If Hobby Lobby wins...

[Papageorgio]

Then whats stopping them from requiring everyone to say the lords prayer before work? Or have a certain diet?

Could any other owner force his beliefs on his employees in other ways? Could the owner who doesnt believe in prescription meds opt out of it all together and argue for "natural healing" methods? Could a vegan make their stores meat free? Even their employees lunches?

Where does it stop? Or a better question, WHAT makes it stop?

Gee...what has stopped them from requiring that already you clown? If Hobby Lobby wins (and they will) they will continue business as usual and continue to pay for the 16 contraceptive methods that they ALREADY pay for you twit. They will NOT have to cover the other 4.

My God, you people are ridiculous.

Yes they are, compromise is not in their vocabulary, it is all their way, there is no choice. Totalitarian government is their wish.

 

[paperview]

Yes I would, it is a violation of the 1st amendment, it is not allowing the freedom of religion.

It is sad that to be a citizen in a country that forces you to buy product to remain a citizen in good standing, no other industrialized country forces that burden on its people. We have lost a huge freedom.

You don't think any of your tax dollars are used to buy anything? Are you fucking nuts?

Taxes are much different, it is a way to run the government, last I look health care is a private industry regulated by the government. But the government is forcing us to buy from a private company and allows us no choice and we pay. I had a health care plan that worked for me, now I pay more for stuff I don't want or need. It is an assault on our freedoms.

For the first 50 years or so of our country - every able-bodied free white man was forced to purchase not just one product, but many.

And be made available to parade with such products, two to three times a years, or face fines or jail.

 

[paperview]

Oh, okay. So if I win the lottery, I'm obligated to purchase health insurance for some wino sleeping in the overpass because I have the means to do so? I don't fucking think so. Please wrap your tiny mind around the idea that no one has an obligation to do ANYTHING for you, and the more you talk, the less DESIRE they have to do so.

You might also consider that nothing in the Constitution says, ". . . free exercise thereof . . . unless you happen to be rich and KNB envies you because he's too shit-poor and worthless to afford his own beer, in which case you have no rights except to shut up and pay him to stand around picking his nose".

Hobby Lobby doesn't have to be a church, because the only people who think the First Amendment applies only to churches are ignorant fuckstains like you who are challenged by reading "Cat in the Hat". In fact, I really hope I'm not being to articulate for you to understand right now. I'd hate for any of the contempt you create to be missed.

Then why did the Supreme Court decide that states couild outlaw polygamy? The Mormons argued, accurately, that polygamy was part of their religion.

Did the Court wrongly decide that case? Should Mormon polygamous marriages be required to be legal and recognized?

What was the SCOTUS case that decided the states could outlaw polygamy?

Reynolds v. United States

 

[Redfish]

To allow Hobby Lobby a special exemption to the health insurance law creates a situation where the employees at Hobby Lobby, through no fault of their own,

would be denied equal treatment under the law. Do their rights count?

What about the people who work, through no fault of their own, for a business that employs less than 50 people, or the ones who work for non profit corporations that Obama exempted from the law. or even the ones that had a health plan before Obamacare came along to screw everyone over?

I guess you missed the part where Hobby Lobby employs around 13,000 people.

Sorry, that's a lot more than 50.

But then again................the GOP assholes thought that any business that had less than 25,000 people was a "small, family business".

Wal-Mart is owned by a single family, and they are also the largest employer in this country.

HL said they refused because they were a "family owned business". Does that mean Wal-Mart can do the same thing to their employees?

Me? I think that all of the HL employees should tell HL to stick it up their ass, and buy their own insurance for themselves and their families. At least, that way, if they disagreed with the minimum wage that they were paid, as well as the crappy way they treat their employees, they would have health care that would follow them (because it wasn't provided by the employer known as Hobby Lobby), because it was something they picked for themselves from the ACA, and would have the freedom to search for another job because they weren't worried about having health care for their families, because they were providing it themselves.

Me? I think that all HL employees should get their own health care (some are military vets who can get it for free from the VA), quit HL and tell them to go fuck themselves.

I'd really like to see HL go broke and declare bankruptcy.

Same with Chick Fil A.

Those companies are not family owned, they are publicly traded companies owned by shareholders, many of whom are employees. The Walton family owns a lot of shares, but so do millions of other people.

Your problem is that you hate religious people, you hate people who stand for something.

you are a typical mindless moronic liberal who thinks that the rest of owe you something just because your mother did not abort you in a gas station rest room.

 

[NYcarbineer]

They are. Just like assaults on all kinds of unpopular opinions are assaults on liberty. Anytime we try to dictate what people think, we're overstepping proper limits on government authority.

A law against discrimination is a law against an action not a thought. Get your facts straight.

