I don't really understand the Dems' "need," for lack of a better word, for a national $15 min wage.

[Dadoalex]

Historically minimum wage increases have been followed with increased economic activity, increased employment, and an expansion of the workforce.

Then show us the evidence supporting your allegations. You know with a reliable source and working link. You can't, but I did. Step up, or move aside.

Since you insist on being made the fool...

History of Federal Minimum Wage Rates Under the Fair Labor Standards Act, 1938 - 2009

www.dol.gov

There's the link to wage increases. Let's use the bottom 5 rows as an example.

Sep 1, 1997 5	$5.15 for all covered, nonexempt workers	$5.15 for all covered, nonexempt workers	$5.15 for all covered, nonexempt workers
Jul 24, 2007	$5.85 for all covered, nonexempt workers	$5.85 for all covered, nonexempt workers	$5.85 for all covered, nonexempt workers
Jul 24, 2008	$6.55 for all covered, nonexempt workers	$6.55 for all covered, nonexempt workers	$6.55 for all covered, nonexempt workers
Jul 24, 2009	$7.25 for all covered, nonexempt workers	$7.25 for all covered, nonexempt workers	$7.25 for all covered, nonexempt workers

2007: We were in the middle of the longest economic expansion in US history
2007-2009 Three increases that prefaced the 11 years of continuous growth

No, you can't blame the economic collapse on the minimum wage increase. The 07-09 increases were in response to the collapsing economy and were intended to get cash into the hands of the workers because, as I explained earlier, they spend the money and that spending increases economic activity.

Can I be done slapping you now?

 

[Markle]

Well we definitely have a wage problem. We have way too many corps with near monopolies and too much wage collusion. Now I'd rather see that get fixed, but it creates the "need" for a higher min wage in the meantime.

IF that was true, and we both know it is not, how then did President Donald Trump manage to increase the wages of the lowest-paid and minorities far more than that of higher-paid workers and cut unemployment down to record levels.


JOBS
Published January 24, 2020
Income inequality declining under Trump policies, says Labor secretary
Workers are seeing faster wage growth than their bosses
By Frank Connor FOXBusiness

Workers’ wages are growing faster than their bosses', narrowing the income gap, as a result of President Trump’s policies, according to Labor Secretary Eugene Scalia.

“At the end of the Obama administration, what we saw is wage growth for the high wage earners [and] slow wage growth for the low wage earners," Scalia told FOX Business’ Maria Bartiromo in an exclusive interview at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland. "We’ve flipped that in this economy,”

Decreasing unemployment and Trump’s reduction of regulations are factors that have contributed to this low-income wage growth, according to Scalia.

Income inequality declining under Trump policies, says Labor secretary

Due to President Trump's economic policies, workers' wages are growing faster than their bosses, according to Labor Secretary Eugene Scalia.

www.foxbusiness.com

Perhaps most ominously, an administration known for its ambivalent relationship with facts is also seeking to change how the federal government measures poverty itself, which could reduce the number of people who qualify for basic assistance programs, including Medicaid, children’s healthcare, and food aid.

While Trump boasts of economic growth, inequality deepens

Many economists say the president can’t claim credit for the current economy and that his policies have contributed to rising inequality.

www.fastcompany.com

How cute. A far-left blog, no one has heard of, led by two Harvard business graduates. I provided facts and a working link. You brought an opinion from Socialists.

Run along, your desperation is palpable.

 

[Lesh]

Republicans "don't understand" the need for higher wages...because THEY make two, three times as much...or more and don't give a shit about anyone but themselves

 

[Markle]

Historically minimum wage increases have been followed with increased economic activity, increased employment, and an expansion of the workforce.

Then show us the evidence supporting your allegations. You know with a reliable source and working link. You can't, but I did. Step up, or move aside.

Since you insist on being made the fool...

History of Federal Minimum Wage Rates Under the Fair Labor Standards Act, 1938 - 2009

www.dol.gov

There's the link to wage increases. Let's use the bottom 5 rows as an example.

Sep 1, 1997 5	$5.15 for all covered, nonexempt workers	$5.15 for all covered, nonexempt workers	$5.15 for all covered, nonexempt workers
Jul 24, 2007	$5.85 for all covered, nonexempt workers	$5.85 for all covered, nonexempt workers	$5.85 for all covered, nonexempt workers
Jul 24, 2008	$6.55 for all covered, nonexempt workers	$6.55 for all covered, nonexempt workers	$6.55 for all covered, nonexempt workers
Jul 24, 2009	$7.25 for all covered, nonexempt workers	$7.25 for all covered, nonexempt workers	$7.25 for all covered, nonexempt workers

2007: We were in the middle of the longest economic expansion in US history
2007-2009 Three increases that prefaced the 11 years of continuous growth

No, you can't blame the economic collapse on the minimum wage increase. The 07-09 increases were in response to the collapsing economy and were intended to get cash into the hands of the workers because, as I explained earlier, they spend the money and that spending increases economic activity.

