I Wish We Had A President Who Could Lead Like Abdullah

[PaintMyHouse]

Damn shame that he worked for them then? Well, mostly.

 

[NYcarbineer]

King Abdullah is the kind of Muslim the President was praising at the prayer breakfast.

And then hung out to dry by not supporting him with arms and equipment.

lol, you don't believe moderate Muslims even exist, you idiot.

 

[Siete]

I let a Muslim group kill 220 of our Marines in a blatant act of war and did nothing about it. Republicans love me.

Runnin' Ronnie Reagan

 

[NYcarbineer]

Bullshit! Christians have murdered millions of people throughout history.

Not in the name of Jesus. How many people have been murdered while zealots are screaming praise Allah compared to screaming Jesus???

Earlier this week our President made some comments at the national prayer breakfast. In the spirit of hospitality and inclusion he wished to address the recent horrifically evil actions by ISIS by saying that we Christians also have also perpetrated evil in the name of our religion. He gave three examples, two of which I want to make comments on here.

I want to first give this caveat that the purpose of this little essay is not to pick on the President. He simply presents a convenient opportunity for me to address many of our misconceptions about medieval Christian Civilization. I really don’t blame the President for thinking what he does more than I do anyone else. These misconceptions have been commonplace in our national educational system for quite some time.

Back to the point, the three examples President Obama gave do certainly point out that Christians are capable of evil. The evils of American slavery and reconstruction Jim Crow were, as President Obama said, “often justified in the name of Christ.” I want to acknowledge that fact, though that particular evil is not the focus of this essay.

As for the Inquisition, I’m not sure which Inquisition the President was referring to, but it is presumably the caricature we have received of people being tortured for their faith. That caricature reads more like a Jack Chick tract than historical reality. The old legends about the horrors of the Inquisition were largely exaggerated political propaganda. Twentieth century scholars have pushed back against that narrative arguing that the Spanish Inquisition (the particular Inquisition in question, presumably) was more humane than other contemporary trials and prisons. Yes, people did commit evil, but these events were isolated. The Inquisition (in general) was more a method of trying people for heresy than it was an excuse for torture, and the result of a guilty verdict in the vast majority of cases was excommunication not death. What you learned in school was wrong.

And as for the Crusades, yes atrocities were committed, but were they done in the name of Christ? We must acknowledge that evils were committed during the Crusades by evil, unscrupulous people. But we must also acknowledge that those acts were widely repented of and condemned, and that they were never the purpose of the Crusades. The purpose of the Crusades was to defend Christians who were being attacked by ever-encroaching Islamic armies. The Crusades were defensive wars in their conception. Yet, pick a war, any war, and you will find evil, unscrupulous people who get involved for their own wicked reasons and for their own greedy ends. Such is the nature of war, it attracts wicked people bent on destruction. Yet we do have a place in Christian theology for a just war, and at least on paper, the Crusades were just wars.

The president’s statement has also lead to a series of comments and references to the Middle Ages all over the internet and in various news sources. So I want to take the opportunity to dispel a few myths about the medieval period.

1. Medieval Christian civilization was not monolithic – We have this picture of the Middle Ages as a singular culture presided over by the pope and various kings and emperors. This simply was not the case. Europe in the medieval period was made up of a group of diverse cultures, and they didn’t always agree or get along. In the church there were also diverse practices and theologies during the medieval period. So we can’t just lump them all in together.

2. Medieval Christian civilization was not barbaric – Many of us have been to the medieval torture museums. We have this idea that Europe during the medieval period was filled with rustic, barbarous peoples for whom torture was their preferred form of entertainment. We have a picture of disease, famine, wars, tortures, and ignorant people who shunned science and technology in favor of rituals, mysticisms, and literal interpretations of the Bible. Well, again, what you learned in school and in other venues was wrong. The medieval torture museums are modern fabrications. These images we have of the middle ages are inventions of the modern world set to disparage a Christian civilization. As I mentioned above, our notions of the Inquisition and the Crusades are caricatures and fabrications. Yes there were evils, yes there was ignorance, but not any more than any other period of time or any other culture. In fact they were much less. The medieval Europeans did quite a good job with the resources and knowledge they had.

3. Medieval Christian civilization was a work in progress – We tend to judge medieval Europe based on modern standards. But this is not fair. In the early to mid-Middle Ages, the cultures represented were only a short time removed from uncultured and unlettered paganism. We in the modern West have had the benefit of 2,000 years of Christian culture to help us to grow and mature. Yes atrocities were committed. Yes, greedy and unscrupulous people did bad things. But we shouldn’t judge early medieval Europe on our modern standards any more than we should try a child as an adult in a court of law.

4. Medieval Christian civilization was not “Dark” – We’ve all heard of the “Dark Ages.” In my Ancient and Medieval Church History class at Covenant Seminary I tell my students that any of them who refers to the medieval period as the “Dark Ages” will receive an automatic F. I’ve yet to have anyone do that. You see, this myth of the Dark Ages was perpetrated by an anti-Christian Enlightenment culture that wanted to disparage the Christian Civilization that was formed during the medieval period. It is in no way true that people in medieval Europe were uneducated, ignorant, or backward. The medievals created the educational systems and the methods that we still use today. They took the treasure of ancient Greek and Roman education and culture and Christianized it for use in the Christian academies of Europe. Charlemagne (yes him) in his General Admonition of 789 mandated that schools (yes schools) be created in every parish and monastery for the education (yes education) of children in reading, writing, and math. He also mandated that parish pastors work to educate (there’s that word again) all the people (yes all, men, women, and children of all classes) in the Christian liturgy and in the content of their faith so that they could be fruitful citizens. The medieval period was all about education, learning, and discovery. What you learned in school was wrong.

