I may have gotten the impeachment thing all wrong

[Ray From Cleveland]

Come on man, are you seriously trying to make the case that the Dems didnt try and get these things while in the house?! You need to find a better argument.

Ignoring Executive Privilege is not a valid attempt to 'get things'.

Nadler tried to 'get things' to when he ordered the US AG, the top law ENFORCER in the United States, to BREAK THE LAW....and then CENSURED him for REFUELING to BREAK THE LAW!

You need to abandon this argument.

The admin has never claimed executive privilege. Not one time.

They never had a chance to. You claim that in court, not to the House.

 

[easyt65]

You are right in your assessment. The bottom line is this: Trumpers do not care that Trump sought to abuse his office, extort a nation state and demand a quid pro quo. They will gladly concede that he did so. They contend that Trump did not commit a crime and therefore he cannot be impeached, convicted and removed from office. That is their argument.

So, their reasoning is if it is not a crime and a President can only be impeached for a crime the impeachment proceeding was invalid. (There is considerable evidence in the Federalist Papers among other sources that this view is wrong and in my opinion it is. You don't need a crime to impeach a president).

So what Trumpers are saying is if the President wants to declassify our nuclear codes and give them to his good friend and likely handler, V. Putin, or publish them on the internet, he can do so because the President can declassify information and if he wants to do that, well that is his prerogative. Declassifying intelligence is a presidential prerogative therefor non-impeachable.

But Trumpers go beyond that even.

Trump himself argues that while in office the president is immune form prosecution. That is similar to the laws of immunity they have in Brazil for its president. Trump's attorneys have argued that if Trump shoots someone on fifth avenue, commits rape, mass murder, whatever he is still immune from prosecution while in office.

That is their view.

Welcome to Trumplandia.

Impeachment is the resolution for a President that was guilty of committing a misdemeanor, high crime, bribery or treason. Trump did none of these things. Now if you want to go down this road that a crime is not needed, remember your team set is setting that precedent right now, and payback is a bitch.

So, the precedent you are fine with is that any President of the United States can use the powers of the presidency to force and coerce another nation state to spy on a domestic political opponent for personal and political gain. Let's take that further. Your view is that Trump can use the State Department as own personal foreign relations office and the DOJ as his own personal praetorian guard. That is what Trump is doing and apparently you are fine with it. Yeah..don't give me that crap about payback. It is the nation that will be forever scarred by the actions of the maniac in office and those that have enabled him.

The Precedent you want to set is To MAKE AN UNFOUNDED ACCUSATION, and Then Violate Every Civil Right and DUE PROCESS there is to try to Prove Your False Accusation True.

You have no evidence. You cannot even cite a violation of US Code.

That is not the point. Contrary to what you say there is overwhelming evidence that Trump sought a quid pro quo from Zelensky. The point is most Trump supporters don't care he extorted a nation state. You just don't.

Even if Trump did, and even if it could be proven, how is that different than what Joe Biden did?

Joe Biden gave a videotaped confession of extorting the former Ukraine PM and implicated former President Obama as directing it / being in on it.

 

[blackhawk]

The truth is the Senate Republicans are not acting any different than the House Democrats did when they were calling the shots in their part of the impeachment process. Sorry if the shoe now being on the other foot sucks for some but as someone famously said elections have consequences.

 

[Care4all]

The charge of abuse of power rests on the claim that the President wanted the investigation of the Bidens to advance his chances for reelection, so the only relevant witnesses or documents would have to directly show that was his motivation and clearly, the House was unable to find and such witnesses or documents so all the fuss the Democrats are making is just to extend their political stunt to advance their own political interests.

As I posted citing multiple sources earlier - here's another:

"Officials in Ukraine reportedly opened an investigation into an energy company that employed former Vice President Joe Biden’s son long before President Donald Trump’s July 25 nothing-burger of a telephone call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky that spurred the Democrats’ haphazard, increasingly Kafkaesque impeachment inquiry.

The time element of the revelation, devastating as it is to the 2016-election-nullification push disguised as an impeachment process, has been largely ignored by the mainstream media which is overly preoccupied –as usual— attacking President Trump."

How can someone pressure someone else into doing something they are already doing?

Just one of the devastating facts against the Democrats' Impeachment - COUP attempt....


Ukraine Was Investigating Hunter Biden Before Trump’s Phone Call

Of course they were, Giuliani has been working on this scam for over a year. He started with the previous administration, inviting the previous prosecutor Lutsenko to meet with him in New York....

