I don't really understand the Dems' "need," for lack of a better word, for a national $15 min wage.

[JoeB131]

Yeah? Who's fault is that? It doesn't always have to be about working more, it could be as simple as working smarter...Many of these min wage workers have never advanced past high school, and would like to do something in the trades but in today's market, where it costs somewhere around $5K to $8K to even get a CDL, or Welding certificate, they just give up...And with Colleges and Universities charging tuitions that place these students in debt for 10 years or more is a travesty, and one that Democrats never aknowledge that they opened the door to...It's almost as if Democrats creat problems so they can rush in and rail against them...

How did the Democrats create this problem, exactly?

If I blame anyone, I kind of blame the businesses themselves. For most of my professional career, I've been in procurement and inventory management. Most jobs in that field require at least a bachelor's degree. Of course, what I learned about procurement and IM I learned in the Army, not college. Still the very fact I have a Bachelors in Management of Things that Have Already Happened (aka a History Degree) has given me an edge up on my contemporaries who didn't finish college. In the crash of 2008, I was able to get a new gig in a few weeks, while my buddy who only had some junior college took six months, and the woman with no college was out for nearly two years. (But she was kind of a back-stabbing bitch, so no one felt bad for her.)

I don't disagree with you on this Joe...I grew up in Lansing MI, where everyone's dad that I knew worked for GM in some capacity...The Mom's stayed home for the kids, and they lived a great middle class life, most that I know retired at around 58, (my age now)....

The shift can IMHO, be traced to when American Democrats started arguing that BOTH people in the household needed to work to sustain the enevidible "service based economy"... They told us that was the "new normal".... Now look at where we are....

Not everyone is "college material" wouldn't you agree? And if you do, then why not bring back some kind of teaching of "the trades" in High School?

I'd have no problem with that.

Of course, the Democrats never argued that "both" people in the household needed to work. The hyperinflation of the 1970's made that happen, and that was largely caused by old Tricky Dick printing money like a madman to keep the economy on a war footing.

 

[j-mac]

Yeah? Who's fault is that? It doesn't always have to be about working more, it could be as simple as working smarter...Many of these min wage workers have never advanced past high school, and would like to do something in the trades but in today's market, where it costs somewhere around $5K to $8K to even get a CDL, or Welding certificate, they just give up...And with Colleges and Universities charging tuitions that place these students in debt for 10 years or more is a travesty, and one that Democrats never aknowledge that they opened the door to...It's almost as if Democrats creat problems so they can rush in and rail against them...

How did the Democrats create this problem, exactly?

If I blame anyone, I kind of blame the businesses themselves. For most of my professional career, I've been in procurement and inventory management. Most jobs in that field require at least a bachelor's degree. Of course, what I learned about procurement and IM I learned in the Army, not college. Still the very fact I have a Bachelors in Management of Things that Have Already Happened (aka a History Degree) has given me an edge up on my contemporaries who didn't finish college. In the crash of 2008, I was able to get a new gig in a few weeks, while my buddy who only had some junior college took six months, and the woman with no college was out for nearly two years. (But she was kind of a back-stabbing bitch, so no one felt bad for her.)

I don't disagree with you on this Joe...I grew up in Lansing MI, where everyone's dad that I knew worked for GM in some capacity...The Mom's stayed home for the kids, and they lived a great middle class life, most that I know retired at around 58, (my age now)....

The shift can IMHO, be traced to when American Democrats started arguing that BOTH people in the household needed to work to sustain the enevidible "service based economy"... They told us that was the "new normal".... Now look at where we are....

Not everyone is "college material" wouldn't you agree? And if you do, then why not bring back some kind of teaching of "the trades" in High School?

I'd have no problem with that.

Of course, the Democrats never argued that "both" people in the household needed to work. The hyperinflation of the 1970's made that happen, and that was largely caused by old Tricky Dick printing money like a madman to keep the economy on a war footing.

It seems good that you could apply what you learned in the Army, and that some company on the outside was willing to take that into consideration...My Army training, as it was told to me by plenty of employers on the outside, was not applicable to what they do, so I had to make another way....

But let's be fair...You and I both sound like we are close to the same age, and surely you remember the milase of the Carter administration? During that time, I am not sure if it was an actual platform thing, but I do remember Democrats talking on news interviews, saying that our economy was moving from an industrial base, to a service based economy, and that the two person working household was "the new norm".... If you as me, that was because in the mid 70s is when you saw an insurgence of 'Social Justice' inserts into the Democratic platform...