Medieval Christian civilization was a mixed bag, as is any society and culture. But my contention is that medieval Christianity was more good than bad, more light than dark, and when judged in light of the tools they had and the progress they made, there is much to give thanks for the foundation they laid for us.

What You Learned About the Middle Ages Was Wrong Theopolis Institute​

Yes, in the name of Christianity, you moron. They justified slavery based on text in the Bible. They believed they were superior human beings and that blacks were subhuman. They believed that because black Africans were not Christian, they were heathens and not worthy of life except to serve the Christians. How ignorant are you anyway? Did you skip school, or do you just have selective memory?

The Bible is the story of the people of Israel. The New Testiment is the story of the Messiah which is what Christianity is based on. I think you need to quit preaching and learn the difference. There is nothing in Jesus teachings that says you can take slaves against their will or kill in the name of God.

Maybe if you people who choose to use the Bible as a reference would crack one once in awhile you'd know this.u

You want to take the word of a compulsive liar like Obama, who said that George Washington made beer in the White House, even though George Washington never lived in the White House because it wasn't even built then.

Are you fucking serious? Do you people actually think you are fooling anyone by pretending that Christians don't consider the Old Testament. I went to Sunday school; I went to church. The Old Testament and the New Testament are both Christian religion. What you are trying to say is that the people who owned slaves and all the European imperialists who decimated so many non-white, non-Christian cultures and murdered millions of people, were not Christians and didn't think of themselves as Christians: your entire premise is ludicrous and pathetic. It is just unbelievable that you think anyone would buy your nonsense. You are completely and totally ignorant of history, or you are trying to twist it into something it isn't. Pathetic.

You're generalizing. Jesus said that the old ways were over. The Old Testiment is a series of books on the history of Israel. It was a lesson on what to do and not to do. Not a reference on how to murder our brothers. The one doing the twisting is the critics of Christianity.

Is throwing the Old Testament under the bus the best you fake Christians have now?

Priceless.

 

[Meathead]

King Abdullah , a Sunni, will pay dearly for being a US puppet. Once his people understand the ramifications of helping the US fight ISIS. that the US removed Saddam, also a Sunni from power. That his father , King Hussein, refused to help Bush II during the Iraqi invasion.Sunni nations like Turkey and Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states have not committed more openly and decisively to the war on ISIS,

Maybe his father, King Hussein, refused to help Bush because he died in 1999. Idiot!

 

[eagle1462010]

I let a Muslim group kill 220 of our Marines in a blatant act of war and did nothing about it. Republicans love me.

Runnin' Ronnie Reagan

He like every leader in the world who has decided to try and change the Middle East for the better have found the region to be nothing but QUICK SAND....................

The Radical elements don't want Peace..........

 

[Esmeralda]

Bullshit! Christians have murdered millions of people throughout history.

Not in the name of Jesus. How many people have been murdered while zealots are screaming praise Allah compared to screaming Jesus???

Earlier this week our President made some comments at the national prayer breakfast. In the spirit of hospitality and inclusion he wished to address the recent horrifically evil actions by ISIS by saying that we Christians also have also perpetrated evil in the name of our religion. He gave three examples, two of which I want to make comments on here.

I want to first give this caveat that the purpose of this little essay is not to pick on the President. He simply presents a convenient opportunity for me to address many of our misconceptions about medieval Christian Civilization. I really don’t blame the President for thinking what he does more than I do anyone else. These misconceptions have been commonplace in our national educational system for quite some time.

Back to the point, the three examples President Obama gave do certainly point out that Christians are capable of evil. The evils of American slavery and reconstruction Jim Crow were, as President Obama said, “often justified in the name of Christ.” I want to acknowledge that fact, though that particular evil is not the focus of this essay.

As for the Inquisition, I’m not sure which Inquisition the President was referring to, but it is presumably the caricature we have received of people being tortured for their faith. That caricature reads more like a Jack Chick tract than historical reality. The old legends about the horrors of the Inquisition were largely exaggerated political propaganda. Twentieth century scholars have pushed back against that narrative arguing that the Spanish Inquisition (the particular Inquisition in question, presumably) was more humane than other contemporary trials and prisons. Yes, people did commit evil, but these events were isolated. The Inquisition (in general) was more a method of trying people for heresy than it was an excuse for torture, and the result of a guilty verdict in the vast majority of cases was excommunication not death. What you learned in school was wrong.

And as for the Crusades, yes atrocities were committed, but were they done in the name of Christ? We must acknowledge that evils were committed during the Crusades by evil, unscrupulous people. But we must also acknowledge that those acts were widely repented of and condemned, and that they were never the purpose of the Crusades. The purpose of the Crusades was to defend Christians who were being attacked by ever-encroaching Islamic armies. The Crusades were defensive wars in their conception. Yet, pick a war, any war, and you will find evil, unscrupulous people who get involved for their own wicked reasons and for their own greedy ends. Such is the nature of war, it attracts wicked people bent on destruction. Yet we do have a place in Christian theology for a just war, and at least on paper, the Crusades were just wars.

The president’s statement has also lead to a series of comments and references to the Middle Ages all over the internet and in various news sources. So I want to take the opportunity to dispel a few myths about the medieval period.

1. Medieval Christian civilization was not monolithic – We have this picture of the Middle Ages as a singular culture presided over by the pope and various kings and emperors. This simply was not the case. Europe in the medieval period was made up of a group of diverse cultures, and they didn’t always agree or get along. In the church there were also diverse practices and theologies during the medieval period. So we can’t just lump them all in together.

