If God is all-knowing, all-powerful, and just, then why do ignorant kids suffer?

[Youwerecreated]

First of all, I noticed you avoided all the bullshit I exposed from your earlier post but chose instead to post a new load of bullshit. Why would you believe the same people who deliberately mislead you in your earlier post?

Again, it is just too much BS to waste my time going through each and every point, especially since you will just ignore what I post, so I will take one key point your house of cards is built on.

"Fact" # 3. When a virus mutates to gain a new host, that is an increase in information and a genetic improvement as far as the virus is concerned.

First off you are not the first to post some sort of weak attack on the bible that has been refuted many times. I am off on a morning ride on my mountain bike so I will get back to you on what you think contradicts science. I assure you rest easy my son there is an explanation there always is on attacks aGainst the bible. So are you gonna ignore all the other things that was posted ? Do you just sniper and don't. Have the ability to reason the bible contains a lot of information that being confirmed by modern day science you are in denial to say otherwise. I am use to your first response when I show someone on your side of the arguement something that,well,catches they surprise they lash out with insults. Look I don't know your background other than you are the typical person that shows hatred and a lack of respect for something that supposedly don't exist. I guess you understand where I'm going with this. I'll be talking to you soon i have to climb this mountain that is just ahead.

No you don't, if you have faith. But you don't so you will.

Mt 21:21* Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.

If you're speaking of that mountain earlier today it was hulred into the sea, i destroyed it.

not sure why you used the cuckoo smilie.

 

[Youwerecreated]

I see no reason to believe that the bible and the theory of evolution are mutually exclusive. Perhaps God created the first living cells and evolution took over from there, according to his purpose. Or, life appeared through some chain of events that is unknown to us at this point, and then evolution took over from there.

However life started, the theory of evolution is accepted by just about every scientist as the means through whuch human beings came to exist. That does not mean however that the evolutionary process was not by God's design, if you believe that God exists.

Wrong, because if they the so called real scientist come out with the truth about genetics their theory crumbles just as i showed earlier. That means much of the funding they recieve for research will go towards something else.

Let's face it ,many make a living from teaching this theory that is an impossibility.

A fellow evolutionist, Dr Lee Spetner totally blew away the possibility of mutations being the engine driving Neo Darwinism.

And no every theory of evolution contradicts God's word, they do not go hand and hand no way no how.

I to once thought it could be possible until i was educated to the point i could clearly see that there is no way that evolution could of happened. the theory was built on certain little adaptations where Darwin jumped to very erroneous conclusion's,and even he gave reasons not to believe in this theory if certain assumptions were supported by the evidence. One of the reasons was the lack of transitional fossils,don't believe me look at gould and eldredges theory of punctuated equilibrium.

No it never happened like evolutionist say, remember they have a vested interest.

 

[Youwerecreated]

I have an uncle that teaches high school biology. He teaches evolution to his students and remarks how wonderful the Lord was to set up a system of creation as complex as evolution.

I feel bad for people ignoring scripture and combining two different philosophies because they do not want to let go of either theory.

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear Edthecynic and Youwerecreated:
I am very interested in seeing these points reach a resolution,
whether literally or figuratively.

I see two arguments that could be discussed separately
1. literally if there is something conflicting or two different contexts
in which the "physical earth" is supposed to be moveable, removeable,
or fixed and not moved, stirred and shaken or whatever
Why is one context saying it is not to be moved
and the other is saying it shall be

2. figurately (and this isn't the point directly, but it reminds me)
there is the ongoing issue I see debated or blamed on Christians
whether the "world" or "earth" will literally be destroyed before
the Kingdom of God and Heaven is established,
OR it means the world will be transformed as peace on earth
as I believe (and found out even the Jehovah's Witness believe similar)

That is not the point here, I know, but does point to very critical differences.

I believe the Bible saying Heaven and Earth shall pass away but the
laws/word of God shall not
means the eternal truth is independent of heaven and earth.

So I come at it from that perspective but DON'T think it means to PROMOTE
any literal destruction of the physical earth and resources.
I believe it means the old ways of the world will totally end
and give birth to new life and the old ways made new etc.

Still I would like to understand what is meant by each context
and what it means for the earth/world NOT to be moved but to be fixed
and what it means for the world to pass away or be removed
or go through tribulations or whatever that symbolizes.

Even if there is a contradiction, what is the reason for it.
What is the meaning being depicted in both cases if they are referring
to different stages or contexts or what?

Thank you for this
Yours truly,
Emily

 

[Youwerecreated]

how can men of the bible write of things and be accurate according to modern day science when it was clear man did not know these things around 3,500 years ago ?

Here are a few.

101 Scientific Facts & Foreknowledge

15.
The First Law of Thermodynamics established (Genesis 2:1-2). The First Law states that the total quantity of energy and matter in the universe is a constant. One form of energy or matter may be converted into another, but the total quantity always remains the same. Therefore the creation is finished, exactly as God said way back in Genesis.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

16.
The first three verses of Genesis accurately express all known aspects of the creation (Genesis 1:1-3). Science expresses the universe in terms of: time, space, matter, and energy. In Genesis chapter one we read: “In the beginning (time) God created the heavens (space) and the earth (matter)…Then God said, “Let there be light (energy).” No other creation account agrees with the observable evidence.


18.
The earth is a sphere (Isaiah 40:22). At a time when many thought the earth was flat, the Bible told us that the earth is spherical.


19.
Scripture assumes a revolving (spherical) earth (Luke 17:34-36). Jesus said that at His return some would be asleep at night while others would be working at day time activities in the field. This is a clear indication of a revolving earth, with day and night occurring simultaneously.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


46.
The Second Law of Thermodynamics (Entropy) explained (Psalm 102:25-26). This law states that everything in the universe is running down, deteriorating, constantly becoming less and less orderly. Entropy (disorder) entered when mankind rebelled against God – resulting in the curse (Genesis 3:17; Romans 8:20-22). Historically most people believed the universe was unchangeable. Yet modern science verifies that the universe is “grow(ing) old like a garment” (Hebrews 1:11). Evolution directly contradicts this law.


58.
Light travels in a path (Job 38:19). Light is said to have a “way” [Hebrew: derek, literally a traveled path or road]. Until the 17th century it was believed that light was transmitted instantaneously. We now know that light is a form of energy that travels at ~186,000 miles per second in a straight line. Indeed, there is a “way” of light.

Eternal Productions - 101 Scientific Facts and Foreknowledge


So what is your alternative to creation and God ?

So much bullshit, so little time.
You should stick to the bible because you know less about science than you do the bible, .... and you know nothing about the bible.

You have combined misrepresenting the bible with misrepresenting science to CREATE the biggest pile of bullshit I have ever seen.

I picked some of the more obvious examples of both your lack of biblical knowledge and scientific knowledge.

15, Creation violates the FLoT! Energy cannot be created nor destroyed, that is why it is a constant. IOW, you can't get something from nothing and God is not a thing! Creation says no thing (God) created everything from nothing, a direct violation of the FLoT.

16. Energy preexists time. Time has a beginning not Energy.

18. Isaiah 40:22 does not say the Earth is a "sphere." It says the Earth is a "CIRCLE!" Take a coin out of your pocket and LOOK at. It is circular and FLAT!!!

19. The bible also says the Earth is fixed and unmoving and the Sun moves around it changing speed as it goes! Remenber, I posted earlier that the bible contradicts itself everywhere to test the brainwashed. This is yet another example.

Ps 93:1 The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is established, that it cannot be moved.

Ps 96:10 Say among the heathen that the LORD reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved

Ps 104:5 the LORD hath founded the earth upon its own bases; it shall not be removed forever and ever

1 Ch 16: 30 Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.

Contradicted by not only your quote but this also:

Isa 24:19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed

Ec 1:5 The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.

46. You have no idea what the SLoT says so how can you possibly know if your brainwashers are stating it accurately. I'll give you a hint, they aren't.

The real SLoT does not say EVERYTHING runs down. It says only systems whose entropy is greater than ZERO run down. To say EVERYTHING is running down means that entropy is always increasing, and if entropy is always increasing then entropy cannot equal zero. If entropy cannot equal zero then no matter can exist. But matter does exist, so entropy can equal zero and when entropy equals zero it is not increasing. The real SLoT is the equation: entropy ≥ 0, the equation you are using is: entropy > 0.

58. Light does NOT travel in a straight line, it is bent by gravity as Einstein proved with a repeatable experiment.

If experiments can prove creation all your attacks are meaningless.

Unlike man, who can create something out of pre-existing material. God created the heavens and earth and all that's in them, out of nothing. He started with nothing and spoke creation into existence.

Science Proves Creation












--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EVOLUTION WATCH

Research: God did speak world into existence

Student's scientific documentation offers evidence of biblical account

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: February 11, 2007
9:35 pm Eastern

© 2011 WND



















A science student in Kentucky says when the Bible records God spoke, and things were created, that's just what happened, and he can support that with scientific experiments.

"If God spoke everything into existence as the Genesis record proposes, then we should be able to scientifically prove that the construction of everything in the universe begins with a) the Holy Spirit (magnetic field); b) Light (an electric field); and c) that Light can be created by a sonic influence or sound," Samuel J. Hunt writes on his website.

(Story continues below)



"There are several documented and currently taught laboratory experiments that accurately portray the events in Genesis in sequential order, the most important being that of sonoluminescence," he wrote.

That, he described to WND, is the circumstance in which sending a sonic signal into bubbles in a fluid causes the bubbles to collapse and they release photons, or create light.

That aligns with one of the earlier descriptions of the creation by God, when, in Genesis 1:1-3, the Holy Spirit moved upon the face of the deep, which generally is considered water, and said "Let there be light," he explained.










God was sending a sonic influence into the waters, and basically creating light, Hunt said. He's documented his theory, and the experiments he believes back it up, in his "Episteme Scientia, the Law of All That Is."

Researchers at institutions no less than UCLA and the University of Chicago have verified the production of light from bubbles when sound is passed through a liquid, called sonoluminescence.

Hunt said he was spurred on in his work because the advanced physics and other courses he was taking were advancing propositions that sometimes didn't match up.

"The further I went, the more my questions seemed to be being answered in the Genesis record," he told WND.

His abstract states, "An examination of the sequential mathematical and experimental dual proof of the Genesis record of origins underlying the institution of all that is in the universe – from waves to matter to the mind."

Hunt said science has been proving the Genesis account in classrooms for centuries, "in spite of the fervency to promote evolution and big bang theories."

A student at Western Kentucky University in Bowling Green, Hunt said his questions started very simply.

"I asked my professors in physics and chemistry, 'What if I could scientifically prove that all matter was spoken into existence and that all matter could be manipulated by sound just as Genesis says? Wouldn't that mean God exists and created the universe?" he asked.

"Nobody's ever done that before," was the response.

His 84-page treatise, now published, addresses that, he said.

Hunt said he believes every event in Genesis can be observed to be happening daily.

"Either you experience a universe of chaos or a universe of order and processes that produce immediate and calculable results," he wrote. "The results of my research support and prove that everything that exists was spoken into existence from waves to matter to mind."

"My professors think my application of accepted laws and theories may bend the rules a bit, but the ideas are thought-provoking and progressive," he said.

The website describes the integration of several mathematical systems including "Phi, Pi, L-systems, Penrose tiling, and an all-encompassing Koch curve."

The outline, available at scienceprovescreation.com, already has sold more than 1,700 copies.

Hunt said his goal was to be able to provide experiments that would explain the Genesis creation story – in the order the Bible records events happened.

"Some of my teachers are like, 'That's complete hogwash,'" he said, "while others say, 'That's pretty interesting.'"

His goal is to bring a unity to the Christian community, "just like the founders of our nation expected and wanted from the Constitution."

The documentation of his processes, Hunt believes, could end debate.

"People want to know the truth, to have something to stand on that's not trickery and deceit," he said. "This gives people something real to touch, hang on to."


Research: God did speak world into existence

 

[edthecynic]

how can men of the bible write of things and be accurate according to modern day science when it was clear man did not know these things around 3,500 years ago ?

Here are a few.