And Lutsenko said he'd do Giuliani the "favor" if GIuliani would get Ambassador Yavanovich fired and removed. THE FIRST illegal, quid pro quo.

Lutsenko was corrupt and Yavanovich was trying to root out the corrupt... She was getting in his way....

So Giuliani, Solomon, Parnas, Victoria and Joe DiGenova, Don Junior, Trump, and Rep Sessions from Texas, who was paid an illegal bribe by Parnas via illegal campaign donation, to all campaign and promote a smear campaign on our US Ambassador Yavonovich, AND GOT HER FIRED as the Ukraine Ambassador.

When Lutsenko's boss was not reelected, he came out And reported he found NO WRONG DOING by Hunter Biden, no crimes, and how much money someone is paid, No matter how much, is not a crime.....in the Ukraine.

 

[OKTexas]

I’ve been pretty outspoken on how bad of an idea I thought this impeachment move would be for our government and our country. I saw the transition from the House to the Republican controlled Senate bringing a change in focus from Trumps actions to Biden corruption. It doesn’t appear that the Republicans are taking that route. I’ve seen the conservative media blitz working overtime on Biden corruption trying to shine the spotlight on that narrative, that tactic is in full swing, but in the capitol it looks like a race to dismissal.

It was rather astonishing to listen to the Republicans dismiss amendment after amendment after clear documentation and witnesses were presented that would add direct supporting material to the accusations.

It is very clear that the Republicans are not interested in finding the truth, seeing the facts, or even allowing the Dems to use the facts to present their case. They seem to just want to defend the president and dismiss the case. It stinks to high heaven and coming from somebody who doesn’t think Trump should be impeached I will say this path that Trump and the Reps are going down is looking more and more like a dirty cover up. When I first heard the Dems use that term it sounded like political hyperbole... After day 1 it’s sounding pretty spot on

What you pool little creatures fail to realize is only one of the proposed "amendments" had a damn thing to do with the procedures of the trail, which was being considered. Of course the commies in the house and the senate conspired on those "amendments" and had professionally prepared presentations for each one. Now we know what the 33 day delay in transmitting the articles were all about. Can you say collusion between almost half of the jury and the prosecutors?

Then nadless had the temerity to accuse the republicans of treachery for voting down the irrelevant "amendments", can you imagine a prosecutor accusing the jury of treason? It's clear nadless never took the Dale Carnegie course.

.

 

[toomuchtime_]

The House had their clown show and nobody on the left objected. They did what they want, silenced who they wanted, and conducted it their way. Now the Senate is doing the same, and all of a sudden it's unfair.

Let me tell you what's unfair, and that is having this impeachment without knowing who is responsible for making the charges. The so-called whistleblower is anonymous, so is the person that provided him or her the information, and they cannot be addressed.

Can you tell me why the Senate Republicans would help the Democrats after these phony charges were made; charges with no crime; charges that aren't even impeachable according to the US Constitution? It's ridiculous already. The Senate Republicans are not going to support the deep state. Election is less than a year away, if Americans don't want Trump in office anymore, that should be our decision, not the commies.

The house did an inquiry. The senate is responsible for having a trial. Two very different things and as I just said. Two wrongs, don’t make a right

And the Senate IS having a trial, but they are not about to allow the Democrats tell them how to proceed with one or extend their clown show with the House. You wanted an impeachment trial, then here it is. If you don't like how they are conducting it, then it's only fair because we didn't like how they conducted their inquiry.

why do you think it’s a clown show to see documents showing direct communication and witnesses who had direct access to trumps directives? Wouldn’t that clear Trump if he did nothing wrong?

The charge of abuse of power rests on the claim that the President wanted the investigation of the Bidens to advance his chances for reelection, so the only relevant witnesses or documents would have to directly show that was his motivation and clearly, the House was unable to find and such witnesses or documents so all the fuss the Democrats are making is just to extend their political stunt to advance their own political interests.

I agree that the Dems messed up emphasizing the “political interest”point. It’s very hard to prove intent, even when it’s obvious. There should be a process to follow when working with foreign countries to investigate political rivals. If that system isn’t in place then it needs to be set up. If it is in place and Trump didn’t follow it then he should be held accountable. He held up funds to progress this investigation agenda, that was deemed illegal. He used his personal attorney instead of regular channels to pursue his agenda, there could be something wrong there too. And he’s blocked information and spread false narratives in the aftermath which is not OK. There’s a lot of crap there

The bottom line is that if the President didn't seek the investigation of events in Ukraine around the 2016, including the actions of the Bidens, for personal reasons, then there are no grounds for charging abuse of power and no legitimate grounds for impeachment. Add to that the fact that there never was a possibility the President would be convicted, and the conclusion that the Democrats hijacked the House of Representatives, trashed the Constitution, worked to undermine US policy both at home and abroad to advance their own political fortunes is inescapable, and we can only hope voters will hold them accountable in November.

