hypothetical scenario- armed teacher

[Correll]

IF they are really dangerous to themselves or others, they need to be institutionalized, not have their weapons choices slightly restricted.


If they are not dangerous to themselves or others, than taking their rights away because you have an excuse, is you being a tyrant.

Using that guideline, Cruz would have been deemed to neither be institutionalized nor denied his right to purchase an AR-15.

Right. Because no warning signs at all.


Stoneman Douglas High School shooting - Wikipedia


"Cruz had behavior issues, and he was transferred between schools six times in three years in order to deal with these problems.[45]

In 2014, he was transferred to a school for children with emotional or learning disabilities, and returned to Stoneman Douglas High School two years later.[45] The Florida Department of Children and Families investigated him in September 2016 for Snapchat posts in which he cut both his arms and said he planned to buy a gun. State investigators reported Cruz had depression, autism, and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. I"



"n email from the school administration had circulated among teachers, warning that Cruz had made threats against other students. This led the school to ban him from wearing a backpack on campus."


"A former classmate said Cruz had anger management problems and often joked about guns and gun violence, including "shooting up establishments".[52] A 2016 graduate's brother described him as "super stressed out all the time and talked about guns a lot and tried to hide his face". A student enrolled at the school at the time of the shooting said, "I think everyone had in their minds if anybody was going to do it, it was going to be him."[53] A classmate assigned to work with him in sophomore year said, "He told me how he got kicked out of two private schools."



"The BSO received tips about Cruz's threats to shoot up the school on February 5, 2016, and on November 30, 2017. On September 23, 2016, a peer counselor notified the school resource officer of Cruz's suicide attempt and intent to buy a gun; the school indicated it would do a "threat assessment".[55][56][57] In total, the sheriff's office received 23 calls about Cruz over a decade"


This was my favorite.



"An email from the school administration had circulated among teachers, warning that Cruz had made threats against other students. This led the school to ban him from wearing a backpack on campus."


If a student is making threats credible enough that you ban him from wearing a back pack for fear he will bring weapons to school and use them....


Mmmm.



Like you said, no warnings signs...


lol!

Now you’re flat out lying about what I said, a clear sign you’ve lost the argument.

I never said there were no warning signs.

You said, ”IF they are really dangerous to themselves or others, they need to be institutionalized, not have their weapons choices slightly restricted.”

Despite the numerous times authorities were called to get involved, none of them ever categorized him as a danger to himself or others. No one ever suggested Baker Acting him. So according to your criteria which I just quoted, he would not have been institutionalized or prevented from legally purchasing an AR-15.

You lost that debate, but not being man enough to concede it, you opted to lie about what I said.

I accept your surrender.

The fact that this guy was never institutionalized just shows that we are too slow to do so.



"n email from the school administration had circulated among teachers, warning that Cruz had made threats against other students. This led the school to ban him from wearing a backpack on campus."



Seems they thought he was a danger to others. Yet, the extent of their reaction was to ban him from using a backpack.


How did that work out for everyone involved?

I already told you, you lost this when you lied about my position.

Oh, you mean when you tried to move the goal post to "in school"?

Yeah, I just ignored that, it was too stupid to comment on.

 

[DrLove]

Steel doors are cheaper than wood doors. The bullet proof kind are probably more expensive.However, even if bullets can penetrate the door, that doesn't mean the shooter can kill anyone inside. All the people inside have to do to avoid being shot is stand away from the door. Probably one thing they should change is adding a dead bolt to the doors which would prevent the shooter from entering without anyone having to hold the door. That alone would have saved a lot of lives in the FL shooting.

What happened at Douglas is there were kids stuck in hallways because teachers already locked the doors before they could get in. That is how many of the kids got shot. One teacher was killed because they opened the door to let a student in.

All the more reason to arm the teachers.

Arming teachers will result in more people getting shot.

The solution is to prevent folks like Cruz from buying weapons like an AR-15.

I don't buy that shit. If proper procedures are implemented, the rish will be minimal. A number of states already have programs that allow qualified teachers to carry concealed firearms.

Your idea of preventing folks like Cruz from getting Ar-15 is to abolish the 2nd Amendment,

LOLOLOL

Who the fuck gives a shit what you buy??

Need I remind the forum you bought the bullshit that David Hogg graduated in 2015 from a high school in California?

You’re a fucking moron... remember? You even call yourself a fucking moron..,

You have to be a fucking moron to believe the photo is showing the Cuban coast.

Well, what do you know, that picture is actually in Cuba.

Didn't the Angry Lil Feller also buy the story about how Hogg was a 26 year old drug addict from South Carolina?

