How we know Hitler was right wing.

[bripat9643]

You need to take a course in civics. The checks and balances our founders created in the government they created will never allow a Hitler in America. It can't happen. And Obama is not a Hitler.

Those checks and balance may have slowed movement in that direction, but they haven't stopped it altogether. In fact, Congress routinely ignores the Constitution when it passes legislation, and Obama routinely ignores the Constitution as well.

 

[westwall]

By all means learn to read yourself. If you were the normal citizen living in Russia or Germany at that time there WAS NO DIFFERENCE. Do you get that? Lefties claim that Stalin was a lefty and they claim that Hitler was a rightie. Do you understand that there is only collectivism and individualist governmental types? That's it! As Oddball says you guys are arguing about shades of pink....BUT THEY'RE STILL PINK!

I beg to differ. There is a difference, but in their zeal to smear the right by labeling Nazis "right-wing," the pinko intellectuals have been doing everything in their power to obscure the difference. If you believe in the institutions of private property, free exchange and limited government, you're a right winger. If you believe government should make all major business decisions, then you are a left-winger. Hitler clearly falls into the later camp.

I look at governmental systems based on how they treat the individual. In both cases the supposed left wing Russia and the right wing Germany the individual was valued only as a cog in the engine of the State. Ergo both governmental systems are fundamentally the same.

 

[beagle9]

The thread is entirely ridiculous, how anyone can paint Hitler, left or right is beyond me. He took many different stands and molded it into a disgusting government. But he used political agendas from conservatives and progressives and perverted it all.

Now we are on to claiming how Obama is like Hitler, which is entirely stupid.

Only partisans that have an agenda would think Hitler was right or left, that Obama or Bush was like Hitler.

The stupidity of some of you is just nuts.

Why is it entirely stupid ? If he begins doing the things in his politics that Hitler began doing (perverting everything left and right in usery there of), and doing this to muddy the waters so we can't keep up or pin-point what he is up to at all times, then is it not wise to look at the attributes and actions of a leader in order to possibly understand where his politics might be leading him and us in the process ? What happened to Obama's claim as to become one of the most transparent governments we would know under his leadership ? Was Hitler transparent ?

 

[Papageorgio]

The thread is entirely ridiculous, how anyone can paint Hitler, left or right is beyond me. He took many different stands and molded it into a disgusting government. But he used political agendas from conservatives and progressives and perverted it all.

Now we are on to claiming how Obama is like Hitler, which is entirely stupid.

Only partisans that have an agenda would think Hitler was right or left, that Obama or Bush was like Hitler.

The stupidity of some of you is just nuts.

Why is it entirely stupid ? If he begins doing the things in his politics that Hitler began doing (perverting everything left and right in usery there of), and doing this to muddy the waters so we can't keep up or pin-point what he is up to at all times, then is it not wise to look at the attributes and actions of a leader in order to possibly understand where his politics might be leading him and us in the process ? What happened to Obama's claim as to become one of the most transparent governments we would know under his leadership ? Was Hitler transparent ?

Because Obama, as much as I dislike the guy, is not close to a Hitler. It isn't just him that keeps playing the left vs. right card, it has been going on for years.

Every politician makes promises they never keep or intend to keep, transparency was one of those and I stated it from the get go.

Hitler wasn't transparent, neither is Obama and neither was Bush.

Trying to compare the last two Presidents to Hitler is just plain stupid.

 

[Pogo]

You try to be an intellectual poster here, but your leftist feelings getting hurt just sent you into la la land with this reply. I had the contents of Hitler in the post, and I also am speaking about attributes found in leaders in comparison to others in policy making or leanings they may have, and as to whether or not leaders have specific attributes in comparison to the Hitler's of the world, along with their policy making. Why don't you intellectually answer my post with an intelligent historical in comparison answer, instead of with the dribble you just wrote out of desperation because your leftist feelings got hurt?

It's got nothing to do with "feelings" -- the topic is not about Obama, period. What you were trying to derail to was clear, so I called it what it is. Same as those bogus "25 points" I called out last night for the bogus base of reasoning it is. When your reasoning is flawed, I'm going to say so.

So diga me-- who are "the Hitlers of the world"?? Is a Hitler something you can just pick up at the 7-11?

The Hitler's of the world are those who are found to have attributes or personality traits that could be more than the percentage than we would want to find in a leader or person having such traits or characteristics within them. Not something one could pick up at the seven-11, but is rather something that is born within you or something you become depending on your teachings in life.

The question was rhetorically sarcastic. Hitler isn't just a label you slap onto anything you differ with. Hitler is an extreme, and we would hope, a unique one. Comparing whoever's in office right now to Hitler is not only Godwinian, it's a direct insult to those who suffered under his insanity.