2. Medieval Christian civilization was not barbaric – Many of us have been to the medieval torture museums. We have this idea that Europe during the medieval period was filled with rustic, barbarous peoples for whom torture was their preferred form of entertainment. We have a picture of disease, famine, wars, tortures, and ignorant people who shunned science and technology in favor of rituals, mysticisms, and literal interpretations of the Bible. Well, again, what you learned in school and in other venues was wrong. The medieval torture museums are modern fabrications. These images we have of the middle ages are inventions of the modern world set to disparage a Christian civilization. As I mentioned above, our notions of the Inquisition and the Crusades are caricatures and fabrications. Yes there were evils, yes there was ignorance, but not any more than any other period of time or any other culture. In fact they were much less. The medieval Europeans did quite a good job with the resources and knowledge they had.

3. Medieval Christian civilization was a work in progress – We tend to judge medieval Europe based on modern standards. But this is not fair. In the early to mid-Middle Ages, the cultures represented were only a short time removed from uncultured and unlettered paganism. We in the modern West have had the benefit of 2,000 years of Christian culture to help us to grow and mature. Yes atrocities were committed. Yes, greedy and unscrupulous people did bad things. But we shouldn’t judge early medieval Europe on our modern standards any more than we should try a child as an adult in a court of law.

4. Medieval Christian civilization was not “Dark” – We’ve all heard of the “Dark Ages.” In my Ancient and Medieval Church History class at Covenant Seminary I tell my students that any of them who refers to the medieval period as the “Dark Ages” will receive an automatic F. I’ve yet to have anyone do that. You see, this myth of the Dark Ages was perpetrated by an anti-Christian Enlightenment culture that wanted to disparage the Christian Civilization that was formed during the medieval period. It is in no way true that people in medieval Europe were uneducated, ignorant, or backward. The medievals created the educational systems and the methods that we still use today. They took the treasure of ancient Greek and Roman education and culture and Christianized it for use in the Christian academies of Europe. Charlemagne (yes him) in his General Admonition of 789 mandated that schools (yes schools) be created in every parish and monastery for the education (yes education) of children in reading, writing, and math. He also mandated that parish pastors work to educate (there’s that word again) all the people (yes all, men, women, and children of all classes) in the Christian liturgy and in the content of their faith so that they could be fruitful citizens. The medieval period was all about education, learning, and discovery. What you learned in school was wrong.

Medieval Christian civilization was a mixed bag, as is any society and culture. But my contention is that medieval Christianity was more good than bad, more light than dark, and when judged in light of the tools they had and the progress they made, there is much to give thanks for the foundation they laid for us.

What You Learned About the Middle Ages Was Wrong Theopolis Institute​

Yes, in the name of Christianity, you moron. They justified slavery based on text in the Bible. They believed they were superior human beings and that blacks were subhuman. They believed that because black Africans were not Christian, they were heathens and not worthy of life except to serve the Christians. How ignorant are you anyway? Did you skip school, or do you just have selective memory?

The Bible is the story of the people of Israel. The New Testiment is the story of the Messiah which is what Christianity is based on. I think you need to quit preaching and learn the difference. There is nothing in Jesus teachings that says you can take slaves against their will or kill in the name of God.

Maybe if you people who choose to use the Bible as a reference would crack one once in awhile you'd know this.u

You want to take the word of a compulsive liar like Obama, who said that George Washington made beer in the White House, even though George Washington never lived in the White House because it wasn't even built then.

Are you fucking serious? Do you people actually think you are fooling anyone by pretending that Christians don't consider the Old Testament. I went to Sunday school; I went to church. The Old Testament and the New Testament are both Christian religion. What you are trying to say is that the people who owned slaves and all the European imperialists who decimated so many non-white, non-Christian cultures and murdered millions of people, were not Christians and didn't think of themselves as Christians: your entire premise is ludicrous and pathetic. It is just unbelievable that you think anyone would buy your nonsense. You are completely and totally ignorant of history, or you are trying to twist it into something it isn't. Pathetic.

You're generalizing. Jesus said that the old ways were over. The Old Testament is a series of books on the history of Israel. It was a lesson on what to do and not to do, not a reference on how to murder our brothers. The one doing the twisting is the critics of Christianity.

It's just ludicrous and laughable. Who are your trying to kid? Now you are denying the Old Testament as part of Christianity. Now you are trying to pretend that the Christian cultures of Europe, the colonialists around the world who used black slaves and destroyed hundreds of non-white, non-Christian cultures were not Christians, when half of them were Christian missionaries. It's like the way you try to pretend that the Democratic party a century and a half ago was the same Democratic party it is today. You do realize all this revisionist history of yours is just a joke and the only ones buying it are those trying to sell it? Pathetic, pathetic, pathetic!!!

 

[NYcarbineer]

King Abdullah is the kind of Muslim the President was praising at the prayer breakfast.

And then hung out to dry by not supporting him with arms and equipment.

lol, you don't believe moderate Muslims even exist, you idiot.

Oh, and I can prove it:

This is what boedicca said 6 months ago:

'I believe that when I see massive uprisings of the Mythical Moderate Muslims against the Extremists.'

Bill Maher Absolutely Crushes Charlie Rose For Comparing Islam To Christianity Page 12 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Can we put you down as an egg faced believer now?

lol

 

[eagle1462010]

CURRENT EVENTS is a subject that Liberals ARE CURRENTLY FAILING.

Must be a COMMON CORE thing.

 

[mudwhistle]

Not in the name of Jesus. How many people have been murdered while zealots are screaming praise Allah compared to screaming Jesus???

Earlier this week our President made some comments at the national prayer breakfast. In the spirit of hospitality and inclusion he wished to address the recent horrifically evil actions by ISIS by saying that we Christians also have also perpetrated evil in the name of our religion. He gave three examples, two of which I want to make comments on here.

I want to first give this caveat that the purpose of this little essay is not to pick on the President. He simply presents a convenient opportunity for me to address many of our misconceptions about medieval Christian Civilization. I really don’t blame the President for thinking what he does more than I do anyone else. These misconceptions have been commonplace in our national educational system for quite some time.

