The Original Tree
Diamond Member
- Dec 8, 2016
- 41,125
- 17,973
So tell me, Lakhota, what SPECIFICALLY would you say is an Impeachable offense committed by President Trump? Here is a hint: Obstruction is not specific.
Thank you MarathonMike
Dear Lakhota
the problem with arguing about
* conflicts of interest and emoluments
* collusion and obstruction of justice
What we normally understand as common sense ETHICS that these terms SHOULD MEAN
is NOT the SAME as the LEGAL DEFINITIONS that require burden of proof to be met.
That's how politicians and lawyers wheedle around these "gray areas" by playing within the "letter of the law" and totally violating the SPIRIT of the laws.
The Legal System and burden of proof in pursuing FORMAL process is based on the LETTER (while people use the Media to argue against abuses by the SPIRIT of the laws)
What to you is "common sense" "obstruction of justice" is not necessarily
the actionable legal definition that constitutes a LITERAL violation.
Lakhota I'm as sorry as anyone outraged on BOTH sides
to see these abuses go unchecked because the legal system is so easily abused.
The best way I know to address this is NOT WAIT until after it becomes a legal issue, because the system is so monopolized by "legalese" and "legal interests"
that it does not work the way we want it to.
But to AGREE to work on PREVENTING ABUSES in the first place.
If we wait until "after the fact" then everyone makes a political battle out of it
and we will go in circles getting nowhere.
If we focus on prevention and correction, ON ALL SIDES,
not just for political convenience of one over the other,
then only the TRULY ETHICAL LEADERS will have any such
interest in cleaning up ALL CAMPS. Those will respond to our demands
to clean up corruption, if they are serious. We must agree to get politics
out of the process, if we want SINCERE people to help who aren't in it for politics.
President pressures FBI leadership to drop investigation into a guilty cabinet member.
In what world is that not an Obstruction of Justice by both letter and spirit of the law?
Dear antonio cc Lakhota
There has to be actions that are clearly OUTSIDE
normal executive authority to hire and fire at discretion.
Again, it's not about our common sense perception of this,
but what can be established and proven legally (including INTENT
which is hard to prove).
Another problem with Trump is that he mouths off all the time PERSONALLY.
Similar to when Madonna mouthed off about "thinking of blowing up the White House". She was found not to be a viable threat of actually doing that.
(Likewise with the PEOPLE pushed to resign or get fired, because of their
conflicted backgrounds; the history or APPEARANCE of political
conflicting and biased interests merely fueled the arguments
that the President had reason to remove them. That didn't help either.)
If there is room for doubt, the benefit goes in favor of the person
not the accuser that still retains burden of proof.
NOTE: If you ask me, where I also draw lines where others do not
1. I heard on the radio someone saying the President could instruct
lawyers to lie to the public through media if that serves the best interest of the country "as long as it's not under oath"
2. I disagree. I would AGREE that the President and these lawyers have free speech and can chose to omit and NOT share information. But if they are PRESENTING INFORMATION Publicly, I DO NOT AGREE they have any right to "lie" (omissions are allowed as long as there is not MISREPRESENTATION, FRAUD, or "LIES" going on).
Any jury would convict Trump on corrupt intent. It’s pretty damn clear cut case, because there are simply no not-corrupt motives that could possibly explain a president pressuring FBI director to drop investigation into a guilty man.
And let’s not forget 10 other episodes that establish a pattern of obstruction for our swamp king POTUS.
Sure Snowflake.
NOT GUILTY is what a jury renders when there is insufficient evidence.
Moscow Mueller, Obama's personal political assassin Clowned it Up for 2 Years and still could not take out The President.
Now go back to your Putin Sex Robot and take your frustrations out on him