101 Scientific Facts & Foreknowledge

15.
The First Law of Thermodynamics established (Genesis 2:1-2). The First Law states that the total quantity of energy and matter in the universe is a constant. One form of energy or matter may be converted into another, but the total quantity always remains the same. Therefore the creation is finished, exactly as God said way back in Genesis.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

16.
The first three verses of Genesis accurately express all known aspects of the creation (Genesis 1:1-3). Science expresses the universe in terms of: time, space, matter, and energy. In Genesis chapter one we read: “In the beginning (time) God created the heavens (space) and the earth (matter)…Then God said, “Let there be light (energy).” No other creation account agrees with the observable evidence.


18.
The earth is a sphere (Isaiah 40:22). At a time when many thought the earth was flat, the Bible told us that the earth is spherical.


19.
Scripture assumes a revolving (spherical) earth (Luke 17:34-36). Jesus said that at His return some would be asleep at night while others would be working at day time activities in the field. This is a clear indication of a revolving earth, with day and night occurring simultaneously.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


46.
The Second Law of Thermodynamics (Entropy) explained (Psalm 102:25-26). This law states that everything in the universe is running down, deteriorating, constantly becoming less and less orderly. Entropy (disorder) entered when mankind rebelled against God – resulting in the curse (Genesis 3:17; Romans 8:20-22). Historically most people believed the universe was unchangeable. Yet modern science verifies that the universe is “grow(ing) old like a garment” (Hebrews 1:11). Evolution directly contradicts this law.


58.
Light travels in a path (Job 38:19). Light is said to have a “way” [Hebrew: derek, literally a traveled path or road]. Until the 17th century it was believed that light was transmitted instantaneously. We now know that light is a form of energy that travels at ~186,000 miles per second in a straight line. Indeed, there is a “way” of light.

Eternal Productions - 101 Scientific Facts and Foreknowledge


So what is your alternative to creation and God ?

So much bullshit, so little time.
You should stick to the bible because you know less about science than you do the bible, .... and you know nothing about the bible.

You have combined misrepresenting the bible with misrepresenting science to CREATE the biggest pile of bullshit I have ever seen.

I picked some of the more obvious examples of both your lack of biblical knowledge and scientific knowledge.

15, Creation violates the FLoT! Energy cannot be created nor destroyed, that is why it is a constant. IOW, you can't get something from nothing and God is not a thing! Creation says no thing (God) created everything from nothing, a direct violation of the FLoT.

16. Energy preexists time. Time has a beginning not Energy.

18. Isaiah 40:22 does not say the Earth is a "sphere." It says the Earth is a "CIRCLE!" Take a coin out of your pocket and LOOK at. It is circular and FLAT!!!

19. The bible also says the Earth is fixed and unmoving and the Sun moves around it changing speed as it goes! Remenber, I posted earlier that the bible contradicts itself everywhere to test the brainwashed. This is yet another example.

Ps 93:1 The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is established, that it cannot be moved.

Ps 96:10 Say among the heathen that the LORD reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved

Ps 104:5 the LORD hath founded the earth upon its own bases; it shall not be removed forever and ever

1 Ch 16: 30 Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.

Contradicted by not only your quote but this also:

Isa 24:19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed

Ec 1:5 The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.

46. You have no idea what the SLoT says so how can you possibly know if your brainwashers are stating it accurately. I'll give you a hint, they aren't.

The real SLoT does not say EVERYTHING runs down. It says only systems whose entropy is greater than ZERO run down. To say EVERYTHING is running down means that entropy is always increasing, and if entropy is always increasing then entropy cannot equal zero. If entropy cannot equal zero then no matter can exist. But matter does exist, so entropy can equal zero and when entropy equals zero it is not increasing. The real SLoT is the equation: entropy ≥ 0, the equation you are using is: entropy > 0.

58. Light does NOT travel in a straight line, it is bent by gravity as Einstein proved with a repeatable experiment.

If experiments can prove creation all your attacks are meaningless.

Unlike man, who can create something out of pre-existing material. God created the heavens and earth and all that's in them, out of nothing. He started with nothing and spoke creation into existence.

Science Proves Creation
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EVOLUTION WATCH

Research: God did speak world into existence

Student's scientific documentation offers evidence of biblical account

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: February 11, 2007
9:35 pm Eastern

© 2011 WND

A science student in Kentucky says when the Bible records God spoke, and things were created, that's just what happened, and he can support that with scientific experiments.

"If God spoke everything into existence as the Genesis record proposes, then we should be able to scientifically prove that the construction of everything in the universe begins with a) the Holy Spirit (magnetic field); b) Light (an electric field); and c) that Light can be created by a sonic influence or sound," Samuel J. Hunt writes on his website.

(Story continues below)



"There are several documented and currently taught laboratory experiments that accurately portray the events in Genesis in sequential order, the most important being that of sonoluminescence," he wrote.

That, he described to WND, is the circumstance in which sending a sonic signal into bubbles in a fluid causes the bubbles to collapse and they release photons, or create light.

That aligns with one of the earlier descriptions of the creation by God, when, in Genesis 1:1-3, the Holy Spirit moved upon the face of the deep, which generally is considered water, and said "Let there be light," he explained.
God was sending a sonic influence into the waters, and basically creating light, Hunt said. He's documented his theory, and the experiments he believes back it up, in his "Episteme Scientia, the Law of All That Is."

Researchers at institutions no less than UCLA and the University of Chicago have verified the production of light from bubbles when sound is passed through a liquid, called sonoluminescence.

Hunt said he was spurred on in his work because the advanced physics and other courses he was taking were advancing propositions that sometimes didn't match up.

"The further I went, the more my questions seemed to be being answered in the Genesis record," he told WND.

His abstract states, "An examination of the sequential mathematical and experimental dual proof of the Genesis record of origins underlying the institution of all that is in the universe – from waves to matter to the mind."

Hunt said science has been proving the Genesis account in classrooms for centuries, "in spite of the fervency to promote evolution and big bang theories."

A student at Western Kentucky University in Bowling Green, Hunt said his questions started very simply.

"I asked my professors in physics and chemistry, 'What if I could scientifically prove that all matter was spoken into existence and that all matter could be manipulated by sound just as Genesis says? Wouldn't that mean God exists and created the universe?" he asked.

"Nobody's ever done that before," was the response.

His 84-page treatise, now published, addresses that, he said.

Hunt said he believes every event in Genesis can be observed to be happening daily.

"Either you experience a universe of chaos or a universe of order and processes that produce immediate and calculable results," he wrote. "The results of my research support and prove that everything that exists was spoken into existence from waves to matter to mind."

"My professors think my application of accepted laws and theories may bend the rules a bit, but the ideas are thought-provoking and progressive," he said.

The website describes the integration of several mathematical systems including "Phi, Pi, L-systems, Penrose tiling, and an all-encompassing Koch curve."

The outline, available at scienceprovescreation.com, already has sold more than 1,700 copies.

Hunt said his goal was to be able to provide experiments that would explain the Genesis creation story – in the order the Bible records events happened.

"Some of my teachers are like, 'That's complete hogwash,'" he said, "while others say, 'That's pretty interesting.'"

His goal is to bring a unity to the Christian community, "just like the founders of our nation expected and wanted from the Constitution."

The documentation of his processes, Hunt believes, could end debate.

"People want to know the truth, to have something to stand on that's not trickery and deceit," he said. "This gives people something real to touch, hang on to."


Research: God did speak world into existence

You can't be serious!

First of all, WingNutsDaily is hardly a credible scientific source, in fact, it is not any kind of credible source!

Bubbles, fluid, and water are hardly NOTHING!!!! Now when this experimenter sends sound into NOTHING and produces protons then you will have something, but don't hold your breath waiting!

 

[Youwerecreated]

how can men of the bible write of things and be accurate according to modern day science when it was clear man did not know these things around 3,500 years ago ?

Here are a few.

101 Scientific Facts & Foreknowledge

15.
The First Law of Thermodynamics established (Genesis 2:1-2). The First Law states that the total quantity of energy and matter in the universe is a constant. One form of energy or matter may be converted into another, but the total quantity always remains the same. Therefore the creation is finished, exactly as God said way back in Genesis.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

16.
The first three verses of Genesis accurately express all known aspects of the creation (Genesis 1:1-3). Science expresses the universe in terms of: time, space, matter, and energy. In Genesis chapter one we read: “In the beginning (time) God created the heavens (space) and the earth (matter)…Then God said, “Let there be light (energy).” No other creation account agrees with the observable evidence.


18.
The earth is a sphere (Isaiah 40:22). At a time when many thought the earth was flat, the Bible told us that the earth is spherical.


19.
Scripture assumes a revolving (spherical) earth (Luke 17:34-36). Jesus said that at His return some would be asleep at night while others would be working at day time activities in the field. This is a clear indication of a revolving earth, with day and night occurring simultaneously.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


46.
The Second Law of Thermodynamics (Entropy) explained (Psalm 102:25-26). This law states that everything in the universe is running down, deteriorating, constantly becoming less and less orderly. Entropy (disorder) entered when mankind rebelled against God – resulting in the curse (Genesis 3:17; Romans 8:20-22). Historically most people believed the universe was unchangeable. Yet modern science verifies that the universe is “grow(ing) old like a garment” (Hebrews 1:11). Evolution directly contradicts this law.


58.
Light travels in a path (Job 38:19). Light is said to have a “way” [Hebrew: derek, literally a traveled path or road]. Until the 17th century it was believed that light was transmitted instantaneously. We now know that light is a form of energy that travels at ~186,000 miles per second in a straight line. Indeed, there is a “way” of light.

Eternal Productions - 101 Scientific Facts and Foreknowledge


So what is your alternative to creation and God ?

So much bullshit, so little time.
You should stick to the bible because you know less about science than you do the bible, .... and you know nothing about the bible.

You have combined misrepresenting the bible with misrepresenting science to CREATE the biggest pile of bullshit I have ever seen.

I picked some of the more obvious examples of both your lack of biblical knowledge and scientific knowledge.

15, Creation violates the FLoT! Energy cannot be created nor destroyed, that is why it is a constant. IOW, you can't get something from nothing and God is not a thing! Creation says no thing (God) created everything from nothing, a direct violation of the FLoT.

16. Energy preexists time. Time has a beginning not Energy.

18. Isaiah 40:22 does not say the Earth is a "sphere." It says the Earth is a "CIRCLE!" Take a coin out of your pocket and LOOK at. It is circular and FLAT!!!

19. The bible also says the Earth is fixed and unmoving and the Sun moves around it changing speed as it goes! Remenber, I posted earlier that the bible contradicts itself everywhere to test the brainwashed. This is yet another example.

Ps 93:1 The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is established, that it cannot be moved.

Ps 96:10 Say among the heathen that the LORD reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved

Ps 104:5 the LORD hath founded the earth upon its own bases; it shall not be removed forever and ever

1 Ch 16: 30 Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.

Contradicted by not only your quote but this also:

Isa 24:19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed

Ec 1:5 The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.

46. You have no idea what the SLoT says so how can you possibly know if your brainwashers are stating it accurately. I'll give you a hint, they aren't.

The real SLoT does not say EVERYTHING runs down. It says only systems whose entropy is greater than ZERO run down. To say EVERYTHING is running down means that entropy is always increasing, and if entropy is always increasing then entropy cannot equal zero. If entropy cannot equal zero then no matter can exist. But matter does exist, so entropy can equal zero and when entropy equals zero it is not increasing. The real SLoT is the equation: entropy ≥ 0, the equation you are using is: entropy > 0.

58. Light does NOT travel in a straight line, it is bent by gravity as Einstein proved with a repeatable experiment.

16. You can't prove energy has always existed. If everything has a beginning where did matter come from ?

18. The term sphere did not exist in the Hebrew language at the time of the writing of the scriptures. Google pictures of the earth from space,when you look at those pictures does earth not look like a ball and round and can be described as a circle ? What is the definition of sphere ?

19.
Geocentricity: Does the Bible Really Say the Sun Revolves Around the Earth?

« on: Sep 24, 2010, 02:00:23 AM »



Some but not many intrepid Christian scholars believe that it does.

The case for the defense.

THE BASIC SCIENTIFIC ARGUMENTS FOR GEOCENTRICITY

This subject generates far more heat than light in Christian circles. Invariably the reaction is emotional because Christians do not want to be tainted with the labels of "scientific ignoramus" and such like. I here set out the basic arguments that are given more fully in my "True Science Agrees with the Bible" - Appendix 10.

