If God gave his only son to die for our sins.....?

[Avatar4321]

I was speaking of his rhetoric. As for the verse there it doesn't make sense to portray God that way. I believe this

Surah 112
"He begets not, nor was He begotten;
"And there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him."

Unfortunatley, the Lord disagrees. Ask Him about it.

Oh really? I never knew you met The Lord.

Anyone can know the Lord if the seek Him in humility and sincerely. After all "this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3)

The scriptures teach us how we can know God. They are a tool to help us have our own experiences with the Lord.

God has been the same from the beginning. He has always revealed Himself to His children. Why would you think God would change now?

He is ready to welcome you with open arms. Find a closet. Kneel down in humility and ask the Lord to reveal Himself to you through His Spirit. That you might know Him and have Eternal Life. He will reveal Himself to you and He will reveal the Son to you. When the Spirit has taught you the truth, you cannot deny it.

 

[Avatar4321]

Avatar so tell me if I was a Jew, I don't believe in the trinity concept nor do I believe Jesus is a God. Does The Lord disagree with me? Or does he only disagree with Muslims?

I am sure He would disagree with anyone who believes in something that isn't true. After all God is truth. He teaches us truth from the Heavens through His own voice and the voice of His servants. And we all fall short and err. That's true regardless of whether we are Christian, Muslim, Jewish, or anything else.

That's why making sure we have clear lines of communication with the Father are so important. Because if we live our lives to crowd out His voice, we cannot be corrected as easily as if we humbly seek and follow the Lord.

Why would you think God would agree with someone has incorrect beliefs or practices regardless of their faith? There are alot of Christians He likely isnt happy with either. But He is merciful and understanding. He will always reach out to us. He will lead us to correction and teach us truth Doctrine, if we seek it out.

 

[Avatar4321]

Unfortunatley, the Lord disagrees. Ask Him about it.

Oh really? I never knew you met The Lord.

So, you haven't been paying attention to his posts? He has made his belief that he has a personal relationship quite clear.

I also make it quite clear that I am not special in that. Anyone can have a relationship with the Lord if they seek it. The Lord is ready to welcome all with open arms. He reveals Himself to His children. The scriptures teach us how to be reconciled with God.

I am not the first, I won't be the last. The Lord will reveal Himself to His children when He chooses to.

 

[Avatar4321]

Every religious person has a relationship with God, that doesn't mean he answers your questions. Asking God is through prayer. There's no such thing as saying you've seen God either. I remember a Christian telling me God came and sat on their couch. I walked out after I heard that.

But He does answer our questions. He does respond to our petitions. What would be the purpose of prayer if He didn't answer them? How are we supposed to know God without hearing His voice and doing His will?

"Blessed are the pure of Heart, for they shall see God" (Matthew 5:8)

You think Jesus was lying about that? I don't. The pure of heart will see God. Many of them have.

Moses and the Elders of Israel saw God while they wandered in the Wilderness. Isaiah saw God when He was called to prophecy to the children of Israel. Jacob, who became Israel, saw God face to face. Enoch walked with God. Samson's parents were visted by the Lord. The scriptures testify that King Solomon saw the Lord twice. Peter, James, and John heard the voice of the Father testify to them that Jesus Christ is His Son. Adam walked with God in the Garden of Eden.

And we have modern witnesses:

And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he lives!

For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father—

That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God. (D&C 76:21-24)

If you are a Muslim, then you must be aware of the Ascension of Mohammed where he was said to ascended into heaven and speak to the Lord face to face. If you believe that, why would you believe that God is somehow unable to reveal Himself to man now?

 

[The Irish Ram]

I have yet to read any theologian who can give a rational explanation for how anyone can die for the sins of people who won't even be born until centuries later.

Keep reading then.
Try scientists if your theologians can't figure it out. Because the answer is dimensions.
You have 4.
To watch a parade, you stand on the ground. You see the parade once it turns the corner and passes in front of you. When it turns another corner it is out of your sight.
Watch from a different vantage point, say a helicopter, and you see where the parade started, where it goes, and where the parade ends up.

You are limited by time, one of our 4 dimensions. God is not. You can't go forward or backward in time. You are bound. God is not.

Nope. That explanation can't work unless you assume absolute predetermination for all acts. Not possible if you also assume that humans have free will.

Isaiah 46:10
I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please. ... declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet ...

If you don't believe it, set Revelation and today's newspaper in front of you.

My point wasn't whether I, personally, believe it: my point was that there's no rational explanation of it. Those who do believe it have no choice but to take it on blind faith.

Free will has nothing to do with God seeing the end from the beginning. That is scientific.
Free will determines whether or not we choose to be children of God. I chose to accept His grace, you do not. Free will.

Knowing the end from the beginning has less to do with predetermination, than it does with knowledge of actions in future tense. Man has changed God's mind more than once. Predetermination would leave no room for flexibility, which God has shown. Remember Aaron and the incense?

See, God didn't predetermine that all nations should rise up against Israel. Or even that there would be an Israel. He just made us privy to what He has already seen, and how this mess we are in, is going to turn out. He even names the countries that will lead the assault against Israel. Why can't you do that?
Two thousand years later, and here we are, living in a time that the Bible describes in detail, more than any other time in history. No faith necessary.