You hate black people? That's a thought. You deny black people service in your business? That's an action.

No, in fact, "it's the thought that counts", not the action. The exact same action (refusing service, for example) can be deemed legal, or illegal, depending on your thoughts at the time, on your personal reasons for preferential treatment.

God, you're dense. I'm talking about a thought that is not accompanied by any action.

 

[Redfish]

Then why did the Supreme Court decide that states couild outlaw polygamy? The Mormons argued, accurately, that polygamy was part of their religion.

Did the Court wrongly decide that case? Should Mormon polygamous marriages be required to be legal and recognized?

What was the SCOTUS case that decided the states could outlaw polygamy?

Reynolds v. United States

if gay marriage becomes the law of the land via SCOTUS, then Reynolds will be overturned on appeal because there will be no legal argument that can be made against polygamy based on the gay marriage precedent of equal rights.

 

[TooTall]

To allow Hobby Lobby a special exemption to the health insurance law creates a situation where the employees at Hobby Lobby, through no fault of their own,

would be denied equal treatment under the law. Do their rights count?

What about the people who work, through no fault of their own, for a business that employs less than 50 people, or the ones who work for non profit corporations that Obama exempted from the law. or even the ones that had a health plan before Obamacare came along to screw everyone over?

I guess you missed the part where Hobby Lobby employs around 13,000 people.

Sorry, that's a lot more than 50.

But then again................the GOP assholes thought that any business that had less than 25,000 people was a "small, family business".

Wal-Mart is owned by a single family, and they are also the largest employer in this country.

HL said they refused because they were a "family owned business". Does that mean Wal-Mart can do the same thing to their employees?

Me? I think that all of the HL employees should tell HL to stick it up their ass, and buy their own insurance for themselves and their families. At least, that way, if they disagreed with the minimum wage that they were paid, as well as the crappy way they treat their employees, they would have health care that would follow them (because it wasn't provided by the employer known as Hobby Lobby), because it was something they picked for themselves from the ACA, and would have the freedom to search for another job because they weren't worried about having health care for their families, because they were providing it themselves.

Me? I think that all HL employees should get their own health care (some are military vets who can get it for free from the VA), quit HL and tell them to go fuck themselves.

I'd really like to see HL go broke and declare bankruptcy.

Same with Chick Fil A.

If I can find any other companies or corporations that a Christian is the CEO or President of I will post their names so you can add them to your list of companies that you want Obama to put out of business. That will certainly do wonders for the unemployment rate in the country.

 

[Freewill]

To allow Hobby Lobby a special exemption to the health insurance law creates a situation where the employees at Hobby Lobby, through no fault of their own,

would be denied equal treatment under the law. Do their rights count?

What about the people who work, through no fault of their own, for a business that employs less than 50 people, or the ones who work for non profit corporations that Obama exempted from the law. or even the ones that had a health plan before Obamacare came along to screw everyone over?

Is that a yes or a no?

PS...Obamacare didn't screw me over at all. Don't include me in your 'everyone'.

Correct! What should have been said, is that it screwed everyone over just not everyone realizes how.

 

[paperview]

What was the SCOTUS case that decided the states could outlaw polygamy?

Reynolds v. United States

if gay marriage becomes the law of the land via SCOTUS, then Reynolds will be overturned on appeal because there will be no legal argument that can be made against polygamy based on the gay marriage precedent of equal rights.

No, it won't, Oliver Wendall.

 

[Freewill]

What about the people who work, through no fault of their own, for a business that employs less than 50 people, or the ones who work for non profit corporations that Obama exempted from the law. or even the ones that had a health plan before Obamacare came along to screw everyone over?

I guess you missed the part where Hobby Lobby employs around 13,000 people.

Sorry, that's a lot more than 50.

But then again................the GOP assholes thought that any business that had less than 25,000 people was a "small, family business".

Wal-Mart is owned by a single family, and they are also the largest employer in this country.

HL said they refused because they were a "family owned business". Does that mean Wal-Mart can do the same thing to their employees?

Me? I think that all of the HL employees should tell HL to stick it up their ass, and buy their own insurance for themselves and their families. At least, that way, if they disagreed with the minimum wage that they were paid, as well as the crappy way they treat their employees, they would have health care that would follow them (because it wasn't provided by the employer known as Hobby Lobby), because it was something they picked for themselves from the ACA, and would have the freedom to search for another job because they weren't worried about having health care for their families, because they were providing it themselves.

Me? I think that all HL employees should get their own health care (some are military vets who can get it for free from the VA), quit HL and tell them to go fuck themselves.

I'd really like to see HL go broke and declare bankruptcy.

Same with Chick Fil A.

If I can find any other companies or corporations that a Christian is the CEO or President of I will post their names so you can add them to your list of companies that you want Obama to put out of business. That will certainly do wonders for the unemployment rate in the country.