 

[Correll]

Anyone being treated for any mental illness should be barred from legally purchasing any semiautomatic weapon.

ROFL! So if your doctor prescribes a few Zoloft, that means you lose your 2nd Amendment rights?

Better than your idea to let someone who is mentally ill purchase as many AR-15’s as they want.

How would you identify such a person if he has no police record and no record of treatment for mental illness?

As someone not known to be mentally ill.

By who, people that know him? Classmates?

This is the danger of giving Democrats that kind of power; willing to take somebody's rights away because of the opinion of others.

Here he is arguing that this guy, with his long history of behavioral problems and anger issues, was "not known to be mentally ill" yet, yesterday he was ready to take away the rights of EVERYONE receiving ANY treatment for any mental "illness".


He really shows how liberals make civilization impossible.

 

[Crixus]

you're the Athletic Director, you're in your office (front left beside the sign over the door) - you hear shooting and kids screaming for their life .. you open the gun safe in your closet, get your Glock 23 semi auto 9mm pistol and start out the door ... at the other end of the hall theres a kid standing at the bottom of the stairs with a semi auto AR 15 spraying shots down the hall in your direction as fast as he can squeeze the trigger, and bullets whizzing by you one after the other .. lets say those stairs are at least 45-50 steps, probably more... a lengthy shot for a pistol whatever the exact distance ... under those conditions, students running every direction, crowded hallway - could

YOU

leave your room, stay under total control,take careful aim and kill or wound the shooter stopping him from killing students without hitting and injuring any kids yourself?

Ive been around guns all of my life. I started shooting .22 rimfire pistols when I was 6 - .357 mag pistols when I was 12. I rate the degree of difficulty in that exact scenario on a scale of 1-10 .. 100+

what would you do ?

So you claim to be an expert gun shooter since you were six? Stan Lee would like to speak to you. It would do his heart good to know he had it right about the existence of mutants. A dual .357 wielding 6 year old is impressive.



In your scenario the teachers position is hopeless. In all honesty, not being a trash Ned gunfighter since I was 6, I’m thinking I would spray and pray, then sadly deal with the fact later that the bullets I fired also hit the kids I was trying to protect.



This is why you let teachers be teachers and hire security professionals to do security. That way there would have only been ONE exit under normal conditions for a shooter to come through. And if the shooter makes it in, the security pro would know where to stick kids, bunker them down then adress the shooter by keeping the gun fight AWAY from the students and teachers.

 

[Timmy]

Teachers are required to care for the kids in emergencies.

Which means there’s only one man left to arm. The janitor!

 

[Faun]

Anyone being treated for any mental illness should be barred from legally purchasing any semiautomatic weapon.

ROFL! So if your doctor prescribes a few Zoloft, that means you lose your 2nd Amendment rights?

Better than your idea to let someone who is mentally ill purchase as many AR-15’s as they want.

How would you identify such a person if he has no police record and no record of treatment for mental illness?

As someone not known to be mentally ill.

By who, people that know him? Classmates?

This is the danger of giving Democrats that kind of power; willing to take somebody's rights away because of the opinion of others.

No, you dumbfuck. Reading what I said is not sufficient— you also need to comprehend what you read; as I didn’t say what you’re asserting.

 

[Faun]

Using that guideline, Cruz would have been deemed to neither be institutionalized nor denied his right to purchase an AR-15.

Right. Because no warning signs at all.


Stoneman Douglas High School shooting - Wikipedia


"Cruz had behavior issues, and he was transferred between schools six times in three years in order to deal with these problems.[45]

In 2014, he was transferred to a school for children with emotional or learning disabilities, and returned to Stoneman Douglas High School two years later.[45] The Florida Department of Children and Families investigated him in September 2016 for Snapchat posts in which he cut both his arms and said he planned to buy a gun. State investigators reported Cruz had depression, autism, and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. I"



"n email from the school administration had circulated among teachers, warning that Cruz had made threats against other students. This led the school to ban him from wearing a backpack on campus."


"A former classmate said Cruz had anger management problems and often joked about guns and gun violence, including "shooting up establishments".[52] A 2016 graduate's brother described him as "super stressed out all the time and talked about guns a lot and tried to hide his face". A student enrolled at the school at the time of the shooting said, "I think everyone had in their minds if anybody was going to do it, it was going to be him."[53] A classmate assigned to work with him in sophomore year said, "He told me how he got kicked out of two private schools."



"The BSO received tips about Cruz's threats to shoot up the school on February 5, 2016, and on November 30, 2017. On September 23, 2016, a peer counselor notified the school resource officer of Cruz's suicide attempt and intent to buy a gun; the school indicated it would do a "threat assessment".[55][56][57] In total, the sheriff's office received 23 calls about Cruz over a decade"


This was my favorite.