(1) BIBLICAL SUPPORT. There are many references to the sun "going down", "arising" etc. NOT ONCE does the Bible ever refer to the earth rotating. Those who say that the Bible is only recording the "appearance" of the movement of the sun--

(a) are having to ADD to the most obvious meaning of the understanding of the Bible passage and

(b) are adopting the same position as liberal critics who have tried to destroy the Bible by saying that many of the sayings of Christ were "adapted to the simple understanding and low education of His hearers" and that we are more educated today to correct what he said - or such like. The Bible is true in its normal sensible understanding of its statements. We say sensible because we do not literally interpret what are clearly allegories and metaphors - this is usually used by critics to ridicule Bible believers.

(2) THE SEQUENCE OF CREATION. There is a major Biblical problem facing Christian heliocentrists. The sun is not referred to until Day 4. Most contend that it was created on Day 1 but only became visible on Day 4 so that they can have the earth going round the sun from the very first day of its creation. The problem is that the same word is used for the creation of the sun as for other material or animals in Genesis 1. "Bara" and "Asah" are both used for creation and there is no distinction between creation from nothing and creation from previous created material. Both words are used of Man's creation. To say that the sun had already been created before day 4 is to twist the scriptures beyond acceptability in this one specific case to save the heliocentric position - and Hebrew scholars agree. If this interpretation is used in this one instance, why is it not used for all the other verses in Genesis. It would make nonsense of the whole record of events.

So the Hebrew insists that the sun was created on Day 4. How then did the earth rotate around a non-existent sun for three days? And when the sun was created on Day 4, did God give the earth a jolt and send it on its circular route around the sun? Surely the most obvious explanation is that the earth was created FIRST of all the universe - as the Bible says - and the universe rotated around it - with all the planets created later on Day 4. How this could take place scientifically we examine below.

(3) SCIENTIFIC EXPERIMENTS. Most scientists know about the Michelson-Morely experiment - that failed to detect any movement of the earth round the sun. This had to be overcome so the Fitzgerald-Lorentz shortening of the apparatus was proposed, and eventually the paradoxical Relativity Theory was invented by Einstein to overcome this problem. However, there are three other experiments that have been deliberately ignored by universities because they support geocentricity -

(a) The Michelson-Gale experiment (Reference - Astrophysical Journal 1925 v 61 pp 140-5 - I forgot to put this reference in my book!) This detected the aether passing the surface of the earth with an accuracy of 2% of the speed of the daily rotation of the earth! Thus, the Michelson-Morely experiment detected no movement of the earth around the sun, yet the Michelson-Gale experiment measured the earth's rotation (or the aether's rotation around the earth!) to within 2%! This surely speaks volumes for geocentricity.

(b) "Airey's failure" (Reference - Proc. Roy. Soc. London v 20 p 35). Telescopes have to be very slightly tilted to get the starlight going down the axis of the tube because of the earth's "speed around the sun". Airey filled a telescope with water that greatly slowed down the speed of the light inside the telescope and found that he did not have to change the angle of the telescope. This showed that the starlight was already coming in at the correct angle so that no change was needed. This demonstrated that it was the stars moving relative to a stationary earth and not the fast orbiting earth moving relative to the comparatively stationary stars. If it was the telescope moving he would have had to change the angle.

(c) The Sagnac experiment (Reference - Comptes Rendus 1913 v157 p 708-710 and 1410-3) Sagnac rotated a table complete with light and mirrors with the light being passed in opposite directions around the table between the mirrors. He detected the movement of the table by the movement of the interference fringes on the target where they were recombined. This proved that there IS an aether that the light has to pass through and this completely destroys Einstein's theory of Relativity that says there is no aether. It is for this reason that this experiment is completely ignored by scientists. More recently Kantor has found the same result with similar apparatus.

All these experiments are never taught at universities, so consequently, scientists, including most Christian creationists, are ignorant of this evidence for geocentricity. Is it any wonder, therefore, that Christian geocentrists find their most vociferous opponents are fellow Christian creationists to whom geocentricity comes as a shock. They do not want to be tarred with such a heretical brush that will only increase the great ridicule they are already receiving for their stance against evolution?

THE ROTATION OF THE UNIVERSE
How can the universe rotate so rapidly without disintegrating? There is growing evidence that the aether has "Planck density" - it is extremely dense and the sun and planets are like corks in very dense water comparatively. This whole universe sweeps round the earth because otherwise it would collapse in on itself due to its density. The mechanics of this system forces the other planets etc. to describe ellipses in their orbit around the sun. Ernst Mach proposed that it is the weight of the stars circling the earth that drags Foucault pendulums around, creates Coriolis forces in the air that give the cyclones to our weather etc. Barbour and Bertotti (Il Nuovo Cimento 32B(1):1-27, 11 March 1977) proved that a hollow sphere (the universe) rotating around a solid sphere inside (the earth) produced exactly the same results of Coriolis forces, dragging of Foucault pendulums etc. that are put forward as "proofs" of heliocentricity! This paper gives several other confirmations of the superiority of the geocentric model.

Thus, there is evidence that the earth is NOT moving around the sun, but either the aether is moving around the earth carrying the planets with it, or the earth is spinning on its axis. The most likely model is that the aether is rotating around the earth as calculations show that if it did not, it would rapidly collapse upon itself.

Malcolm Bowden.
25.9.99




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Ephesians 3:20 [Amplified]
Now to Him Who, by the action of His power that is at work within us, is able to carry out His purpose and do superabundantly, far over and above all that we dare ask or think, infinitely beyond our highest prayers, desires, thoughts, hopes, or dreams.

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My soul, wait thou only upon God; for my expectation is from him.
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Re: Geocentricity: Does the Bible Really Say the Sun Revolves Around the Earth?

« Reply #1 on: Sep 24, 2010, 02:03:00 AM »



The case for the prosecution.

Does the Bible Teach Geocentricity?

by Bert Thompson, Ph.D. and Trevor Major, M.Sc., M.A.

The medieval Catholic Church maintained that the Bible taught geocentricity (i.e., that the Sun and planets revolve around the Earth) as opposed to what we now know as the Copernican idea of heliocentricity (i.e., that the planets all revolve around the Sun). This situation began when Claudius Ptolemy of Alexandria restated the ancient Ptolemaic geocentric theory in the second century after Christ, and was able to predict the motion of the celestial bodies with far greater accuracy than the existing theory of heliocentricity. Somewhere along the line, scientific dogma became enshrined in theological dogma, and passages in the Bible were found to consecrate Ptolemy’s theory. According to the theologians, man was the focus of God’s creative act, and therefore the Earth must be the center of God’s creation. After all, if we were dwelling on one average planet, rotating around one average star, in one average galaxy in an infinite Universe, how could we be the sole focus of God’s attention, and why should His only Son be sent just to this middling planet, as the Bible suggests?

Needless to say, this revolution of thought provided great fuel for the atheists, skeptics and agnostics. According to Paul Steidl:

The truths of God’s word and the work of Jesus Christ in no way depend on our position.... If anything, our lack of a unique position in the natural universe is only an illustration of the natural man’s lack of a unique position before God (1979, p. 6).

In other words, the presence of our material selves in the material Universe is not as important to God as our immortal souls. On the other hand, it is difficult to doubt that God has placed our planet in just the right place, and set it in motion in just the right way, to benefit the survival of humanity.

Copernicus submitted his ideas in the early sixteenth century, stating that geocentricity was incorrect after all. Some of Copernicus’ ideas could not be defended scientifically, but science generally had little to do with the attacks on this theory. Calvin, for instance, criticized Copernicus by appealing to passages in Joshua and Psalms that supposedly show the fixity of the Earth relative to the Sun. Galileo came along a hundred years later and firmed up the Copernican theories with better mathematics and with more accurate and numerous measurements. Unlike Copernicus, Galileo was persistent, arrogant, and prepared to stand up to the wrath of the Inquisition. Galileo’s assertion that the Bible should be interpreted in light of man’s knowledge of the natural world, and that Scripture should not have authority in scientific controversies, did little to endear him to church leaders. Thus, rather than being the case of “science versus the Bible,” it was “dogmatic scientist versus religious dogmatism.” This, of course, is not all the story; the remainder would be covered in a good history book.

One of the passages used to defend the biblical basis of geocentricity was Joshua 10:12-14, and later references to the same event, in which Joshua prayed, “Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; And thou, Moon, in the valley of Aijalon” (v. 12), that he might defeat the numerous armies assembled against his people. God immediately answered Joshua’s prayer, and in the following verse he wrote: “And the Sun stood still, and the Moon stayed.” Keil and Delitzsch have suggested that either the day appeared long to the warriors of Israel because of the greatness of the task they performed (i.e., defeating the enemy), or that God miraculously caused the day to be lengthened so the Lord’s army could perform its task. The former is consistent with similar language in other parts of the Old Testament, and the latter explanation is totally consistent with God’s infinite power over the Universe (1982, 2:106-112). In any case, as Joshua goes on to say in verse 14, “there was no day like that before it or after it.” Thus, whether miraculous or not, to say that these verses teach that the Earth continues to stand still, and that the Earth is the center of the Universe, is both a gross misinterpretation and a misapplication of the verse. This passage does not teach geocentricity, despite Calvin’s claims to the contrary.

In addition to Joshua 10, Calvin used Psalm 93:1 in defense of geocentricity. The verse simply suggests that the Earth is stable, and cannot be moved, but is it trying to say that the Earth is totally motionless in every sense? As the passage is primarily concerned with God’s majesty and power, it is more likely that the psalmist is saying, “Who but God could move the Earth?” Besides, the Earth is set in an unchanging orbit around the Sun, all the while rotating at a steady speed on a fixed axis.

Psalm 19:6 is a passage that often is cited as another example of Scripture teaching pre-Copernican astronomy. In this verse, the Sun is said to move, rather than the Earth, and therefore is said by some to imply that the Sun revolves around the Earth. There are many other verses in the Bible that talk about the Sun “going down” or “rising up.” This hardly should be surprising, however, since events in the Bible often are written in accommodative or “phenomenal” language—i.e., the language used to express phenomena as man sees them. Even today we teach our children that “the Sun rises in the east and sets in the west,” and astronomers and navigators use the Earth as a fixed point for purposes of simple observation, expressing distances and directions in relation to it. The weatherman on the evening news often will state that the Sun is going to “rise” at a certain time the following morning and “set” at a certain time the following evening. Why does no one accuse him of scientific error? Because we all are perfectly aware of, and understand, the Copernican view of the solar system, and because we likewise understand that our weatherman is using “phenomenal” language.

In addition, scientific foreknowledge could be claimed from Psalm 19:6 if a more literal interpretation was applied in the following way. Astronomers now know that the Sun moves in a gigantic orbit around the center of the Milky Way galaxy; traveling at 600,000 miles an hour it would take the Sun 230 million years to make just one orbit! It also is believed that our galaxy is moving with respect to other galaxies in the Universe. The Sun’s going forth is indeed from one end of the heavens to the other. In any case, there is no way to substantiate the claims that the Bible teaches geocentricity, or that it promotes any other anti-scientific concept.

Geocentricity: Does the Bible Really Say the Sun Revolves Around the Earth?

 

[Youwerecreated]

So much bullshit, so little time.
You should stick to the bible because you know less about science than you do the bible, .... and you know nothing about the bible.

You have combined misrepresenting the bible with misrepresenting science to CREATE the biggest pile of bullshit I have ever seen.

I picked some of the more obvious examples of both your lack of biblical knowledge and scientific knowledge.

15, Creation violates the FLoT! Energy cannot be created nor destroyed, that is why it is a constant. IOW, you can't get something from nothing and God is not a thing! Creation says no thing (God) created everything from nothing, a direct violation of the FLoT.

16. Energy preexists time. Time has a beginning not Energy.

18. Isaiah 40:22 does not say the Earth is a "sphere." It says the Earth is a "CIRCLE!" Take a coin out of your pocket and LOOK at. It is circular and FLAT!!!

19. The bible also says the Earth is fixed and unmoving and the Sun moves around it changing speed as it goes! Remenber, I posted earlier that the bible contradicts itself everywhere to test the brainwashed. This is yet another example.

Ps 93:1 The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is established, that it cannot be moved.

Ps 96:10 Say among the heathen that the LORD reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved

Ps 104:5 the LORD hath founded the earth upon its own bases; it shall not be removed forever and ever

1 Ch 16: 30 Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.

Contradicted by not only your quote but this also:

Isa 24:19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed

Ec 1:5 The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.

46. You have no idea what the SLoT says so how can you possibly know if your brainwashers are stating it accurately. I'll give you a hint, they aren't.

