If it is your body & your choice why the he'll do I have to pay for the next 18 years?

[bodecea]

I insist that men should have that choice just like women do, yes

We have a choice not to make a baby we don't want. I have one son, which is what I wanted. I don't have any others and made sure of that. It's called personal responsibility. I thought conservatives were all about that.

This thread isn't about conservatives you stupid fuck. It is about the equal treatment of ALL men in this situation.
What you morons fail to understand is that what YOU or I would choose to do is anecdotal and fairly irrelevant to the subject as we do not speak for ALL MEN but only ourselves

Why can't men be responsible adults?

Why do men want to get out of their responsibilities?

Why does the OP whine about men having responsibilites?

Why can't women be responsible adults?

Why do women want to get out of their responsibilities?

Why does bodecea whine about men having equal options?

Women are responsibile adults by default

They don't

Dude, you need a tissue? Again?

 

[kaz]

Seems to me the only ones whining in this thread are those than can't take my opinion. Most of you, including you, have done nothing more than lash out emotionally. There is no logic in most of the responses in this thread.

Tell you what. When you courageless pricks can go down to the ghettos and preach your keep it in your pants nonsense to all those fathers who have children for a half dozen different mothers then AND ONLY THEN can you suggest to me what I, A RESPONSIBLE PARENT, should do about the children in my life.

I clearly explained my position, dumb ass. Read my post again.

So I'm being irresponsible as a guy saying the father can't escape his responsibility? You said if he doesn't want the baby why does he have to pay for it? And you think YOU are the responsible one?

Look man, liberals are dicks, but in the human race women are the ones who have to carry babies and it's a high price. Being a dick back isn't a good rebuttal.

The guy had a choice, he stuck it, he didn't wrap it, now there are consequences. No shit. But the woman should not be forced to carry a baby and the baby if born should not be screwed because the father got a get out of jail free card by the government

The fact that Koshergrl just thanked your PRO ABORTION response to me just goes to show how irrational people can be. She is so desperate to "get me", like it is some kind of game, that she agreed to your no woman should be forced to carry a child nonsense.

Pathetic

Well I missed that but you're still a loser.

I didn't say that, he's trying to deflect

Your words and I quote,

"But the woman should not be forced to carry a baby"

Own your words

I'm pro-choice, certainly. Koshergirl knows that, we've debated it many times before. But you made it sound like that was the point of my argument because you know that's a big issue to her when that isn't the gist of what I am arguing. I am saying it was a ploy to piss her off, not that it was factually wrong

 

[kaz]

Women are responsibile adults by default

They don't

Dude, you need a tissue? Again?

Men would grow up eventually, the problem is we just don't live long enough

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I insist that men should have that choice just like women do, yes

We have a choice not to make a baby we don't want. I have one son, which is what I wanted. I don't have any others and made sure of that. It's called personal responsibility. I thought conservatives were all about that.

This thread isn't about conservatives you stupid fuck. It is about the equal treatment of ALL men in this situation.
What you morons fail to understand is that what YOU or I would choose to do is anecdotal and fairly irrelevant to the subject as we do not speak for ALL MEN but only ourselves

Why can't men be responsible adults?

Why do men want to get out of their responsibilities?

Why does the OP whine about men having responsibilites?

Why can't women be responsible adults?

Why do women want to get out of their responsibilities?

Why does bodecea whine about men having equal options?

Women are responsibile adults by default

They don't

Dude, you need a tissue? Again?

That is the dumbest thing I've ever seen you say. Truly a spectacle of stupidity

 

[Ravi]

I get your point. You don't get mine. Neither you nor I have shredded anything. If we had the discussion would have ended.

I get your point. You believe that financial responsibility should be based on a man's ability to control a woman's body. If he can't force her to bear a child she doesn't want or force her to abort a child he doesn't want, he shouldn't have to pay.

You're simply wrong, with your entire argument based on a series of nested fallacies.

First, your basis of a man's obligation is a fallacy. You've posited that the basis is his choice. When in reality, its the existence of his child. If the child exists, his obligation exists. His consent in the birth of child is irrelevant. It has no bearing nor effect on his obligation.

Simply destroying your entire argument. Completely and utterly. But lets kick a dead horse, shall we?

Second, both the man and the woman have the same control over their own bodies. A man can choose not to carry a child to term in his body. And so can a woman. You're insisting that unless a man has control over a WOMAN'S body, he doesn't have freedom or choice. That's nonsense. He has freedom and choice over his own actions and the use of his own body.