Can I be done slapping you now?

You posted nothing to support your delusional vision.

Please show us the drastic drop in the rate of poverty each time the minimum wage increased.

 

[JoeB131]

Really? So if I do nothing for you, but remove a few sticks from your yard, you have to pay me $50,000 a year? Or whatever arbitrary amount you consider a living wage?

If you are doing that for a year, every day, um, yeah, that's actually kind of reasonable.

See, this is the problem with claims like that. You can say that, as long as it doesn't involve you. But if *YOU* had to pay someone a living wage, for doing extremely low value work, you wouldn't be saying that.

But who gets to decide what is "low value work". Frankly, when I go to get something I am going to put in my body, I really want the people who prepare it to care enough to do it right. I'm less concerned about the Hedge Fund Manager paying himself eight figures for producing, really, not much of anything.

How do I know this? Because anyone that actually has to deal with it from their own money, suddenly doesn't believe that all work is worth a living wage.

I wouldn't know. I pay people I hire to do work for me a fair wage. If I get good service, I usually tip generously.

It's pretty easy to say everyone should get a living wage, no matter what they do.... when *YOU* are not the one paying it.

But if you were the one running a business (unless it was an extremely profitable business), you wouldn't be saying that when it impacts your money.

If you were running a restaurant, you would never claim that.

But that's the point. The resturant only works or doesn't work because of the quality of the service provided, so those people SHOULD get a living wage. Of course, most people who work there are doing it as a second gig because first gigs don't pay a good enough wage.

 

[Markle]

Republicans "don't understand" the need for higher wages...because THEY make two, three times as much...or more and don't give a shit about anyone but themselves

Who are the richest men in America and are they Republicans or Democrats?

 

[Lesh]

Please show us the drastic drop in the rate of poverty each time the minimum wage increased.

More importantly...show the economic harm...jobs lost...from raising the wages of workers.

It never happens.

All you want to do is keep wages low.

Republicans...

 

[Markle]

But that's the point. The resturant only works or doesn't work because of the quality of the service provided, so those people SHOULD get a living wage. Of course, most people who work there are doing it as a second gig because first gigs don't pay a good enough wage.

You've never worked for tips, have you?

There are restaurants where the wait staff pay the restaurant. Why do you suppose that would happen?

I bet you're a lousy tipper, aren't you?

 

[Markle]

The minimum wage has not kept up with inflation regardless of productivity. How is that not employers "stealing" from Labor as the least wealthy?

There is, as you know, no reason for the minimum wage to keep up with inflation. The increase in productivity is due to far more technology being used along with mechanization.

Once again, for your reluctant edification.

JOBS
Published January 24, 2020
Income inequality declining under Trump policies, says Labor secretary
Workers are seeing faster wage growth than their bosses

By Frank Connor FOXBusiness
[...]

LOW-EARNING AMERICANS ARE SEEING THE BIGGEST WAGE GAINS IN A DECADE

Since January of 2017, when Trump was sworn into office, the unemployment rate has fallen from 4.7 percent to a 50- year low of 3.5 percent. This is 1 percentage point below the Federal Reserve’s estimated long-run natural rate of unemployment.

“As unemployment gets better all the time, wages are going to go up too. And that’s really been the goal,” Scalia said.

The low rate of unemployment has led to employers trying to bring more people into jobs and rising wages, he explained. This has led to an increase in employment among women in industries in which they have not traditionally worked such as construction and manufacturing, Scalia added.

WEEKLY JOBLESS CLAIMS RISE LESS THAN EXPECTED

“All boats are being lifted now, [but] there’s been concern, for example, about what we call the labor participation rate,” he said.

Income inequality declining under Trump policies, says Labor secretary

Due to President Trump's economic policies, workers' wages are growing faster than their bosses, according to Labor Secretary Eugene Scalia.

www.foxbusiness.com

If you're going to make a pathetic effort to refute my facts, post your FACTS, not an opinion piece in a far-left blog.

Loading…

photos.smugmug.com

 

[JoeB131]

If you work, you should make a living wage, period.

Why?

Why not? Frankly, if the One Percenters can get away with cheating the wage slaves, they'll eventually cheat the rest of us.

I'm always curious about the hate the right wing has for the working poor, and then bitch when a lot of them go on welfare to make ends meet. You are subsidizing their workforce, and you think it's fine.

 

[JoeB131]

You've never worked for tips, have you?

There are restaurants where the wait staff pay the restaurant. Why do you suppose that would happen?

I bet you're a lousy tipper, aren't you?

