I am losing faith in our representative democracy

[Oddball]

That it has been grown to vastly exceed its authority isn't the fault of the model, it's the fault of those who changed it for the expansion of their power,

agreed Odd one

yet everytime i mention we are loosing our liberties to such factions, i'm labeled a liberal, a leftie , etc etc

~S~

Perhaps liberalism is more associated with larger government with Repub help. With larger government comes less liberties.

The republicans have been slow-burn progressives ever since FDR....Controlled opposition.

 

[sparky]

That it has been grown to vastly exceed its authority isn't the fault of the model, it's the fault of those who changed it for the expansion of their power,

agreed Odd one

yet everytime i mention we are loosing our liberties to such factions, i'm labeled a liberal, a leftie , etc etc

~S~

Perhaps liberalism is more associated with larger government with Repub help. With larger government comes less liberties.

I was never for the PA, HS, TSA, NSA, N.I.M.S.

and you'll find i'm actually in the majority, despite how you'll also find a majority of our representatives were for these tools of fascism

bit of a twist on it...but, by your definition, we've a governance that's more liberal than it's constituency

~S~

 

[Seawytch]

Compromise is far more popular among Democrats.

A striking thing in that Pew survey was the sharp decline in the percentage of Democrats who favored compromise, even though they had long been more supportive of compromise than had Republicans. This seemed like a predictable reaction to a unified Republican government, when compromise in the abstract would mean compromise with a president and congressional majority that most Democrats strongly oppose.


However, we found evidence of the same old partisan gap: 66 percent of Democrats favored compromise, compared with 36 percent of Republicans who did. This could reflect news surrounding the Democratic takeover of the House: To Democrats, compromise may sound a lot better now that they have some negotiating power.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...oliticians-to-compromise-but-maybe-they-dont/

 

[Oddball]

Compromise is far more popular among Democrats.

A striking thing in that Pew survey was the sharp decline in the percentage of Democrats who favored compromise, even though they had long been more supportive of compromise than had Republicans. This seemed like a predictable reaction to a unified Republican government, when compromise in the abstract would mean compromise with a president and congressional majority that most Democrats strongly oppose.


However, we found evidence of the same old partisan gap: 66 percent of Democrats favored compromise, compared with 36 percent of Republicans who did. This could reflect news surrounding the Democratic takeover of the House: To Democrats, compromise may sound a lot better now that they have some negotiating power.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...oliticians-to-compromise-but-maybe-they-dont/

Compromising with prog tyrants who are almost always wrong has put us in the predicament we're in today.

 

[jwoodie]

not tribal, petty, party-over-country partisan politics.

Are you referring to the Democrats' efforts to impeach Trump from the day he was elected President? Can you think of a more partisan and destructive effort in our nation's history?

 

[jwoodie]

Most of you are more educated than the founders

Most of you do not have the intellectual capacity to grasp the issues with which the Founders wrestled, much less the ability to create a new form of government which became the standard of the world.

 

[sparky]

Most of you are more educated than the founders

Most of you do not have the intellectual capacity to grasp the issues with which the Founders wrestled, much less the ability to create a new form of government which became the standard of the world.

yup, i'm dumber than a stump....

~S~

 

[Oddball]

Most of you are more educated than the founders

Most of you do not have the intellectual capacity to grasp the issues with which the Founders wrestled, much less the ability to create a new form of government which became the standard of the world.

And even at that, it didn't survive its first president before its tenets and constraints were disregarded.

But we're sooooo much smarter today.

 

[jwoodie]

There's too much gridlock; shit moves too slowly. All we do is trip and fall repeatedly as we try to walk in ten different directions shackled to each other. I know it's working as intended, but what was intended doesn't work well with a world that is becoming more and more fast-paced. I want a system that is capable of making big and bold decisions in a timely manner. I want to see the ball rolling. I am tired of the status quo, the same shit different day. Something needs to change.

If I didn't know better, I would conclude that you are a Trump supporter. Instead, you seem to be adopting the Democrats' post-impeachment mantra of "can't we all just get along together?"

P.S. Would you prefer a faster-paced parliamentary system where Pelosi and Schiff could call all the shots?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

There's too much gridlock; shit moves too slowly. All we do is trip and fall repeatedly as we try to walk in ten different directions shackled to each other. I know it's working as intended, but what was intended doesn't work well with a world that is becoming more and more fast-paced. I want a system that is capable of making big and bold decisions in a timely manner. I want to see the ball rolling. I am tired of the status quo, the same shit different day. Something needs to change.

Or not.

There is the mindset that gridlock is good – it safeguards us against the pitfalls of both the extreme right and left, keeping America on a generally moderate, middle of the road course reflecting the will of the majority of the people.

Many fear a system that is capable of making big and bold decisions in that such decisions would be bad decisions; what might be big and bold to some would be reckless and irresponsible to others.