The real SLoT does not say EVERYTHING runs down. It says only systems whose entropy is greater than ZERO run down. To say EVERYTHING is running down means that entropy is always increasing, and if entropy is always increasing then entropy cannot equal zero. If entropy cannot equal zero then no matter can exist. But matter does exist, so entropy can equal zero and when entropy equals zero it is not increasing. The real SLoT is the equation: entropy ≥ 0, the equation you are using is: entropy > 0.

58. Light does NOT travel in a straight line, it is bent by gravity as Einstein proved with a repeatable experiment.

If experiments can prove creation all your attacks are meaningless.

Unlike man, who can create something out of pre-existing material. God created the heavens and earth and all that's in them, out of nothing. He started with nothing and spoke creation into existence.

Science Proves Creation
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EVOLUTION WATCH

Research: God did speak world into existence

Student's scientific documentation offers evidence of biblical account

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: February 11, 2007
9:35 pm Eastern

© 2011 WND

A science student in Kentucky says when the Bible records God spoke, and things were created, that's just what happened, and he can support that with scientific experiments.

"If God spoke everything into existence as the Genesis record proposes, then we should be able to scientifically prove that the construction of everything in the universe begins with a) the Holy Spirit (magnetic field); b) Light (an electric field); and c) that Light can be created by a sonic influence or sound," Samuel J. Hunt writes on his website.

(Story continues below)



"There are several documented and currently taught laboratory experiments that accurately portray the events in Genesis in sequential order, the most important being that of sonoluminescence," he wrote.

That, he described to WND, is the circumstance in which sending a sonic signal into bubbles in a fluid causes the bubbles to collapse and they release photons, or create light.

That aligns with one of the earlier descriptions of the creation by God, when, in Genesis 1:1-3, the Holy Spirit moved upon the face of the deep, which generally is considered water, and said "Let there be light," he explained.
God was sending a sonic influence into the waters, and basically creating light, Hunt said. He's documented his theory, and the experiments he believes back it up, in his "Episteme Scientia, the Law of All That Is."

Researchers at institutions no less than UCLA and the University of Chicago have verified the production of light from bubbles when sound is passed through a liquid, called sonoluminescence.

Hunt said he was spurred on in his work because the advanced physics and other courses he was taking were advancing propositions that sometimes didn't match up.

"The further I went, the more my questions seemed to be being answered in the Genesis record," he told WND.

His abstract states, "An examination of the sequential mathematical and experimental dual proof of the Genesis record of origins underlying the institution of all that is in the universe – from waves to matter to the mind."

Hunt said science has been proving the Genesis account in classrooms for centuries, "in spite of the fervency to promote evolution and big bang theories."

A student at Western Kentucky University in Bowling Green, Hunt said his questions started very simply.

"I asked my professors in physics and chemistry, 'What if I could scientifically prove that all matter was spoken into existence and that all matter could be manipulated by sound just as Genesis says? Wouldn't that mean God exists and created the universe?" he asked.

"Nobody's ever done that before," was the response.

His 84-page treatise, now published, addresses that, he said.

Hunt said he believes every event in Genesis can be observed to be happening daily.

"Either you experience a universe of chaos or a universe of order and processes that produce immediate and calculable results," he wrote. "The results of my research support and prove that everything that exists was spoken into existence from waves to matter to mind."

"My professors think my application of accepted laws and theories may bend the rules a bit, but the ideas are thought-provoking and progressive," he said.

The website describes the integration of several mathematical systems including "Phi, Pi, L-systems, Penrose tiling, and an all-encompassing Koch curve."

The outline, available at scienceprovescreation.com, already has sold more than 1,700 copies.

Hunt said his goal was to be able to provide experiments that would explain the Genesis creation story – in the order the Bible records events happened.

"Some of my teachers are like, 'That's complete hogwash,'" he said, "while others say, 'That's pretty interesting.'"

His goal is to bring a unity to the Christian community, "just like the founders of our nation expected and wanted from the Constitution."

The documentation of his processes, Hunt believes, could end debate.

"People want to know the truth, to have something to stand on that's not trickery and deceit," he said. "This gives people something real to touch, hang on to."


Research: God did speak world into existence

You can't be serious!

First of all, WingNutsDaily is hardly a credible scientific source, in fact, it is not any kind of credible source!

Bubbles, fluid, and water are hardly NOTHING!!!! Now when this experimenter sends sound into NOTHING and produces protons then you will have something, but don't hold your breath waiting!

So how do you prove matter always existed ?

How did non-living matter become living matter ?

 

[Youwerecreated]

So much bullshit, so little time.
You should stick to the bible because you know less about science than you do the bible, .... and you know nothing about the bible.

You have combined misrepresenting the bible with misrepresenting science to CREATE the biggest pile of bullshit I have ever seen.

I picked some of the more obvious examples of both your lack of biblical knowledge and scientific knowledge.

15, Creation violates the FLoT! Energy cannot be created nor destroyed, that is why it is a constant. IOW, you can't get something from nothing and God is not a thing! Creation says no thing (God) created everything from nothing, a direct violation of the FLoT.

16. Energy preexists time. Time has a beginning not Energy.

18. Isaiah 40:22 does not say the Earth is a "sphere." It says the Earth is a "CIRCLE!" Take a coin out of your pocket and LOOK at. It is circular and FLAT!!!

19. The bible also says the Earth is fixed and unmoving and the Sun moves around it changing speed as it goes! Remenber, I posted earlier that the bible contradicts itself everywhere to test the brainwashed. This is yet another example.

Ps 93:1 The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is established, that it cannot be moved.

Ps 96:10 Say among the heathen that the LORD reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved

Ps 104:5 the LORD hath founded the earth upon its own bases; it shall not be removed forever and ever

1 Ch 16: 30 Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.

Contradicted by not only your quote but this also:

Isa 24:19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed

Ec 1:5 The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.

46. You have no idea what the SLoT says so how can you possibly know if your brainwashers are stating it accurately. I'll give you a hint, they aren't.

The real SLoT does not say EVERYTHING runs down. It says only systems whose entropy is greater than ZERO run down. To say EVERYTHING is running down means that entropy is always increasing, and if entropy is always increasing then entropy cannot equal zero. If entropy cannot equal zero then no matter can exist. But matter does exist, so entropy can equal zero and when entropy equals zero it is not increasing. The real SLoT is the equation: entropy ≥ 0, the equation you are using is: entropy > 0.

58. Light does NOT travel in a straight line, it is bent by gravity as Einstein proved with a repeatable experiment.

If experiments can prove creation all your attacks are meaningless.

Unlike man, who can create something out of pre-existing material. God created the heavens and earth and all that's in them, out of nothing. He started with nothing and spoke creation into existence.

Science Proves Creation
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EVOLUTION WATCH

Research: God did speak world into existence

Student's scientific documentation offers evidence of biblical account

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: February 11, 2007
9:35 pm Eastern

© 2011 WND

A science student in Kentucky says when the Bible records God spoke, and things were created, that's just what happened, and he can support that with scientific experiments.

"If God spoke everything into existence as the Genesis record proposes, then we should be able to scientifically prove that the construction of everything in the universe begins with a) the Holy Spirit (magnetic field); b) Light (an electric field); and c) that Light can be created by a sonic influence or sound," Samuel J. Hunt writes on his website.

(Story continues below)



"There are several documented and currently taught laboratory experiments that accurately portray the events in Genesis in sequential order, the most important being that of sonoluminescence," he wrote.

That, he described to WND, is the circumstance in which sending a sonic signal into bubbles in a fluid causes the bubbles to collapse and they release photons, or create light.

That aligns with one of the earlier descriptions of the creation by God, when, in Genesis 1:1-3, the Holy Spirit moved upon the face of the deep, which generally is considered water, and said "Let there be light," he explained.
God was sending a sonic influence into the waters, and basically creating light, Hunt said. He's documented his theory, and the experiments he believes back it up, in his "Episteme Scientia, the Law of All That Is."

Researchers at institutions no less than UCLA and the University of Chicago have verified the production of light from bubbles when sound is passed through a liquid, called sonoluminescence.

Hunt said he was spurred on in his work because the advanced physics and other courses he was taking were advancing propositions that sometimes didn't match up.

"The further I went, the more my questions seemed to be being answered in the Genesis record," he told WND.

His abstract states, "An examination of the sequential mathematical and experimental dual proof of the Genesis record of origins underlying the institution of all that is in the universe – from waves to matter to the mind."

Hunt said science has been proving the Genesis account in classrooms for centuries, "in spite of the fervency to promote evolution and big bang theories."

A student at Western Kentucky University in Bowling Green, Hunt said his questions started very simply.

"I asked my professors in physics and chemistry, 'What if I could scientifically prove that all matter was spoken into existence and that all matter could be manipulated by sound just as Genesis says? Wouldn't that mean God exists and created the universe?" he asked.

"Nobody's ever done that before," was the response.

His 84-page treatise, now published, addresses that, he said.

Hunt said he believes every event in Genesis can be observed to be happening daily.

"Either you experience a universe of chaos or a universe of order and processes that produce immediate and calculable results," he wrote. "The results of my research support and prove that everything that exists was spoken into existence from waves to matter to mind."

"My professors think my application of accepted laws and theories may bend the rules a bit, but the ideas are thought-provoking and progressive," he said.

The website describes the integration of several mathematical systems including "Phi, Pi, L-systems, Penrose tiling, and an all-encompassing Koch curve."

The outline, available at scienceprovescreation.com, already has sold more than 1,700 copies.

Hunt said his goal was to be able to provide experiments that would explain the Genesis creation story – in the order the Bible records events happened.

"Some of my teachers are like, 'That's complete hogwash,'" he said, "while others say, 'That's pretty interesting.'"

His goal is to bring a unity to the Christian community, "just like the founders of our nation expected and wanted from the Constitution."

The documentation of his processes, Hunt believes, could end debate.

"People want to know the truth, to have something to stand on that's not trickery and deceit," he said. "This gives people something real to touch, hang on to."


Research: God did speak world into existence

You can't be serious!

First of all, WingNutsDaily is hardly a credible scientific source, in fact, it is not any kind of credible source!

Bubbles, fluid, and water are hardly NOTHING!!!! Now when this experimenter sends sound into NOTHING and produces protons then you will have something, but don't hold your breath waiting!

Look, i am very serious in my beliefs.

But i will say since science and man does not have all the answers, we have to be able to change with evidence. There are no contradictions between the bible and science.

 

[edthecynic]

how can men of the bible write of things and be accurate according to modern day science when it was clear man did not know these things around 3,500 years ago ?

Here are a few.

101 Scientific Facts & Foreknowledge

15.
The First Law of Thermodynamics established (Genesis 2:1-2). The First Law states that the total quantity of energy and matter in the universe is a constant. One form of energy or matter may be converted into another, but the total quantity always remains the same. Therefore the creation is finished, exactly as God said way back in Genesis.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

16.
The first three verses of Genesis accurately express all known aspects of the creation (Genesis 1:1-3). Science expresses the universe in terms of: time, space, matter, and energy. In Genesis chapter one we read: “In the beginning (time) God created the heavens (space) and the earth (matter)…Then God said, “Let there be light (energy).” No other creation account agrees with the observable evidence.


18.
The earth is a sphere (Isaiah 40:22). At a time when many thought the earth was flat, the Bible told us that the earth is spherical.


19.
Scripture assumes a revolving (spherical) earth (Luke 17:34-36). Jesus said that at His return some would be asleep at night while others would be working at day time activities in the field. This is a clear indication of a revolving earth, with day and night occurring simultaneously.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


46.
The Second Law of Thermodynamics (Entropy) explained (Psalm 102:25-26). This law states that everything in the universe is running down, deteriorating, constantly becoming less and less orderly. Entropy (disorder) entered when mankind rebelled against God – resulting in the curse (Genesis 3:17; Romans 8:20-22). Historically most people believed the universe was unchangeable. Yet modern science verifies that the universe is “grow(ing) old like a garment” (Hebrews 1:11). Evolution directly contradicts this law.


58.
Light travels in a path (Job 38:19). Light is said to have a “way” [Hebrew: derek, literally a traveled path or road]. Until the 17th century it was believed that light was transmitted instantaneously. We now know that light is a form of energy that travels at ~186,000 miles per second in a straight line. Indeed, there is a “way” of light.