- - - - - - - - -

The thread is entirely ridiculous, how anyone can paint Hitler, left or right is beyond me. He took many different stands and molded it into a disgusting government. But he used political agendas from conservatives and progressives and perverted it all.

Now we are on to claiming how Obama is like Hitler, which is entirely stupid.

Only partisans that have an agenda would think Hitler was right or left, that Obama or Bush was like Hitler.

The stupidity of some of you is just nuts.

Agreed.

Again, what Hitler was above all else was authoritarian. Whether he arrived there from the left or the right is entirely secondary. None of this thread is for the purpose of painting the right as anything; rather, it's here to undo the naked attempt to paint the left in Godwinian Brown.

Funny how some think they have the right to dish out revisionist history and endless torrents of blanket insults (1, [URL="http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/284408-how-we-know-hitler-was-right-wing-33.html#post6994673"]2[/URL]) --- and then get all in a huff when their revision gets rejected for the transparent folly it is.

 

[Pogo]

The thread is entirely ridiculous, how anyone can paint Hitler, left or right is beyond me. He took many different stands and molded it into a disgusting government. But he used political agendas from conservatives and progressives and perverted it all.

Now we are on to claiming how Obama is like Hitler, which is entirely stupid.

Only partisans that have an agenda would think Hitler was right or left, that Obama or Bush was like Hitler.

The stupidity of some of you is just nuts.

Why is it entirely stupid ? If he begins doing the things in his politics that Hitler began doing (perverting everything left and right in usery there of), and doing this to muddy the waters so we can't keep up or pin-point what he is up to at all times, then is it not wise to look at the attributes and actions of a leader in order to possibly understand where his politics might be leading him and us in the process ? What happened to Obama's claim as to become one of the most transparent governments we would know under his leadership ? Was Hitler transparent ?

If this is your standard of comparison, here ya go:

Given: Hitler loved dogs.
Given: as a child in Indonesia, O'bama ate dog.
Therefore: Obama ≠ Hitler.

Sometimes ya just gotta speak in the vernacular of the reader.

 

[ima]

Hitler was on drugs, so it's a wonder that he accomplished what he did. When I do drugs, I can't find my shoes.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The point is that only socialists need to try to differentiate "left" socialism from "right" socialism.

Fact remains that they are the same authoritarian central planner shit wrapped in different toilet paper.

You want to pick flecks of pepper out of those piles of shit and make big scholarly observations about their minute differences in color and grain, that's your time to waste.

I'm very glad this came up - maybe I should have addressed it in the OP.

I am not a socialist, and couldn't give a shit what socialists think. Actually, I don't much care what anyone who wants to re-write history thinks.

I am fascinated by this topic purely and simply because I love history. Facts are facts.

Anyone who denies that thugs like Stalin, Mao, Lenin, Castro, Ceacescu, Xoxha and Tito were left wing is wrong. It is as simple as that.

The left needs to own it, and teach it.

Anyone who denies that thugs like Antonescu, Franco, Pinochet and Hitler were right right wing is wrong. It is as simple as that.

The right needs to own it, and teach it.

And ask yourself - which side on this board are denying those lists?

I deny all of that, politics is not one dimensional.

Ask yourself this, who on this board is finding it impossible to admit that he is wrong?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

BriPat -

Do you think it is coincidence that the posters who deny Hitler are right wing are also the posters who simply refuse outright to read?

In the time you spent posting absolute gibberish on this thread, you could have read a book on a topic you claim to be interested in, and learnt enought to post sensibly on the topic.

I find it amazing that the poster that argues hardest that Hitler is right wing is the one who refuses to admit the material he posted clearly contradicts his assessment. I also find it amusing that, even after said poster had the facts shoved down his threat, he still fails to acknowledge that his argument, which boils down to everyone says it, hs been utterly demolished by numerous examples of people who do not say it.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

"Using the wealthy" is meaningless. Obama uses the wealthy. Is he a right-winger? Being wealthy doesn't make you a right-winger as examples like Soros and Buffet make emphatically clear.