 

[JLW]

You are right in your assessment. The bottom line is this: Trumpers do not care that Trump sought to abuse his office, extort a nation state and demand a quid pro quo. They will gladly concede that he did so. They contend that Trump did not commit a crime and therefore he cannot be impeached, convicted and removed from office. That is their argument.

So, their reasoning is if it is not a crime and a President can only be impeached for a crime the impeachment proceeding was invalid. (There is considerable evidence in the Federalist Papers among other sources that this view is wrong and in my opinion it is. You don't need a crime to impeach a president).

So what Trumpers are saying is if the President wants to declassify our nuclear codes and give them to his good friend and likely handler, V. Putin, or publish them on the internet, he can do so because the President can declassify information and if he wants to do that, well that is his prerogative. Declassifying intelligence is a presidential prerogative therefor non-impeachable.

But Trumpers go beyond that even.

Trump himself argues that while in office the president is immune form prosecution. That is similar to the laws of immunity they have in Brazil for its president. Trump's attorneys have argued that if Trump shoots someone on fifth avenue, commits rape, mass murder, whatever he is still immune from prosecution while in office.

That is their view.

Welcome to Trumplandia.

Impeachment is the resolution for a President that was guilty of committing a misdemeanor, high crime, bribery or treason. Trump did none of these things. Now if you want to go down this road that a crime is not needed, remember your team set is setting that precedent right now, and payback is a bitch.

So, the precedent you are fine with is that any President of the United States can use the powers of the presidency to force and coerce another nation state to spy on a domestic political opponent for personal and political gain. Let's take that further. Your view is that Trump can use the State Department as own personal foreign relations office and the DOJ as his own personal praetorian guard. That is what Trump is doing and apparently you are fine with it. Yeah..don't give me that crap about payback. It is the nation that will be forever scarred by the actions of the maniac in office and those that have enabled him.

The Precedent you want to set is To MAKE AN UNFOUNDED ACCUSATION, and Then Violate Every Civil Right and DUE PROCESS there is to try to Prove Your False Accusation True.

You have no evidence. You cannot even cite a violation of US Code.

That is not the point. Contrary to what you say there is overwhelming evidence that Trump sought a quid pro quo from Zelensky. The point is most Trump supporters don't care he extorted a nation state. You just don't.

Even if Trump did, and even if it could be proven, how is that different than what Joe Biden did?

Don't give that Joe Biden garbage. Biden had the backing of international organizations, the EU when he went after Shokin for corruption. Berisma was not even under investigation when Biden went after Shokin. Berisma was investigated before Hunter Biden got involved with them. Hunter is a sleaze in his personal life, but that is neither here nor there when it comes to Biden's actions against the corrupt Shokin. If I thought Joe Biden was corrupt I would say so. I know you may not believe it but I would.

 

[beautress]

I’ve been pretty outspoken on how bad of an idea I thought this impeachment move would be for our government and our country. I saw the transition from the House to the Republican controlled Senate bringing a change in focus from Trumps actions to Biden corruption. It doesn’t appear that the Republicans are taking that route. I’ve seen the conservative media blitz working overtime on Biden corruption trying to shine the spotlight on that narrative, that tactic is in full swing, but in the capitol it looks like a race to dismissal.

It was rather astonishing to listen to the Republicans dismiss amendment after amendment after clear documentation and witnesses were presented that would add direct supporting material to the accusations.

It is very clear that the Republicans are not interested in finding the truth, seeing the facts, or even allowing the Dems to use the facts to present their case. They seem to just want to defend the president and dismiss the case. It stinks to high heaven and coming from somebody who doesn’t think Trump should be impeached I will say this path that Trump and the Reps are going down is looking more and more like a dirty cover up. When I first heard the Dems use that term it sounded like political hyperbole... After day 1 it’s sounding pretty spot on

The amendments were designed to drag the process out as far as possible, add new charges not part of the articles, and basically make the whole thing a shit show. If they allowed one side to bring in new evidence, they would have opened a floodgate.

The House was supposed to make it's case via the articles themselves, not with added bullshit afterwards.

Yup. It was up to the House to make the case, not the Senate. If the House didn't do its job then to bad.