 

[JoeB131]

But let's be fair...You and I both sound like we are close to the same age, and surely you remember the milase of the Carter administration? During that time, I am not sure if it was an actual platform thing, but I do remember Democrats talking on news interviews, saying that our economy was moving from an industrial base, to a service based economy, and that the two person working household was "the new norm".... If you as me, that was because in the mid 70s is when you saw an insurgence of 'Social Justice' inserts into the Democratic platform...

Okay, yes, the Democrats had this silly idea that America shouldn't just work for straight white men. I mean, I know, that's a crazy idea and all.

Yes, I do remember the Malaise of the Carter years. I remember the hyperinflation of the Ford years when he thought we could just wear "WIN" buttons to fight hyperinflation. I remember Tricky Dick causing this whole problem by printing up shitloads of money, and then trying to impose wage and price controls to control inflation. The end result was companies just repackaged their products to sell them at market prices, while wages remained kind of the same and didn't keep up with inflation.

As far as the conversion to a service enonomy, it should be pointed out that at no point in history was manufacturing the majority of the workforce.

Check out this chart. In 1947, when US manufacturers came out of WWII on top, less than 35% of the workforce was employed in factories. By the 1970's that had dropped to 22%. Today it's less than 10. The reasons why those jobs went away were largely due to automation more than foreign competition.

The problem with the "Service Jobs shouldn't pay a living wage" argument is that Service jobs are the largest sector in the workforce. If they can't make a living wage, we really can't sustain an economy.

 

[j-mac]

But let's be fair...You and I both sound like we are close to the same age, and surely you remember the milase of the Carter administration? During that time, I am not sure if it was an actual platform thing, but I do remember Democrats talking on news interviews, saying that our economy was moving from an industrial base, to a service based economy, and that the two person working household was "the new norm".... If you as me, that was because in the mid 70s is when you saw an insurgence of 'Social Justice' inserts into the Democratic platform...

Okay, yes, the Democrats had this silly idea that America shouldn't just work for straight white men. I mean, I know, that's a crazy idea and all.

Oh come on Joe....I don't believe that the average person out there cares one bit the color of the person owning, or operating the company they work for, as long as they get paid what they agreed to work for....Isn't it great that in this country, if one disagrees with what they are paid, or who they work for, they can find another job that suits them better?

Yes, I do remember the Malaise of the Carter years. I remember the hyperinflation of the Ford years when he thought we could just wear "WIN" buttons to fight hyperinflation. I remember Tricky Dick causing this whole problem by printing up shitloads of money, and then trying to impose wage and price controls to control inflation. The end result was companies just repackaged their products to sell them at market prices, while wages remained kind of the same and didn't keep up with inflation.

I think you are mixing a few administrations there in your analysis of the period....While it is true that the damage of taking us off of the gold standard, and starting the age of printing funny money was a huge mistake if you ask me, the folly of instituting price controls (Carter) was not only his downfall, but he, supposedly the "smartest man" to ever hold the Presidency couldn't figure out how to get out of his own policies that were driving America toward depression....

As far as the conversion to a service enonomy, it should be pointed out that at no point in history was manufacturing the majority of the workforce.

Check out this chart. In 1947, when US manufacturers came out of WWII on top, less than 35% of the workforce was employed in factories. By the 1970's that had dropped to 22%. Today it's less than 10. The reasons why those jobs went away were largely due to automation more than foreign competition.

The problem with the "Service Jobs shouldn't pay a living wage" argument is that Service jobs are the largest sector in the workforce. If they can't make a living wage, we really can't sustain an economy.

Then manufacturing is exactly what we need....Service jobs will never be able to sustain an economy IMHO, because they are not long term endevors, and don't breed innovation....Manufacturing was the driver of the middle class in this country, and what made this country the stongest in the world...It is a mistake to dismiss it now, especially with China on the march...

 

[dblack]

This debate usually breaks down to arguing over what people "deserve". But that assumes that minimum wage laws can actually achieve their nominal goal. It also assumes government has legitimate authority to dictate wages.

 

[sartre play]

Small raises over the last 9 years could have put all this insanity to rest.

 

[Markle]

You've never worked for tips, have you?

There are restaurants where the wait staff pay the restaurant. Why do you suppose that would happen?

