as I do when I have a college degree. But it makes for a better middle class/country when these Red Neck White Trash Blue Collar guys are paid well. It stimulates the economy. Where your way the CEO gets all the profits and these workers will never be able to retire. They will NEED their social security. Which you tell them won't be there when they are set to retire.

 

[hadit]

How to end the UAW strike.
One of the biggest arguments the union workers have is top management has received 40% increases in compensation recently, why shouldn't we.
A good point.
I say reduce the management compensation to the same levels currently being offered the union workers.

Cut management compensation increase union workers.

You could take 40% off the top executives and end up giving the tens of thousands of workers a $50 raise. That'll make a huge difference </sarcasm>. Let's face reality, low-skilled labor is not going to increase in value any time soon because of three factors:

1. It can be done by anyone anywhere in the world, and there are places where people gladly work very cheap. It's cheaper to have them do the work and ship the goods than to do it in America.
2. Machines are rapidly getting to the point where they will take over virtually all such jobs, doing them better, faster, cheaper, without any drama and they don't take breaks.
3. The consumers have gotten accustomed to being able to get cheap goods that are manufactured by very cheap labor and would rebel if they had to pay true American labor prices.

Gone forever are the days when a man could drop out of school, work for 40 years in the factory or on the assembly line with his wife at home, send his kids to college, retire at 65 and take it easy for 20 years on a big pension.

 

[Blaster]

They pay pro athletes millions of dollars but American workers not so much.

 

[sealybobo]

You could take 40% off the top executives and end up giving the tens of thousands of workers a $50 raise. That'll make a huge difference </sarcasm>. Let's face reality, low-skilled labor is not going to increase in value any time soon because of three factors:

1. It can be done by anyone anywhere in the world, and there are places where people gladly work very cheap. It's cheaper to have them do the work and ship the goods than to do it in America.
2. Machines are rapidly getting to the point where they will take over virtually all such jobs, doing them better, faster, cheaper, without any drama and they don't take breaks.
3. The consumers have gotten accustomed to being able to get cheap goods that are manufactured by very cheap labor and would rebel if they had to pay true American labor prices.

Gone forever are the days when a man could drop out of school, work for 40 years in the factory or on the assembly line with his wife at home, send his kids to college, retire at 65 and take it easy for 20 years on a big pension.

Honestly, if I were them, I'd insist on the 32 hour workweek thing but I'd take the 20% the Big 3 are offering. I really like the 32 hour work week thing. Us Americans work too hard. And with automation, is it really necessary to make some guy who only makes $30,000 a year work 40 hours? Is this really the best humanity can do?

I hope all these blue collar people have a lot less kids because in the future their kids will not want to get a job where their parents work. And they won't be able to afford college. IDK. feels like the dumbing down of America while the rich get richer.

I can't wait in 10 years when we start telling everyone they/we/I might have to take a 20-30% cut to our social security in order to "save" the program. And Republicans will blame Democrats for it.

 

[hadit]

1. Google what line workers make. Don't factor in the executives pay and come up with some higher number. Line workers in the south make under $30K. UNDER!

And they won't make more unless you can find a way to:

1. Impose tariffs on foreign produced goods that will further impoverish foreign workers and jack up prices on the poor here.
2. Prevent machines from doing the work better, faster, and cheaper.

Seriously, that's what you're up against here.

2. I don't actually like it that these guys make as much as I do when I have a college degree. But it makes for a better middle class/country when these Red Neck White Trash Blue Collar guys are paid well. It stimulates the economy. Where your way the CEO gets all the profits and these workers will never be able to retire. They will NEED their social security. Which you tell them won't be there when they are set to retire.

Yes, we agree that workers should be paid a fair wage. They do, however, need to provide a corresponding value for that wage, it cannot be simply imposed by fiat. And that applies to CEO's as well. If they don't provide value for the millions they're paid, they're out. The average tenure for an American CEO is just under 5 years, which means a lot of them are getting bounced out of their jobs on a regular basis.

Now, you cite redneck white trash blue collar guys. What value do they provide that justifies a higher wage and correspondingly higher prices when their jobs can be done for far less in Indonesia and the goods shipped back here, or for less by a machine that does the job better, more reliably, more efficiently, doesn't take breaks, sick days or vacations and doesn't demand a pension and health insurance?

We know what happens when government arbitrarily sets wages. It never ends well.

The future trend that will likely hit a lot sooner than we expect is for fewer and fewer low-skilled jobs to exist, especially in developed countries. I don't see a way to avoid that minus a catastrophe that destroys civilization.