Back to the point, the three examples President Obama gave do certainly point out that Christians are capable of evil. The evils of American slavery and reconstruction Jim Crow were, as President Obama said, “often justified in the name of Christ.” I want to acknowledge that fact, though that particular evil is not the focus of this essay.

As for the Inquisition, I’m not sure which Inquisition the President was referring to, but it is presumably the caricature we have received of people being tortured for their faith. That caricature reads more like a Jack Chick tract than historical reality. The old legends about the horrors of the Inquisition were largely exaggerated political propaganda. Twentieth century scholars have pushed back against that narrative arguing that the Spanish Inquisition (the particular Inquisition in question, presumably) was more humane than other contemporary trials and prisons. Yes, people did commit evil, but these events were isolated. The Inquisition (in general) was more a method of trying people for heresy than it was an excuse for torture, and the result of a guilty verdict in the vast majority of cases was excommunication not death. What you learned in school was wrong.

And as for the Crusades, yes atrocities were committed, but were they done in the name of Christ? We must acknowledge that evils were committed during the Crusades by evil, unscrupulous people. But we must also acknowledge that those acts were widely repented of and condemned, and that they were never the purpose of the Crusades. The purpose of the Crusades was to defend Christians who were being attacked by ever-encroaching Islamic armies. The Crusades were defensive wars in their conception. Yet, pick a war, any war, and you will find evil, unscrupulous people who get involved for their own wicked reasons and for their own greedy ends. Such is the nature of war, it attracts wicked people bent on destruction. Yet we do have a place in Christian theology for a just war, and at least on paper, the Crusades were just wars.

The president’s statement has also lead to a series of comments and references to the Middle Ages all over the internet and in various news sources. So I want to take the opportunity to dispel a few myths about the medieval period.

1. Medieval Christian civilization was not monolithic – We have this picture of the Middle Ages as a singular culture presided over by the pope and various kings and emperors. This simply was not the case. Europe in the medieval period was made up of a group of diverse cultures, and they didn’t always agree or get along. In the church there were also diverse practices and theologies during the medieval period. So we can’t just lump them all in together.

2. Medieval Christian civilization was not barbaric – Many of us have been to the medieval torture museums. We have this idea that Europe during the medieval period was filled with rustic, barbarous peoples for whom torture was their preferred form of entertainment. We have a picture of disease, famine, wars, tortures, and ignorant people who shunned science and technology in favor of rituals, mysticisms, and literal interpretations of the Bible. Well, again, what you learned in school and in other venues was wrong. The medieval torture museums are modern fabrications. These images we have of the middle ages are inventions of the modern world set to disparage a Christian civilization. As I mentioned above, our notions of the Inquisition and the Crusades are caricatures and fabrications. Yes there were evils, yes there was ignorance, but not any more than any other period of time or any other culture. In fact they were much less. The medieval Europeans did quite a good job with the resources and knowledge they had.

3. Medieval Christian civilization was a work in progress – We tend to judge medieval Europe based on modern standards. But this is not fair. In the early to mid-Middle Ages, the cultures represented were only a short time removed from uncultured and unlettered paganism. We in the modern West have had the benefit of 2,000 years of Christian culture to help us to grow and mature. Yes atrocities were committed. Yes, greedy and unscrupulous people did bad things. But we shouldn’t judge early medieval Europe on our modern standards any more than we should try a child as an adult in a court of law.

4. Medieval Christian civilization was not “Dark” – We’ve all heard of the “Dark Ages.” In my Ancient and Medieval Church History class at Covenant Seminary I tell my students that any of them who refers to the medieval period as the “Dark Ages” will receive an automatic F. I’ve yet to have anyone do that. You see, this myth of the Dark Ages was perpetrated by an anti-Christian Enlightenment culture that wanted to disparage the Christian Civilization that was formed during the medieval period. It is in no way true that people in medieval Europe were uneducated, ignorant, or backward. The medievals created the educational systems and the methods that we still use today. They took the treasure of ancient Greek and Roman education and culture and Christianized it for use in the Christian academies of Europe. Charlemagne (yes him) in his General Admonition of 789 mandated that schools (yes schools) be created in every parish and monastery for the education (yes education) of children in reading, writing, and math. He also mandated that parish pastors work to educate (there’s that word again) all the people (yes all, men, women, and children of all classes) in the Christian liturgy and in the content of their faith so that they could be fruitful citizens. The medieval period was all about education, learning, and discovery. What you learned in school was wrong.

Medieval Christian civilization was a mixed bag, as is any society and culture. But my contention is that medieval Christianity was more good than bad, more light than dark, and when judged in light of the tools they had and the progress they made, there is much to give thanks for the foundation they laid for us.

What You Learned About the Middle Ages Was Wrong Theopolis Institute​

Yes, in the name of Christianity, you moron. They justified slavery based on text in the Bible. They believed they were superior human beings and that blacks were subhuman. They believed that because black Africans were not Christian, they were heathens and not worthy of life except to serve the Christians. How ignorant are you anyway? Did you skip school, or do you just have selective memory?

The Bible is the story of the people of Israel. The New Testiment is the story of the Messiah which is what Christianity is based on. I think you need to quit preaching and learn the difference. There is nothing in Jesus teachings that says you can take slaves against their will or kill in the name of God.

Maybe if you people who choose to use the Bible as a reference would crack one once in awhile you'd know this.u

You want to take the word of a compulsive liar like Obama, who said that George Washington made beer in the White House, even though George Washington never lived in the White House because it wasn't even built then.