I bet you're a lousy tipper, aren't you?

Actually, I'm a pretty good tipper, but no one should have to depend on their tips... they should be making a living wage to start with

The vast majority of folks that bet on their ability to provide excellent service and be rewarded for their effort vehemently disagree with you. If you are afraid to work for tips, don't take such a job. Problem solved!

 

[Markle]

Nobody every said on the death bed, "If only I spent more time at the office!!!"

Find yourself a job you love and you'll never work a day in your life. I'm sorry you hate your work. I LOVED mine and do wish I could have practiced for many more years.

 

[Markle]

whose fault is that, Cleetus? The problem with "Small Town USA" is you guys are happy in your inbred misery.

 

[Ava]

I don't really understand the Dems' "need," for lack of a better word, for a national $15 min wage.

Part and parcel of the Dems plan to hurt the economy. By the time people who are working from home due to the Wuhan Virus, try to go back to work there will be only half the jobs available to them that would have been if the minimum wage is not jacked up. Back to obama's dirty tricks for destroying the economy.

“We are going to have to change our conversation; we’re going to have to change our traditions, our history; we’re going to have to move into a different place as a nation.” — Michelle Obama, May 14, 2008

“We are five days away from fundamentally transforming the United States of America.” — Barack Obama, October 30, 2008

 

[Markle]

Small raises over the last 9 years could have put all this insanity to rest.

As you know, wages did increase over the past ten years.

In 2010, the average wage in the US was $39,036.67.

In 2019, the average wage in the US had increased to $50,040.96.

Average Wage Index (AWI)

Cost of Living Adjustment

www.ssa.gov

President Trump did a great job of creating an economy whereby the lowest-income workers wages increased faster than their bosses and reduced unemployment to historic lows.

Pretty great isn't it?

 

[Markle]

Yeah? Who's fault is that? It doesn't always have to be about working more, it could be as simple as working smarter...Many of these min wage workers have never advanced past high school, and would like to do something in the trades but in today's market, where it costs somewhere around $5K to $8K to even get a CDL, or Welding certificate, they just give up...And with Colleges and Universities charging tuitions that place these students in debt for 10 years or more is a travesty, and one that Democrats never aknowledge that they opened the door to...It's almost as if Democrats creat problems so they can rush in and rail against them...

How did the Democrats create this problem, exactly?

If I blame anyone, I kind of blame the businesses themselves. For most of my professional career, I've been in procurement and inventory management. Most jobs in that field require at least a bachelor's degree. Of course, what I learned about procurement and IM I learned in the Army, not college. Still the very fact I have a Bachelors in Management of Things that Have Already Happened (aka a History Degree) has given me an edge up on my contemporaries who didn't finish college. In the crash of 2008, I was able to get a new gig in a few weeks, while my buddy who only had some junior college took six months, and the woman with no college was out for nearly two years. (But she was kind of a back-stabbing bitch, so no one felt bad for her.)

I don't disagree with you on this Joe...I grew up in Lansing MI, where everyone's dad that I knew worked for GM in some capacity...The Mom's stayed home for the kids, and they lived a great middle class life, most that I know retired at around 58, (my age now)....

The shift can IMHO, be traced to when American Democrats started arguing that BOTH people in the household needed to work to sustain the enevidible "service based economy"... They told us that was the "new normal".... Now look at where we are....

Not everyone is "college material" wouldn't you agree? And if you do, then why not bring back some kind of teaching of "the trades" in High School?

I'd have no problem with that.

Of course, the Democrats never argued that "both" people in the household needed to work. The hyperinflation of the 1970's made that happen, and that was largely caused by old Tricky Dick printing money like a madman to keep the economy on a war footing.

Of course, you blame the BUSINESSES. Who else?

The cost of tuition in colleges has skyrocketed for the same reason any price increases. The government, the Democrats, believe EVERYONE MUST go to college. So, the Democrats made LOANS easier and easier to come by and WOW, the unrealistic demand, and easily available money resulted in...HIGHER TUITION PRICES. Their solution to higher tuition? Why easier loans of course!

Hey, what could go wrong?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Yeah? Who's fault is that? It doesn't always have to be about working more, it could be as simple as working smarter...Many of these min wage workers have never advanced past high school, and would like to do something in the trades but in today's market, where it costs somewhere around $5K to $8K to even get a CDL, or Welding certificate, they just give up...And with Colleges and Universities charging tuitions that place these students in debt for 10 years or more is a travesty, and one that Democrats never aknowledge that they opened the door to...It's almost as if Democrats creat problems so they can rush in and rail against them...