After reading his hate filled rant it has made me hungry for some chicken and I might start a new hobby, just need to get some supplies.

 

[Freewill]

Reynolds v. United States

if gay marriage becomes the law of the land via SCOTUS, then Reynolds will be overturned on appeal because there will be no legal argument that can be made against polygamy based on the gay marriage precedent of equal rights.

No, it won't, Oliver Wendall.

Do you say that because government does have the ability to limit who can marry? In other words government defines marriage?

 

[Papageorgio]

You don't think any of your tax dollars are used to buy anything? Are you fucking nuts?

Taxes are much different, it is a way to run the government, last I look health care is a private industry regulated by the government. But the government is forcing us to buy from a private company and allows us no choice and we pay. I had a health care plan that worked for me, now I pay more for stuff I don't want or need. It is an assault on our freedoms.

For the first 50 years or so of our country - every able-bodied free white man was forced to purchase not just one product, but many.

And be made available to parade with such products, two to three times a years, or face fines or jail.

So Progressives want to go backwards? Huh?

What products were they forced to purchase? I'm forced to purchase a plan with stuff I will never use and other stuff I won't need.

 

[Katzndogz]

What HL should do is close the stores, fire everyone, take their money and invest it in some other welcoming country. Leave this sinking ship like so many others have done.

 

[emilynghiem]

For the first 50 years or so of our country - every able-bodied free white man was forced to purchase not just one product, but many.

And be made available to parade with such products, two to three times a years, or face fines or jail.

OK so you are going back to the days when SLAVERY was not only legal, but courts enforced laws that treated people as property, and violations as theft?

Doesn't this REINFORCE the concept that going back to "taxation without representation"
amounts to "involuntary servitude"?

Doesn't this demonstrate this govt agenda violates the 13th Amendment?
That we are backtracking, to try to push reforms on the backs of people who don't consent?

 

[emilynghiem]

What HL should do is close the stores, fire everyone, take their money and invest it in some other welcoming country. Leave this sinking ship like so many others have done.

Au contraire, by Christian scripture, we should give them whatever they ask.
When asked to walk a few miles, walk 14. When asked for our coat or shirt, hand over all our undergarments to publicize and protest the injustice.

If this case goes the direction of this administration's agenda,
I would propose setting up a charitable fund to pay the costs of meeting the requirements
where the company does not have to engage in any transactions that violate their beliefs.

We need to do this anyway for the impending deadline on enrolling for Obamacare,
which many citizens object to on grounds of their beliefs being violated.

Nobody should have to violate their beliefs to comply with law.

If this is not resolved any other way, I believe the Democrat Party should join with me in setting up such a fund to help people who otherwise cannot comply with law without violating their own consciences and beliefs.

This is like buying slaves to set them free. There is nothing wrong or illegal with setting up a fund to pay the costs of compliance. Instead of a protest by "civil disobedience" it would be the opposite -- protesting bad laws by "civil obedience" and asking help to cover the costs. If people can't afford to give, consider it a LOAN to govt and the Democrat Party to fix this mistake in pushing an agenda that violates people's religious, political and Constitutional beliefs.

I've had enough. I pray that Justice Kennedy and the Court do invoke the wisdom to write out a fair assessment and resolution to this case. but it is not their job to mediate on behalf of the people in conflict. We are responsible for resolving our own conflicts, not pushing it on govt to vote with a simple yes or no, for one side or the other. This is truly an abuse of govt. The Democrat Party leaders and members responsible for this should be held accountable, and if they refuse, then anyone who steps in to pay the costs should be credited for "buying out the Party and shutting them down" until they pay for the consequences of their political actions. Otherwise this is like letting a cult run wild and not facing any consequences for political decisions coming from that group affecting the public.

Had enough. I hope this is fixed, because I don't want to have to do what it takes to fix it if it was left to me and the "impossible" standards I have for Constitutional govt that not even God could meet. You wouldn't like my solution: making everyone mediate conflicts to reach a consensus, and keep all biased agenda and religious disputes OUT OF GOVT and hold Parties accountable for the costs of their own policies and restitution for waste and abuse. I would be as unpopular as Luther, and hated more than the Tea Party and Occupy combined. Don't get me started. I don't want to see what happens next nor does anyone else. Please may our dear God have mercy on us and please fix this some other way.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

To allow Hobby Lobby a special exemption to the health insurance law creates a situation where the employees at Hobby Lobby, through no fault of their own,

would be denied equal treatment under the law. Do their rights count?

What about the people who work, through no fault of their own, for a business that employs less than 50 people, or the ones who work for non profit corporations that Obama exempted from the law. or even the ones that had a health plan before Obamacare came along to screw everyone over?