Are you fucking serious? Do you people actually think you are fooling anyone by pretending that Christians don't consider the Old Testament. I went to Sunday school; I went to church. The Old Testament and the New Testament are both Christian religion. What you are trying to say is that the people who owned slaves and all the European imperialists who decimated so many non-white, non-Christian cultures and murdered millions of people, were not Christians and didn't think of themselves as Christians: your entire premise is ludicrous and pathetic. It is just unbelievable that you think anyone would buy your nonsense. You are completely and totally ignorant of history, or you are trying to twist it into something it isn't. Pathetic.

We did have that little chat about ditsy platitudes, did we not?

No one thinks you're an intellectual, but stop constantly seeking the lowest rung.

It's not surprising that the import and meaning of what Abdullah does flies right over your pointy little head.

People of character and passion simply make her green with envy...


I crack Myself up....

People like her elected Obama, so clearly she shares his lack of values.

Obama made of point of showing us during the prayer breakfast that he can't see evil for what it is. He compares Christianity with ISIS. For the most part what Christians have done throughout history is hurt sinner's feelings. What was the worse thing that could happen to you if you're a member of a Christian church? Be ex-communicated? With ISIS you get burned alive.

This illustrates how utterly stupid you are. If ISIS represents Islam, why is King Abdulla against them? Why is the UAE against them? Why is Saudi against them? Why is Bharain against them? The vast majority of Muslims around the world are against ISIS which is a terrorist organization and does not reflect true Islam. And here your are congratulating Jordan for fight against them, but at the same time saying that ISIS represents Islam: Jordan is an Islamic country. You are talking out of both sides of your mouth, and the only reason for doing that is your dislike of Obama. You are such a complete hypocrite.

Every day on this board somewhere these same rightwingers are trying to convince us that Islam is an irredeemable, incorrigible, unreformable violent barbaric religion,

in its entirety.

Today they're gushing over a Muslim they'd otherwise be claiming can't exist.

Lying as usual.

Total apologist.

I suggest you turn yourself into ISIS and see how redeemable they become.......after they saw your head off.

 

[mudwhistle]

King Abdullah is the kind of Muslim the President was praising at the prayer breakfast.

And then hung out to dry by not supporting him with arms and equipment.

lol, you don't believe moderate Muslims even exist, you idiot.

Oh, and I can prove it:

This is what boedicca said 6 months ago:

'I believe that when I see massive uprisings of the Mythical Moderate Muslims against the Extremists.'

Bill Maher Absolutely Crushes Charlie Rose For Comparing Islam To Christianity Page 12 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Can we put you down as an egg faced believer now?

lol

Why are you quoting yourself?

Did you forget who you are?

 

[eagle1462010]

King Abdullah is the kind of Muslim the President was praising at the prayer breakfast.

And then hung out to dry by not supporting him with arms and equipment.

lol, you don't believe moderate Muslims even exist, you idiot.

Oh, and I can prove it:

This is what boedicca said 6 months ago:

'I believe that when I see massive uprisings of the Mythical Moderate Muslims against the Extremists.'

Bill Maher Absolutely Crushes Charlie Rose For Comparing Islam To Christianity Page 12 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Can we put you down as an egg faced believer now?

lol

Why are you quoting yourself?

Did you forget who you are?

 

[mudwhistle]

Not in the name of Jesus. How many people have been murdered while zealots are screaming praise Allah compared to screaming Jesus???

Earlier this week our President made some comments at the national prayer breakfast. In the spirit of hospitality and inclusion he wished to address the recent horrifically evil actions by ISIS by saying that we Christians also have also perpetrated evil in the name of our religion. He gave three examples, two of which I want to make comments on here.

I want to first give this caveat that the purpose of this little essay is not to pick on the President. He simply presents a convenient opportunity for me to address many of our misconceptions about medieval Christian Civilization. I really don’t blame the President for thinking what he does more than I do anyone else. These misconceptions have been commonplace in our national educational system for quite some time.

Back to the point, the three examples President Obama gave do certainly point out that Christians are capable of evil. The evils of American slavery and reconstruction Jim Crow were, as President Obama said, “often justified in the name of Christ.” I want to acknowledge that fact, though that particular evil is not the focus of this essay.

As for the Inquisition, I’m not sure which Inquisition the President was referring to, but it is presumably the caricature we have received of people being tortured for their faith. That caricature reads more like a Jack Chick tract than historical reality. The old legends about the horrors of the Inquisition were largely exaggerated political propaganda. Twentieth century scholars have pushed back against that narrative arguing that the Spanish Inquisition (the particular Inquisition in question, presumably) was more humane than other contemporary trials and prisons. Yes, people did commit evil, but these events were isolated. The Inquisition (in general) was more a method of trying people for heresy than it was an excuse for torture, and the result of a guilty verdict in the vast majority of cases was excommunication not death. What you learned in school was wrong.

And as for the Crusades, yes atrocities were committed, but were they done in the name of Christ? We must acknowledge that evils were committed during the Crusades by evil, unscrupulous people. But we must also acknowledge that those acts were widely repented of and condemned, and that they were never the purpose of the Crusades. The purpose of the Crusades was to defend Christians who were being attacked by ever-encroaching Islamic armies. The Crusades were defensive wars in their conception. Yet, pick a war, any war, and you will find evil, unscrupulous people who get involved for their own wicked reasons and for their own greedy ends. Such is the nature of war, it attracts wicked people bent on destruction. Yet we do have a place in Christian theology for a just war, and at least on paper, the Crusades were just wars.

The president’s statement has also lead to a series of comments and references to the Middle Ages all over the internet and in various news sources. So I want to take the opportunity to dispel a few myths about the medieval period.

1. Medieval Christian civilization was not monolithic – We have this picture of the Middle Ages as a singular culture presided over by the pope and various kings and emperors. This simply was not the case. Europe in the medieval period was made up of a group of diverse cultures, and they didn’t always agree or get along. In the church there were also diverse practices and theologies during the medieval period. So we can’t just lump them all in together.