Actually, I'm a pretty good tipper, but no one should have to depend on their tips... they should be making a living wage to start with

 

[j-mac]

If you work, you should make a living wage, period.

Why?

Why not? Frankly, if the One Percenters can get away with cheating the wage slaves, they'll eventually cheat the rest of us.

I'm always curious about the hate the right wing has for the working poor, and then bitch when a lot of them go on welfare to make ends meet. You are subsidizing their workforce, and you think it's fine.

Minimum wage jobs were never meant to be carreers...Generally when I was growing up they were there to provide an entry into the workforce, a stepping stone to training for a better job, or to provide skills in the workforce while someone bettered their marketability through education...

I think Democrats look at this wrong. IMHO, what should be happening is that those holding min wage jobs should also be in training to learn a trade, or go to school to earn a degree that will propel them up the ladder to better pay...Now, if that comes as a partnership with those industries that hire at min wage, then I would be ok with that. But, to just double the wage, without any advancement is a recipe to hold people where they are at....

 

[DBA]

So if you're against a $15 minimum wage...how much do YOU make.

Wanna bet they won't say?

Wanna bet it's a hell of a lot more than $15/ hour?

Do you know how much a teacher makes starting out in NC, for example? Pretty shameful that a zit faced 16 year-old ice scream scooper on summer break would be right there with him/her. This is why a $15 min. wage makes ZERO sense on a national level. NYC is not the same economy as small town USA.

 

[DBA]

You've never worked for tips, have you?

There are restaurants where the wait staff pay the restaurant. Why do you suppose that would happen?

I bet you're a lousy tipper, aren't you?

Actually, I'm a pretty good tipper, but no one should have to depend on their tips... they should be making a living wage to start with

A kid working a summer job desn’t need to be making a living wage.

I guess a family with 3 kids ages 16-18 could put their 3 kids to work taking orders at a drive-thru and pull in a cool 90k extra per year.

All jobs don’t warrant a “living wage”.

 

[JoeB131]

Minimum wage jobs were never meant to be carreers...Generally when I was growing up they were there to provide an entry into the workforce, a stepping stone to training for a better job, or to provide skills in the workforce while someone bettered their marketability through education...

Okay, maybe not everyone wants a "Career". Maybe they just want to go to work, get paid and not have a five point plan to get to the executive suite.

Nobody every said on the death bed, "If only I spent more time at the office!!!"

I think Democrats look at this wrong. IMHO, what should be happening is that those holding min wage jobs should also be in training to learn a trade, or go to school to earn a degree that will propel them up the ladder to better pay...Now, if that comes as a partnership with those industries that hire at min wage, then I would be ok with that. But, to just double the wage, without any advancement is a recipe to hold people where they are at....

Okay, there's an old saying, "Life is what gets in the way of those carefully laid plans". Yes, we should all be trying to better ourselves... but how many of us are at the place we thought we'd be when we started planning our "Careers" in College?

You see, if you want to go there, it USED to be, you graduated High School, you joined a union, you did an apprenticeship, and by the time you were 25, you could provide for a family. Today, you graduate from College, you end up with a shitload of Student Debt, and maybe you are still stuck working at Starbucks for tips.

 

[JoeB131]

Do you know how much a teacher makes starting out in NC, for example? Pretty shameful that a zit faced 16 year-old ice scream scooper on summer break would be right there with him/her. This is why a $15 min. wage makes ZERO sense on a national level. NYC is not the same economy as small town USA.

whose fault is that, Cleetus? The problem with "Small Town USA" is you guys are happy in your inbred misery.

A kid working a summer job desn’t need to be making a living wage.

I guess a family with 3 kids ages 16-18 could put their 3 kids to work taking orders at a drive-thru and pull in a cool 90k extra per year.

All jobs don’t warrant a “living wage”.

Frankly, you could put a bunch of office "Professionals" in a drive through, and they wouldn't be able to keep up. That's why I love the show "Undercover boss", when they put the guy in charge in a working level position, and he's often incompetent.

 

[j-mac]

Okay, there's an old saying, "Life is what gets in the way of those carefully laid plans". Yes, we should all be trying to better ourselves... but how many of us are at the place we thought we'd be when we started planning our "Careers" in College?

Yeah? Who's fault is that? It doesn't always have to be about working more, it could be as simple as working smarter...Many of these min wage workers have never advanced past high school, and would like to do something in the trades but in today's market, where it costs somewhere around $5K to $8K to even get a CDL, or Welding certificate, they just give up...And with Colleges and Universities charging tuitions that place these students in debt for 10 years or more is a travesty, and one that Democrats never aknowledge that they opened the door to...It's almost as if Democrats creat problems so they can rush in and rail against them...