Eternal Productions - 101 Scientific Facts and Foreknowledge


So what is your alternative to creation and God ?

So much bullshit, so little time.
You should stick to the bible because you know less about science than you do the bible, .... and you know nothing about the bible.

You have combined misrepresenting the bible with misrepresenting science to CREATE the biggest pile of bullshit I have ever seen.

I picked some of the more obvious examples of both your lack of biblical knowledge and scientific knowledge.

15, Creation violates the FLoT! Energy cannot be created nor destroyed, that is why it is a constant. IOW, you can't get something from nothing and God is not a thing! Creation says no thing (God) created everything from nothing, a direct violation of the FLoT.

16. Energy preexists time. Time has a beginning not Energy.

18. Isaiah 40:22 does not say the Earth is a "sphere." It says the Earth is a "CIRCLE!" Take a coin out of your pocket and LOOK at. It is circular and FLAT!!!

19. The bible also says the Earth is fixed and unmoving and the Sun moves around it changing speed as it goes! Remenber, I posted earlier that the bible contradicts itself everywhere to test the brainwashed. This is yet another example.

Ps 93:1 The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is established, that it cannot be moved.

Ps 96:10 Say among the heathen that the LORD reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved

Ps 104:5 the LORD hath founded the earth upon its own bases; it shall not be removed forever and ever

1 Ch 16: 30 Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.

Contradicted by not only your quote but this also:

Isa 24:19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed

Ec 1:5 The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.

46. You have no idea what the SLoT says so how can you possibly know if your brainwashers are stating it accurately. I'll give you a hint, they aren't.

The real SLoT does not say EVERYTHING runs down. It says only systems whose entropy is greater than ZERO run down. To say EVERYTHING is running down means that entropy is always increasing, and if entropy is always increasing then entropy cannot equal zero. If entropy cannot equal zero then no matter can exist. But matter does exist, so entropy can equal zero and when entropy equals zero it is not increasing. The real SLoT is the equation: entropy ≥ 0, the equation you are using is: entropy > 0.

58. Light does NOT travel in a straight line, it is bent by gravity as Einstein proved with a repeatable experiment.

16. You can't prove energy has always existed. If everything has a beginning where did matter come from ?http://www.thechristianidentityforu...really-say-the-sun-revolves-around-the-earth/

The First Law of Thermodynamics, Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, was proven with a repeatable experiment by James Prescott Joule, so it can be proven that energy has always existed and will always exist in the exact same total quantity. And matter is a form of energy.

 

[Youwerecreated]

So much bullshit, so little time.
You should stick to the bible because you know less about science than you do the bible, .... and you know nothing about the bible.

You have combined misrepresenting the bible with misrepresenting science to CREATE the biggest pile of bullshit I have ever seen.

I picked some of the more obvious examples of both your lack of biblical knowledge and scientific knowledge.

15, Creation violates the FLoT! Energy cannot be created nor destroyed, that is why it is a constant. IOW, you can't get something from nothing and God is not a thing! Creation says no thing (God) created everything from nothing, a direct violation of the FLoT.

16. Energy preexists time. Time has a beginning not Energy.

18. Isaiah 40:22 does not say the Earth is a "sphere." It says the Earth is a "CIRCLE!" Take a coin out of your pocket and LOOK at. It is circular and FLAT!!!

19. The bible also says the Earth is fixed and unmoving and the Sun moves around it changing speed as it goes! Remenber, I posted earlier that the bible contradicts itself everywhere to test the brainwashed. This is yet another example.

Ps 93:1 The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is established, that it cannot be moved.

Ps 96:10 Say among the heathen that the LORD reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved

Ps 104:5 the LORD hath founded the earth upon its own bases; it shall not be removed forever and ever

1 Ch 16: 30 Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.

Contradicted by not only your quote but this also:

Isa 24:19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed

Ec 1:5 The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.

46. You have no idea what the SLoT says so how can you possibly know if your brainwashers are stating it accurately. I'll give you a hint, they aren't.

The real SLoT does not say EVERYTHING runs down. It says only systems whose entropy is greater than ZERO run down. To say EVERYTHING is running down means that entropy is always increasing, and if entropy is always increasing then entropy cannot equal zero. If entropy cannot equal zero then no matter can exist. But matter does exist, so entropy can equal zero and when entropy equals zero it is not increasing. The real SLoT is the equation: entropy ≥ 0, the equation you are using is: entropy > 0.

58. Light does NOT travel in a straight line, it is bent by gravity as Einstein proved with a repeatable experiment.

If experiments can prove creation all your attacks are meaningless.

Unlike man, who can create something out of pre-existing material. God created the heavens and earth and all that's in them, out of nothing. He started with nothing and spoke creation into existence.

Science Proves Creation
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EVOLUTION WATCH

Research: God did speak world into existence

Student's scientific documentation offers evidence of biblical account

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: February 11, 2007
9:35 pm Eastern

© 2011 WND

A science student in Kentucky says when the Bible records God spoke, and things were created, that's just what happened, and he can support that with scientific experiments.

"If God spoke everything into existence as the Genesis record proposes, then we should be able to scientifically prove that the construction of everything in the universe begins with a) the Holy Spirit (magnetic field); b) Light (an electric field); and c) that Light can be created by a sonic influence or sound," Samuel J. Hunt writes on his website.

(Story continues below)



"There are several documented and currently taught laboratory experiments that accurately portray the events in Genesis in sequential order, the most important being that of sonoluminescence," he wrote.

That, he described to WND, is the circumstance in which sending a sonic signal into bubbles in a fluid causes the bubbles to collapse and they release photons, or create light.

That aligns with one of the earlier descriptions of the creation by God, when, in Genesis 1:1-3, the Holy Spirit moved upon the face of the deep, which generally is considered water, and said "Let there be light," he explained.
God was sending a sonic influence into the waters, and basically creating light, Hunt said. He's documented his theory, and the experiments he believes back it up, in his "Episteme Scientia, the Law of All That Is."

Researchers at institutions no less than UCLA and the University of Chicago have verified the production of light from bubbles when sound is passed through a liquid, called sonoluminescence.

Hunt said he was spurred on in his work because the advanced physics and other courses he was taking were advancing propositions that sometimes didn't match up.

"The further I went, the more my questions seemed to be being answered in the Genesis record," he told WND.

His abstract states, "An examination of the sequential mathematical and experimental dual proof of the Genesis record of origins underlying the institution of all that is in the universe – from waves to matter to the mind."

Hunt said science has been proving the Genesis account in classrooms for centuries, "in spite of the fervency to promote evolution and big bang theories."

A student at Western Kentucky University in Bowling Green, Hunt said his questions started very simply.

"I asked my professors in physics and chemistry, 'What if I could scientifically prove that all matter was spoken into existence and that all matter could be manipulated by sound just as Genesis says? Wouldn't that mean God exists and created the universe?" he asked.

"Nobody's ever done that before," was the response.

His 84-page treatise, now published, addresses that, he said.

Hunt said he believes every event in Genesis can be observed to be happening daily.

"Either you experience a universe of chaos or a universe of order and processes that produce immediate and calculable results," he wrote. "The results of my research support and prove that everything that exists was spoken into existence from waves to matter to mind."

"My professors think my application of accepted laws and theories may bend the rules a bit, but the ideas are thought-provoking and progressive," he said.

The website describes the integration of several mathematical systems including "Phi, Pi, L-systems, Penrose tiling, and an all-encompassing Koch curve."

The outline, available at scienceprovescreation.com, already has sold more than 1,700 copies.

Hunt said his goal was to be able to provide experiments that would explain the Genesis creation story – in the order the Bible records events happened.

"Some of my teachers are like, 'That's complete hogwash,'" he said, "while others say, 'That's pretty interesting.'"

His goal is to bring a unity to the Christian community, "just like the founders of our nation expected and wanted from the Constitution."

The documentation of his processes, Hunt believes, could end debate.

"People want to know the truth, to have something to stand on that's not trickery and deceit," he said. "This gives people something real to touch, hang on to."


Research: God did speak world into existence

You can't be serious!

First of all, WingNutsDaily is hardly a credible scientific source, in fact, it is not any kind of credible source!

Bubbles, fluid, and water are hardly NOTHING!!!! Now when this experimenter sends sound into NOTHING and produces protons then you will have something, but don't hold your breath waiting!

One other thing, i see how your side takes scriptures out of context to show contradictions while not considering not everything in the bible is literal. With more reading you can get the true meaning of what's written and there are no contradictions at all.

 

[Youwerecreated]

First of all, I noticed you avoided all the bullshit I exposed from your earlier post but chose instead to post a new load of bullshit. Why would you believe the same people who deliberately mislead you in your earlier post?

Again, it is just too much BS to waste my time going through each and every point, especially since you will just ignore what I post, so I will take one key point your house of cards is built on.

"Fact" # 3. When a virus mutates to gain a new host, that is an increase in information and a genetic improvement as far as the virus is concerned.

First off you are not the first to post some sort of weak attack on the bible that has been refuted many times. I am off on a morning ride on my mountain bike so I will get back to you on what you think contradicts science. I assure you rest easy my son there is an explanation there always is on attacks aGainst the bible. So are you gonna ignore all the other things that was posted ? Do you just sniper and don't. Have the ability to reason the bible contains a lot of information that being confirmed by modern day science you are in denial to say otherwise. I am use to your first response when I show someone on your side of the arguement something that,well,catches they surprise they lash out with insults. Look I don't know your background other than you are the typical person that shows hatred and a lack of respect for something that supposedly don't exist. I guess you understand where I'm going with this. I'll be talking to you soon i have to climb this mountain that is just ahead.

No you don't, if you have faith. But you don't so you will.

Mt 21:21* Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.

Do you know what i really find funny ? people on your side attack and say pretty much the same thing.

So can you tell me why you believe sources from my side are not credible ?

 

[edthecynic]

how can men of the bible write of things and be accurate according to modern day science when it was clear man did not know these things around 3,500 years ago ?

Here are a few.

101 Scientific Facts & Foreknowledge

15.
The First Law of Thermodynamics established (Genesis 2:1-2). The First Law states that the total quantity of energy and matter in the universe is a constant. One form of energy or matter may be converted into another, but the total quantity always remains the same. Therefore the creation is finished, exactly as God said way back in Genesis.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

16.
The first three verses of Genesis accurately express all known aspects of the creation (Genesis 1:1-3). Science expresses the universe in terms of: time, space, matter, and energy. In Genesis chapter one we read: “In the beginning (time) God created the heavens (space) and the earth (matter)…Then God said, “Let there be light (energy).” No other creation account agrees with the observable evidence.


18.
The earth is a sphere (Isaiah 40:22). At a time when many thought the earth was flat, the Bible told us that the earth is spherical.


19.
Scripture assumes a revolving (spherical) earth (Luke 17:34-36). Jesus said that at His return some would be asleep at night while others would be working at day time activities in the field. This is a clear indication of a revolving earth, with day and night occurring simultaneously.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


46.
The Second Law of Thermodynamics (Entropy) explained (Psalm 102:25-26). This law states that everything in the universe is running down, deteriorating, constantly becoming less and less orderly. Entropy (disorder) entered when mankind rebelled against God – resulting in the curse (Genesis 3:17; Romans 8:20-22). Historically most people believed the universe was unchangeable. Yet modern science verifies that the universe is “grow(ing) old like a garment” (Hebrews 1:11). Evolution directly contradicts this law.


58.
Light travels in a path (Job 38:19). Light is said to have a “way” [Hebrew: derek, literally a traveled path or road]. Until the 17th century it was believed that light was transmitted instantaneously. We now know that light is a form of energy that travels at ~186,000 miles per second in a straight line. Indeed, there is a “way” of light.

Eternal Productions - 101 Scientific Facts and Foreknowledge


So what is your alternative to creation and God ?

So much bullshit, so little time.
You should stick to the bible because you know less about science than you do the bible, .... and you know nothing about the bible.

You have combined misrepresenting the bible with misrepresenting science to CREATE the biggest pile of bullshit I have ever seen.

I picked some of the more obvious examples of both your lack of biblical knowledge and scientific knowledge.

15, Creation violates the FLoT! Energy cannot be created nor destroyed, that is why it is a constant. IOW, you can't get something from nothing and God is not a thing! Creation says no thing (God) created everything from nothing, a direct violation of the FLoT.