One man's 'global initiative", is another's warning of the tribulation. Faith is believing that God's prophecies will culminate in the return of the Lord, and then some....

 

[Wonky Pundit]

Keep reading then.
Try scientists if your theologians can't figure it out. Because the answer is dimensions.
You have 4.
To watch a parade, you stand on the ground. You see the parade once it turns the corner and passes in front of you. When it turns another corner it is out of your sight.
Watch from a different vantage point, say a helicopter, and you see where the parade started, where it goes, and where the parade ends up.

You are limited by time, one of our 4 dimensions. God is not. You can't go forward or backward in time. You are bound. God is not.

Nope. That explanation can't work unless you assume absolute predetermination for all acts. Not possible if you also assume that humans have free will.

If you don't believe it, set Revelation and today's newspaper in front of you.

My point wasn't whether I, personally, believe it: my point was that there's no rational explanation of it. Those who do believe it have no choice but to take it on blind faith.

Free will has nothing to do with God seeing the end from the beginning. That is scientific.
Free will determines whether or not we choose to be children of God. I chose to accept His grace, you do not. Free will.

Knowing the end from the beginning has less to do with predetermination, than it does with knowledge of actions in future tense. Man has changed God's mind more than once. Predetermination would leave no room for flexibility, which God has shown. Remember Aaron and the incense?

See, God didn't predetermine that all nations should rise up against Israel. Or even that there would be an Israel. He just made us privy to what He has already seen, and how this mess we are in, is going to turn out. He even names the countries that will lead the assault against Israel. Why can't you do that?
Two thousand years later, and here we are, living in a time that the Bible describes in detail, more than any other time in history. No faith necessary.

One man's 'global initiative", is another's warning of the tribulation. Faith is believing that God's prophecies will culminate in the return of the Lord, and then some....

You just contradicted your previous assertion.

With flexibility, it is impossible to account for every single sin to be committed throughout all future time.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Moses saw God's butt. God put him in a crevice of a rock and put his hand over Moses' face until He passed by Him.
He used to walk in the garden in the cool of the evening with Adam. He laughed and ate stew with Abraham. He sat in the Holy of Holies in the temple.
And He is user friendly. He has placed a piece of Himself into anyone who acts for it, and that Spirit of God will have a personal relationship with you rain or shine. He is that close.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Nope. That explanation can't work unless you assume absolute predetermination for all acts. Not possible if you also assume that humans have free will.




My point wasn't whether I, personally, believe it: my point was that there's no rational explanation of it. Those who do believe it have no choice but to take it on blind faith.

Free will has nothing to do with God seeing the end from the beginning. That is scientific.
Free will determines whether or not we choose to be children of God. I chose to accept His grace, you do not. Free will.

Knowing the end from the beginning has less to do with predetermination, than it does with knowledge of actions in future tense. Man has changed God's mind more than once. Predetermination would leave no room for flexibility, which God has shown. Remember Aaron and the incense?

See, God didn't predetermine that all nations should rise up against Israel. Or even that there would be an Israel. He just made us privy to what He has already seen, and how this mess we are in, is going to turn out. He even names the countries that will lead the assault against Israel. Why can't you do that?
Two thousand years later, and here we are, living in a time that the Bible describes in detail, more than any other time in history. No faith necessary.

One man's 'global initiative", is another's warning of the tribulation. Faith is believing that God's prophecies will culminate in the return of the Lord, and then some....

You just contradicted your previous assertion.

With flexibility, it is impossible to account for every single sin to be committed throughout all future time.

Not at all. His flexibility was in not killing them all. It has nothing to do with accounting.

 

[Avatar4321]

.

Here is what is so special about Jesus:

He died so you may live. When Christ was hanging on that cross, he traded places with you.
He paid for every sin you have and will commit.

I have yet to read any theologian who can give a rational explanation for how anyone can die for the sins of people who won't even be born until centuries later.

Why would Christ be unable to perform the Atonement for the sins of the world prior to someone being born when God already knows their lives?

The Atonement for our sins works because Christ, being holy and perfect, suffered the most gruesome death ever imagined to man. He suffered more than any other man could. He did this voluntarily out of love for all of us. Because of His suffering, the Lord cannot deny Him anything. Thus those who repent and have taken upon themselves of the name of Christ can be given forgiveness for mistakes because Christ asks for them. Those who, despite the offer, mock and crucify Christ afresh don't benefit from the offer beyond the resurrection from the dead. They must suffer the consequences of their actions when they could otherwise have not.

 

[Avatar4321]

You're a so called 'atheist' and you're telling me I'm in a world of hurt because I'm not as naive as fools and liars? You actually believe that nonsense. Ha Ha Ha Ha! Hysterical.

You believe the people who corrupted Mohammed's teachings. Does that make you a fool and liar?

 

[Avatar4321]

You're a so called 'atheist' and you're telling me I'm in a world of hurt because I'm not as naive as fools and liars? You actually believe that nonsense. Ha Ha Ha Ha! Hysterical.

To whom are you referring? Where did the term 'atheist' become associated with my identity here?