I guess you missed the part where Hobby Lobby employs around 13,000 people.

I guess you missed the part where millions of people work for companies that fall into the categories I listed.

Sorry, that's a lot more than 50.

And 50 to 90 million is a lot more than 13,000.

If you really care about people getting free birth control you should be outraged that millions of people are denied access by Obama, yet all you actually care about is the fact that you have a chance to bash on some Christians.

But then again................the GOP assholes thought that any business that had less than 25,000 people was a "small, family business".

Even if you can find someone who actually said that, it is completely irrelevant.

Wal-Mart is owned by a single family, and they are also the largest employer in this country.

As usual, you are making things up. WalMart stock is available for anyone to own, which means it is not owned by a single family. I do thank you for making it easier to sneer at you when you try to argue a position.

HL said they refused because they were a "family owned business". Does that mean Wal-Mart can do the same thing to their employees?

Hobby Lobby is a closely held corporation, even the government admits that. WalMart, on the other hand, is a publicly traded company. Hobby Lobby starts their employees at $14 an hour, and has always provided them with a comprehensive health insurance package. Comparing them to the publicly held WalMart is as stupid as comparing Russia and Syria.

Come to think of it, that is exactly what Obama did, which explains your confusion.

Me? I think that all of the HL employees should tell HL to stick it up their ass, and buy their own insurance for themselves and their families. At least, that way, if they disagreed with the minimum wage that they were paid, as well as the crappy way they treat their employees, they would have health care that would follow them (because it wasn't provided by the employer known as Hobby Lobby), because it was something they picked for themselves from the ACA, and would have the freedom to search for another job because they weren't worried about having health care for their families, because they were providing it themselves.

Where, exactly, is $14 an hour minimum wage?

Me? I think that all HL employees should get their own health care (some are military vets who can get it for free from the VA), quit HL and tell them to go fuck themselves.

Because you are the expert on all things that exist only inside your head I see no way to counter your arguments.

I'd really like to see HL go broke and declare bankruptcy.

Same with Chick Fil A.

The US will go bankrupt before either of the companies you hate.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Uncle Tom?

Fucking scumbag

Yep, Joe is a racist and a bigot, nothing new though, we all know that.

No, I just don't like appointing unqualified people to SCOTUS because you are forwarding an agenda instead of appointing the best people you can find.

22 years on the Court, what has Uncle Tom really contributed other than shining Scalia's shoes?

It is just a coincidence that all of the unqualified people you think shouldn't get the job are black, right? After all, some of your best friends are black.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

To allow Hobby Lobby a special exemption to the health insurance law creates a situation where the employees at Hobby Lobby, through no fault of their own,

would be denied equal treatment under the law. Do their rights count?

What about the people who work, through no fault of their own, for a business that employs less than 50 people, or the ones who work for non profit corporations that Obama exempted from the law. or even the ones that had a health plan before Obamacare came along to screw everyone over?

Is that a yes or a no?

PS...Obamacare didn't screw me over at all. Don't include me in your 'everyone'.

The word you left out of your statement was yet.

 

[mamooth]

Not exactly, you would need to show that your religion has a broad basis, is widely accepted and recognized by other religions sects. and meets all the requirements for a non profit tax exempt religious organization according to government regulations.

It is not like the Catholics, Baptist, Methodist, etc, etc or not readily recognized as run of the mill religions accepted by most reasonable and prudent members of society.

Now I am not sure your free market cult qualifies for the accepted meaning of a religious sect ...

That wasn't just a rhetorical question anyway, was it?? You seriously need help with the reasoning behind this??

I think you're the one needing help, being you're saying religious rights should be determined by popularity.

 

[DrDoomNGloom]

So if I think the mininum wage, social security withholding, environmental regs and safety regs violate my free-market-cult religious beliefs, can my business can opt out of those as well?

If not, why the wild hypocritical double standards?

Not exactly, you would need to show that your religion has a broad basis, is widely accepted and recognized by other religions sects. and meets all the requirements for a non profit tax exempt religious organization according to government regulations.

It is not like the Catholics, Baptist, Methodist, etc, etc or not readily recognized as run of the mill religions accepted by most reasonable and prudent members of society.

Now I am not sure your free market cult qualifies for the accepted meaning of a religious sect ...

That wasn't just a rhetorical question anyway, was it?? You seriously need help with the reasoning behind this??

Actually, you have no idea what you are talking about. If you are the only person on the planet that believes in your religion it is no less valid, legally, than Catholicism or Islam.

I know exactly what I am talking about, just for grins and chuckles let me offer another bite off the apple before I defend my last sentiment.

The next argument that I will be making is "Time is of the essence" ...

I have my arguments ready, how about you??
Hint, needs to relate specifically to this issue ...