If it is your body & your choice why the he'll do I have to pay for the next 18 years?

[PratchettFan]

Republicans don't believe women have the right to decide what is good for their own bodies. How can you not know that?

What a stupid slogan...it makes no sense. We don't care what the woman does to her body...she can be anorexic, have anal sex with negroes, pierce her nipples and clitoris...who cares? It's the baby's body that's the issue....it has it's own heart, and lungs, liver, fingers, toes, etc. All she's doing is incubating it. When a pregnant woman is shot in the abdomen, the perp is charged with double-murder. But there's no charge for some Tiller to stab that same baby in the head and vacuum out it's brains to satisfy her wishes. That's murder.....plain and simple.

I have my own heart, lungs, fingers, toes, etc. Does that give me a right to your body? If I need a blood transfusion, can I take your blood against your will?

 

[-S-]

Why do so many of you live in the land of make believe. This is the real world where being practical is a must. Keep your pie in the sky not before marriage and all that bullshit to yourself & yours.

I don't know what is impractical about "If you want zero responsibility, don't make the baby."

And this 'equality' of men and women with babies you're spouting is already skewed.

It's already not equal when you consider the fact that SHE'S THE ONE THAT HAS TO GROW IT INSIDE OF HER.
Are you planning on taking shifts with her somehow?

She gets the choice to have the baby because she's the one that HAS TO HAVE IT.

She's doing the extra work, so why shouldn't she get the final say?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I insist that men should have that choice just like women do, yes

We have a choice not to make a baby we don't want. I have one son, which is what I wanted. I don't have any others and made sure of that. It's called personal responsibility. I thought conservatives were all about that.

This thread isn't about conservatives you stupid fuck. It is about the equal treatment of ALL men in this situation.
What you morons fail to understand is that what YOU or I would choose to do is anecdotal and fairly irrelevant to the subject as we do not speak for ALL MEN but only ourselves

Why can't men be responsible adults?

Why do men want to get out of their responsibilities?

Why does the OP whine about men having responsibilites?

Why can't women be responsible adults?

Why do women want to get out of their responsibilities?

Why does bodecea whine about men having equal options?

 

[koshergrl]

This


Why can a woman KILL the baby but the man is FORCED to abide by whatever decision she makes.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating fathers to drop out of their child's life. I am advocating that the responsible parties have equally say so in the outcomes of their own futures.

And my children are fully grown so leave the personal bullshit out of the thread.

Because it is not the man's body that has to carry the child. They both have a financial stake, but only she has to physically put herself at risk. The man gets no say in this because it is not his person that is on the line. If a man ever gets pregnant, then he gets a say.

So ever even consider the kids right to live??

No. I don't. No one has the right to the use of the body of another without their consent, no matter what the need. If anyone does, then everyone does.

Horseshit. Infants aren't *squatters* or parasites. They are human beings created at least in part by the one that carries them. Once they're created, the manner of their creation doesn't matter, it's our responsibility to protect them. Get over it, death cultist.

Not up to you. Its up to the woman involved and no one else. If you don't like it, then don't have an abortion. But you have no more right to determine how a woman's body is to be used than I have over how your body is to be used.

Shut the fuck up, baby killer.

 

[koshergrl]

This thread isn't about conservatives you stupid fuck. It is about the equal treatment of ALL men in this situation.

All men equally have the choice to not make a baby they don't want.

Are you fucking dense or what? This is about AFTER CONCEPTION you stupid motherfucker.

And stop altering my posts

one more example why fathers should be required to get a license before they can procreate

Onto ignore you go, see ya in another 5 years or so, dainty. It's been real.

 

[PratchettFan]

QUOTE="PratchettFan, post: 11238928, member: 37752"]Because it is not the man's body that has to carry the child. They both have a financial stake, but only she has to physically put herself at risk. The man gets no say in this because it is not his person that is on the line. If a man ever gets pregnant, then he gets a say.[/QUOTE]
So ever even consider the kids right to live??[/QUOTE]

No. I don't. No one has the right to the use of the body of another without their consent, no matter what the need. If anyone does, then everyone does.[/QUOTE]
Horseshit. Infants aren't *squatters* or parasites. They are human beings created at least in part by the one that carries them. Once they're created, the manner of their creation doesn't matter, it's our responsibility to protect them. Get over it, death cultist.[/QUOTE]

Not up to you. Its up to the woman involved and no one else. If you don't like it, then don't have an abortion. But you have no more right to determine how a woman's body is to be used than I have over how your body is to be used.[/QUOTE]
Shut the fuck up, baby killer.[/QUOTE]

No. If you don't like it, tough. I really have no respect at all for people so free with other people's rights and other people's bodies. If I suggested it applied to you, you would scream to the roof.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

This thread isn't about conservatives you stupid fuck. It is about the equal treatment of ALL men in this situation.