 

[Confounding]

But we're sooooo much smarter today.

There is a difference between intelligence and knowledge/context/education, just as there is a difference between stupidity and ignorance. I didn't claim to be smarter than anybody. I claimed to know more and have more relevant context with which to base my opinions on. People from centuries ago are ignorant compared to us. The world changes, and so too must our approach to government.

 

[sparky]

P.S. Would you prefer a faster-paced parliamentary system where Pelosi and Schiff could call all the shots?

I'd say that system has debatable pros/cons...

~S~

 

[Confounding]

Many fear

Yeah, there certainly is no shortage of cowardice.

 

[Oddball]

But we're sooooo much smarter today.

There is a difference between intelligence and knowledge/context/education, just as there is a difference between stupidity and ignorance. I didn't claim to be smarter than anybody. I claimed to know more and have more relevant context with which to base my opinions on. People from centuries ago are ignorant compared to us. The world changes, and so too must our approach to government.

If we really knew so much more and and soooo much more sophisticated, it would be easily recognized that gumbint is the source of most of our modern problems and not the solution to them....Expanding its grasp and speed of action is far from enlightened, it's foolhardiness.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Could you manage to be just a wee bit more arrogant?

Most of you are more educated than the founders too, and have more relevant context to base your opinions on because you actually live in the current times. They said some good shit and gave us something decent to work with, but the deification of everything they said is really kind of ridiculous.

True.

And the Framers were aware of this; they had the wisdom to know that they didn’t have all the answers and that the America of the future would be significantly different than the country they lived in.

That’s why they created a Republic predicated on the rule of law rather than the will of the people, and why they codified in the Constitution the principles of liberty to allow future generations to protect citizens’ rights and liberties.

 

[Oddball]

Could you manage to be just a wee bit more arrogant?

Most of you are more educated than the founders too, and have more relevant context to base your opinions on because you actually live in the current times. They said some good shit and gave us something decent to work with, but the deification of everything they said is really kind of ridiculous.

True.

And the Framers were aware of this; they had the wisdom to know that they didn’t have all the answers and that the America of the future would be significantly different than the country they lived in.

That’s why they created a Republic predicated on the rule of law rather than the will of the people, and why they codified in the Constitution the principles of liberty to allow future generations to protect citizens’ rights and liberties.

Speaking of arrogance.....

 

[CWayne]

But we're sooooo much smarter today.

There is a difference between intelligence and knowledge/context/education, just as there is a difference between stupidity and ignorance. I didn't claim to be smarter than anybody. I claimed to know more and have more relevant context with which to base my opinions on. People from centuries ago are ignorant compared to us. The world changes, and so too must our approach to government.

Can you not easily see the argument that the more that the world changes, the greater the imperative that we resist that change to our form of government?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

That it has been grown to vastly exceed its authority isn't the fault of the model, it's the fault of those who changed it for the expansion of their power,

agreed Odd one

yet everytime i mention we are loosing our liberties to such factions, i'm labeled a liberal, a leftie , etc etc

~S~

Perhaps liberalism is more associated with larger government with Repub help. With larger government comes less liberties.

I was never for the PA, HS, TSA, NSA, N.I.M.S.

and you'll find i'm actually in the majority, despite how you'll also find a majority of our representatives were for these tools of fascism

bit of a twist on it...but, by your definition, we've a governance that's more liberal than it's constituency

~S~

Actually not.

If the majority of the people indeed opposed the post 9/11 ‘security’ legislation, that legislation wouldn’t exist.

The post 9/11 ‘security’ legislation such as the PA exist because a majority of the people want it to exist, the consequence of the people’s fear, apathy, and ignorance.

Blaming politicians for the PA and other such legislation is pointless and naïve; the people are solely responsible for the bad government they get.

 

[Anathema]

There's too much gridlock; shit moves too slowly. All we do is trip and fall repeatedly as we try to walk in ten different directions shackled to each other. I know it's working as intended, but what was intended doesn't work well with a world that is becoming more and more fast-paced. I want a system that is capable of making big and bold decisions in a timely manner. I want to see the ball rolling. I am tired of the status quo, the same shit different day. Something needs to change.

Gridlock - That’s what happens when you allow people to have a say in things. Politicians make decisions based on getting votes rather than Right and Wrong. That’s why Democracy/Republics don’t work.

 

[anynameyouwish]

There's too much gridlock; shit moves too slowly. All we do is trip and fall repeatedly as we try to walk in ten different directions shackled to each other. I know it's working as intended, but what was intended doesn't work well with a world that is becoming more and more fast-paced. I want a system that is capable of making big and bold decisions in a timely manner. I want to see the ball rolling. I am tired of the status quo, the same shit different day. Something needs to change.

Thats because the Republican Party has been taken over by anti-American christian theocratic fascist extremists, and the DEMS are trying to stop them from destroying whats left of America.