"An email from the school administration had circulated among teachers, warning that Cruz had made threats against other students. This led the school to ban him from wearing a backpack on campus."


If a student is making threats credible enough that you ban him from wearing a back pack for fear he will bring weapons to school and use them....


Mmmm.



Like you said, no warnings signs...


lol!

Now you’re flat out lying about what I said, a clear sign you’ve lost the argument.

I never said there were no warning signs.

You said, ”IF they are really dangerous to themselves or others, they need to be institutionalized, not have their weapons choices slightly restricted.”

Despite the numerous times authorities were called to get involved, none of them ever categorized him as a danger to himself or others. No one ever suggested Baker Acting him. So according to your criteria which I just quoted, he would not have been institutionalized or prevented from legally purchasing an AR-15.

You lost that debate, but not being man enough to concede it, you opted to lie about what I said.

I accept your surrender.

The fact that this guy was never institutionalized just shows that we are too slow to do so.



"n email from the school administration had circulated among teachers, warning that Cruz had made threats against other students. This led the school to ban him from wearing a backpack on campus."



Seems they thought he was a danger to others. Yet, the extent of their reaction was to ban him from using a backpack.


How did that work out for everyone involved?

I already told you, you lost this when you lied about my position.

Oh, you mean when you tried to move the goal post to "in school"?

Yeah, I just ignored that, it was too stupid to comment on.

Nope, I moved no goal posts. I said the authorities never identified himself as someone who was a threat to himself or to others. Your deformed conservative brain spit that out as though I said there were no warning signs with Cruz; but I never said that. You lied about what I said which is you, losing the debate. Deal with it.

 

[Faun]

ROFL! So if your doctor prescribes a few Zoloft, that means you lose your 2nd Amendment rights?

Better than your idea to let someone who is mentally ill purchase as many AR-15’s as they want.

How would you identify such a person if he has no police record and no record of treatment for mental illness?

As someone not known to be mentally ill.

By who, people that know him? Classmates?

This is the danger of giving Democrats that kind of power; willing to take somebody's rights away because of the opinion of others.

Here he is arguing that this guy, with his long history of behavioral problems and anger issues, was "not known to be mentally ill" yet, yesterday he was ready to take away the rights of EVERYONE receiving ANY treatment for any mental "illness".


He really shows how liberals make civilization impossible.

I never said that either. Fuck, you conservatives are brain-dead.

Can’t you comprehend anything?

 

[ABikerSailor]

You know, when I was a member of the Security Force in Newport RI, we trained a full week each month to guard the base. That included shooting at targets, as well as learning how to hide behind things and shoot, as well as learning ammo control (no more than 3 shots at any target, some requiring just one or two).

No. I don't think that spending an hour or two at the range every month practicing shooting at stationary targets is going to cut it.

So how much time did you spend actually shooting a gun?

Range time was a couple of days during the week of training. We would end up shooting 150 to 200 rounds each round training.

 

[hadit]

you're the Athletic Director, you're in your office (front left beside the sign over the door) - you hear shooting and kids screaming for their life .. you open the gun safe in your closet, get your Glock 23 semi auto 9mm pistol and start out the door ... at the other end of the hall theres a kid standing at the bottom of the stairs with a semi auto AR 15 spraying shots down the hall in your direction as fast as he can squeeze the trigger, and bullets whizzing by you one after the other .. lets say those stairs are at least 45-50 steps, probably more... a lengthy shot for a pistol whatever the exact distance ... under those conditions, students running every direction, crowded hallway - could

YOU

leave your room, stay under total control,take careful aim and kill or wound the shooter stopping him from killing students without hitting and injuring any kids yourself?

Ive been around guns all of my life. I started shooting .22 rimfire pistols when I was 6 - .357 mag pistols when I was 12. I rate the degree of difficulty in that exact scenario on a scale of 1-10 .. 100+

what would you do ?

So you claim to be an expert gun shooter since you were six? Stan Lee would like to speak to you. It would do his heart good to know he had it right about the existence of mutants. A dual .357 wielding 6 year old is impressive.



In your scenario the teachers position is hopeless. In all honesty, not being a trash Ned gunfighter since I was 6, I’m thinking I would spray and pray, then sadly deal with the fact later that the bullets I fired also hit the kids I was trying to protect.



This is why you let teachers be teachers and hire security professionals to do security. That way there would have only been ONE exit under normal conditions for a shooter to come through. And if the shooter makes it in, the security pro would know where to stick kids, bunker them down then adress the shooter by keeping the gun fight AWAY from the students and teachers.