How did the Democrats create this problem, exactly?

If I blame anyone, I kind of blame the businesses themselves. For most of my professional career, I've been in procurement and inventory management. Most jobs in that field require at least a bachelor's degree. Of course, what I learned about procurement and IM I learned in the Army, not college. Still the very fact I have a Bachelors in Management of Things that Have Already Happened (aka a History Degree) has given me an edge up on my contemporaries who didn't finish college. In the crash of 2008, I was able to get a new gig in a few weeks, while my buddy who only had some junior college took six months, and the woman with no college was out for nearly two years. (But she was kind of a back-stabbing bitch, so no one felt bad for her.)

I don't disagree with you on this Joe...I grew up in Lansing MI, where everyone's dad that I knew worked for GM in some capacity...The Mom's stayed home for the kids, and they lived a great middle class life, most that I know retired at around 58, (my age now)....

The shift can IMHO, be traced to when American Democrats started arguing that BOTH people in the household needed to work to sustain the enevidible "service based economy"... They told us that was the "new normal".... Now look at where we are....

Not everyone is "college material" wouldn't you agree? And if you do, then why not bring back some kind of teaching of "the trades" in High School?

I'd have no problem with that.

Of course, the Democrats never argued that "both" people in the household needed to work. The hyperinflation of the 1970's made that happen, and that was largely caused by old Tricky Dick printing money like a madman to keep the economy on a war footing.

It seems good that you could apply what you learned in the Army, and that some company on the outside was willing to take that into consideration...My Army training, as it was told to me by plenty of employers on the outside, was not applicable to what they do, so I had to make another way....

But let's be fair...You and I both sound like we are close to the same age, and surely you remember the milase of the Carter administration? During that time, I am not sure if it was an actual platform thing, but I do remember Democrats talking on news interviews, saying that our economy was moving from an industrial base, to a service based economy, and that the two person working household was "the new norm".... If you as me, that was because in the mid 70s is when you saw an insurgence of 'Social Justice' inserts into the Democratic platform...

milase? WTF is that!

 

[Markle]

Yeah? Who's fault is that? It doesn't always have to be about working more, it could be as simple as working smarter...Many of these min wage workers have never advanced past high school, and would like to do something in the trades but in today's market, where it costs somewhere around $5K to $8K to even get a CDL, or Welding certificate, they just give up...And with Colleges and Universities charging tuitions that place these students in debt for 10 years or more is a travesty, and one that Democrats never aknowledge that they opened the door to...It's almost as if Democrats creat problems so they can rush in and rail against them...

How did the Democrats create this problem, exactly?

If I blame anyone, I kind of blame the businesses themselves. For most of my professional career, I've been in procurement and inventory management. Most jobs in that field require at least a bachelor's degree. Of course, what I learned about procurement and IM I learned in the Army, not college. Still the very fact I have a Bachelors in Management of Things that Have Already Happened (aka a History Degree) has given me an edge up on my contemporaries who didn't finish college. In the crash of 2008, I was able to get a new gig in a few weeks, while my buddy who only had some junior college took six months, and the woman with no college was out for nearly two years. (But she was kind of a back-stabbing bitch, so no one felt bad for her.)

I don't disagree with you on this Joe...I grew up in Lansing MI, where everyone's dad that I knew worked for GM in some capacity...The Mom's stayed home for the kids, and they lived a great middle class life, most that I know retired at around 58, (my age now)....

The shift can IMHO, be traced to when American Democrats started arguing that BOTH people in the household needed to work to sustain the enevidible "service based economy"... They told us that was the "new normal".... Now look at where we are....

Not everyone is "college material" wouldn't you agree? And if you do, then why not bring back some kind of teaching of "the trades" in High School?

I'd have no problem with that.

Of course, the Democrats never argued that "both" people in the household needed to work. The hyperinflation of the 1970's made that happen, and that was largely caused by old Tricky Dick printing money like a madman to keep the economy on a war footing.

It seems good that you could apply what you learned in the Army, and that some company on the outside was willing to take that into consideration...My Army training, as it was told to me by plenty of employers on the outside, was not applicable to what they do, so I had to make another way....