Yes, if anything could Obama be just as wise or could he be driven to become as brilliantly insane as Hitler was possibly, in which could make him just as dangerous as Hitler was possibly ? This nation if not careful about what he is capable of himself while in power (i.e. best keep a sharp eye out on this one maybe), could possibly travel down some deep dark roads as well during his 8 year run. So far his ability to have many gravitate towards him regardless of his past is noteworthy, especially after all that is known about him so far, yet he still charms the vote out of them with his slickness and demeanor as is used, and for many these days it is all that is needed, just a simple smile & handshake and their done. He has a persuasion about him in this way with the masses, and Hitler also had this persuasion about himself as well did he not? So how are they different still yet I wonder ? Could it be that Obama has the same attributes possibly, but looks through his glass favoring a different set of circumstances and people as being dealt with now, and is he the same in his favoritisms as Hitler was, thus becoming popular in the same ways with certain people just as Hitler had become ? Looking back at history can usually allow us to compare the attributes, demeanors, characteristics of a leader, and make ourselves aware of those who will rise again in character in which could easily be found yet again within them, and at any given time in history. History has a way "always" of repeating itself, and as long as there are nations struggling, and people warring with each other be it within and/or without, economies struggling, resources becoming scarce, the poor being looked upon as pariah's, the wealthy becoming to greedy and controlling with most of the wealth, governments becoming to greedy in taxation along with other bogus revenue drawing needs, it could easily give rise to another tyrant/dictator once again in the world (even in America this could happen), therefore causing history to repeat itself yet again and again if not careful.

What is the best comparison so far to Obama, as to be found when looking back in history now at the various leaders around the world, or is it to early to tell yet ? In the twenty five stated Nazi policies I read here, I see a lot of Obama in those Nazi policies laid out, did anyone else take note of that maybe ? Not picking on Obama, but as he is our leader now, is it fair to assess his character by his actions thus far in these ways ? I know he is not Hitler, but comparing policies in which I read in those 25, there is a lot of similarities to grapple with in analyzing these leaders or parties being dealt with as found within the history of this world.

You need to take a course in civics. The checks and balances our founders created in the government they created will never allow a Hitler in America. It can't happen. And Obama is not a Hitler.

Can't happen?

How did Truman get away with locking up the Japanese in WWII?

How did Bush get away with setting up Guantanamo and then refusing to set people free when ordered to do so by the courts?

Should I go on?

 

[jgarden]

The Spanish Civil War (1936 - 1939)

The Nationalists (nacionales), (also called insurgents, rebels—or, by opponents, Francoists or Fascists) feared national fragmentation and opposed the separatist movements. They were chiefly defined by their anti-communism, which galvanized diverse or opposed movements like falangists and monarchists. Their leaders had a generally wealthier, more conservative, monarchist, landowning background.

The Nationalist side included the Carlists and Alfonsist monarchists, Spanish nationalists, the fascist Falange, and most conservatives and monarchist liberals. Virtually all Nationalist groups had strong Catholic convictions and supported the native Spanish clergy. The Nationals included the majority of the Catholic clergy and practitioners (outside of the Basque region), important elements of the army, most large landowners, and many businessmen.

The war ended with the victory of the Nationalists and the exile of thousands of left-leaning Spaniards, many of whom fled to refugee camps in Southern France. With the establishment of a Fascist dictatorship led by General Francisco Franco in the aftermath of the Civil War, all right-wing parties were fused into the structure of the Franco regime

Spanish Civil War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Spanish Civil War provides one of the clearest indicators that Nazi Germany was a right-wing dictatorship that was intent on supported the emergence of other right-wing dictatorships that would later serve as allies.

Germany, Italy and Portugal all sent troops and military equipment to support the Nationalists led by General Franco and supported by much of the military and other conservative elements in Spanish society. Another strong supporter of the Nationalists was the conservative Catholic clergy who were adamantly anti communist (atheism).

Their opponents, the Republicans, "ranged from centrists who supported a moderately capitalist liberal democracy to revolutionary anarchists." They were primarily secular, the educated middle class. trade unionists and centered in Spain's major urban centers.

The Republlicans were also supported by the "international brigades" of volunteers, the Soviet Union and Mexico.

That doesn't prove jack. For the 1000th time, being anti-communist does not automatically make you a right winger. Truman, LBJ and Kennedy were all anti-communist. Were they right-wingers?

Has anyone noticed that virtually every argument the lefties bring to bear on this subject are logical fallacies?

I've provided reasonable response with references - and to have it summarily dismissed and then respond with some "cockamamie" comparison between General Franco and Truman , LBJ and/or Kennedy doesn't warrant any further response.

Since "bripat9643" has demonstrated that he is only willing to value his own opinion, why should he expect others to value his?