All men equally have the choice to not make a baby they don't want.

Are you fucking dense or what? This is about AFTER CONCEPTION you stupid motherfucker.

And stop altering my posts

one more example why fathers should be required to get a license before they can procreate

Onto ignore you go, see ya in another 5 years or so, dainty. It's been real.

says the wench who calls people baby killer.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Why do so many of you live in the land of make believe. This is the real world where being practical is a must. Keep your pie in the sky not before marriage and all that bullshit to yourself & yours.

I don't know what is impractical about "If you want zero responsibility, don't make the baby."

And this 'equality' of men and women with babies you're spouting is already skewed.

It's already not equal when you consider the fact that SHE'S THE ONE THAT HAS TO GROW IT INSIDE OF HER.
Are you planning on taking shifts with her somehow?

She gets the choice to have the baby because she's the one that HAS TO HAVE IT.

She's doing the extra work, so why shouldn't she get the final say?

Because life is more important than a momentary lapse of judgment. And that is what most abortions are. A lapse in judgment because you don't want the RESPONSIBILITY that you already joined in.

Are we seeing the irony yet?

Probably not....

 

[Syriusly]

You want complete control over the entire situation (pregnancy, life & death) then you should foot the entire bill.

Period

Abort your baby or I will not pay child support....got it

Or keep the baby, but I don't want it.

This


Why can a woman KILL the baby but the man is FORCED to abide by whatever decision she makes.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating fathers to drop out of their child's life. I am advocating that the responsible parties have equally say so in the outcomes of their own futures.

And my children are fully grown so leave the personal bullshit out of the thread.

Life isn't always fair. You're a Grampa and you still haven't learned that?

Women's lives are disproportionately affected by children. They have to bear them, they take more time off work, they disproportionately have to tend to them.

Then you whine they get to decide whether have to carry the baby in their own bodies or not? Too damned bad.

Then you whine about the money? The father doesn't want to support the kid so the options for the kid end up being to be killed or potentially live in poverty on the mother's income?

Here's an option the father had if he didn't want kids. Keep it in his pants. Since he didn't and wasn't responsible, shit happened. Welcome to life.

Seems to me the only ones whining in this thread are those than can't take my opinion. Most of you, including you, have done nothing more than lash out emotionally. There is no logic in most of the responses in this thread..

You have it all backwards- there was and is no logic in the premise of your thread.

You started the thread whining, and you continue to whine.

Apparently you had children- hopefully you appreciate them and they appreciate you.

Stop whining about having to pay for them.

 

[BullKurtz]

I have my own heart, lungs, fingers, toes, etc. Does that give me a right to your body? If I need a blood transfusion, can I take your blood against your will?

 

[Syriusly]

I get your point. You don't get mine. Neither you nor I have shredded anything. If we had the discussion would have ended.

I get your point. You believe that financial responsibility should be based on a man's ability to control a woman's body. If he can't force her to bear a child she doesn't want or force her to abort a child he doesn't want, he shouldn't have to pay.

You're simply wrong, with your entire argument based on a series of nested fallacies.

First, your basis of a man's obligation is a fallacy. You've posited that the basis is his choice. When in reality, its the existence of his child. If the child exists, his obligation exists. His consent in the birth of child is irrelevant. It has no bearing nor effect on his obligation.

Simply destroying your entire argument. Completely and utterly. But lets kick a dead horse, shall we?

Second, both the man and the woman have the same control over their own bodies. A man can choose not to carry a child to term in his body. And so can a woman. You're insisting that unless a man has control over a WOMAN'S body, he doesn't have freedom or choice. That's nonsense. He has freedom and choice over his own actions and the use of his own body.

'Freedom' isn't the authority to control someone else. That bastardizes the very meaning of the word 'freedom'. If a man wants to choose if he will carry a child to term in his own body, he should get pregnant. But at no point does he get to make that choice for anyone else.

Killing your argument again.

Your first post is 100% wrong.

You don't get my point.

Let's try again shall we?

Just like a woman, a man should have the ability to walk away from a child prior to birth. Period.
The woman can & does this for ANY reason she wants by killing the child. I'm simply suggesting that prior to birth if the man doesn't want the child he too should be able to exercise that same decision by signing his rights away as a father. It has nothing to do with the decision the woman makes.