Sure, and you hope and pray the shooter never gets into a classroom. But if he does, and history teaches us that he does far too often, the teacher is the last line of defense the kids have. I want that defense to have a fighting chance. Do you?

 

[bripat9643]

I thought we did that now provided there was a history of mental illness. I don't think that was the case with Cruz.

Then it boils down to what is mental illness? Anxiety that you need medication for? Attention Deficit Disorder? Obsessive Compulsive Disorder? Bipolar? Depression?

Anyone being treated for any mental illness should be barred from legally purchasing any semiautomatic weapon.

ROFL! So if your doctor prescribes a few Zoloft, that means you lose your 2nd Amendment rights?

Better than your idea to let someone who is mentally ill purchase as many AR-15’s as they want.

How would you identify such a person if he has no police record and no record of treatment for mental illness?

As someone not known to be mentally ill.

it is already illegal for such people to purchase a gun. That's what the FBI check was supposed to prevent.

 

[Siete]

you're the Athletic Director, you're in your office (front left beside the sign over the door) - you hear shooting and kids screaming for their life .. you open the gun safe in your closet, get your Glock 23 semi auto 9mm pistol and start out the door ... at the other end of the hall theres a kid standing at the bottom of the stairs with a semi auto AR 15 spraying shots down the hall in your direction as fast as he can squeeze the trigger, and bullets whizzing by you one after the other .. lets say those stairs are at least 45-50 steps, probably more... a lengthy shot for a pistol whatever the exact distance ... under those conditions, students running every direction, crowded hallway - could

YOU

leave your room, stay under total control,take careful aim and kill or wound the shooter stopping him from killing students without hitting and injuring any kids yourself?

Ive been around guns all of my life. I started shooting .22 rimfire pistols when I was 6 - .357 mag pistols when I was 12. I rate the degree of difficulty in that exact scenario on a scale of 1-10 .. 100+

what would you do ?

So you claim to be an expert gun shooter since you were six? Stan Lee would like to speak to you. It would do his heart good to know he had it right about the existence of mutants. A dual .357 wielding 6 year old is impressive.



In your scenario the teachers position is hopeless. In all honesty, not being a trash Ned gunfighter since I was 6, I’m thinking I would spray and pray, then sadly deal with the fact later that the bullets I fired also hit the kids I was trying to protect.



This is why you let teachers be teachers and hire security professionals to do security. That way there would have only been ONE exit under normal conditions for a shooter to come through. And if the shooter makes it in, the security pro would know where to stick kids, bunker them down then adress the shooter by keeping the gun fight AWAY from the students and teachers.

So you claim to be an expert gun shooter since you were six? Stan Lee would like to speak to you. It would do his heart good to know he had it right about the existence of mutants. A dual .357 wielding 6 year old is impressive.

no I didnt say that- not even close

I clearly said I STARTED SHOOTING RIMFIRE .22's WHEN I WAS SIX ... .357'S @ 12

thats ok though, most Russians cant comprehend written English.

 

[bripat9643]

What happened at Douglas is there were kids stuck in hallways because teachers already locked the doors before they could get in. That is how many of the kids got shot. One teacher was killed because they opened the door to let a student in.

All the more reason to arm the teachers.

Arming teachers will result in more people getting shot.

The solution is to prevent folks like Cruz from buying weapons like an AR-15.

I don't buy that shit. If proper procedures are implemented, the rish will be minimal. A number of states already have programs that allow qualified teachers to carry concealed firearms.

Your idea of preventing folks like Cruz from getting Ar-15 is to abolish the 2nd Amendment,

LOLOLOL

Who the fuck gives a shit what you buy??

Need I remind the forum you bought the bullshit that David Hogg graduated in 2015 from a high school in California?

You’re a fucking moron... remember? You even call yourself a fucking moron..,

You have to be a fucking moron to believe the photo is showing the Cuban coast.

Well, what do you know, that picture is actually in Cuba.

Didn't the Angry Lil Feller also buy the story about how Hogg was a 26 year old drug addict from South Carolina?

No he didn't, Dr. Fuckstick.

 

[Thinker101]

you're the Athletic Director, you're in your office (front left beside the sign over the door) - you hear shooting and kids screaming for their life .. you open the gun safe in your closet, get your Glock 23 semi auto 9mm pistol and start out the door ... at the other end of the hall theres a kid standing at the bottom of the stairs with a semi auto AR 15 spraying shots down the hall in your direction as fast as he can squeeze the trigger, and bullets whizzing by you one after the other .. lets say those stairs are at least 45-50 steps, probably more... a lengthy shot for a pistol whatever the exact distance ... under those conditions, students running every direction, crowded hallway - could

YOU

leave your room, stay under total control,take careful aim and kill or wound the shooter stopping him from killing students without hitting and injuring any kids yourself?