Also, you need to sharpen your skills at recognizing hyperbole and just plain kidding. Do you really believe that I believe 'that nonsense'?

Good question. Are you an atheist? I havent seen you proclaiming yourself as one. but then I havent seen you making religious thread posts alot either.

 

[there4eyeM]

Is that you in the avie? Why do you spoz your god gave you banana boobs?

Who would kick her out of bed?

The same people who would be shameless enough to take her to bed withouto giving a damn about her.

Take her to bed? Sounds like force or coercion.

I meant that she approached of her own free will.

Or did God intend it?

 

[Godboy]

If sinning is bad, why did god create sins? Also, why would he create a snake to tempt Adam and Eve, and why did he make Adam and Eve subject to temptation in the first place, and then say its bad when they are tempted by the snake he specifically created to tempt them?

 

[there4eyeM]

If sinning is bad, why did god create sins? Also, why would he create a snake to tempt Adam and Eve, and why did he make Adam and Eve subject to temptation in the first place, and then say its bad when they are tempted by the snake he specifically created to tempt them?

Isn't it obvious? If there were no sin, what could God forgive?

 

[mudwhistle]

I have yet to read any theologian who can give a rational explanation for how anyone can die for the sins of people who won't even be born until centuries later.

Keep reading then.
Try scientists if your theologians can't figure it out. Because the answer is dimensions.
You have 4.
To watch a parade, you stand on the ground. You see the parade once it turns the corner and passes in front of you. When it turns another corner it is out of your sight.
Watch from a different vantage point, say a helicopter, and you see where the parade started, where it goes, and where the parade ends up.

You are limited by time, one of our 4 dimensions. God is not. You can't go forward or backward in time. You are bound. God is not.

Nope. That explanation can't work unless you assume absolute predetermination for all acts. Not possible if you also assume that humans have free will.

Isaiah 46:10
I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please. ... declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet ...

If you don't believe it, set Revelation and today's newspaper in front of you.

My point wasn't whether I, personally, believe it: my point was that there's no rational explanation of it. Those who do believe it have no choice but to take it on blind faith.

I was reading your signature. If you think that everyone in the world will be as honest and caring as Jesus Christ you're not only foolish but you're asking for it.

You have to assume that this world is full of dishonest people that will take advantage of you and you have to assume that anyone you put in power will become corrupted by their power. After all, the Devil is in charge of the Earth........for now.

 

[Wonky Pundit]

Here is what is so special about Jesus:

He died so you may live. When Christ was hanging on that cross, he traded places with you.
He paid for every sin you have and will commit.

I have yet to read any theologian who can give a rational explanation for how anyone can die for the sins of people who won't even be born until centuries later.

Why would Christ be unable to perform the Atonement for the sins of the world prior to someone being born when God already knows their lives?

The Atonement for our sins works because Christ, being holy and perfect, suffered the most gruesome death ever imagined to man. He suffered more than any other man could. He did this voluntarily out of love for all of us. Because of His suffering, the Lord cannot deny Him anything. Thus those who repent and have taken upon themselves of the name of Christ can be given forgiveness for mistakes because Christ asks for them. Those who, despite the offer, mock and crucify Christ afresh don't benefit from the offer beyond the resurrection from the dead. They must suffer the consequences of their actions when they could otherwise have not.

How can God know their future lives and how can they all have their own free will? It's a very direct (and not very complicated) contradiction of logic.

 

[Wonky Pundit]

Keep reading then.
Try scientists if your theologians can't figure it out. Because the answer is dimensions.
You have 4.
To watch a parade, you stand on the ground. You see the parade once it turns the corner and passes in front of you. When it turns another corner it is out of your sight.
Watch from a different vantage point, say a helicopter, and you see where the parade started, where it goes, and where the parade ends up.

You are limited by time, one of our 4 dimensions. God is not. You can't go forward or backward in time. You are bound. God is not.

Nope. That explanation can't work unless you assume absolute predetermination for all acts. Not possible if you also assume that humans have free will.

If you don't believe it, set Revelation and today's newspaper in front of you.

My point wasn't whether I, personally, believe it: my point was that there's no rational explanation of it. Those who do believe it have no choice but to take it on blind faith.

I was reading your signature. If you think that everyone in the world will be as honest and caring as Jesus Christ you're not only foolish but you're asking for it.

You have to assume that this world is full of dishonest people that will take advantage of you and you have to assume that anyone you put in power will become corrupted by their power. After all, the Devil is in charge of the Earth........for now.

I don't assume that; libertarians do. (I'd love for it to be true, but I do know better.)

 

[Vandalshandle]

Personally, I am anarchist. My goal is to unite all anarchists, and overthrow the power structure, so that we can take over and rule.

 

[S.J.]

Personally, I am anarchist. My goal is to unite all anarchists, and overthrow the power structure, so that we can take over and rule.

Take over and rule what, your neighbor's tree fort?

 

[Vandalshandle]

Personally, I am anarchist. My goal is to unite all anarchists, and overthrow the power structure, so that we can take over and rule.

Take over and rule what, your neighbor's tree fort?

Take over and rule everyone who is not an anarchist.