What's good for the goose and all that shit. Equal treatment under the law.

I would agree with that the moment a man ends up pregnant- then he can decide what to do with his body.

That would be equal treatment.

Until then- men and women control their own bodies- and when a baby is born- then they both have responsibility for the baby.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Abort your baby or I will not pay child support....got it

Or keep the baby, but I don't want it.

This


Why can a woman KILL the baby but the man is FORCED to abide by whatever decision she makes.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating fathers to drop out of their child's life. I am advocating that the responsible parties have equally say so in the outcomes of their own futures.

And my children are fully grown so leave the personal bullshit out of the thread.

Life isn't always fair. You're a Grampa and you still haven't learned that?

Women's lives are disproportionately affected by children. They have to bear them, they take more time off work, they disproportionately have to tend to them.

Then you whine they get to decide whether have to carry the baby in their own bodies or not? Too damned bad.

Then you whine about the money? The father doesn't want to support the kid so the options for the kid end up being to be killed or potentially live in poverty on the mother's income?

Here's an option the father had if he didn't want kids. Keep it in his pants. Since he didn't and wasn't responsible, shit happened. Welcome to life.

Seems to me the only ones whining in this thread are those than can't take my opinion. Most of you, including you, have done nothing more than lash out emotionally. There is no logic in most of the responses in this thread..

You have it all backwards- there was and is no logic in the premise of your thread.

You started the thread whining, and you continue to whine.

Apparently you had children- hopefully you appreciate them and they appreciate you.

Stop whining about having to pay for them.

Why do you all persist in turning this personal? Perhaps because you can't defeat the logic presented and going personal is your only recourse.

 

[Syriusly]

I insist that men should have that choice just like women do, yes

We have a choice not to make a baby we don't want. I have one son, which is what I wanted. I don't have any others and made sure of that. It's called personal responsibility. I thought conservatives were all about that.

This thread isn't about conservatives you stupid fuck. It is about the equal treatment of ALL men in this situation.
What you morons fail to understand is that what YOU or I would choose to do is anecdotal and fairly irrelevant to the subject as we do not speak for ALL MEN but only ourselves

You are an idiot.

A foul mouthed, whiney, infantile idiot.

You lash out like a 12 year old boy on a playground at anyone who disagrees with you.

You just don't want men to be responsible for their actions and refuse to listen or acknowledge anything other than your sense of victimhood.

If you have a child- it is your responsiblity to take care of it.

Period.

 

[Syriusly]

Or keep the baby, but I don't want it.

This


Why can a woman KILL the baby but the man is FORCED to abide by whatever decision she makes.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating fathers to drop out of their child's life. I am advocating that the responsible parties have equally say so in the outcomes of their own futures.

And my children are fully grown so leave the personal bullshit out of the thread.

Life isn't always fair. You're a Grampa and you still haven't learned that?

Women's lives are disproportionately affected by children. They have to bear them, they take more time off work, they disproportionately have to tend to them.

Then you whine they get to decide whether have to carry the baby in their own bodies or not? Too damned bad.

Then you whine about the money? The father doesn't want to support the kid so the options for the kid end up being to be killed or potentially live in poverty on the mother's income?

Here's an option the father had if he didn't want kids. Keep it in his pants. Since he didn't and wasn't responsible, shit happened. Welcome to life.

Seems to me the only ones whining in this thread are those than can't take my opinion. Most of you, including you, have done nothing more than lash out emotionally. There is no logic in most of the responses in this thread..

You have it all backwards- there was and is no logic in the premise of your thread.

You started the thread whining, and you continue to whine.

Apparently you had children- hopefully you appreciate them and they appreciate you.

Stop whining about having to pay for them.

Why do you all persist in turning this personal? Perhaps because you can't defeat the logic presented and going personal is your only recourse.

This from the foul mouthed idiot who attacks everyone who disagrees with him- like this:

Are you fucking dense or what? This is about AFTER CONCEPTION you stupid motherfucker.

You don't want it to be personal- stop personally attacking everyone else.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I get your point. You don't get mine. Neither you nor I have shredded anything. If we had the discussion would have ended.

I get your point. You believe that financial responsibility should be based on a man's ability to control a woman's body. If he can't force her to bear a child she doesn't want or force her to abort a child he doesn't want, he shouldn't have to pay.

You're simply wrong, with your entire argument based on a series of nested fallacies.