Nobody is asking the senate to make the case. That’s up to the house managers to do. They just want permission to access and present all evidence during the trial

Fuck you are not picking anything up, are you? That has already been done. That phase is OVER. They already Impeached him. They don't need anymore evidence. They obviously have enough. It was OVERWHELMING. Debating the removal of a president in the Senate doesn't include fucking DISCOVERY. Get over it.

Stop being a partisan hack

Listen to yourself. I have no partisan agenda here. I don’t want Trump removed from office. I want him voted out. But I do want the truth to come out. Why don’t you?

You need preparation, sir or ma'am, for next November. The real stats are that the Democrats didn't just drive out one congressman in the last 3 years, they lost 33% of the faith their base and will be losing many more when they are exposed for their nefarious antics that are apparent for those of us who've followed thanks to the information made available to several sources on the right by Julian Assange's Wikileaks and the facts as they are. Many on the left who got ignored by Obama got hired by the policies on employers duly encouraged by President Trump, and they go to his rallies wearing Maga hats stacked high. If you compare his rallies to the snore-a-thons that the Democrat presidential debates have been, you might "get it," and if you realize the Press who gets its info from DNC headquarters which are 98% do not realize that the American people have come to the conclusion that all the horseplay does not measure up so much as a millimeter to the multiple kilometers of esteem the public has given to President Trump at his rallies.

Just so your fall to earth won't be too jarring, I tell you this. I care.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I have no doubt youlll have another slew of excuses once your proven wrong again.

You did not have the courage to rebut the points I made when I outted you as a partisan pathological liar engaged in partisan hyperbole, rhetoric and propaganda.

You are persona non grata to me, snow flake.

You won't even defend your indefensible post.

I dont care to defend myself because my personal feelings make no difference to the points I’m debating. Going personal is a weak distraction tactic. You can have the point and think whatever you want. I’m a hypocritical partisan snowflake. Ok now what?

You are right in your assessment. The bottom line is this: Trumpers do not care that Trump sought to abuse his office, extort a nation state and demand a quid pro quo. They will gladly concede that he did so. They contend that Trump did not commit a crime and therefore he cannot be impeached, convicted and removed from office. That is their argument.

So, their reasoning is if it is not a crime and a President can only be impeached for a crime the impeachment proceeding was invalid. (There is considerable evidence in the Federalist Papers among other sources that this view is wrong and in my opinion it is. You don't need a crime to impeach a president).

So what Trumpers are saying is if the President wants to declassify our nuclear codes and give them to his good friend and likely handler, V. Putin, or publish them on the internet, he can do so because the President can declassify information and if he wants to do that, well that is his prerogative. Declassifying intelligence is a presidential prerogative therefor non-impeachable.

But Trumpers go beyond that even.

Trump himself argues that while in office the president is immune form prosecution. That is similar to the laws of immunity they have in Brazil for its president. Trump's attorneys have argued that if Trump shoots someone on fifth avenue, commits rape, mass murder, whatever he is still immune from prosecution while in office.

That is their view.

Welcome to Trumplandia.

Impeachment is the resolution for a President that was guilty of committing a misdemeanor, high crime, bribery or treason. Trump did none of these things. Now if you want to go down this road that a crime is not needed, remember your team set is setting that precedent right now, and payback is a bitch.

So, the precedent you are fine with is that any President of the United States can use the powers of the presidency to force and coerce another nation state to spy on a domestic political opponent for personal and political gain. Let's take that further. Your view is that Trump can use the State Department as own personal foreign relations office and the DOJ as his own personal praetorian guard. That is what Trump is doing and apparently you are fine with it. Yeah..don't give me that crap about payback. It is the nation that will be forever scarred by the actions of the maniac in office and those that have enabled him.

Oh, trust me, you will regret this, the next Dem President with a Republican House. And I don't want to see you or any leftist here bitching about it when he or she is impeached for farting in public.

Biden was not Trump's rival when he made that request to Zelensky. Biden is the rival of his fellow Democrats running for the nomination. In order for Democrats to honestly make that claim, they would have to present their crystal ball, and prove how accurate it is, and that's where they got their information, or the documentation that the primary will be rigged for Biden. Then they would have to prove Trump had knowledge of either.

Bottom line is this is all made up by the Democrats; the entire impeachment. This is the first impeachment in history with no crime, first impeachment conducted on mind reading, and first impeachment conducted by being able to see into the future.

 

[toomuchtime_]

And the Senate IS having a trial, but they are not about to allow the Democrats tell them how to proceed with one or extend their clown show with the House. You wanted an impeachment trial, then here it is. If you don't like how they are conducting it, then it's only fair because we didn't like how they conducted their inquiry.

why do you think it’s a clown show to see documents showing direct communication and witnesses who had direct access to trumps directives? Wouldn’t that clear Trump if he did nothing wrong?