2. Medieval Christian civilization was not barbaric – Many of us have been to the medieval torture museums. We have this idea that Europe during the medieval period was filled with rustic, barbarous peoples for whom torture was their preferred form of entertainment. We have a picture of disease, famine, wars, tortures, and ignorant people who shunned science and technology in favor of rituals, mysticisms, and literal interpretations of the Bible. Well, again, what you learned in school and in other venues was wrong. The medieval torture museums are modern fabrications. These images we have of the middle ages are inventions of the modern world set to disparage a Christian civilization. As I mentioned above, our notions of the Inquisition and the Crusades are caricatures and fabrications. Yes there were evils, yes there was ignorance, but not any more than any other period of time or any other culture. In fact they were much less. The medieval Europeans did quite a good job with the resources and knowledge they had.

3. Medieval Christian civilization was a work in progress – We tend to judge medieval Europe based on modern standards. But this is not fair. In the early to mid-Middle Ages, the cultures represented were only a short time removed from uncultured and unlettered paganism. We in the modern West have had the benefit of 2,000 years of Christian culture to help us to grow and mature. Yes atrocities were committed. Yes, greedy and unscrupulous people did bad things. But we shouldn’t judge early medieval Europe on our modern standards any more than we should try a child as an adult in a court of law.

4. Medieval Christian civilization was not “Dark” – We’ve all heard of the “Dark Ages.” In my Ancient and Medieval Church History class at Covenant Seminary I tell my students that any of them who refers to the medieval period as the “Dark Ages” will receive an automatic F. I’ve yet to have anyone do that. You see, this myth of the Dark Ages was perpetrated by an anti-Christian Enlightenment culture that wanted to disparage the Christian Civilization that was formed during the medieval period. It is in no way true that people in medieval Europe were uneducated, ignorant, or backward. The medievals created the educational systems and the methods that we still use today. They took the treasure of ancient Greek and Roman education and culture and Christianized it for use in the Christian academies of Europe. Charlemagne (yes him) in his General Admonition of 789 mandated that schools (yes schools) be created in every parish and monastery for the education (yes education) of children in reading, writing, and math. He also mandated that parish pastors work to educate (there’s that word again) all the people (yes all, men, women, and children of all classes) in the Christian liturgy and in the content of their faith so that they could be fruitful citizens. The medieval period was all about education, learning, and discovery. What you learned in school was wrong.

Medieval Christian civilization was a mixed bag, as is any society and culture. But my contention is that medieval Christianity was more good than bad, more light than dark, and when judged in light of the tools they had and the progress they made, there is much to give thanks for the foundation they laid for us.

What You Learned About the Middle Ages Was Wrong Theopolis Institute​

Yes, in the name of Christianity, you moron. They justified slavery based on text in the Bible. They believed they were superior human beings and that blacks were subhuman. They believed that because black Africans were not Christian, they were heathens and not worthy of life except to serve the Christians. How ignorant are you anyway? Did you skip school, or do you just have selective memory?

The Bible is the story of the people of Israel. The New Testiment is the story of the Messiah which is what Christianity is based on. I think you need to quit preaching and learn the difference. There is nothing in Jesus teachings that says you can take slaves against their will or kill in the name of God.

Maybe if you people who choose to use the Bible as a reference would crack one once in awhile you'd know this.u

You want to take the word of a compulsive liar like Obama, who said that George Washington made beer in the White House, even though George Washington never lived in the White House because it wasn't even built then.

Are you fucking serious? Do you people actually think you are fooling anyone by pretending that Christians don't consider the Old Testament. I went to Sunday school; I went to church. The Old Testament and the New Testament are both Christian religion. What you are trying to say is that the people who owned slaves and all the European imperialists who decimated so many non-white, non-Christian cultures and murdered millions of people, were not Christians and didn't think of themselves as Christians: your entire premise is ludicrous and pathetic. It is just unbelievable that you think anyone would buy your nonsense. You are completely and totally ignorant of history, or you are trying to twist it into something it isn't. Pathetic.

You're generalizing. Jesus said that the old ways were over. The Old Testiment is a series of books on the history of Israel. It was a lesson on what to do and not to do. Not a reference on how to murder our brothers. The one doing the twisting is the critics of Christianity.

Is throwing the Old Testament under the bus the best you fake Christians have now?

Priceless.

Liar

Every time you lie it's time to chug a beer.

 

[Esmeralda]

Not in the name of Jesus. How many people have been murdered while zealots are screaming praise Allah compared to screaming Jesus???

Earlier this week our President made some comments at the national prayer breakfast. In the spirit of hospitality and inclusion he wished to address the recent horrifically evil actions by ISIS by saying that we Christians also have also perpetrated evil in the name of our religion. He gave three examples, two of which I want to make comments on here.

I want to first give this caveat that the purpose of this little essay is not to pick on the President. He simply presents a convenient opportunity for me to address many of our misconceptions about medieval Christian Civilization. I really don’t blame the President for thinking what he does more than I do anyone else. These misconceptions have been commonplace in our national educational system for quite some time.

Back to the point, the three examples President Obama gave do certainly point out that Christians are capable of evil. The evils of American slavery and reconstruction Jim Crow were, as President Obama said, “often justified in the name of Christ.” I want to acknowledge that fact, though that particular evil is not the focus of this essay.

As for the Inquisition, I’m not sure which Inquisition the President was referring to, but it is presumably the caricature we have received of people being tortured for their faith. That caricature reads more like a Jack Chick tract than historical reality. The old legends about the horrors of the Inquisition were largely exaggerated political propaganda. Twentieth century scholars have pushed back against that narrative arguing that the Spanish Inquisition (the particular Inquisition in question, presumably) was more humane than other contemporary trials and prisons. Yes, people did commit evil, but these events were isolated. The Inquisition (in general) was more a method of trying people for heresy than it was an excuse for torture, and the result of a guilty verdict in the vast majority of cases was excommunication not death. What you learned in school was wrong.