First, your basis of a man's obligation is a fallacy. You've posited that the basis is his choice. When in reality, its the existence of his child. If the child exists, his obligation exists. His consent in the birth of child is irrelevant. It has no bearing nor effect on his obligation.

Simply destroying your entire argument. Completely and utterly. But lets kick a dead horse, shall we?

Second, both the man and the woman have the same control over their own bodies. A man can choose not to carry a child to term in his body. And so can a woman. You're insisting that unless a man has control over a WOMAN'S body, he doesn't have freedom or choice. That's nonsense. He has freedom and choice over his own actions and the use of his own body.

'Freedom' isn't the authority to control someone else. That bastardizes the very meaning of the word 'freedom'. If a man wants to choose if he will carry a child to term in his own body, he should get pregnant. But at no point does he get to make that choice for anyone else.

Killing your argument again.

Your first post is 100% wrong.

You don't get my point.

Let's try again shall we?

Just like a woman, a man should have the ability to walk away from a child prior to birth. Period.
The woman can & does this for ANY reason she wants by killing the child. I'm simply suggesting that prior to birth if the man doesn't want the child he too should be able to exercise that same decision by signing his rights away as a father. It has nothing to do with the decision the woman makes.

What's good for the goose and all that shit. Equal treatment under the law.

I would agree with that the moment a man ends up pregnant- then he can decide what to do with his body.

That would be equal treatment.

Until then- men and women control their own bodies- and when a baby is born- then they both have responsibility for the baby.

I have destroyed that argument with one simple point.

If a woman can walk away from an unwanted pregnancy then a man should have an equal right to do so.

You can not argue that point. You simply cant. You fuckers are always screaming about equal rights yet on this issue you falter. That is hypocrisy plain & simple

 

[-S-]

Why do so many of you live in the land of make believe. This is the real world where being practical is a must. Keep your pie in the sky not before marriage and all that bullshit to yourself & yours.

I don't know what is impractical about "If you want zero responsibility, don't make the baby."

And this 'equality' of men and women with babies you're spouting is already skewed.

It's already not equal when you consider the fact that SHE'S THE ONE THAT HAS TO GROW IT INSIDE OF HER.
Are you planning on taking shifts with her somehow?

She gets the choice to have the baby because she's the one that HAS TO HAVE IT.

She's doing the extra work, so why shouldn't she get the final say?

Because life is more important than a momentary lapse of judgment. And that is what most abortions are. A lapse in judgment because you don't want the RESPONSIBILITY that you already joined in.

Are we seeing the irony yet?

Probably not....

There's no irony. The responsibility isn't there until the baby is decided upon. Just because a cluster of cells are in your woman doesn't mean your woman has decided to let them grow into a human. She has a right to a 'lapse of judgment', as you so rudely put it.

Like it or not, abortion is legal. I don't personally think it should be done past the first trimester except for certain reasons, but my personal feelings are not law. I think more people should realize this.


Either way, I didn't think this thread was about the morality of abortion.. Were you trying to change the subject?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

This


Why can a woman KILL the baby but the man is FORCED to abide by whatever decision she makes.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating fathers to drop out of their child's life. I am advocating that the responsible parties have equally say so in the outcomes of their own futures.

And my children are fully grown so leave the personal bullshit out of the thread.

Life isn't always fair. You're a Grampa and you still haven't learned that?

Women's lives are disproportionately affected by children. They have to bear them, they take more time off work, they disproportionately have to tend to them.

Then you whine they get to decide whether have to carry the baby in their own bodies or not? Too damned bad.

Then you whine about the money? The father doesn't want to support the kid so the options for the kid end up being to be killed or potentially live in poverty on the mother's income?

Here's an option the father had if he didn't want kids. Keep it in his pants. Since he didn't and wasn't responsible, shit happened. Welcome to life.

Seems to me the only ones whining in this thread are those than can't take my opinion. Most of you, including you, have done nothing more than lash out emotionally. There is no logic in most of the responses in this thread..

You have it all backwards- there was and is no logic in the premise of your thread.

You started the thread whining, and you continue to whine.

Apparently you had children- hopefully you appreciate them and they appreciate you.

Stop whining about having to pay for them.

Why do you all persist in turning this personal? Perhaps because you can't defeat the logic presented and going personal is your only recourse.

This from the foul mouthed idiot who attacks everyone who disagrees with him- like this:

Are you fucking dense or what? This is about AFTER CONCEPTION you stupid motherfucker.

You don't want it to be personal- stop personally attacking everyone else.