 

[hadit]

Honestly, if I were them, I'd insist on the 32 hour workweek thing but I'd take the 20% the Big 3 are offering. I really like the 32 hour work week thing. Us Americans work too hard. And with automation, is it really necessary to make some guy who only makes $30,000 a year work 40 hours? Is this really the best humanity can do?

We do need to shift from hours worked to productivity as a measure of compensation. Take two workers doing the same job, getting paid the same hourly rate. Worker A gets his work done in 4 hours while worker B takes 8 hours to do the same work. Guess what happens when management sees worker A is done in half the time? He gets more work to do at the same pay while worker B doesn't. That's what happens when a union forces a company to pay everybody the same rate whether they're good at the job or not.

I hope all these blue collar people have a lot less kids because in the future their kids will not want to get a job where their parents work. And they won't be able to afford college. IDK. feels like the dumbing down of America while the rich get richer.

That's already happening. The developed world has largely dropped below replacement rate. Japan, for example, is feeling the pinch with an aging population and fewer young people to replace and take care of them. The only reason America isn't feeling it yet is because we have a higher immigration rate than Japan does.

I can't wait in 10 years when we start telling everyone they/we/I might have to take a 20-30% cut to our social security in order to "save" the program. And Republicans will blame Democrats for it.

And democrats will blame Republicans for it as well. You know that. They're both afraid to raise SS taxes and cut benefits, and rightly so. You think union workers are a voting force, seniors vote in very large numbers and don't want anyone messing with their SS.

 

[Papageorgio]

Everything I have said about unions, labor, how Republicans are anti labor, all that. You will see now everything I said was true.

President Biden Speaks In Support Of Striking Auto Workers

“Those record profits have not been shared fairly, in my view, with those workers," he said.

www.huffpost.com

Republicans attack unions and when they do they attack labor.

When they say MAGA, who are they talking about? Are they talking about the people who got rich when unions didn't exist or are they talking about middle class people? Because America was greatest for the middle class when 35% of workers in America belonged to unions. Today it's about 9%

Says the guy that has never belonged to a union.

 

[sealybobo]

Says the guy that has never belonged to a union.

I did once. I was a summer worker at this tier 3 supplier. Between my freshman and sophomore year. What a joke. The owner had them unionized so he could do business with the Big 3. Otherwise they wouldn't do business with him. But his union was a joke. Those guys made $5 hr. What a joke!

Not all unions are created equal. Now compare them to my dad. Overtime pay, double time, triple time on holidays, profit sharing, $3 copay, great benefits, pensions for workers as long as you've been there at least 10 years.

I lived in a union house my friend. And I compare my dad, a guy who didn't even finish college, with me, a guy who has a college degree. And I'm single no kids. 52 years old. I should have twice as much as my father. He only worked 20 years at Ford. And my mom worked at a hospital for 20 years. High school grad. Together they both retired before or when they were 62 and my dad is worth $800,000.

Compare that to me. I'm 52 and I have to work another 10-13 years. Probably 13 because I won't be able to afford insurance. My dad didn't need to worry about that. Great benefits working for the Big 3 back then. Anyways, if I have to work till 65, my dad beat me by like 10 years. And when I retire I'll have more than him but with inflation, will I really?

If I would have gone to Ford when I graduated from highschool, like my dad thought I was going to do, I would have had a 30 year pension 5 years ago. This is what made the greatest middle class the world had ever seen.

But hey. Now that my dad is retired and neither I or my nephews are blue collar, I too want to send all those jobs to Alabama where they only pay $28,000 a year. IF it will lower the price of cars. Because I'm selfish too.

 

[JohnDB]

I did once. I was a summer worker at this tier 3 supplier. Between my freshman and sophomore year. What a joke. The owner had them unionized so he could do business with the Big 3. Otherwise they wouldn't do business with him. But his union was a joke. Those guys made $5 hr. What a joke!

Not all unions are created equal. Now compare them to my dad. Overtime pay, double time, triple time on holidays, profit sharing, $3 copay, great benefits, pensions for workers as long as you've been there at least 10 years.

I lived in a union house my friend. And I compare my dad, a guy who didn't even finish college, with me, a guy who has a college degree. And I'm single no kids. 52 years old. I should have twice as much as my father. He only worked 20 years at Ford. And my mom worked at a hospital for 20 years. High school grad. Together they both retired before or when they were 62 and my dad is worth $800,000.

Compare that to me. I'm 52 and I have to work another 10-13 years. Probably 13 because I won't be able to afford insurance. My dad didn't need to worry about that. Great benefits working for the Big 3 back then. Anyways, if I have to work till 65, my dad beat me by like 10 years. And when I retire I'll have more than him but with inflation, will I really?

