I Will Never Forget or Forgive

[NoNukes]

History shows that Jane Fonda and the protestors were right about VietNam

The War Hawks were wrong and cost us 60,000 lives

Those who protested the war and tried to stop it were patriots who loved their country.

 

[Againsheila]

Very Ironic coming from a poster who tried to foist a lie onto us with this OP.

This particular Fonda tidbit is not true, but there's a reason something like this could easily be attached to her, since the truth is she went over to the north side while our men and women were being shot at.
Says a lot about you, that you would go out of your way to defend her.

Says a lot that you say I defend her when I have done no such thing. Pointing out lies does not a defense make.....She was wrong....she has apologized...some will never forget and forgive....fine. That "war" poisoned a lot of people. As I said before, some will never forget or forgive the Japanese either.

Her apology doesn't hold water since now she pretends it never happened.

 

[Againsheila]

At least Jane Fonda apologized for what she did wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ppNSBx-xe0

If you want to skip to the Vietnam questions it is at 28:00.

You call that an apology? Saying that the people who are upset with her basically need to get over it?

 

[Againsheila]

History shows that Jane Fonda and the protestors were right about VietNam

The War Hawks were wrong and cost us 60,000 lives

Those who protested the war and tried to stop it were patriots who loved their country.

The ones who stayed here and protested. Jane, who went to the enemy and made propaganda films for them, that's a traitor.

 

[Truthseeker420]

At least Jane Fonda apologized for what she did wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ppNSBx-xe0

If you want to skip to the Vietnam questions it is at 28:00.

You call that an apology? Saying that the people who are upset with her basically need to get over it?

I'm just saying it's more of an apology than we have got from George Bush or Dick Cheney.

 

[Againsheila]

At least Jane Fonda apologized for what she did wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ppNSBx-xe0

If you want to skip to the Vietnam questions it is at 28:00.

You call that an apology? Saying that the people who are upset with her basically need to get over it?

I'm just saying it's more of an apology than we have got from George Bush or Dick Cheney.

Okay, I'll give you points for that.

 

[Truthseeker420]

History shows that Jane Fonda and the protestors were right about VietNam

The War Hawks were wrong and cost us 60,000 lives

Those who protested the war and tried to stop it were patriots who loved their country.

The ones who stayed here and protested. Jane, who went to the enemy and made propaganda films for them, that's a traitor.

I don't want to speak for her but I believe in her books said she was naive as to how this could be used for propaganda and she thought she was helping the troops and America.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

Those who protested the war and tried to stop it were patriots who loved their country.

The ones who stayed here and protested. Jane, who went to the enemy and made propaganda films for them, that's a traitor.

I don't want to speak for her but I believe in her books said she was naive as to how this could be used for propaganda and she thought she was helping the troops and America.

Oh bullshit, you would have to be the dumbest person on the planet to think going to the other side and speaking out against your country is "helping" the troops.

Again, I've said it numerous times here, there's a line you don't cross, and she did.

She could have stayed home and protested, but she took it to the unthinkable level.

 

[Truthseeker420]

The ones who stayed here and protested. Jane, who went to the enemy and made propaganda films for them, that's a traitor.

I don't want to speak for her but I believe in her books said she was naive as to how this could be used for propaganda and she thought she was helping the troops and America.

Oh bullshit, you would have to be the dumbest person on the planet to think going to the other side and speaking out against your country is "helping" the troops.

Again, I've said it numerous times here, there's a line you don't cross, and she did.

She could have stayed home and protested, but she took it to the unthinkable level.

I agree she crossed the line. I didn't say she wasn't wrong or anyone should forgive or forget. Just blame her for what she did do....

 

[9thIDdoc]

For what?

Taking a picture?

Criticizing US actions in Vietnam?

That's not treason.

Colluding with the enemy and selling them weapons..IS TREASON.

Like Reagan did.

She sympathized with the enemy, and should forever be viewed as a war traitor.

She sympathized with an invaded and hurt people.
America is half a world from Vietnam, a country that never posed any threat to America, so you should never have been anywhere near the place.

Bullshit! The truth is that she sided with those who were doing the invading and brutally murdering women and children. We were there trying to protect them.

 

[Esmeralda]

I don't want to speak for her but I believe in her books said she was naive as to how this could be used for propaganda and she thought she was helping the troops and America.

Oh bullshit, you would have to be the dumbest person on the planet to think going to the other side and speaking out against your country is "helping" the troops.

Again, I've said it numerous times here, there's a line you don't cross, and she did.

She could have stayed home and protested, but she took it to the unthinkable level.

I agree she crossed the line. I didn't say she wasn't wrong or anyone should forgive or forget. Just blame her for what she did do....