Don't be so sensitive. Bitch

 

[kaz]

This


Why can a woman KILL the baby but the man is FORCED to abide by whatever decision she makes.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating fathers to drop out of their child's life. I am advocating that the responsible parties have equally say so in the outcomes of their own futures.

And my children are fully grown so leave the personal bullshit out of the thread.

Life isn't always fair. You're a Grampa and you still haven't learned that?

Women's lives are disproportionately affected by children. They have to bear them, they take more time off work, they disproportionately have to tend to them.

Then you whine they get to decide whether have to carry the baby in their own bodies or not? Too damned bad.

Then you whine about the money? The father doesn't want to support the kid so the options for the kid end up being to be killed or potentially live in poverty on the mother's income?

Here's an option the father had if he didn't want kids. Keep it in his pants. Since he didn't and wasn't responsible, shit happened. Welcome to life.

Seems to me the only ones whining in this thread are those than can't take my opinion. Most of you, including you, have done nothing more than lash out emotionally. There is no logic in most of the responses in this thread.

Tell you what. When you courageless pricks can go down to the ghettos and preach your keep it in your pants nonsense to all those fathers who have children for a half dozen different mothers then AND ONLY THEN can you suggest to me what I, A RESPONSIBLE PARENT, should do about the children in my life.

I clearly explained my position, dumb ass. Read my post again.

So I'm being irresponsible as a guy saying the father can't escape his responsibility? You said if he doesn't want the baby why does he have to pay for it? And you think YOU are the responsible one?

Look man, liberals are dicks, but in the human race women are the ones who have to carry babies and it's a high price. Being a dick back isn't a good rebuttal.

The guy had a choice, he stuck it, he didn't wrap it, now there are consequences. No shit. But the woman should not be forced to carry a baby and the baby if born should not be screwed because the father got a get out of jail free card by the government

The fact that Koshergrl just thanked your PRO ABORTION response to me just goes to show how irrational people can be. She is so desperate to "get me", like it is some kind of game, that she agreed to your no woman should be forced to carry a child nonsense.

Pathetic

Well I missed that but you're still a loser.

I didn't say that, he's trying to deflect

 

[Ravi]

Again....we should listen to males in this regard.

Are you going senile?

She's saying that you are saying the male gets the decision, not that you are a male. Jebus!

Uh, no she's not, this is the second time she's done it in this thread.

And you've been all over this thread ceding control to the male in the equation. Read for comprehension.

No, I'm being what's called 'fair', I'm not a victim just because I'm a woman, and if I do something irresponsible then I live with and accept the consequences for that behavior. I'm not a femi-nazi that's out to destroy men at every opportunity.

And I don't see how giving men the same 'choice' after conception as to whether or not they want to be a father, is ceding control of anything.

I know you don't.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Life isn't always fair. You're a Grampa and you still haven't learned that?

Women's lives are disproportionately affected by children. They have to bear them, they take more time off work, they disproportionately have to tend to them.

Then you whine they get to decide whether have to carry the baby in their own bodies or not? Too damned bad.

Then you whine about the money? The father doesn't want to support the kid so the options for the kid end up being to be killed or potentially live in poverty on the mother's income?

Here's an option the father had if he didn't want kids. Keep it in his pants. Since he didn't and wasn't responsible, shit happened. Welcome to life.

Seems to me the only ones whining in this thread are those than can't take my opinion. Most of you, including you, have done nothing more than lash out emotionally. There is no logic in most of the responses in this thread.

Tell you what. When you courageless pricks can go down to the ghettos and preach your keep it in your pants nonsense to all those fathers who have children for a half dozen different mothers then AND ONLY THEN can you suggest to me what I, A RESPONSIBLE PARENT, should do about the children in my life.

I clearly explained my position, dumb ass. Read my post again.

So I'm being irresponsible as a guy saying the father can't escape his responsibility? You said if he doesn't want the baby why does he have to pay for it? And you think YOU are the responsible one?

Look man, liberals are dicks, but in the human race women are the ones who have to carry babies and it's a high price. Being a dick back isn't a good rebuttal.

The guy had a choice, he stuck it, he didn't wrap it, now there are consequences. No shit. But the woman should not be forced to carry a baby and the baby if born should not be screwed because the father got a get out of jail free card by the government

The fact that Koshergrl just thanked your PRO ABORTION response to me just goes to show how irrational people can be. She is so desperate to "get me", like it is some kind of game, that she agreed to your no woman should be forced to carry a child nonsense.

Pathetic

Well I missed that but you're still a loser.

I didn't say that, he's trying to deflect

Your words and I quote,

"But the woman should not be forced to carry a baby"

Own your words