If I would have gone to Ford when I graduated from highschool, like my dad thought I was going to do, I would have had a 30 year pension 5 years ago. This is what made the greatest middle class the world had ever seen.

But hey. Now that my dad is retired and neither I or my nephews are blue collar, I too want to send all those jobs to Alabama where they only pay $28,000 a year. IF it will lower the price of cars. Because I'm selfish too.

The thing about vehicles is that the robots can assemble them better, faster, and more efficiently than humans can.

I didn't think so until I seen it in action.

From the bucks to the door internals it was amazing how they really did a great job. (Door internals are currently done by a person I think in most plants...but they don't have to be)

Cars are also custom ordered and manufactured for color and options. They don't just build spec vehicles anymore...they could but don't. That VIN is linked to a huge database that knows everything about your vehicle including maintenance, options, and engine performance...even if you replace the engine. (Necessity after 200k miles)

The logistics of car mfg is the only difficult part anymore. Getting the electronic parts, harnesses, tools, and interiors all lined up ready to install is the herculean feat. Which is why most of that is done by subcontractors who don't have to be union. It helps but not if there isn't a union company to do the work.

 

[sealybobo]

May

The thing about vehicles is that the robots can assemble them better, faster, and more efficiently than humans can.

I didn't think so until I seen it in action.

From the bucks to the door internals it was amazing how they really did a great job. (Door internals are currently done by a person I think in most plants...but they don't have to be)

Cars are also custom ordered and manufactured for color and options. They don't just build spec vehicles anymore...they could but don't. That VIN is linked to a huge database that knows everything about your vehicle including maintenance, options, and engine performance...even if you replace the engine. (Necessity after 200k miles)

The logistics of car mfg is the only difficult part anymore. Getting the electronic parts, harnesses, tools, and interiors all lined up ready to install is the herculean feat. Which is why most of that is done by subcontractors who don't have to be union. It helps but not if there isn't a union company to do the work.

Automation is predicted to displace 20 million manufacturing jobs by 2030. The US is home to 310,700 industrial robots, and that number increases by at least 40,000 each year. Automation has the potential to eliminate 73 million US jobs by 2030, which would equate to a staggering 46% of the current jobs.

Maybe it's a good thing we are having fewer children.

 

[hadit]

I did once. I was a summer worker at this tier 3 supplier. Between my freshman and sophomore year. What a joke. The owner had them unionized so he could do business with the Big 3. Otherwise they wouldn't do business with him. But his union was a joke. Those guys made $5 hr. What a joke!

Not all unions are created equal. Now compare them to my dad. Overtime pay, double time, triple time on holidays, profit sharing, $3 copay, great benefits, pensions for workers as long as you've been there at least 10 years.

I lived in a union house my friend. And I compare my dad, a guy who didn't even finish college, with me, a guy who has a college degree. And I'm single no kids. 52 years old. I should have twice as much as my father. He only worked 20 years at Ford. And my mom worked at a hospital for 20 years. High school grad. Together they both retired before or when they were 62 and my dad is worth $800,000.

Compare that to me. I'm 52 and I have to work another 10-13 years. Probably 13 because I won't be able to afford insurance. My dad didn't need to worry about that. Great benefits working for the Big 3 back then. Anyways, if I have to work till 65, my dad beat me by like 10 years. And when I retire I'll have more than him but with inflation, will I really?

If I would have gone to Ford when I graduated from highschool, like my dad thought I was going to do, I would have had a 30 year pension 5 years ago. This is what made the greatest middle class the world had ever seen.

But hey. Now that my dad is retired and neither I or my nephews are blue collar, I too want to send all those jobs to Alabama where they only pay $28,000 a year. IF it will lower the price of cars. Because I'm selfish too.

Now all we need is another world war that leaves all the other manufacturing powerhouses decimated and us the big dog on the block again. Minus that, it's not coming back.

 

[JohnDB]

May

Automation is predicted to displace 20 million manufacturing jobs by 2030. The US is home to 310,700 industrial robots, and that number increases by at least 40,000 each year. Automation has the potential to eliminate 73 million US jobs by 2030, which would equate to a staggering 46% of the current jobs.

Maybe it's a good thing we are having fewer children.

What this means is that we need more people who are knowledgeable about motor controls and the logic systems necessary to operate the robots...because all moving machinery breaks down.