16. Energy preexists time. Time has a beginning not Energy.

18. Isaiah 40:22 does not say the Earth is a "sphere." It says the Earth is a "CIRCLE!" Take a coin out of your pocket and LOOK at. It is circular and FLAT!!!

19. The bible also says the Earth is fixed and unmoving and the Sun moves around it changing speed as it goes! Remenber, I posted earlier that the bible contradicts itself everywhere to test the brainwashed. This is yet another example.

Ps 93:1 The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is established, that it cannot be moved.

Ps 96:10 Say among the heathen that the LORD reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved

Ps 104:5 the LORD hath founded the earth upon its own bases; it shall not be removed forever and ever

1 Ch 16: 30 Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.

Contradicted by not only your quote but this also:

Isa 24:19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed

Ec 1:5 The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.

19.
Geocentricity: Does the Bible Really Say the Sun Revolves Around the Earth?

« on: Sep 24, 2010, 02:00:23 AM »



Some but not many intrepid Christian scholars believe that it does.

The case for the defense.

THE BASIC SCIENTIFIC ARGUMENTS FOR GEOCENTRICITY

This subject generates far more heat than light in Christian circles. Invariably the reaction is emotional because Christians do not want to be tainted with the labels of "scientific ignoramus" and such like. I here set out the basic arguments that are given more fully in my "True Science Agrees with the Bible" - Appendix 10.

(1) BIBLICAL SUPPORT. There are many references to the sun "going down", "arising" etc. NOT ONCE does the Bible ever refer to the earth rotating. Those who say that the Bible is only recording the "appearance" of the movement of the sun--

(a) are having to ADD to the most obvious meaning of the understanding of the Bible passage and

(b) are adopting the same position as liberal critics who have tried to destroy the Bible by saying that many of the sayings of Christ were "adapted to the simple understanding and low education of His hearers" and that we are more educated today to correct what he said - or such like. The Bible is true in its normal sensible understanding of its statements. We say sensible because we do not literally interpret what are clearly allegories and metaphors - this is usually used by critics to ridicule Bible believers.

(2) THE SEQUENCE OF CREATION. There is a major Biblical problem facing Christian heliocentrists. The sun is not referred to until Day 4. Most contend that it was created on Day 1 but only became visible on Day 4 so that they can have the earth going round the sun from the very first day of its creation. The problem is that the same word is used for the creation of the sun as for other material or animals in Genesis 1. "Bara" and "Asah" are both used for creation and there is no distinction between creation from nothing and creation from previous created material. Both words are used of Man's creation. To say that the sun had already been created before day 4 is to twist the scriptures beyond acceptability in this one specific case to save the heliocentric position - and Hebrew scholars agree. If this interpretation is used in this one instance, why is it not used for all the other verses in Genesis. It would make nonsense of the whole record of events.

So the Hebrew insists that the sun was created on Day 4. How then did the earth rotate around a non-existent sun for three days? And when the sun was created on Day 4, did God give the earth a jolt and send it on its circular route around the sun? Surely the most obvious explanation is that the earth was created FIRST of all the universe - as the Bible says - and the universe rotated around it - with all the planets created later on Day 4. How this could take place scientifically we examine below.

(3) SCIENTIFIC EXPERIMENTS. Most scientists know about the Michelson-Morely experiment - that failed to detect any movement of the earth round the sun. This had to be overcome so the Fitzgerald-Lorentz shortening of the apparatus was proposed, and eventually the paradoxical Relativity Theory was invented by Einstein to overcome this problem. However, there are three other experiments that have been deliberately ignored by universities because they support geocentricity -

(a) The Michelson-Gale experiment (Reference - Astrophysical Journal 1925 v 61 pp 140-5 - I forgot to put this reference in my book!) This detected the aether passing the surface of the earth with an accuracy of 2% of the speed of the daily rotation of the earth! Thus, the Michelson-Morely experiment detected no movement of the earth around the sun, yet the Michelson-Gale experiment measured the earth's rotation (or the aether's rotation around the earth!) to within 2%! This surely speaks volumes for geocentricity.

(b) "Airey's failure" (Reference - Proc. Roy. Soc. London v 20 p 35). Telescopes have to be very slightly tilted to get the starlight going down the axis of the tube because of the earth's "speed around the sun". Airey filled a telescope with water that greatly slowed down the speed of the light inside the telescope and found that he did not have to change the angle of the telescope. This showed that the starlight was already coming in at the correct angle so that no change was needed. This demonstrated that it was the stars moving relative to a stationary earth and not the fast orbiting earth moving relative to the comparatively stationary stars. If it was the telescope moving he would have had to change the angle.

(c) The Sagnac experiment (Reference - Comptes Rendus 1913 v157 p 708-710 and 1410-3) Sagnac rotated a table complete with light and mirrors with the light being passed in opposite directions around the table between the mirrors. He detected the movement of the table by the movement of the interference fringes on the target where they were recombined. This proved that there IS an aether that the light has to pass through and this completely destroys Einstein's theory of Relativity that says there is no aether. It is for this reason that this experiment is completely ignored by scientists. More recently Kantor has found the same result with similar apparatus.

All these experiments are never taught at universities, so consequently, scientists, including most Christian creationists, are ignorant of this evidence for geocentricity. Is it any wonder, therefore, that Christian geocentrists find their most vociferous opponents are fellow Christian creationists to whom geocentricity comes as a shock. They do not want to be tarred with such a heretical brush that will only increase the great ridicule they are already receiving for their stance against evolution?

THE ROTATION OF THE UNIVERSE
How can the universe rotate so rapidly without disintegrating? There is growing evidence that the aether has "Planck density" - it is extremely dense and the sun and planets are like corks in very dense water comparatively. This whole universe sweeps round the earth because otherwise it would collapse in on itself due to its density. The mechanics of this system forces the other planets etc. to describe ellipses in their orbit around the sun. Ernst Mach proposed that it is the weight of the stars circling the earth that drags Foucault pendulums around, creates Coriolis forces in the air that give the cyclones to our weather etc. Barbour and Bertotti (Il Nuovo Cimento 32B(1):1-27, 11 March 1977) proved that a hollow sphere (the universe) rotating around a solid sphere inside (the earth) produced exactly the same results of Coriolis forces, dragging of Foucault pendulums etc. that are put forward as "proofs" of heliocentricity! This paper gives several other confirmations of the superiority of the geocentric model.

Thus, there is evidence that the earth is NOT moving around the sun, but either the aether is moving around the earth carrying the planets with it, or the earth is spinning on its axis. The most likely model is that the aether is rotating around the earth as calculations show that if it did not, it would rapidly collapse upon itself.

Malcolm Bowden.
25.9.99




Logged

Ephesians 3:20 [Amplified]
Now to Him Who, by the action of His power that is at work within us, is able to carry out His purpose and do superabundantly, far over and above all that we dare ask or think, infinitely beyond our highest prayers, desires, thoughts, hopes, or dreams.

The Christian Identity Blog

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Obadiah 1:18
My soul, wait thou only upon God; for my expectation is from him.
Administrator


Posts: 1117









Re: Geocentricity: Does the Bible Really Say the Sun Revolves Around the Earth?

« Reply #1 on: Sep 24, 2010, 02:03:00 AM »



The case for the prosecution.

Does the Bible Teach Geocentricity?

by Bert Thompson, Ph.D. and Trevor Major, M.Sc., M.A.

The medieval Catholic Church maintained that the Bible taught geocentricity (i.e., that the Sun and planets revolve around the Earth) as opposed to what we now know as the Copernican idea of heliocentricity (i.e., that the planets all revolve around the Sun). This situation began when Claudius Ptolemy of Alexandria restated the ancient Ptolemaic geocentric theory in the second century after Christ, and was able to predict the motion of the celestial bodies with far greater accuracy than the existing theory of heliocentricity. Somewhere along the line, scientific dogma became enshrined in theological dogma, and passages in the Bible were found to consecrate Ptolemy’s theory. According to the theologians, man was the focus of God’s creative act, and therefore the Earth must be the center of God’s creation. After all, if we were dwelling on one average planet, rotating around one average star, in one average galaxy in an infinite Universe, how could we be the sole focus of God’s attention, and why should His only Son be sent just to this middling planet, as the Bible suggests?

Needless to say, this revolution of thought provided great fuel for the atheists, skeptics and agnostics. According to Paul Steidl:

The truths of God’s word and the work of Jesus Christ in no way depend on our position.... If anything, our lack of a unique position in the natural universe is only an illustration of the natural man’s lack of a unique position before God (1979, p. 6).

In other words, the presence of our material selves in the material Universe is not as important to God as our immortal souls. On the other hand, it is difficult to doubt that God has placed our planet in just the right place, and set it in motion in just the right way, to benefit the survival of humanity.

Copernicus submitted his ideas in the early sixteenth century, stating that geocentricity was incorrect after all. Some of Copernicus’ ideas could not be defended scientifically, but science generally had little to do with the attacks on this theory. Calvin, for instance, criticized Copernicus by appealing to passages in Joshua and Psalms that supposedly show the fixity of the Earth relative to the Sun. Galileo came along a hundred years later and firmed up the Copernican theories with better mathematics and with more accurate and numerous measurements. Unlike Copernicus, Galileo was persistent, arrogant, and prepared to stand up to the wrath of the Inquisition. Galileo’s assertion that the Bible should be interpreted in light of man’s knowledge of the natural world, and that Scripture should not have authority in scientific controversies, did little to endear him to church leaders. Thus, rather than being the case of “science versus the Bible,” it was “dogmatic scientist versus religious dogmatism.” This, of course, is not all the story; the remainder would be covered in a good history book.

One of the passages used to defend the biblical basis of geocentricity was Joshua 10:12-14, and later references to the same event, in which Joshua prayed, “Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; And thou, Moon, in the valley of Aijalon” (v. 12), that he might defeat the numerous armies assembled against his people. God immediately answered Joshua’s prayer, and in the following verse he wrote: “And the Sun stood still, and the Moon stayed.” Keil and Delitzsch have suggested that either the day appeared long to the warriors of Israel because of the greatness of the task they performed (i.e., defeating the enemy), or that God miraculously caused the day to be lengthened so the Lord’s army could perform its task. The former is consistent with similar language in other parts of the Old Testament, and the latter explanation is totally consistent with God’s infinite power over the Universe (1982, 2:106-112). In any case, as Joshua goes on to say in verse 14, “there was no day like that before it or after it.” Thus, whether miraculous or not, to say that these verses teach that the Earth continues to stand still, and that the Earth is the center of the Universe, is both a gross misinterpretation and a misapplication of the verse. This passage does not teach geocentricity, despite Calvin’s claims to the contrary.

In addition to Joshua 10, Calvin used Psalm 93:1 in defense of geocentricity. The verse simply suggests that the Earth is stable, and cannot be moved, but is it trying to say that the Earth is totally motionless in every sense? As the passage is primarily concerned with God’s majesty and power, it is more likely that the psalmist is saying, “Who but God could move the Earth?” Besides, the Earth is set in an unchanging orbit around the Sun, all the while rotating at a steady speed on a fixed axis.

Psalm 19:6 is a passage that often is cited as another example of Scripture teaching pre-Copernican astronomy. In this verse, the Sun is said to move, rather than the Earth, and therefore is said by some to imply that the Sun revolves around the Earth. There are many other verses in the Bible that talk about the Sun “going down” or “rising up.” This hardly should be surprising, however, since events in the Bible often are written in accommodative or “phenomenal” language—i.e., the language used to express phenomena as man sees them. Even today we teach our children that “the Sun rises in the east and sets in the west,” and astronomers and navigators use the Earth as a fixed point for purposes of simple observation, expressing distances and directions in relation to it. The weatherman on the evening news often will state that the Sun is going to “rise” at a certain time the following morning and “set” at a certain time the following evening. Why does no one accuse him of scientific error? Because we all are perfectly aware of, and understand, the Copernican view of the solar system, and because we likewise understand that our weatherman is using “phenomenal” language.

In addition, scientific foreknowledge could be claimed from Psalm 19:6 if a more literal interpretation was applied in the following way. Astronomers now know that the Sun moves in a gigantic orbit around the center of the Milky Way galaxy; traveling at 600,000 miles an hour it would take the Sun 230 million years to make just one orbit! It also is believed that our galaxy is moving with respect to other galaxies in the Universe. The Sun’s going forth is indeed from one end of the heavens to the other. In any case, there is no way to substantiate the claims that the Bible teaches geocentricity, or that it promotes any other anti-scientific concept.