But let's be fair...You and I both sound like we are close to the same age, and surely you remember the milase of the Carter administration? During that time, I am not sure if it was an actual platform thing, but I do remember Democrats talking on news interviews, saying that our economy was moving from an industrial base, to a service based economy, and that the two person working household was "the new norm".... If you as me, that was because in the mid 70s is when you saw an insurgence of 'Social Justice' inserts into the Democratic platform...

milase? WTF is that!

That's your response? When you are backed into a corner, instead of conceding a point, you go on the attack. It does not have to be anything relevant, just something about which you can attack and divert attention from your ignorance.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Yeah? Who's fault is that? It doesn't always have to be about working more, it could be as simple as working smarter...Many of these min wage workers have never advanced past high school, and would like to do something in the trades but in today's market, where it costs somewhere around $5K to $8K to even get a CDL, or Welding certificate, they just give up...And with Colleges and Universities charging tuitions that place these students in debt for 10 years or more is a travesty, and one that Democrats never aknowledge that they opened the door to...It's almost as if Democrats creat problems so they can rush in and rail against them...

How did the Democrats create this problem, exactly?

If I blame anyone, I kind of blame the businesses themselves. For most of my professional career, I've been in procurement and inventory management. Most jobs in that field require at least a bachelor's degree. Of course, what I learned about procurement and IM I learned in the Army, not college. Still the very fact I have a Bachelors in Management of Things that Have Already Happened (aka a History Degree) has given me an edge up on my contemporaries who didn't finish college. In the crash of 2008, I was able to get a new gig in a few weeks, while my buddy who only had some junior college took six months, and the woman with no college was out for nearly two years. (But she was kind of a back-stabbing bitch, so no one felt bad for her.)

I don't disagree with you on this Joe...I grew up in Lansing MI, where everyone's dad that I knew worked for GM in some capacity...The Mom's stayed home for the kids, and they lived a great middle class life, most that I know retired at around 58, (my age now)....

The shift can IMHO, be traced to when American Democrats started arguing that BOTH people in the household needed to work to sustain the enevidible "service based economy"... They told us that was the "new normal".... Now look at where we are....

Not everyone is "college material" wouldn't you agree? And if you do, then why not bring back some kind of teaching of "the trades" in High School?

I'd have no problem with that.

Of course, the Democrats never argued that "both" people in the household needed to work. The hyperinflation of the 1970's made that happen, and that was largely caused by old Tricky Dick printing money like a madman to keep the economy on a war footing.

It seems good that you could apply what you learned in the Army, and that some company on the outside was willing to take that into consideration...My Army training, as it was told to me by plenty of employers on the outside, was not applicable to what they do, so I had to make another way....

But let's be fair...You and I both sound like we are close to the same age, and surely you remember the milase of the Carter administration? During that time, I am not sure if it was an actual platform thing, but I do remember Democrats talking on news interviews, saying that our economy was moving from an industrial base, to a service based economy, and that the two person working household was "the new norm".... If you as me, that was because in the mid 70s is when you saw an insurgence of 'Social Justice' inserts into the Democratic platform...

milase? WTF is that!

That's your response? When you are backed into a corner, instead of conceding a point, you go on the attack. It does not have to be anything relevant, just something about which you can attack and divert attention from your ignorance.

I am not arguing your point dumbass. I just was to know what milae is. Is is similar to corn, like "maize"? Is it supposed to be "milage"? How about "mileage"?

Spell check is useful. Grow up and admit your own shortcomings before accusing others.

 

[Andylusion]

Yeah? Who's fault is that? It doesn't always have to be about working more, it could be as simple as working smarter...Many of these min wage workers have never advanced past high school, and would like to do something in the trades but in today's market, where it costs somewhere around $5K to $8K to even get a CDL, or Welding certificate, they just give up...And with Colleges and Universities charging tuitions that place these students in debt for 10 years or more is a travesty, and one that Democrats never aknowledge that they opened the door to...It's almost as if Democrats creat problems so they can rush in and rail against them...

How did the Democrats create this problem, exactly?