What she did was very stupid. She probably should have known better, but she didn't. She certainly didn't do it to be malicious or to harm or insult American troops. She wanted to work for peace. She was stupid, not evil.

At bottom, however, the real people to blame for the deaths and sufferings of tens of thousands of American GIs are the people who sent them there, not Fonda.

 

[matchless]

The crime of treason is defined right in the Constitution. The men who founded this country knew it had been common in England to try to destroy political enemies by charging them with that crime, and they wanted to make it hard for anyone to make treason mean whatever suited his purposes. But even with this, most treason trials in this country have had a political tinge.

Every American has a First Amendment right to criticize the government. But if you do it overseas, and particularly in a hostile country in time of war, that right yields to the need to protect this country--and you are asking to be charged with treason. Mildred "Axis Sally" Gillars was convicted of treason for her radio broadcasts for Nazi Germany and spent the 1950's in prison.

Jane Fonda, too, did plenty to have been charged with "adhering to" the enemies of the U.S.,"giving them aid and comfort," and she might have been convicted. The difference was that Gillars betrayed the U.S. during a very popular war, while Fonda's actions took place during a very unpopular one. There just was not enough political will for LBJ to have his Justice Dept. go after someone whose views many Americans sympathized with, even if they disliked her way of expressing them.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

The crime of treason is defined right in the Constitution. The men who founded this country knew it had been common in England to try to destroy political enemies by charging them with that crime, and they wanted to make it hard for anyone to make treason mean whatever suited his purposes. But even with this, most treason trials in this country have had a political tinge.

Every American has a First Amendment right to criticize the government. But if you do it overseas, and particularly in a hostile country in time of war, that right yields to the need to protect this country--and you are asking to be charged with treason. Mildred "Axis Sally" Gillars was convicted of treason for her radio broadcasts for Nazi Germany and spent the 1950's in prison.

Jane Fonda, too, did plenty to have been charged with "adhering to" the enemies of the U.S.,"giving them aid and comfort," and she might have been convicted. The difference was that Gillars betrayed the U.S. during a very popular war, while Fonda's actions took place during a very unpopular one. There just was not enough political will for LBJ to have his Justice Dept. go after someone whose views many Americans sympathized with, even if they disliked her way of expressing them.

I agree with you 100%, had the war not been so unpopular, Fonda would have been thrown in jail. Politics would have driven it had there been more outrage from the public.

 

[Againsheila]

The crime of treason is defined right in the Constitution. The men who founded this country knew it had been common in England to try to destroy political enemies by charging them with that crime, and they wanted to make it hard for anyone to make treason mean whatever suited his purposes. But even with this, most treason trials in this country have had a political tinge.

Every American has a First Amendment right to criticize the government. But if you do it overseas, and particularly in a hostile country in time of war, that right yields to the need to protect this country--and you are asking to be charged with treason. Mildred "Axis Sally" Gillars was convicted of treason for her radio broadcasts for Nazi Germany and spent the 1950's in prison.

Jane Fonda, too, did plenty to have been charged with "adhering to" the enemies of the U.S.,"giving them aid and comfort," and she might have been convicted. The difference was that Gillars betrayed the U.S. during a very popular war, while Fonda's actions took place during a very unpopular one. There just was not enough political will for LBJ to have his Justice Dept. go after someone whose views many Americans sympathized with, even if they disliked her way of expressing them.

I think her father had a lot to do with why she wasn't arrested.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

Here's an overview of the book

"Aid And Comfort": Jane Fonda*In North Vietnam"



It gives a pretty case for her to have been charged. I read several years ago, and would recommend it.

Contact

Books

Printable

*

"Aid And Comfort": Jane Fonda*In North Vietnam"

By: Henry Mark Holzer & Erika Holzer
Price: $39.95
Foreword by Col. George “Bud” Day
Format: Hardback
(7 x 10)*
Pages: 216
ISBN: 0-7864-1247-X
Publication Date: 2002

Buy from Amazon.com
Buy from McFarland Publishers

Jane Fonda’s visit to Hanoi in July 1972 and her pro–North Vietnamese, anti–American conduct, especially her pose with an anti-aircraft gun used to shoot down American planes and her propaganda broadcasts directed toward American troops, angered many Americans. In their eyes, she was guilty of treason, but she was never charged by the American legal system. Instead, she has made millions, been the recipient of countless awards, and remained an honored American icon.

This work investigates Fonda’s activities in North Vietnam and argues that she could have been indicted for treason, that there would have been enough evidence to take the case to a jury, that she could have been convicted, and that a conviction probably would have been upheld on appeal. It also considers Fonda’s early life and the effect it had on her behavior and beliefs in her later years, her audience of American pows who were forced by the Vietnamese to listen to her broadcasts condemning them as war criminals, her arrival in Vietnam and how it was viewed by American servicemen and civilians, the crime of treason throughout history, and the only Congressional inquiry into her actions, which resulted in the government’s decision to take no legal action against her. Texts of Fonda’s radio broadcasts to American servicemen comprise the appendix.