Geocentricity: Does the Bible Really Say the Sun Revolves Around the Earth?

Wow, you are just copying and pasting crap you know nothing about.

Michelson-Morely had nothing to do with trying to detect the motion of the Earth around the sun. It was a test to see the effect of the theorized aether on the speed of light. Light was split to be measured with or against the movement of the Earth and perpendicular to the Earth at the same time. What it ended up proving was the consistency of the speed of light, not that the Earth does not move around the sun or whatever you are trying to claim.

And as the highlighted bible quote shows, not only does the sun revolve around the Earth, it speeds up at night! So even if you want to say it actually means the Earth spins on its axis, then the Earth spins faster between sunset and sunrise.

Here is another version of the same verse:

The New Living Translation
Ecclesiastes 1:5 The sun rises and sets and hurries around to rise again.

 

[edthecynic]

If experiments can prove creation all your attacks are meaningless.

Unlike man, who can create something out of pre-existing material. God created the heavens and earth and all that's in them, out of nothing. He started with nothing and spoke creation into existence.

Science Proves Creation
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EVOLUTION WATCH

Research: God did speak world into existence

Student's scientific documentation offers evidence of biblical account

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: February 11, 2007
9:35 pm Eastern

© 2011 WND

A science student in Kentucky says when the Bible records God spoke, and things were created, that's just what happened, and he can support that with scientific experiments.

"If God spoke everything into existence as the Genesis record proposes, then we should be able to scientifically prove that the construction of everything in the universe begins with a) the Holy Spirit (magnetic field); b) Light (an electric field); and c) that Light can be created by a sonic influence or sound," Samuel J. Hunt writes on his website.

(Story continues below)



"There are several documented and currently taught laboratory experiments that accurately portray the events in Genesis in sequential order, the most important being that of sonoluminescence," he wrote.

That, he described to WND, is the circumstance in which sending a sonic signal into bubbles in a fluid causes the bubbles to collapse and they release photons, or create light.

That aligns with one of the earlier descriptions of the creation by God, when, in Genesis 1:1-3, the Holy Spirit moved upon the face of the deep, which generally is considered water, and said "Let there be light," he explained.
God was sending a sonic influence into the waters, and basically creating light, Hunt said. He's documented his theory, and the experiments he believes back it up, in his "Episteme Scientia, the Law of All That Is."

Researchers at institutions no less than UCLA and the University of Chicago have verified the production of light from bubbles when sound is passed through a liquid, called sonoluminescence.

Hunt said he was spurred on in his work because the advanced physics and other courses he was taking were advancing propositions that sometimes didn't match up.

"The further I went, the more my questions seemed to be being answered in the Genesis record," he told WND.

His abstract states, "An examination of the sequential mathematical and experimental dual proof of the Genesis record of origins underlying the institution of all that is in the universe – from waves to matter to the mind."

Hunt said science has been proving the Genesis account in classrooms for centuries, "in spite of the fervency to promote evolution and big bang theories."

A student at Western Kentucky University in Bowling Green, Hunt said his questions started very simply.

"I asked my professors in physics and chemistry, 'What if I could scientifically prove that all matter was spoken into existence and that all matter could be manipulated by sound just as Genesis says? Wouldn't that mean God exists and created the universe?" he asked.

"Nobody's ever done that before," was the response.

His 84-page treatise, now published, addresses that, he said.

Hunt said he believes every event in Genesis can be observed to be happening daily.

"Either you experience a universe of chaos or a universe of order and processes that produce immediate and calculable results," he wrote. "The results of my research support and prove that everything that exists was spoken into existence from waves to matter to mind."

"My professors think my application of accepted laws and theories may bend the rules a bit, but the ideas are thought-provoking and progressive," he said.

The website describes the integration of several mathematical systems including "Phi, Pi, L-systems, Penrose tiling, and an all-encompassing Koch curve."

The outline, available at scienceprovescreation.com, already has sold more than 1,700 copies.

Hunt said his goal was to be able to provide experiments that would explain the Genesis creation story – in the order the Bible records events happened.

"Some of my teachers are like, 'That's complete hogwash,'" he said, "while others say, 'That's pretty interesting.'"

His goal is to bring a unity to the Christian community, "just like the founders of our nation expected and wanted from the Constitution."

The documentation of his processes, Hunt believes, could end debate.

"People want to know the truth, to have something to stand on that's not trickery and deceit," he said. "This gives people something real to touch, hang on to."


Research: God did speak world into existence

You can't be serious!

First of all, WingNutsDaily is hardly a credible scientific source, in fact, it is not any kind of credible source!

Bubbles, fluid, and water are hardly NOTHING!!!! Now when this experimenter sends sound into NOTHING and produces protons then you will have something, but don't hold your breath waiting!

One other thing, i see how your side takes scriptures out of context to show contradictions while not considering not everything in the bible is literal. With more reading you can get the true meaning of what's written and there are no contradictions at all.

So then it can be argued that God did not literally create the universe, man or anything else. And it can be argued that Jesus did not literally die for our sins or literally rise from the grave. Who is to say what can be taken literally and what can't?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I have an uncle that teaches high school biology. He teaches evolution to his students and remarks how wonderful the Lord was to set up a system of creation as complex as evolution.

You believe in evolution? Show me then how life was formed out of nothing. And then show me the evidence that lizards evolved into birds and birds evolved into mamals etc...

 

[Youwerecreated]

So much bullshit, so little time.
You should stick to the bible because you know less about science than you do the bible, .... and you know nothing about the bible.

You have combined misrepresenting the bible with misrepresenting science to CREATE the biggest pile of bullshit I have ever seen.

I picked some of the more obvious examples of both your lack of biblical knowledge and scientific knowledge.

15, Creation violates the FLoT! Energy cannot be created nor destroyed, that is why it is a constant. IOW, you can't get something from nothing and God is not a thing! Creation says no thing (God) created everything from nothing, a direct violation of the FLoT.

16. Energy preexists time. Time has a beginning not Energy.

18. Isaiah 40:22 does not say the Earth is a "sphere." It says the Earth is a "CIRCLE!" Take a coin out of your pocket and LOOK at. It is circular and FLAT!!!

19. The bible also says the Earth is fixed and unmoving and the Sun moves around it changing speed as it goes! Remenber, I posted earlier that the bible contradicts itself everywhere to test the brainwashed. This is yet another example.

Ps 93:1 The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is established, that it cannot be moved.

Ps 96:10 Say among the heathen that the LORD reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved

Ps 104:5 the LORD hath founded the earth upon its own bases; it shall not be removed forever and ever

1 Ch 16: 30 Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.

Contradicted by not only your quote but this also:

Isa 24:19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed

Ec 1:5 The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.

46. You have no idea what the SLoT says so how can you possibly know if your brainwashers are stating it accurately. I'll give you a hint, they aren't.

The real SLoT does not say EVERYTHING runs down. It says only systems whose entropy is greater than ZERO run down. To say EVERYTHING is running down means that entropy is always increasing, and if entropy is always increasing then entropy cannot equal zero. If entropy cannot equal zero then no matter can exist. But matter does exist, so entropy can equal zero and when entropy equals zero it is not increasing. The real SLoT is the equation: entropy ≥ 0, the equation you are using is: entropy > 0.

58. Light does NOT travel in a straight line, it is bent by gravity as Einstein proved with a repeatable experiment.

16. You can't prove energy has always existed. If everything has a beginning where did matter come from ?http://www.thechristianidentityforu...really-say-the-sun-revolves-around-the-earth/

The First Law of Thermodynamics, Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, was proven with a repeatable experiment by James Prescott Joule, so it can be proven that energy has always existed and will always exist in the exact same total quantity. And matter is a form of energy.

What is the purpose of energy ?

I will have to agree with you ,God has always existed,talk about energy .

 

[Youwerecreated]

So much bullshit, so little time.
You should stick to the bible because you know less about science than you do the bible, .... and you know nothing about the bible.

You have combined misrepresenting the bible with misrepresenting science to CREATE the biggest pile of bullshit I have ever seen.

I picked some of the more obvious examples of both your lack of biblical knowledge and scientific knowledge.

15, Creation violates the FLoT! Energy cannot be created nor destroyed, that is why it is a constant. IOW, you can't get something from nothing and God is not a thing! Creation says no thing (God) created everything from nothing, a direct violation of the FLoT.

16. Energy preexists time. Time has a beginning not Energy.

18. Isaiah 40:22 does not say the Earth is a "sphere." It says the Earth is a "CIRCLE!" Take a coin out of your pocket and LOOK at. It is circular and FLAT!!!

19. The bible also says the Earth is fixed and unmoving and the Sun moves around it changing speed as it goes! Remenber, I posted earlier that the bible contradicts itself everywhere to test the brainwashed. This is yet another example.

Ps 93:1 The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is established, that it cannot be moved.

Ps 96:10 Say among the heathen that the LORD reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved

Ps 104:5 the LORD hath founded the earth upon its own bases; it shall not be removed forever and ever

1 Ch 16: 30 Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.

Contradicted by not only your quote but this also:

Isa 24:19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed

Ec 1:5 The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.

46. You have no idea what the SLoT says so how can you possibly know if your brainwashers are stating it accurately. I'll give you a hint, they aren't.

The real SLoT does not say EVERYTHING runs down. It says only systems whose entropy is greater than ZERO run down. To say EVERYTHING is running down means that entropy is always increasing, and if entropy is always increasing then entropy cannot equal zero. If entropy cannot equal zero then no matter can exist. But matter does exist, so entropy can equal zero and when entropy equals zero it is not increasing. The real SLoT is the equation: entropy ≥ 0, the equation you are using is: entropy > 0.

58. Light does NOT travel in a straight line, it is bent by gravity as Einstein proved with a repeatable experiment.

16. You can't prove energy has always existed. If everything has a beginning where did matter come from ?http://www.thechristianidentityforu...really-say-the-sun-revolves-around-the-earth/

The First Law of Thermodynamics, Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, was proven with a repeatable experiment by James Prescott Joule, so it can be proven that energy has always existed and will always exist in the exact same total quantity. And matter is a form of energy.

Can the sun be destroyed ?

 

[Youwerecreated]

So much bullshit, so little time.
You should stick to the bible because you know less about science than you do the bible, .... and you know nothing about the bible.

You have combined misrepresenting the bible with misrepresenting science to CREATE the biggest pile of bullshit I have ever seen.

I picked some of the more obvious examples of both your lack of biblical knowledge and scientific knowledge.

15, Creation violates the FLoT! Energy cannot be created nor destroyed, that is why it is a constant. IOW, you can't get something from nothing and God is not a thing! Creation says no thing (God) created everything from nothing, a direct violation of the FLoT.

16. Energy preexists time. Time has a beginning not Energy.

18. Isaiah 40:22 does not say the Earth is a "sphere." It says the Earth is a "CIRCLE!" Take a coin out of your pocket and LOOK at. It is circular and FLAT!!!

19. The bible also says the Earth is fixed and unmoving and the Sun moves around it changing speed as it goes! Remenber, I posted earlier that the bible contradicts itself everywhere to test the brainwashed. This is yet another example.

Ps 93:1 The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is established, that it cannot be moved.

Ps 96:10 Say among the heathen that the LORD reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved

Ps 104:5 the LORD hath founded the earth upon its own bases; it shall not be removed forever and ever

1 Ch 16: 30 Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.

Contradicted by not only your quote but this also:

Isa 24:19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed

Ec 1:5 The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.

19.
Geocentricity: Does the Bible Really Say the Sun Revolves Around the Earth?

« on: Sep 24, 2010, 02:00:23 AM »



Some but not many intrepid Christian scholars believe that it does.

The case for the defense.

THE BASIC SCIENTIFIC ARGUMENTS FOR GEOCENTRICITY

This subject generates far more heat than light in Christian circles. Invariably the reaction is emotional because Christians do not want to be tainted with the labels of "scientific ignoramus" and such like. I here set out the basic arguments that are given more fully in my "True Science Agrees with the Bible" - Appendix 10.