 

[Bfgrn]

Yes, if anything could Obama be just as wise or could he be driven to become as brilliantly insane as Hitler was possibly, in which could make him just as dangerous as Hitler was possibly ? This nation if not careful about what he is capable of himself while in power (i.e. best keep a sharp eye out on this one maybe), could possibly travel down some deep dark roads as well during his 8 year run. So far his ability to have many gravitate towards him regardless of his past is noteworthy, especially after all that is known about him so far, yet he still charms the vote out of them with his slickness and demeanor as is used, and for many these days it is all that is needed, just a simple smile & handshake and their done. He has a persuasion about him in this way with the masses, and Hitler also had this persuasion about himself as well did he not? So how are they different still yet I wonder ? Could it be that Obama has the same attributes possibly, but looks through his glass favoring a different set of circumstances and people as being dealt with now, and is he the same in his favoritisms as Hitler was, thus becoming popular in the same ways with certain people just as Hitler had become ? Looking back at history can usually allow us to compare the attributes, demeanors, characteristics of a leader, and make ourselves aware of those who will rise again in character in which could easily be found yet again within them, and at any given time in history. History has a way "always" of repeating itself, and as long as there are nations struggling, and people warring with each other be it within and/or without, economies struggling, resources becoming scarce, the poor being looked upon as pariah's, the wealthy becoming to greedy and controlling with most of the wealth, governments becoming to greedy in taxation along with other bogus revenue drawing needs, it could easily give rise to another tyrant/dictator once again in the world (even in America this could happen), therefore causing history to repeat itself yet again and again if not careful.

What is the best comparison so far to Obama, as to be found when looking back in history now at the various leaders around the world, or is it to early to tell yet ? In the twenty five stated Nazi policies I read here, I see a lot of Obama in those Nazi policies laid out, did anyone else take note of that maybe ? Not picking on Obama, but as he is our leader now, is it fair to assess his character by his actions thus far in these ways ? I know he is not Hitler, but comparing policies in which I read in those 25, there is a lot of similarities to grapple with in analyzing these leaders or parties being dealt with as found within the history of this world.

You need to take a course in civics. The checks and balances our founders created in the government they created will never allow a Hitler in America. It can't happen. And Obama is not a Hitler.

Can't happen?

How did Truman get away with locking up the Japanese in WWII?

How did Bush get away with setting up Guantanamo and then refusing to set people free when ordered to do so by the courts?

Should I go on?

Please do.
First of all Truman didn't lock up the Japanese in WWII. Are the prisoners at Guantanamo American citizens?

 

[Papageorgio]

Yes, if anything could Obama be just as wise or could he be driven to become as brilliantly insane as Hitler was possibly, in which could make him just as dangerous as Hitler was possibly ? This nation if not careful about what he is capable of himself while in power (i.e. best keep a sharp eye out on this one maybe), could possibly travel down some deep dark roads as well during his 8 year run. So far his ability to have many gravitate towards him regardless of his past is noteworthy, especially after all that is known about him so far, yet he still charms the vote out of them with his slickness and demeanor as is used, and for many these days it is all that is needed, just a simple smile & handshake and their done. He has a persuasion about him in this way with the masses, and Hitler also had this persuasion about himself as well did he not? So how are they different still yet I wonder ? Could it be that Obama has the same attributes possibly, but looks through his glass favoring a different set of circumstances and people as being dealt with now, and is he the same in his favoritisms as Hitler was, thus becoming popular in the same ways with certain people just as Hitler had become ? Looking back at history can usually allow us to compare the attributes, demeanors, characteristics of a leader, and make ourselves aware of those who will rise again in character in which could easily be found yet again within them, and at any given time in history. History has a way "always" of repeating itself, and as long as there are nations struggling, and people warring with each other be it within and/or without, economies struggling, resources becoming scarce, the poor being looked upon as pariah's, the wealthy becoming to greedy and controlling with most of the wealth, governments becoming to greedy in taxation along with other bogus revenue drawing needs, it could easily give rise to another tyrant/dictator once again in the world (even in America this could happen), therefore causing history to repeat itself yet again and again if not careful.

What is the best comparison so far to Obama, as to be found when looking back in history now at the various leaders around the world, or is it to early to tell yet ? In the twenty five stated Nazi policies I read here, I see a lot of Obama in those Nazi policies laid out, did anyone else take note of that maybe ? Not picking on Obama, but as he is our leader now, is it fair to assess his character by his actions thus far in these ways ? I know he is not Hitler, but comparing policies in which I read in those 25, there is a lot of similarities to grapple with in analyzing these leaders or parties being dealt with as found within the history of this world.

You need to take a course in civics. The checks and balances our founders created in the government they created will never allow a Hitler in America. It can't happen. And Obama is not a Hitler.

Can't happen?

How did Truman get away with locking up the Japanese in WWII?

How did Bush get away with setting up Guantanamo and then refusing to set people free when ordered to do so by the courts?