If I blame anyone, I kind of blame the businesses themselves. For most of my professional career, I've been in procurement and inventory management. Most jobs in that field require at least a bachelor's degree. Of course, what I learned about procurement and IM I learned in the Army, not college. Still the very fact I have a Bachelors in Management of Things that Have Already Happened (aka a History Degree) has given me an edge up on my contemporaries who didn't finish college. In the crash of 2008, I was able to get a new gig in a few weeks, while my buddy who only had some junior college took six months, and the woman with no college was out for nearly two years. (But she was kind of a back-stabbing bitch, so no one felt bad for her.)

I don't disagree with you on this Joe...I grew up in Lansing MI, where everyone's dad that I knew worked for GM in some capacity...The Mom's stayed home for the kids, and they lived a great middle class life, most that I know retired at around 58, (my age now)....

The shift can IMHO, be traced to when American Democrats started arguing that BOTH people in the household needed to work to sustain the enevidible "service based economy"... They told us that was the "new normal".... Now look at where we are....

Not everyone is "college material" wouldn't you agree? And if you do, then why not bring back some kind of teaching of "the trades" in High School?

I'd have no problem with that.

Of course, the Democrats never argued that "both" people in the household needed to work. The hyperinflation of the 1970's made that happen, and that was largely caused by old Tricky Dick printing money like a madman to keep the economy on a war footing.

How did the Democrats create this problem, exactly?

By subsidizing schools. When you subsidize anything, the cost goes up. This is normal.

In the crash of 2008, I was able to get a new gig in a few weeks, while my buddy who only had some junior college took six months, and the woman with no college was out for nearly two years. (But she was kind of a back-stabbing bitch, so no one felt bad for her.)

So I have no degree, and I have no skills, and I didn't go to the military either. I too, was easily able to find a job in 2008. I had no problems finding a job at all. In fact, when I was laid off in 2020, I had a job offer by September, and that is without me even filing out an application. The company searched and found me.

Again, no degrees. No education. Nothing.

The lady that had no college and was out of work for two years, you openly said she was a back-stabbing b!tch.

Well... I'd suggest her attitude and behavior is a much larger reason for her being out of work, than her lack of college.

I've never had a problem getting a job. Never. There is always someone willing to hire and pay you to do something.

And by the way, I know people who have college degrees and can't find work.

Still the very fact I have a Bachelors in Management of Things that Have Already Happened (aka a History Degree) has given me an edge up on my contemporaries who didn't finish college.

That is certainly true. Obviously if you and another person show up to interview for a job, and you both are entirely equal other than the degree, then likely they'll pick you over the one without a degree.

Just like if you show up with military service, and the other does not. Or anything else. I've even known employers that hired someone, because they volunteered at a charity. No degrees or anything else, but they helped out at the soup kitchen.

So nearly everything can give you an advantage over your contemporaries.

That said, in the end, it takes hard work and effort, and those will ultimately win out.

I have told this story before, of my barbers wife, and his sister. His wife never even attempted to go to college. Her sister has a Ph.D. Today, his wife after working hard since her first day out of high school, is now general manager of the Mortgage department of the bank, and makes $150,000 a year. Her sister with the Ph.D, makes $30,000 a year. Not only does she make more than her sister by being general manager of the mortgage department, but I make more money than her Ph.D sister, and I'm not at a bank, or a manager of anything.

Of course, the Democrats never argued that "both" people in the household needed to work. The hyperinflation of the 1970's made that happen, and that was largely caused by old Tricky Dick printing money like a madman to keep the economy on a war footing.

Richard Nixon - Key Events | Miller Center

millercenter.org

January 4, 1971​

Keynesian economics​

Nixon tells an ABC news commentator that he is now a “Keynesian,” or one who subscribes to the ideal (of Keynesian economics) that government spending could break a recession. This was unusual for a Republican president.​

Nixon openly said, and economically practiced Kaynesian ideology. That's what caused the damage.

Which by the way, we're on the same path today, thanks to Obama and Trump.

 

[Markle]

Yeah? Who's fault is that? It doesn't always have to be about working more, it could be as simple as working smarter...Many of these min wage workers have never advanced past high school, and would like to do something in the trades but in today's market, where it costs somewhere around $5K to $8K to even get a CDL, or Welding certificate, they just give up...And with Colleges and Universities charging tuitions that place these students in debt for 10 years or more is a travesty, and one that Democrats never aknowledge that they opened the door to...It's almost as if Democrats creat problems so they can rush in and rail against them...

How did the Democrats create this problem, exactly?