The charge of abuse of power rests on the claim that the President wanted the investigation of the Bidens to advance his chances for reelection, so the only relevant witnesses or documents would have to directly show that was his motivation and clearly, the House was unable to find and such witnesses or documents so all the fuss the Democrats are making is just to extend their political stunt to advance their own political interests.

I agree that the Dems messed up emphasizing the “political interest”point. It’s very hard to prove intent, even when it’s obvious. There should be a process to follow when working with foreign countries to investigate political rivals. If that system isn’t in place then it needs to be set up. If it is in place and Trump didn’t follow it then he should be held accountable. He held up funds to progress this investigation agenda, that was deemed illegal. He used his personal attorney instead of regular channels to pursue his agenda, there could be something wrong there too. And he’s blocked information and spread false narratives in the aftermath which is not OK. There’s a lot of crap there

Trump didn't ever say he held up funds for the investigation. The Democrats made that up. Trump said he held up aid to investigate what other members of the UN were contributing. But don't listen to Trump, listen to what the Democrats concluded because Democrats can read minds. Forget about what Trump said.

Wrong. The Dems didn’t make that up. Trumps own staffers who were in charge of the funds and relations with Ukraine testified to that. I also think you know it’s true, I would push to hard with the Trump never said it argument. We all know the intel he is blocking solidifies what he did and why. It’s going to come out eventually

lol So you are basing your conclusion on "intel" you haven't seen? Doesn't that sound a bit flimsy to you?

 

[progressive hunter]

The house did an inquiry. The senate is responsible for having a trial. Two very different things and as I just said. Two wrongs, don’t make a right

And the Senate IS having a trial, but they are not about to allow the Democrats tell them how to proceed with one or extend their clown show with the House. You wanted an impeachment trial, then here it is. If you don't like how they are conducting it, then it's only fair because we didn't like how they conducted their inquiry.

why do you think it’s a clown show to see documents showing direct communication and witnesses who had direct access to trumps directives? Wouldn’t that clear Trump if he did nothing wrong?

One would think so. If they were innocent that is.

Why aren't you mad at Nazi's Clowns for not doing their job in the House?

They did their job. The Senate is not.

if they did their job then why are they asking the senate to do it???

youre such a useful idiot,,,

 

[JLW]

You did not have the courage to rebut the points I made when I outted you as a partisan pathological liar engaged in partisan hyperbole, rhetoric and propaganda.

You are persona non grata to me, snow flake.

You won't even defend your indefensible post.

I dont care to defend myself because my personal feelings make no difference to the points I’m debating. Going personal is a weak distraction tactic. You can have the point and think whatever you want. I’m a hypocritical partisan snowflake. Ok now what?

You are right in your assessment. The bottom line is this: Trumpers do not care that Trump sought to abuse his office, extort a nation state and demand a quid pro quo. They will gladly concede that he did so. They contend that Trump did not commit a crime and therefore he cannot be impeached, convicted and removed from office. That is their argument.

So, their reasoning is if it is not a crime and a President can only be impeached for a crime the impeachment proceeding was invalid. (There is considerable evidence in the Federalist Papers among other sources that this view is wrong and in my opinion it is. You don't need a crime to impeach a president).

So what Trumpers are saying is if the President wants to declassify our nuclear codes and give them to his good friend and likely handler, V. Putin, or publish them on the internet, he can do so because the President can declassify information and if he wants to do that, well that is his prerogative. Declassifying intelligence is a presidential prerogative therefor non-impeachable.

But Trumpers go beyond that even.

Trump himself argues that while in office the president is immune form prosecution. That is similar to the laws of immunity they have in Brazil for its president. Trump's attorneys have argued that if Trump shoots someone on fifth avenue, commits rape, mass murder, whatever he is still immune from prosecution while in office.

That is their view.

Welcome to Trumplandia.

Impeachment is the resolution for a President that was guilty of committing a misdemeanor, high crime, bribery or treason. Trump did none of these things. Now if you want to go down this road that a crime is not needed, remember your team set is setting that precedent right now, and payback is a bitch.

So, the precedent you are fine with is that any President of the United States can use the powers of the presidency to force and coerce another nation state to spy on a domestic political opponent for personal and political gain. Let's take that further. Your view is that Trump can use the State Department as own personal foreign relations office and the DOJ as his own personal praetorian guard. That is what Trump is doing and apparently you are fine with it. Yeah..don't give me that crap about payback. It is the nation that will be forever scarred by the actions of the maniac in office and those that have enabled him.