However, the pool to hire these electricians from is shrinking. Electricians (like me) only look stupid...we actually are good at applying mathematics and logic systems to functional systems that can do the actual repetitive tasks.
Unless the young adults of today understand mathematics and logic...it doesn't matter what a handful of engineers can develop...you have to have an implementation team that vastly outnumbers the engineers. And that pool is shrinking.
This is scary stuff because you have guys with poor English skills that are taking direction from guys with poor communication skills and no math skills whatsoever. (A recipe for disaster)

I've seen fire dampers work once during testing but then failed to operate afterwards because someone ordered the wrong switches that couldn't handle the amperage and they all fried. That's the kind of scary stuff happening.

 

[Hum Dinger]

How to end the UAW strike.
One of the biggest arguments the union workers have is top management has received 40% increases in compensation recently, why shouldn't we.
A good point.
I say reduce the management compensation to the same levels currently being offered the union workers.

Cut management compensation increase union workers.

"Reduce Management Compensation"

HELL NO!!!

Fire the entire executive staff and distribute their compensation to the workers!!!!

Executives are totally useless in any company!

 

[Hum Dinger]

LOL. You are delusional. This is going to end by workers getting a 20% raise and the price of all cars will go up 20%, hurting the poor and minorities the most. Do you guys ever learn economics?

If prices go up by 20%, sales will drop and profits with it.

GM cars will not be competitive with better quality cars at the same price (like Subaru)

Executives whose compensation depends on performance will take a hit. Workers will be layed off.

If GM is to stay competitive they must retain low price tags.

In the end it's the Executives that are going to have to take the hit.

 

[hadit]

"Reduce Management Compensation"

HELL NO!!!

Fire the entire executive staff and distribute their compensation to the workers!!!!

Executives are totally useless in any company!

In a typical large company, the workers would get maybe 50 bucks because there are so many of them compared to management. I find it amusing that you can actually pretend that executives add nothing to a company. Take them away and the company falls apart.

 

[Jarlaxle]

The thing about vehicles is that the robots can assemble them better, faster, and more efficiently than humans can.

I didn't think so until I seen it in action.

From the bucks to the door internals it was amazing how they really did a great job. (Door internals are currently done by a person I think in most plants...but they don't have to be)

Cars are also custom ordered and manufactured for color and options. They don't just build spec vehicles anymore...they could but don't. That VIN is linked to a huge database that knows everything about your vehicle including maintenance, options, and engine performance...even if you replace the engine. (Necessity after 200k miles)

The logistics of car mfg is the only difficult part anymore. Getting the electronic parts, harnesses, tools, and interiors all lined up ready to install is the herculean feat. Which is why most of that is done by subcontractors who don't have to be union. It helps but not if there isn't a union company to do the work.

That's gibberish. In fact, it is the OPPOSITE of reality: car options have been greatly reduced, as have colors-the days of picking from a long list of features has been gone for decades.

If prices go up by 20%, sales will drop and profits with it.

GM cars will not be competitive with better quality cars at the same price (like Subaru)

Executives whose compensation depends on performance will take a hit. Workers will be layed off.

If GM is to stay competitive they must retain low price tags.

In the end it's the Executives that are going to have to take the hit.

Or move manufacturing to China.

 

[Hum Dinger]

In a typical large company, the workers would get maybe 50 bucks because there are so many of them compared to management. I find it amusing that you can actually pretend that executives add nothing to a company. Take them away and the company falls apart.

B.S.

I've worked for a large global corp. that went over a year without a CEO. If anything we worked beeter.

Executives are all pomp and circumstance. No substance. Their administrative assistants do all the real work.

 

[Hum Dinger]

That's gibberish. In fact, it is the OPPOSITE of reality: car options have been greatly reduced, as have colors-the days of picking from a long list of features has been gone for decades.


Or move manufacturing to China.

GM quality is low enough as is. Moving to China would be the end of GM.

 

[DudleySmith]

UAW workers here average $13-$19 an hour, which isn't even minimum wage if it were adjusted for real inflation. X1.40 that is $18.20/hr. to $26.60/hour, hardly 'outrageous' and still below minimum wage adjusted for real inflation. On the other hand all the stock market gamblers love the giant subsidies and outright gifts of cash by the Fed, state, and local govts. to buyers that add a lot to their dividend checks and prop up their stock prices at taxpayers' expenses. Corporate welfare for the parasites is fine, it's only bad when it feeds working class stiffs. The latter are supposed to work for free and be grateful for adding bux to parasites' pockets who contribute absolutely nothing to the company nor the real economy.

 

[Independent thinker]

If prices go up by 20%, sales will drop and profits with it.

GM cars will not be competitive with better quality cars at the same price (like Subaru)

Executives whose compensation depends on performance will take a hit. Workers will be layed off.

If GM is to stay competitive they must retain low price tags.

In the end it's the Executives that are going to have to take the hit.

Seems like that is exactly what Trump is warning would happen.