Henry Mark Holzer is professor emeritus at Brooklyn Law School. Erika Holzer is a lawyer, novelist and essayist.

Books

 

[DigitalDrifter]

Here's a review:

We former POWs will never forget being forced to listen to the propaganda broadcasts of Jane Fonda from Hanoi.**"Aid and Comfort": Jane Fonda in North Vietnam*is 'must reading' for those who want irrefutable proof of Hanoi Jane's treachery, and its legal significance."* Mike McGrath, Capt. USN (Ret.), President, NAM-POW.

 

[Esmeralda]

The crime of treason is defined right in the Constitution. The men who founded this country knew it had been common in England to try to destroy political enemies by charging them with that crime, and they wanted to make it hard for anyone to make treason mean whatever suited his purposes. But even with this, most treason trials in this country have had a political tinge.

Every American has a First Amendment right to criticize the government. But if you do it overseas, and particularly in a hostile country in time of war, that right yields to the need to protect this country--and you are asking to be charged with treason. Mildred "Axis Sally" Gillars was convicted of treason for her radio broadcasts for Nazi Germany and spent the 1950's in prison.

Jane Fonda, too, did plenty to have been charged with "adhering to" the enemies of the U.S.,"giving them aid and comfort," and she might have been convicted. The difference was that Gillars betrayed the U.S. during a very popular war, while Fonda's actions took place during a very unpopular one. There just was not enough political will for LBJ to have his Justice Dept. go after someone whose views many Americans sympathized with, even if they disliked her way of expressing them.

Vietnam was never a declared war; it was a military engagment. If what Fonda did was possibly treasonous, she could not be charged with treason because we were technically not at war with Vietnam.

 

[Esmeralda]

She sympathized with the enemy, and should forever be viewed as a war traitor.

She sympathized with an invaded and hurt people.
America is half a world from Vietnam, a country that never posed any threat to America, so you should never have been anywhere near the place.

Bullshit! The truth is that she sided with those who were doing the invading and brutally murdering women and children. We were there trying to protect them.

By using agent orange to burn down their rice paddys, forests and villages?

 

[jasonnfree]

The crime of treason is defined right in the Constitution. The men who founded this country knew it had been common in England to try to destroy political enemies by charging them with that crime, and they wanted to make it hard for anyone to make treason mean whatever suited his purposes. But even with this, most treason trials in this country have had a political tinge.

Every American has a First Amendment right to criticize the government. But if you do it overseas, and particularly in a hostile country in time of war, that right yields to the need to protect this country--and you are asking to be charged with treason. Mildred "Axis Sally" Gillars was convicted of treason for her radio broadcasts for Nazi Germany and spent the 1950's in prison.

Jane Fonda, too, did plenty to have been charged with "adhering to" the enemies of the U.S.,"giving them aid and comfort," and she might have been convicted. The difference was that Gillars betrayed the U.S. during a very popular war, while Fonda's actions took place during a very unpopular one. There just was not enough political will for LBJ to have his Justice Dept. go after someone whose views many Americans sympathized with, even if they disliked her way of expressing them.

Vietnam was never a declared war; it was a military engagment. If what Fonda did was possibly treasonous, she could not be charged with treason because we were technically not at war with Vietnam.

Hasn't been a declared war since ww2. The right wing is always quoting the constitution but doesn't consider the part where only congress can declare war.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

The crime of treason is defined right in the Constitution. The men who founded this country knew it had been common in England to try to destroy political enemies by charging them with that crime, and they wanted to make it hard for anyone to make treason mean whatever suited his purposes. But even with this, most treason trials in this country have had a political tinge.

Every American has a First Amendment right to criticize the government. But if you do it overseas, and particularly in a hostile country in time of war, that right yields to the need to protect this country--and you are asking to be charged with treason. Mildred "Axis Sally" Gillars was convicted of treason for her radio broadcasts for Nazi Germany and spent the 1950's in prison.

Jane Fonda, too, did plenty to have been charged with "adhering to" the enemies of the U.S.,"giving them aid and comfort," and she might have been convicted. The difference was that Gillars betrayed the U.S. during a very popular war, while Fonda's actions took place during a very unpopular one. There just was not enough political will for LBJ to have his Justice Dept. go after someone whose views many Americans sympathized with, even if they disliked her way of expressing them.

Vietnam was never a declared war; it was a military engagment. If what Fonda did was possibly treasonous, she could not be charged with treason because we were technically not at war with Vietnam.

In my previous post about the book, the author and lawyer apparently disagrees with you.
Don't take this personal, but I will take that expert opinion over yours.