If I blame anyone, I kind of blame the businesses themselves. For most of my professional career, I've been in procurement and inventory management. Most jobs in that field require at least a bachelor's degree. Of course, what I learned about procurement and IM I learned in the Army, not college. Still the very fact I have a Bachelors in Management of Things that Have Already Happened (aka a History Degree) has given me an edge up on my contemporaries who didn't finish college. In the crash of 2008, I was able to get a new gig in a few weeks, while my buddy who only had some junior college took six months, and the woman with no college was out for nearly two years. (But she was kind of a back-stabbing bitch, so no one felt bad for her.)

I don't disagree with you on this Joe...I grew up in Lansing MI, where everyone's dad that I knew worked for GM in some capacity...The Mom's stayed home for the kids, and they lived a great middle class life, most that I know retired at around 58, (my age now)....

The shift can IMHO, be traced to when American Democrats started arguing that BOTH people in the household needed to work to sustain the enevidible "service based economy"... They told us that was the "new normal".... Now look at where we are....

Not everyone is "college material" wouldn't you agree? And if you do, then why not bring back some kind of teaching of "the trades" in High School?

I'd have no problem with that.

Of course, the Democrats never argued that "both" people in the household needed to work. The hyperinflation of the 1970's made that happen, and that was largely caused by old Tricky Dick printing money like a madman to keep the economy on a war footing.

It seems good that you could apply what you learned in the Army, and that some company on the outside was willing to take that into consideration...My Army training, as it was told to me by plenty of employers on the outside, was not applicable to what they do, so I had to make another way....

But let's be fair...You and I both sound like we are close to the same age, and surely you remember the milase of the Carter administration? During that time, I am not sure if it was an actual platform thing, but I do remember Democrats talking on news interviews, saying that our economy was moving from an industrial base, to a service based economy, and that the two person working household was "the new norm".... If you as me, that was because in the mid 70s is when you saw an insurgence of 'Social Justice' inserts into the Democratic platform...

milase? WTF is that!

That's your response? When you are backed into a corner, instead of conceding a point, you go on the attack. It does not have to be anything relevant, just something about which you can attack and divert attention from your ignorance.

I am not arguing your point dumbass. I just was to know what milae is. Is is similar to corn, like "maize"? Is it supposed to be "milage"? How about "mileage"?

Spell check is useful. Grow up and admit your own shortcomings before accusing others.

 

[JoeB131]

Oh come on Joe....I don't believe that the average person out there cares one bit the color of the person owning, or operating the company they work for, as long as they get paid what they agreed to work for....Isn't it great that in this country, if one disagrees with what they are paid, or who they work for, they can find another job that suits them better?

Um, yeah. For those playing along at home, I have a business where I help people shape up their resumes and improve their job hunting. What I can tell you is that there are a lot of awful bosses out there. Some are racists, some are sexual harassers, some are just plain old jerks.

Most of us don't have the ability to "just walk away". If you get fired, your next employer will want to know why, and they never accept, "My boss was an asshole". If you quit, they tend to question your loyalty. Really, the only time it is acceptable to change jobs is if the company goes out of business or has to do mass layoff because of economic realities.

This is what is truly fucked up with an at-will employment, the wage slave is always at a disadvantage.

I think you are mixing a few administrations there in your analysis of the period....While it is true that the damage of taking us off of the gold standard, and starting the age of printing funny money was a huge mistake if you ask me, the folly of instituting price controls (Carter) was not only his downfall, but he, supposedly the "smartest man" to ever hold the Presidency couldn't figure out how to get out of his own policies that were driving America toward depression....

Actually, Carter wasn't a great president, but most of the problems he encountered were baked into the pie when he got there. Reagan's "solution' was to gut the middle class to control inflation and benefit the One Percent. I don't think that was a good thing, either.

Then manufacturing is exactly what we need....Service jobs will never be able to sustain an economy IMHO, because they are not long term endevors, and don't breed innovation....Manufacturing was the driver of the middle class in this country, and what made this country the stongest in the world...It is a mistake to dismiss it now, especially with China on the march...

Um. No.

Manufacturing is becoming like agriculture was. The fact is, our factories put out far more materials now than they did in 1947 , when 33% of the population was employed in manufacturing. But you can do a lot of manufacturing without people. The biggest killer of manufacturing jobs was not competition from China, it was automation. Back in the Oughts, I spent a lot of time visiting factories that make corrugated boxes. They employed very few people, most of the work was done by machines. You had one machine that made the board by gluing paper together, you had another that printed the boxes, and another that cut and folded them. One person could operate two or three machines.