And as for the Crusades, yes atrocities were committed, but were they done in the name of Christ? We must acknowledge that evils were committed during the Crusades by evil, unscrupulous people. But we must also acknowledge that those acts were widely repented of and condemned, and that they were never the purpose of the Crusades. The purpose of the Crusades was to defend Christians who were being attacked by ever-encroaching Islamic armies. The Crusades were defensive wars in their conception. Yet, pick a war, any war, and you will find evil, unscrupulous people who get involved for their own wicked reasons and for their own greedy ends. Such is the nature of war, it attracts wicked people bent on destruction. Yet we do have a place in Christian theology for a just war, and at least on paper, the Crusades were just wars.

The president’s statement has also lead to a series of comments and references to the Middle Ages all over the internet and in various news sources. So I want to take the opportunity to dispel a few myths about the medieval period.

1. Medieval Christian civilization was not monolithic – We have this picture of the Middle Ages as a singular culture presided over by the pope and various kings and emperors. This simply was not the case. Europe in the medieval period was made up of a group of diverse cultures, and they didn’t always agree or get along. In the church there were also diverse practices and theologies during the medieval period. So we can’t just lump them all in together.

2. Medieval Christian civilization was not barbaric – Many of us have been to the medieval torture museums. We have this idea that Europe during the medieval period was filled with rustic, barbarous peoples for whom torture was their preferred form of entertainment. We have a picture of disease, famine, wars, tortures, and ignorant people who shunned science and technology in favor of rituals, mysticisms, and literal interpretations of the Bible. Well, again, what you learned in school and in other venues was wrong. The medieval torture museums are modern fabrications. These images we have of the middle ages are inventions of the modern world set to disparage a Christian civilization. As I mentioned above, our notions of the Inquisition and the Crusades are caricatures and fabrications. Yes there were evils, yes there was ignorance, but not any more than any other period of time or any other culture. In fact they were much less. The medieval Europeans did quite a good job with the resources and knowledge they had.

3. Medieval Christian civilization was a work in progress – We tend to judge medieval Europe based on modern standards. But this is not fair. In the early to mid-Middle Ages, the cultures represented were only a short time removed from uncultured and unlettered paganism. We in the modern West have had the benefit of 2,000 years of Christian culture to help us to grow and mature. Yes atrocities were committed. Yes, greedy and unscrupulous people did bad things. But we shouldn’t judge early medieval Europe on our modern standards any more than we should try a child as an adult in a court of law.

4. Medieval Christian civilization was not “Dark” – We’ve all heard of the “Dark Ages.” In my Ancient and Medieval Church History class at Covenant Seminary I tell my students that any of them who refers to the medieval period as the “Dark Ages” will receive an automatic F. I’ve yet to have anyone do that. You see, this myth of the Dark Ages was perpetrated by an anti-Christian Enlightenment culture that wanted to disparage the Christian Civilization that was formed during the medieval period. It is in no way true that people in medieval Europe were uneducated, ignorant, or backward. The medievals created the educational systems and the methods that we still use today. They took the treasure of ancient Greek and Roman education and culture and Christianized it for use in the Christian academies of Europe. Charlemagne (yes him) in his General Admonition of 789 mandated that schools (yes schools) be created in every parish and monastery for the education (yes education) of children in reading, writing, and math. He also mandated that parish pastors work to educate (there’s that word again) all the people (yes all, men, women, and children of all classes) in the Christian liturgy and in the content of their faith so that they could be fruitful citizens. The medieval period was all about education, learning, and discovery. What you learned in school was wrong.

Medieval Christian civilization was a mixed bag, as is any society and culture. But my contention is that medieval Christianity was more good than bad, more light than dark, and when judged in light of the tools they had and the progress they made, there is much to give thanks for the foundation they laid for us.

What You Learned About the Middle Ages Was Wrong Theopolis Institute​

Yes, in the name of Christianity, you moron. They justified slavery based on text in the Bible. They believed they were superior human beings and that blacks were subhuman. They believed that because black Africans were not Christian, they were heathens and not worthy of life except to serve the Christians. How ignorant are you anyway? Did you skip school, or do you just have selective memory?

The Bible is the story of the people of Israel. The New Testiment is the story of the Messiah which is what Christianity is based on. I think you need to quit preaching and learn the difference. There is nothing in Jesus teachings that says you can take slaves against their will or kill in the name of God.

Maybe if you people who choose to use the Bible as a reference would crack one once in awhile you'd know this.u

You want to take the word of a compulsive liar like Obama, who said that George Washington made beer in the White House, even though George Washington never lived in the White House because it wasn't even built then.

Are you fucking serious? Do you people actually think you are fooling anyone by pretending that Christians don't consider the Old Testament. I went to Sunday school; I went to church. The Old Testament and the New Testament are both Christian religion. What you are trying to say is that the people who owned slaves and all the European imperialists who decimated so many non-white, non-Christian cultures and murdered millions of people, were not Christians and didn't think of themselves as Christians: your entire premise is ludicrous and pathetic. It is just unbelievable that you think anyone would buy your nonsense. You are completely and totally ignorant of history, or you are trying to twist it into something it isn't. Pathetic.

You're generalizing. Jesus said that the old ways were over. The Old Testiment is a series of books on the history of Israel. It was a lesson on what to do and not to do. Not a reference on how to murder our brothers. The one doing the twisting is the critics of Christianity.

Is throwing the Old Testament under the bus the best you fake Christians have now?

Priceless.

They will throw anything under the bus to try to justify themselves, God, their religion, their country....anything.

 

[Meathead]

I suggest you turn yourself into ISIS and see how redeemable they become.......after they saw your head off.