Oh, trust me, you will regret this, the next Dem President with a Republican House. And I don't want to see you or any leftist here bitching about it when he or she is impeached for farting in public.

Biden was not Trump's rival when he made that request to Zelensky. Biden is the rival of his fellow Democrats running for the nomination. In order for Democrats to honestly make that claim, they would have to present their crystal ball, and prove how accurate it is, and that's where they got their information, or the documentation that the primary will be rigged for Biden. Then they would have to prove Trump had knowledge of either.

Bottom line is this is all made up by the Democrats; the entire impeachment. This is the first impeachment in history with no crime, first impeachment conducted on mind reading, and first impeachment conducted by being able to see in the future.

If any future Democratic president acts like Trump, yeah the bastard should be impeached. This type of corruption and abuse of power is fine for Trumpers, but not for me. I expect more from a President of the United States.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Since the House held the whole thing behind closed doors, no one saw anything.

Derp... except the 12 or more witnesses that testified on national tv that is.

 

[beautress]

The house did an inquiry. The senate is responsible for having a trial. Two very different things and as I just said. Two wrongs, don’t make a right

And the Senate IS having a trial, but they are not about to allow the Democrats tell them how to proceed with one or extend their clown show with the House. You wanted an impeachment trial, then here it is. If you don't like how they are conducting it, then it's only fair because we didn't like how they conducted their inquiry.

why do you think it’s a clown show to see documents showing direct communication and witnesses who had direct access to trumps directives? Wouldn’t that clear Trump if he did nothing wrong?

The charge of abuse of power rests on the claim that the President wanted the investigation of the Bidens to advance his chances for reelection, so the only relevant witnesses or documents would have to directly show that was his motivation and clearly, the House was unable to find and such witnesses or documents so all the fuss the Democrats are making is just to extend their political stunt to advance their own political interests.

I agree that the Dems messed up emphasizing the “political interest”point. It’s very hard to prove intent, even when it’s obvious. There should be a process to follow when working with foreign countries to investigate political rivals. If that system isn’t in place then it needs to be set up. If it is in place and Trump didn’t follow it then he should be held accountable. He held up funds to progress this investigation agenda, that was deemed illegal. He used his personal attorney instead of regular channels to pursue his agenda, there could be something wrong there too. And he’s blocked information and spread false narratives in the aftermath which is not OK. There’s a lot of crap there

The bottom line is that if the President didn't seek the investigation of events in Ukraine around the 2016, including the actions of the Bidens, for personal reasons, then there are no grounds for charging abuse of power and no legitimate grounds for impeachment. Add to that the fact that there never was a possibility the President would be convicted, and the conclusion that the Democrats hijacked the House of Representatives, trashed the Constitution, worked to undermine US policy both at home and abroad to advance their own political fortunes is inescapable, and we can only hope voters will hold them accountable in November.

Sorry, sir or ma'am, but Biden's crime is regarded impersonal by the President's requirement to make sure all is well in the USA. The public has the right to know the truth about Joe Biden's strongarming the Ukranians for megabucks. I'm sorry for his son getting sucked into his father's beefs and briefs with the universe of good and evil, and that he somehow thought he could get away with fathering a child outside of his marriage. Men pay a price when they do the wrong thing.

 

[yidnar]

I’ve been pretty outspoken on how bad of an idea I thought this impeachment move would be for our government and our country. I saw the transition from the House to the Republican controlled Senate bringing a change in focus from Trumps actions to Biden corruption. It doesn’t appear that the Republicans are taking that route. I’ve seen the conservative media blitz working overtime on Biden corruption trying to shine the spotlight on that narrative, that tactic is in full swing, but in the capitol it looks like a race to dismissal.

It was rather astonishing to listen to the Republicans dismiss amendment after amendment after clear documentation and witnesses were presented that would add direct supporting material to the accusations.

It is very clear that the Republicans are not interested in finding the truth, seeing the facts, or even allowing the Dems to use the facts to present their case. They seem to just want to defend the president and dismiss the case. It stinks to high heaven and coming from somebody who doesn’t think Trump should be impeached I will say this path that Trump and the Reps are going down is looking more and more like a dirty cover up. When I first heard the Dems use that term it sounded like political hyperbole... After day 1 it’s sounding pretty spot on

you may change your mind after the republicans make their defense in a few days starting this Saturday and once the senate gets their q&a started after the prosecution and defense made their case then you may change your mind ...Schiff has already lied several times in his presentation to the senate.