The other thing I found out. the real money isn't in manufacturing, it's in resale and distribution. As the old saying goes, "the Middle Man always makes a profit."

 

[Dirk the Daring]

Byrd Rule, politics threaten $15 per hour minimum wage

Democrats face a series of steep political and procedural challenges as they plot a path to raise the minimum wage to $15 per hour using a budgetary process known as reconciliation that would sides…

thehill.com

I don't doubt or disagree with NYC or other urban areas, esp progressive ones, logically wanting the raise. Or the need of workers. But in rural states, min wage jobs sometimes just supplement rural life of raising and growing one's own food. It will kill jobs, because the people who buy retail goods are the same ones working the jobs. Employers will consolidate gas stations, small grocery's and maybe even Wal-Marts. It just seems typical leftwing elitism to think places like Ala and Miss and WV can't figure out their own state economies.

The Democrats want to raise the minimum wage to the point where employers will choose to automate their businesses, reduce staff, or eliminate low-wage workers altogether. We're already seeing this in the fast food and hospitality industries.

The Democrats' goal is, of course, to drive low-wage workers to unemployment and then onto welfare, where they can be more easily controlled. If the government is paying for your food rather than your employer, wouldn't you be more "willing" to go along with things like mandatory vaccines, only "approved" content on your social media, not questioning what your kids are being taught in school, etc.?

The government paying for our food,

Trump's Road to Socialism | Tho Bishop

So corporate farms can get billions but working stiffs shouldn't be able to make enough to survive on?

if you are a "working stiff" and the best you can do is a minimum wage job, you made some serious mistakes in your life.

Yeah, like not demanding the government stop the businesses from shipping the jobs overseas.

Do you know WHY businesses ship jobs overseas?

Greedy bastards.

You get half credit which is honestly better than I was expecting. Here's the plot twist though, YOU'RE THE GREEDY BASTARD responsible.

It's not about me.

Are you a consumer in this economy? Do you buy stuff? If so, then it is ALL ABOUT YOU. When you want to buy something, do you seek out the HIGHEST price? Or the lowest?

 

[JoeB131]

The lady that had no college and was out of work for two years, you openly said she was a back-stabbing b!tch.

Well... I'd suggest her attitude and behavior is a much larger reason for her being out of work, than her lack of college.

Well, yeah, if her potential employers ever talked to her co-workers... they didn't, obviously. Heck, if they had asked me, I'd have probably said nice things because I'm a nice guy.

That is certainly true. Obviously if you and another person show up to interview for a job, and you both are entirely equal other than the degree, then likely they'll pick you over the one without a degree.

Just like if you show up with military service, and the other does not. Or anything else. I've even known employers that hired someone, because they volunteered at a charity. No degrees or anything else, but they helped out at the soup kitchen.

Here's the underlying thing... Hiring as an institution is broken. You pick out the five best resumes to talk to, but usually, those resumes were written by someone else. (For those playing along at home, I have a resume writing business, so I am DEFINITELY part of the problem.) So all you are judging there is who hired the best resume writer. then you have the interview process... which is usually done by committee, not any one person making the decision anymore. That becomes a contest of who can bullshit his way best.

Now, all those flaws notwithstanding, usually most people who are eventually selected can do the job, it they are properly guided. The problem is, most businesses have "managers" and not "leaders", so usually you are relying on someone's motivation and initiative. Most of the places I've worked over the years worked well because the employees, not because of the managers. Places with micromanagers are usually miserable places to work.

January 4, 1971Keynesian economicsNixon tells an ABC news commentator that he is now a “Keynesian,” or one who subscribes to the ideal (of Keynesian economics) that government spending could break a recession. This was unusual for a Republican president.
Nixon openly said, and economically practiced Kaynesian ideology. That's what caused the damage.

Which by the way, we're on the same path today, thanks to Obama and Trump.

Well, here's the thing. We've never had a true Keynesian. A true Keynesian picks up spending when times are tough to prime the economy, and then ratchets back on spending when times are good to pay down debts. We've never really had that with ANY president. The closest was Reagan, who did massively increase spending during the 1981-83 recession, and made some attempts to cut back spending.

The real problem is, we haven't had "supply side" either. Supply side is a true fantasy.
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