You see, if you want to go there, it USED to be, you graduated High School, you joined a union, you did an apprenticeship, and by the time you were 25, you could provide for a family. Today, you graduate from College, you end up with a shitload of Student Debt, and maybe you are still stuck working at Starbucks for tips.

I don't disagree with you on this Joe...I grew up in Lansing MI, where everyone's dad that I knew worked for GM in some capacity...The Mom's stayed home for the kids, and they lived a great middle class life, most that I know retired at around 58, (my age now)....

The shift can IMHO, be traced to when American Democrats started arguing that BOTH people in the household needed to work to sustain the enevidible "service based economy"... They told us that was the "new normal".... Now look at where we are....

Not everyone is "college material" wouldn't you agree? And if you do, then why not bring back some kind of teaching of "the trades" in High School?

The average Plumber salary in the United States is $57,961

The average Electrician I salary in the United States is $49,373

The average Truck Driver (no CDL) salary in the United States is $42,933

The average Carpenter salary in the United States is $56,929

Personal Salary Reports and Small Business Compensation Solutions | Salary.com

Maximize your salary potential with our FREE Salary Wizard or personalize your Salary to different markets with our Personal Salary Report. Employers develop a compensation strategy to determine what to pay your employees.

www.salary.com

These are good jobs that do not require a College degree, and are in shortage in the United States....

If Democrats would get on board and make a push for the trades, instead of just pushing a doubling of min wage, and soaking "the rich" in the process, then I think people would buy in, even the rich....

 

[Cecilie1200]

$15 an hour for a 16 year old burger flipper is absurd.

How about for the guy who picks up your garbage?

Fixes your car?

Does your plumbing?

You've not had your car repaired or any plumbing done in many decades, have you?

As for the guy picking up garbage, he's probably doesn't have a stellar record of great decisions, does he?

Actually, where I live, that's a pretty good decision for someone who's not overburdened with skills and experience. Good pay, excellent benefits, job security . . . Granted, it doesn't smell terrific, but the trucks do most of the heavy lifting, while the garbage collector mostly sits in the cab and listens to tunes.

Maybe where you live, but not so much in other places.

Well, the same can be said about any job situation. That's exactly why these decisions need to be made by local and state governments, rather than some blanket one-size-fits-all federal policy that assumes the entire country is alike all the way across. We have local governments precisely because not every place and group of people is alike, or wants to be.

 

[Cecilie1200]

You know, in the post you partially quoted I said that businesses may try to raise prices but will fail in the face of lower priced competition.

Businesses may try to pass on higher costs but, as has been demonstrated so many times in the airline industry, unless everyone raises their prices, no one can.

Since everyone's cost increases, everyone has to raise their prices.

And the customer response is????
C'mon! It's on the tip of your tongue!!!!!!!
Oh! too late.

The customers take their dollars elsewhere.

GEEZ! No wonder you people think lowering revenues increases revenues.

Hey, genius. What part of the word "everyone" confused you? What makes you think your policy is going to leave any "elsewhere" for them to go? You think if asinine minimum wage increases that increase operating costs and prices at McDonald's aren't also going to raise the operating costs and prices at Burger King and Wendy's?

Geez! No wonder you dimwits keep advocating economic policies that have nothing to do with actual economics.

 

[Andylusion]

I meant employers don't want or expect good work from 7.25 per hour. Nobody should work hard for that wage. So those jobs are there just for little to no productivity.

The problem with that logic, is why.

Do you know why employers don't exact good work from $7.25 per hour?

It's because they know, and the employee knows, that there is no way for them to earn less.

If the minimum wage was $2/hour, then the employer could require better employees, because if you don't work, you can go get a job paying less.

This is why almost universally as the minimum wage goes up, the quality of service everywhere starts sucking.

It cracked me up in 2010 when people started crying about how service sucked everywhere. I knew that would be the outcome. I only wish I had posted it on this forum or somewhere, so I could have pointed out how I predicted it.

And if the minimum wage goes up to $15/hour, service everywhere will crash.

By the way, your argument is actually counter to how life actually works.

Let me explain. Anyone who comes in and refuses to work hard, will always remain poor. The people who work hard, when they are only making $7.25/hour, are the people who move up and become wealthy.

Luke 16:11, Jesus says the following:
“He who is faithful in a very little thing is faithful also in much; and he who is unrighteous in a little thing is unrighteous also in much. If therefore you have not been faithful in the use of unrighteous riches, who will entrust the true riches to you?”

This is universally true. If you do not work your best, when you are making $7.25/hour, then you won't work hard when you earn more.

People that are moral and faithful with a little, will be moral and faithful with much. People who goof off, because they only make $7.25/hour, rarely move up much. Just a fact. If you suck when you make little, you'll suck when you make much.