Should I go on?

Was it not FDR that placed Americans in camps?

 

[Pogo]

You need to take a course in civics. The checks and balances our founders created in the government they created will never allow a Hitler in America. It can't happen. And Obama is not a Hitler.

Can't happen?

How did Truman get away with locking up the Japanese in WWII?

How did Bush get away with setting up Guantanamo and then refusing to set people free when ordered to do so by the courts?

Should I go on?

Was it not FDR that placed Americans in camps?

Aye, it was, and three-fifths of them were US citizens, and it was an absurd overreach of power.
But it incites me to ask myself this: "who on this board is finding it impossible to admit that he is wrong?"

That was quick. Live by the snark....

 

[bripat9643]

The Spanish Civil War provides one of the clearest indicators that Nazi Germany was a right-wing dictatorship that was intent on supported the emergence of other right-wing dictatorships that would later serve as allies.

Germany, Italy and Portugal all sent troops and military equipment to support the Nationalists led by General Franco and supported by much of the military and other conservative elements in Spanish society. Another strong supporter of the Nationalists was the conservative Catholic clergy who were adamantly anti communist (atheism).

Their opponents, the Republicans, "ranged from centrists who supported a moderately capitalist liberal democracy to revolutionary anarchists." They were primarily secular, the educated middle class. trade unionists and centered in Spain's major urban centers.

The Republlicans were also supported by the "international brigades" of volunteers, the Soviet Union and Mexico.

That doesn't prove jack. For the 1000th time, being anti-communist does not automatically make you a right winger. Truman, LBJ and Kennedy were all anti-communist. Were they right-wingers?

Has anyone noticed that virtually every argument the lefties bring to bear on this subject are logical fallacies?

I've provided reasonable response with references - and to have it summarily dismissed and then respond with some "cockamamie" comparison between General Franco and Truman , LBJ and/or Kennedy doesn't warrant any further response.

Since "bripat9643" has demonstrated that he is only willing to value his own opinion, why should he expect others to value his?

Your reference doesn't prove Franco or any of his allies were right-wing. It merely assumes it. In logic that's a fallacy called "begging the question." Prove any of these groups were right-wing with quotes of them explaining their views on economics.

I didn't respond with a "Cockamamie comparison." I gave you an analogy that shows being anti-communist does not equate to being right-wing. Apparently it went right over your head.

 

[bripat9643]

Aye, it was, and three-fifths of them were US citizens, and it was an absurd overreach of power.
But it incites me to ask myself this: "who on this board is finding it impossible to admit that he is wrong?"

That was quick. Live by the snark....

That would be you and your sidekick Saigon.

 

[Pogo]

Aye, it was, and three-fifths of them were US citizens, and it was an absurd overreach of power.
But it incites me to ask myself this: "who on this board is finding it impossible to admit that he is wrong?"

That was quick. Live by the snark....

That would be you and your sidekick Saigon.

Uh-huh.
So remind me again -- which of us posted that "Truman locked up the Japanese"?

 

[bripat9643]

Aye, it was, and three-fifths of them were US citizens, and it was an absurd overreach of power.
But it incites me to ask myself this: "who on this board is finding it impossible to admit that he is wrong?"

That was quick. Live by the snark....

That would be you and your sidekick Saigon.

Uh-huh.
So remind me again -- which of us posted that "Truman locked up the Japanese"?

That's a side issue, isn't it?

Tell us who said this:

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions."​

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You need to take a course in civics. The checks and balances our founders created in the government they created will never allow a Hitler in America. It can't happen. And Obama is not a Hitler.

Can't happen?

How did Truman get away with locking up the Japanese in WWII?

How did Bush get away with setting up Guantanamo and then refusing to set people free when ordered to do so by the courts?

Should I go on?

Please do.
First of all Truman didn't lock up the Japanese in WWII. Are the prisoners at Guantanamo American citizens?

Got me on Truman, I don't know why I said that. Still does not change the fact that Japanese were locked up, does it?

What difference does it make if the people in Guantanamo citizens or not? Yasser Hamdi and John Walker Lindh were both American citizens, both were held without charge. So was Jose Padilla.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You need to take a course in civics. The checks and balances our founders created in the government they created will never allow a Hitler in America. It can't happen. And Obama is not a Hitler.

Can't happen?

How did Truman get away with locking up the Japanese in WWII?

How did Bush get away with setting up Guantanamo and then refusing to set people free when ordered to do so by the courts?

Should I go on?

Was it not FDR that placed Americans in camps?

I fucked that up. Fortunately,I am old enough that "Senior Moment" is a valid excuse.