(1) BIBLICAL SUPPORT. There are many references to the sun "going down", "arising" etc. NOT ONCE does the Bible ever refer to the earth rotating. Those who say that the Bible is only recording the "appearance" of the movement of the sun--

(a) are having to ADD to the most obvious meaning of the understanding of the Bible passage and

(b) are adopting the same position as liberal critics who have tried to destroy the Bible by saying that many of the sayings of Christ were "adapted to the simple understanding and low education of His hearers" and that we are more educated today to correct what he said - or such like. The Bible is true in its normal sensible understanding of its statements. We say sensible because we do not literally interpret what are clearly allegories and metaphors - this is usually used by critics to ridicule Bible believers.

(2) THE SEQUENCE OF CREATION. There is a major Biblical problem facing Christian heliocentrists. The sun is not referred to until Day 4. Most contend that it was created on Day 1 but only became visible on Day 4 so that they can have the earth going round the sun from the very first day of its creation. The problem is that the same word is used for the creation of the sun as for other material or animals in Genesis 1. "Bara" and "Asah" are both used for creation and there is no distinction between creation from nothing and creation from previous created material. Both words are used of Man's creation. To say that the sun had already been created before day 4 is to twist the scriptures beyond acceptability in this one specific case to save the heliocentric position - and Hebrew scholars agree. If this interpretation is used in this one instance, why is it not used for all the other verses in Genesis. It would make nonsense of the whole record of events.

So the Hebrew insists that the sun was created on Day 4. How then did the earth rotate around a non-existent sun for three days? And when the sun was created on Day 4, did God give the earth a jolt and send it on its circular route around the sun? Surely the most obvious explanation is that the earth was created FIRST of all the universe - as the Bible says - and the universe rotated around it - with all the planets created later on Day 4. How this could take place scientifically we examine below.

(3) SCIENTIFIC EXPERIMENTS. Most scientists know about the Michelson-Morely experiment - that failed to detect any movement of the earth round the sun. This had to be overcome so the Fitzgerald-Lorentz shortening of the apparatus was proposed, and eventually the paradoxical Relativity Theory was invented by Einstein to overcome this problem. However, there are three other experiments that have been deliberately ignored by universities because they support geocentricity -

(a) The Michelson-Gale experiment (Reference - Astrophysical Journal 1925 v 61 pp 140-5 - I forgot to put this reference in my book!) This detected the aether passing the surface of the earth with an accuracy of 2% of the speed of the daily rotation of the earth! Thus, the Michelson-Morely experiment detected no movement of the earth around the sun, yet the Michelson-Gale experiment measured the earth's rotation (or the aether's rotation around the earth!) to within 2%! This surely speaks volumes for geocentricity.

(b) "Airey's failure" (Reference - Proc. Roy. Soc. London v 20 p 35). Telescopes have to be very slightly tilted to get the starlight going down the axis of the tube because of the earth's "speed around the sun". Airey filled a telescope with water that greatly slowed down the speed of the light inside the telescope and found that he did not have to change the angle of the telescope. This showed that the starlight was already coming in at the correct angle so that no change was needed. This demonstrated that it was the stars moving relative to a stationary earth and not the fast orbiting earth moving relative to the comparatively stationary stars. If it was the telescope moving he would have had to change the angle.

(c) The Sagnac experiment (Reference - Comptes Rendus 1913 v157 p 708-710 and 1410-3) Sagnac rotated a table complete with light and mirrors with the light being passed in opposite directions around the table between the mirrors. He detected the movement of the table by the movement of the interference fringes on the target where they were recombined. This proved that there IS an aether that the light has to pass through and this completely destroys Einstein's theory of Relativity that says there is no aether. It is for this reason that this experiment is completely ignored by scientists. More recently Kantor has found the same result with similar apparatus.

All these experiments are never taught at universities, so consequently, scientists, including most Christian creationists, are ignorant of this evidence for geocentricity. Is it any wonder, therefore, that Christian geocentrists find their most vociferous opponents are fellow Christian creationists to whom geocentricity comes as a shock. They do not want to be tarred with such a heretical brush that will only increase the great ridicule they are already receiving for their stance against evolution?

THE ROTATION OF THE UNIVERSE
How can the universe rotate so rapidly without disintegrating? There is growing evidence that the aether has "Planck density" - it is extremely dense and the sun and planets are like corks in very dense water comparatively. This whole universe sweeps round the earth because otherwise it would collapse in on itself due to its density. The mechanics of this system forces the other planets etc. to describe ellipses in their orbit around the sun. Ernst Mach proposed that it is the weight of the stars circling the earth that drags Foucault pendulums around, creates Coriolis forces in the air that give the cyclones to our weather etc. Barbour and Bertotti (Il Nuovo Cimento 32B(1):1-27, 11 March 1977) proved that a hollow sphere (the universe) rotating around a solid sphere inside (the earth) produced exactly the same results of Coriolis forces, dragging of Foucault pendulums etc. that are put forward as "proofs" of heliocentricity! This paper gives several other confirmations of the superiority of the geocentric model.

Thus, there is evidence that the earth is NOT moving around the sun, but either the aether is moving around the earth carrying the planets with it, or the earth is spinning on its axis. The most likely model is that the aether is rotating around the earth as calculations show that if it did not, it would rapidly collapse upon itself.

Malcolm Bowden.
25.9.99




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Ephesians 3:20 [Amplified]
Now to Him Who, by the action of His power that is at work within us, is able to carry out His purpose and do superabundantly, far over and above all that we dare ask or think, infinitely beyond our highest prayers, desires, thoughts, hopes, or dreams.

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Re: Geocentricity: Does the Bible Really Say the Sun Revolves Around the Earth?

« Reply #1 on: Sep 24, 2010, 02:03:00 AM »



The case for the prosecution.

Does the Bible Teach Geocentricity?

by Bert Thompson, Ph.D. and Trevor Major, M.Sc., M.A.

The medieval Catholic Church maintained that the Bible taught geocentricity (i.e., that the Sun and planets revolve around the Earth) as opposed to what we now know as the Copernican idea of heliocentricity (i.e., that the planets all revolve around the Sun). This situation began when Claudius Ptolemy of Alexandria restated the ancient Ptolemaic geocentric theory in the second century after Christ, and was able to predict the motion of the celestial bodies with far greater accuracy than the existing theory of heliocentricity. Somewhere along the line, scientific dogma became enshrined in theological dogma, and passages in the Bible were found to consecrate Ptolemy’s theory. According to the theologians, man was the focus of God’s creative act, and therefore the Earth must be the center of God’s creation. After all, if we were dwelling on one average planet, rotating around one average star, in one average galaxy in an infinite Universe, how could we be the sole focus of God’s attention, and why should His only Son be sent just to this middling planet, as the Bible suggests?

Needless to say, this revolution of thought provided great fuel for the atheists, skeptics and agnostics. According to Paul Steidl:

The truths of God’s word and the work of Jesus Christ in no way depend on our position.... If anything, our lack of a unique position in the natural universe is only an illustration of the natural man’s lack of a unique position before God (1979, p. 6).

In other words, the presence of our material selves in the material Universe is not as important to God as our immortal souls. On the other hand, it is difficult to doubt that God has placed our planet in just the right place, and set it in motion in just the right way, to benefit the survival of humanity.

Copernicus submitted his ideas in the early sixteenth century, stating that geocentricity was incorrect after all. Some of Copernicus’ ideas could not be defended scientifically, but science generally had little to do with the attacks on this theory. Calvin, for instance, criticized Copernicus by appealing to passages in Joshua and Psalms that supposedly show the fixity of the Earth relative to the Sun. Galileo came along a hundred years later and firmed up the Copernican theories with better mathematics and with more accurate and numerous measurements. Unlike Copernicus, Galileo was persistent, arrogant, and prepared to stand up to the wrath of the Inquisition. Galileo’s assertion that the Bible should be interpreted in light of man’s knowledge of the natural world, and that Scripture should not have authority in scientific controversies, did little to endear him to church leaders. Thus, rather than being the case of “science versus the Bible,” it was “dogmatic scientist versus religious dogmatism.” This, of course, is not all the story; the remainder would be covered in a good history book.

One of the passages used to defend the biblical basis of geocentricity was Joshua 10:12-14, and later references to the same event, in which Joshua prayed, “Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; And thou, Moon, in the valley of Aijalon” (v. 12), that he might defeat the numerous armies assembled against his people. God immediately answered Joshua’s prayer, and in the following verse he wrote: “And the Sun stood still, and the Moon stayed.” Keil and Delitzsch have suggested that either the day appeared long to the warriors of Israel because of the greatness of the task they performed (i.e., defeating the enemy), or that God miraculously caused the day to be lengthened so the Lord’s army could perform its task. The former is consistent with similar language in other parts of the Old Testament, and the latter explanation is totally consistent with God’s infinite power over the Universe (1982, 2:106-112). In any case, as Joshua goes on to say in verse 14, “there was no day like that before it or after it.” Thus, whether miraculous or not, to say that these verses teach that the Earth continues to stand still, and that the Earth is the center of the Universe, is both a gross misinterpretation and a misapplication of the verse. This passage does not teach geocentricity, despite Calvin’s claims to the contrary.

In addition to Joshua 10, Calvin used Psalm 93:1 in defense of geocentricity. The verse simply suggests that the Earth is stable, and cannot be moved, but is it trying to say that the Earth is totally motionless in every sense? As the passage is primarily concerned with God’s majesty and power, it is more likely that the psalmist is saying, “Who but God could move the Earth?” Besides, the Earth is set in an unchanging orbit around the Sun, all the while rotating at a steady speed on a fixed axis.

Psalm 19:6 is a passage that often is cited as another example of Scripture teaching pre-Copernican astronomy. In this verse, the Sun is said to move, rather than the Earth, and therefore is said by some to imply that the Sun revolves around the Earth. There are many other verses in the Bible that talk about the Sun “going down” or “rising up.” This hardly should be surprising, however, since events in the Bible often are written in accommodative or “phenomenal” language—i.e., the language used to express phenomena as man sees them. Even today we teach our children that “the Sun rises in the east and sets in the west,” and astronomers and navigators use the Earth as a fixed point for purposes of simple observation, expressing distances and directions in relation to it. The weatherman on the evening news often will state that the Sun is going to “rise” at a certain time the following morning and “set” at a certain time the following evening. Why does no one accuse him of scientific error? Because we all are perfectly aware of, and understand, the Copernican view of the solar system, and because we likewise understand that our weatherman is using “phenomenal” language.

In addition, scientific foreknowledge could be claimed from Psalm 19:6 if a more literal interpretation was applied in the following way. Astronomers now know that the Sun moves in a gigantic orbit around the center of the Milky Way galaxy; traveling at 600,000 miles an hour it would take the Sun 230 million years to make just one orbit! It also is believed that our galaxy is moving with respect to other galaxies in the Universe. The Sun’s going forth is indeed from one end of the heavens to the other. In any case, there is no way to substantiate the claims that the Bible teaches geocentricity, or that it promotes any other anti-scientific concept.

Geocentricity: Does the Bible Really Say the Sun Revolves Around the Earth?

Wow, you are just copying and pasting crap you know nothing about.

Michelson-Morely had nothing to do with trying to detect the motion of the Earth around the sun. It was a test to see the effect of the theorized aether on the speed of light. Light was split to be measured with or against the movement of the Earth and perpendicular to the Earth at the same time. What it ended up proving was the consistency of the speed of light, not that the Earth does not move around the sun or whatever you are trying to claim.

And as the highlighted bible quote shows, not only does the sun revolve around the Earth, it speeds up at night! So even if you want to say it actually means the Earth spins on its axis, then the Earth spins faster between sunset and sunrise.

Here is another version of the same verse:

The New Living Translation
Ecclesiastes 1:5 The sun rises and sets and hurries around to rise again.

You're just simply wrong.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Can the sun be destroyed ?

Sure it can, just pour lots and lots of water on it.

 

[Youwerecreated]

You can't be serious!

First of all, WingNutsDaily is hardly a credible scientific source, in fact, it is not any kind of credible source!

Bubbles, fluid, and water are hardly NOTHING!!!! Now when this experimenter sends sound into NOTHING and produces protons then you will have something, but don't hold your breath waiting!

One other thing, i see how your side takes scriptures out of context to show contradictions while not considering not everything in the bible is literal. With more reading you can get the true meaning of what's written and there are no contradictions at all.

So then it can be argued that God did not literally create the universe, man or anything else. And it can be argued that Jesus did not literally die for our sins or literally rise from the grave. Who is to say what can be taken literally and what can't?

You can argue whatever you like, but you will have zero evidence to prove your arguement.

The bible has been proven to be a reliable source by science and you need to deal with it.