Ive been around guns all of my life. I started shooting .22 rimfire pistols when I was 6 - .357 mag pistols when I was 12. I rate the degree of difficulty in that exact scenario on a scale of 1-10 .. 100+

what would you do ?

And then you get shot by a cop who thinks you’re the school shooter.

Unless the cop was outside "protecting the perimeter".

 

[Faun]

Anyone being treated for any mental illness should be barred from legally purchasing any semiautomatic weapon.

ROFL! So if your doctor prescribes a few Zoloft, that means you lose your 2nd Amendment rights?

Better than your idea to let someone who is mentally ill purchase as many AR-15’s as they want.

How would you identify such a person if he has no police record and no record of treatment for mental illness?

As someone not known to be mentally ill.

it is already illegal for such people to purchase a gun. That's what the FBI check was supposed to prevent.

Fucking moron... people who are not known to be mentally ill are currently banned from purchasing firearms??

See now why everyone here, including you, thinks you’re a fucking moron?

 

[Fang]

I'm thinking back to my grade school days and I can't imagine any of my teachers, except maybe one, running out into the hall and confronting a shooter. This whole idea is effing crazy. Hire armed security and take better steps to lock the school down. And better yet, when the FBI is notified of a student that may go crazy, act on it.

 

[KeiserC]

you're the Athletic Director, you're in your office (front left beside the sign over the door) - you hear shooting and kids screaming for their life .. you open the gun safe in your closet, get your Glock 23 semi auto 9mm pistol and start out the door ... at the other end of the hall theres a kid standing at the bottom of the stairs with a semi auto AR 15 spraying shots down the hall in your direction as fast as he can squeeze the trigger, and bullets whizzing by you one after the other .. lets say those stairs are at least 45-50 steps, probably more... a lengthy shot for a pistol whatever the exact distance ... under those conditions, students running every direction, crowded hallway - could

YOU

leave your room, stay under total control,take careful aim and kill or wound the shooter stopping him from killing students without hitting and injuring any kids yourself?

Ive been around guns all of my life. I started shooting .22 rimfire pistols when I was 6 - .357 mag pistols when I was 12. I rate the degree of difficulty in that exact scenario on a scale of 1-10 .. 100+

what would you do ?

Being around guns all your life doesn't mean you have a clue about tactical situations. A shooter only shoots down a hallway for so long before walking, turning, entering rooms etc. The shooter is a 'target of opportunity' and would be stalked, pursued as such...

 

[Siete]

why is it you see 100 police cars sitting outside a hostage situation with policemen squatting down behind their cars with their service weapons aimed at the the entrance securing the building and not entering doors or windows shooting at a suspect ?

 

[Siete]

you're the Athletic Director, you're in your office (front left beside the sign over the door) - you hear shooting and kids screaming for their life .. you open the gun safe in your closet, get your Glock 23 semi auto 9mm pistol and start out the door ... at the other end of the hall theres a kid standing at the bottom of the stairs with a semi auto AR 15 spraying shots down the hall in your direction as fast as he can squeeze the trigger, and bullets whizzing by you one after the other .. lets say those stairs are at least 45-50 steps, probably more... a lengthy shot for a pistol whatever the exact distance ... under those conditions, students running every direction, crowded hallway - could

YOU

leave your room, stay under total control,take careful aim and kill or wound the shooter stopping him from killing students without hitting and injuring any kids yourself?

Ive been around guns all of my life. I started shooting .22 rimfire pistols when I was 6 - .357 mag pistols when I was 12. I rate the degree of difficulty in that exact scenario on a scale of 1-10 .. 100+

what would you do ?

Being around guns all your life doesn't mean you have a clue about tactical situations. A shooter only shoots down a hallway for so long before walking, turning, entering rooms etc. The shooter is a 'target of opportunity' and would be stalked, pursued as such...

if TEACHERS dont lock the damn door ...

dddduuuuuhhhhhh

and if you'll read what I said - as much experience as I have I wouldnt make the decision to shoot in a hallway full of kids .. slugs glancing of walls kill people - I wouldnt want to live with killing a kid or two trying to be a fucking hero.

 

[Fang]

why is it you see 100 police cars sitting outside a hostage situation with policemen squatting down behind their cars with their service weapons aimed at the the entrance securing building and not entering doors or windows shooting at a suspect ?

Great point. Why is everyone acting like a freaking teacher should go grab a gun and turn into Rambo?