No, I'm sure they would prefer the traditional goats to her.

 

[Contumacious]

King Abdullah , a Sunni, will pay dearly for being a US puppet. Once his people understand the ramifications of helping the US fight ISIS. that the US removed Saddam, also a Sunni from power. That his father , King Hussein, refused to help Bush II during the Iraqi invasion.Sunni nations like Turkey and Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states have not committed more openly and decisively to the war on ISIS,

Maybe his father, King Hussein, refused to help Bush because he died in 1999. Idiot!

The US invaded Iraq in 1990.


"On February 6th 1991 King Hussein of Jordan decided to defect from the coalition and started supporting Iraq after verbally complaining about American bombing in Iraq. "


.

 

[Esmeralda]

King Abdullah is the kind of Muslim the President was praising at the prayer breakfast.

And then hung out to dry by not supporting him with arms and equipment.

lol, you don't believe moderate Muslims even exist, you idiot.

Oh, and I can prove it:

This is what boedicca said 6 months ago:

'I believe that when I see massive uprisings of the Mythical Moderate Muslims against the Extremists.'

Bill Maher Absolutely Crushes Charlie Rose For Comparing Islam To Christianity Page 12 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Can we put you down as an egg faced believer now?

lol

Why are you quoting yourself?

Did you forget who you are?

This is all you've got? Wow. Very impressive.

 

[eagle1462010]

Yes, in the name of Christianity, you moron. They justified slavery based on text in the Bible. They believed they were superior human beings and that blacks were subhuman. They believed that because black Africans were not Christian, they were heathens and not worthy of life except to serve the Christians. How ignorant are you anyway? Did you skip school, or do you just have selective memory?

The Bible is the story of the people of Israel. The New Testiment is the story of the Messiah which is what Christianity is based on. I think you need to quit preaching and learn the difference. There is nothing in Jesus teachings that says you can take slaves against their will or kill in the name of God.

Maybe if you people who choose to use the Bible as a reference would crack one once in awhile you'd know this.u

You want to take the word of a compulsive liar like Obama, who said that George Washington made beer in the White House, even though George Washington never lived in the White House because it wasn't even built then.

Are you fucking serious? Do you people actually think you are fooling anyone by pretending that Christians don't consider the Old Testament. I went to Sunday school; I went to church. The Old Testament and the New Testament are both Christian religion. What you are trying to say is that the people who owned slaves and all the European imperialists who decimated so many non-white, non-Christian cultures and murdered millions of people, were not Christians and didn't think of themselves as Christians: your entire premise is ludicrous and pathetic. It is just unbelievable that you think anyone would buy your nonsense. You are completely and totally ignorant of history, or you are trying to twist it into something it isn't. Pathetic.

You're generalizing. Jesus said that the old ways were over. The Old Testiment is a series of books on the history of Israel. It was a lesson on what to do and not to do. Not a reference on how to murder our brothers. The one doing the twisting is the critics of Christianity.

Is throwing the Old Testament under the bus the best you fake Christians have now?

Priceless.

They will throw anything under the bus to try to justify themselves, God, their religion, their country....anything.

I had thought to throw a Liberal under a bus, but then....................................

There are just some things we shouldn't do to a bus.

 

[mudwhistle]

Yes, in the name of Christianity, you moron. They justified slavery based on text in the Bible. They believed they were superior human beings and that blacks were subhuman. They believed that because black Africans were not Christian, they were heathens and not worthy of life except to serve the Christians. How ignorant are you anyway? Did you skip school, or do you just have selective memory?

The Bible is the story of the people of Israel. The New Testiment is the story of the Messiah which is what Christianity is based on. I think you need to quit preaching and learn the difference. There is nothing in Jesus teachings that says you can take slaves against their will or kill in the name of God.

Maybe if you people who choose to use the Bible as a reference would crack one once in awhile you'd know this.u

You want to take the word of a compulsive liar like Obama, who said that George Washington made beer in the White House, even though George Washington never lived in the White House because it wasn't even built then.

Are you fucking serious? Do you people actually think you are fooling anyone by pretending that Christians don't consider the Old Testament. I went to Sunday school; I went to church. The Old Testament and the New Testament are both Christian religion. What you are trying to say is that the people who owned slaves and all the European imperialists who decimated so many non-white, non-Christian cultures and murdered millions of people, were not Christians and didn't think of themselves as Christians: your entire premise is ludicrous and pathetic. It is just unbelievable that you think anyone would buy your nonsense. You are completely and totally ignorant of history, or you are trying to twist it into something it isn't. Pathetic.

You're generalizing. Jesus said that the old ways were over. The Old Testiment is a series of books on the history of Israel. It was a lesson on what to do and not to do. Not a reference on how to murder our brothers. The one doing the twisting is the critics of Christianity.

Is throwing the Old Testament under the bus the best you fake Christians have now?

Priceless.

They will throw anything under the bus to try to justify themselves, God, their religion, their country....anything.

 

[boedicca]

King Abdullah is the kind of Muslim the President was praising at the prayer breakfast.

And then hung out to dry by not supporting him with arms and equipment.

lol, you don't believe moderate Muslims even exist, you idiot.

Oh, and I can prove it:

This is what boedicca said 6 months ago:

'I believe that when I see massive uprisings of the Mythical Moderate Muslims against the Extremists.'

Bill Maher Absolutely Crushes Charlie Rose For Comparing Islam To Christianity Page 12 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Can we put you down as an egg faced believer now?

lol

That's funny. On the one hand, you loons dismiss Jordan as being a small, insignificant country, and now you are using it as an example of of Massive Uprising of Moderate Muslims against extremists.

I'm encouraged that they are taking a stand. I hope, for the sake of humanity, that we see more of this throughout the entire world.