 

[toomuchtime_]

I agree that the Dems messed up emphasizing the “political interest”point. It’s very hard to prove intent, even when it’s obvious. There should be a process to follow when working with foreign countries to investigate political rivals. If that system isn’t in place then it needs to be set up. If it is in place and Trump didn’t follow it then he should be held accountable. He held up funds to progress this investigation agenda, that was deemed illegal. He used his personal attorney instead of regular channels to pursue his agenda, there could be something wrong there too. And he’s blocked information and spread false narratives in the aftermath which is not OK. There’s a lot of crap there

Trump didn't ever say he held up funds for the investigation. The Democrats made that up. Trump said he held up aid to investigate what other members of the UN were contributing. But don't listen to Trump, listen to what the Democrats concluded because Democrats can read minds. Forget about what Trump said.

Wrong. The Dems didn’t make that up. Trumps own staffers who were in charge of the funds and relations with Ukraine testified to that. I also think you know it’s true, I would push to hard with the Trump never said it argument. We all know the intel he is blocking solidifies what he did and why. It’s going to come out eventually

What a minute, which staffers? I didn't see any. The only person to testify that he or she spoke directly with the President on the matter was ambassador Sondland, and he testified when he spoke to President Trump directly, Trump told him no quid pro quo; he didn't want anything from President Zelensky.

Trump said no quid pro quo after he found out he was being accused of a quid pro quo. You can’t be that gullible can you ray?

Then show me somebody who testified that Trump told them the reason he was withholding aid was for a quid pro quo. We have all the testimony on video. Nobody except Sondland testified that they spoke with Trump directly on the matter.

Actually, Soundland didn't say that. Schiff pressured him to say that the aid was held up as a quid pro quo for the investigation, but Soundland said as far as he knew, the only quid pro quo was an invitation to the WH. The charges in the Articles of Impeachment are entirely without substantiating evidence.

 

[yidnar]

Oh P-shaw!

We already know that Trump puts ketchup on his welldone steak, has two scoops of vanilla ice cream, and gets to use larger Salt and Pepper shakers than everyone else.

We don't really need to tie up the entire legislative branch to publicize these Trumpian Character "Flaws".

Trump is hated by the snobs in Washington ....

 

[toomuchtime_]

The charge of abuse of power rests on the claim that the President wanted the investigation of the Bidens to advance his chances for reelection, so the only relevant witnesses or documents would have to directly show that was his motivation and clearly, the House was unable to find and such witnesses or documents so all the fuss the Democrats are making is just to extend their political stunt to advance their own political interests.

I agree that the Dems messed up emphasizing the “political interest”point. It’s very hard to prove intent, even when it’s obvious. There should be a process to follow when working with foreign countries to investigate political rivals. If that system isn’t in place then it needs to be set up. If it is in place and Trump didn’t follow it then he should be held accountable. He held up funds to progress this investigation agenda, that was deemed illegal. He used his personal attorney instead of regular channels to pursue his agenda, there could be something wrong there too. And he’s blocked information and spread false narratives in the aftermath which is not OK. There’s a lot of crap there

Trump didn't ever say he held up funds for the investigation. The Democrats made that up. Trump said he held up aid to investigate what other members of the UN were contributing. But don't listen to Trump, listen to what the Democrats concluded because Democrats can read minds. Forget about what Trump said.

Wrong. The Dems didn’t make that up. Trumps own staffers who were in charge of the funds and relations with Ukraine testified to that. I also think you know it’s true, I would push to hard with the Trump never said it argument. We all know the intel he is blocking solidifies what he did and why. It’s going to come out eventually

how do we all know that???

It’s obvious to me, but if you have doubts just wait. Time always brings this stuff out. I have a feeling Trumps lies will be exposed for years to come after his presidency

Ok, so now you are talking about your feelings and not about facts.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

I’ve been pretty outspoken on how bad of an idea I thought this impeachment move would be for our government and our country. I saw the transition from the House to the Republican controlled Senate bringing a change in focus from Trumps actions to Biden corruption. It doesn’t appear that the Republicans are taking that route. I’ve seen the conservative media blitz working overtime on Biden corruption trying to shine the spotlight on that narrative, that tactic is in full swing, but in the capitol it looks like a race to dismissal.

It was rather astonishing to listen to the Republicans dismiss amendment after amendment after clear documentation and witnesses were presented that would add direct supporting material to the accusations.

It is very clear that the Republicans are not interested in finding the truth, seeing the facts, or even allowing the Dems to use the facts to present their case. They seem to just want to defend the president and dismiss the case. It stinks to high heaven and coming from somebody who doesn’t think Trump should be impeached I will say this path that Trump and the Reps are going down is looking more and more like a dirty cover up. When I first heard the Dems use that term it sounded like political hyperbole... After day 1 it’s sounding pretty spot on

The evidence is overwhelming. Let's vote to impeach.

Later in the senate:

We need more evidence because we don't have enough.

YCMTSU.

That’s not what I’m hearing... they think they have enough. But they also want more, why wouldn’t they want more?. They want the stuff Trump blocked them from getting. Can you blame them?

Yes I can. EVERY president we've had has blocked congress from shit they wanted. Executive Privilege. Look it up. They could have gone to court and the court decides what witnesses/documents Trump's administration has to give up. But they're in a fucking hurry because ELECTION! If he gets elected, they know they are fucked for another 4 years.

They said the evidence was OVERWHELMING. Why would they need more. Look up the definition of OVERWHELM. I posted it above. Go read it. They impeached him based on the evidence they gathered. That should be MORE than enough. They are looking for discovery in a trial. They should have done all of the discovery in the inquiry in the house. That's ass backwards and it's only because more shit keeps coming forward. Kinda like the Kavanaugh confirmation hearing. Dribble, dribble, dribble. They figured they could get around the courts by having the Senate do the job of the house and that's BULLSHIT.

Don't be fooled so easily. Look at it objectively.

Trump wasn't even allowed to defend himself in the House Impeachment Inquiry. Why should he give up anyFUCKINGthing.

Would you participate in your own impeachment if YOU couldn't defend yourself?

You’ve got to be joking!! Yes all presidents invoke privilege, as they should, but none have even come close to what Trump is doing. We aren’t talking about private strategy meetings or national security issues. We are talking about state department business, transcripts, complaints made by staffers to attornens and a slew of other relevant pieces to this situation.

Sigh...

Don't be duped. There is a process to get relevant data. You have to use the court system. That's the way it works and for good reason. Otherwise the only branch of Government that would count is Congress. They would (and they often do) abuse the subpoena process.

Wake the fuck up.

Don't be duped. There is a process to get relevant data. You have to use the court system. That's the way it works and for good reason. Otherwise the only branch of Government that would count is Congress. They would (and they often do) abuse the subpoena process.

Wake the fuck up.

The House has the sole power of impeachment.
The Senate has the sole power to try the case.
Nowhere does the judiciary have authority over either.

You should take your own advice, super duper.

 

[Ken Mac]

The charge of abuse of power rests on the claim that the President wanted the investigation of the Bidens to advance his chances for reelection, so the only relevant witnesses or documents would have to directly show that was his motivation and clearly, the House was unable to find and such witnesses or documents so all the fuss the Democrats are making is just to extend their political stunt to advance their own political interests.

As I posted citing multiple sources earlier - here's another:

"Officials in Ukraine reportedly opened an investigation into an energy company that employed former Vice President Joe Biden’s son long before President Donald Trump’s July 25 nothing-burger of a telephone call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky that spurred the Democrats’ haphazard, increasingly Kafkaesque impeachment inquiry.

The time element of the revelation, devastating as it is to the 2016-election-nullification push disguised as an impeachment process, has been largely ignored by the mainstream media which is overly preoccupied –as usual— attacking President Trump."

How can someone pressure someone else into doing something they are already doing?

Just one of the devastating facts against the Democrats' Impeachment - COUP attempt....


Ukraine Was Investigating Hunter Biden Before Trump’s Phone Call

Of course they were, Giuliani has been working on this scam for over a year. He started with the previous administration, inviting the previous prosecutor Lutsenko to meet with him in New York....

And Lutsenko said he'd do Giuliani the "favor" if GIuliani would get Ambassador Yavanovich fired and removed. THE FIRST illegal, quid pro quo.

Lutsenko was corrupt and Yavanovich was trying to root out the corrupt... She was getting in his way....

So Giuliani, Solomon, Parnas, Victoria and Joe DiGenova, Don Junior, Trump, and Rep Sessions from Texas, who was paid an illegal bribe by Parnas via illegal campaign donation, to all campaigned promoted a smear campaign on our US Ambassador Yavonovich, AND GOT HER FIRED as the Ukraine Ambassador.

When Lutsenko's boss was not reelected, he came out And reported he found NO WRONG DOING by Hunter Biden, no crimes, and how much money someone is paid, No matter how much, is not a crime.....in the Ukraine.

You'd look great in a tin foil hat. I'm telling you it would be totally flattering.