'Freedom' isn't the authority to control someone else. That bastardizes the very meaning of the word 'freedom'. If a man wants to choose if he will carry a child to term in his own body, he should get pregnant. But at no point does he get to make that choice for anyone else.

Killing your argument again.

Your first post is 100% wrong.

You don't get my point.

Let's try again shall we?

Just like a woman, a man should have the ability to walk away from a child prior to birth. Period.
The woman can & does this for ANY reason she wants by killing the child. I'm simply suggesting that prior to birth if the man doesn't want the child he too should be able to exercise that same decision by signing his rights away as a father. It has nothing to do with the decision the woman makes.

What's good for the goose and all that shit. Equal treatment under the law.

I would agree with that the moment a man ends up pregnant- then he can decide what to do with his body.

That would be equal treatment.

Until then- men and women control their own bodies- and when a baby is born- then they both have responsibility for the baby.

I have destroyed that argument with one simple point.

If a woman can walk away from an unwanted pregnancy then a man should have an equal right to do so.

You can not argue that point. You simply cant. You fuckers are always screaming about equal rights yet on this issue you falter. That is hypocrisy plain & simple

If you get pregnant I will let you decide if you give birth or not.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I get your point. You don't get mine. Neither you nor I have shredded anything. If we had the discussion would have ended.

I get your point. You believe that financial responsibility should be based on a man's ability to control a woman's body. If he can't force her to bear a child she doesn't want or force her to abort a child he doesn't want, he shouldn't have to pay.

You're simply wrong, with your entire argument based on a series of nested fallacies.

First, your basis of a man's obligation is a fallacy. You've posited that the basis is his choice. When in reality, its the existence of his child. If the child exists, his obligation exists. His consent in the birth of child is irrelevant. It has no bearing nor effect on his obligation.

Simply destroying your entire argument. Completely and utterly. But lets kick a dead horse, shall we?

Second, both the man and the woman have the same control over their own bodies. A man can choose not to carry a child to term in his body. And so can a woman. You're insisting that unless a man has control over a WOMAN'S body, he doesn't have freedom or choice. That's nonsense. He has freedom and choice over his own actions and the use of his own body.

'Freedom' isn't the authority to control someone else. That bastardizes the very meaning of the word 'freedom'. If a man wants to choose if he will carry a child to term in his own body, he should get pregnant. But at no point does he get to make that choice for anyone else.

Killing your argument again.

Your first post is 100% wrong.

You don't get my point.

Let's try again shall we?

Just like a woman, a man should have the ability to walk away from a child prior to birth. Period.
The woman can & does this for ANY reason she wants by killing the child. I'm simply suggesting that prior to birth if the man doesn't want the child he too should be able to exercise that same decision by signing his rights away as a father. It has nothing to do with the decision the woman makes.

What's good for the goose and all that shit. Equal treatment under the law.

I would agree with that the moment a man ends up pregnant- then he can decide what to do with his body.

That would be equal treatment.

Until then- men and women control their own bodies- and when a baby is born- then they both have responsibility for the baby.

I have destroyed that argument with one simple point.

If a woman can walk away from an unwanted pregnancy then a man should have an equal right to do so.

You can not argue that point. You simply cant. You fuckers are always screaming about equal rights yet on this issue you falter. That is hypocrisy plain & simple

If you get pregnant I will let you decide if you give birth or not.

Promises promises

 

[bodecea]

Life isn't always fair. You're a Grampa and you still haven't learned that?

Women's lives are disproportionately affected by children. They have to bear them, they take more time off work, they disproportionately have to tend to them.

Then you whine they get to decide whether have to carry the baby in their own bodies or not? Too damned bad.

Then you whine about the money? The father doesn't want to support the kid so the options for the kid end up being to be killed or potentially live in poverty on the mother's income?

Here's an option the father had if he didn't want kids. Keep it in his pants. Since he didn't and wasn't responsible, shit happened. Welcome to life.

Seems to me the only ones whining in this thread are those than can't take my opinion. Most of you, including you, have done nothing more than lash out emotionally. There is no logic in most of the responses in this thread..

You have it all backwards- there was and is no logic in the premise of your thread.

You started the thread whining, and you continue to whine.

Apparently you had children- hopefully you appreciate them and they appreciate you.

Stop whining about having to pay for them.

Why do you all persist in turning this personal? Perhaps because you can't defeat the logic presented and going personal is your only recourse.

This from the foul mouthed idiot who attacks everyone who disagrees with him- like this:

Are you fucking dense or what? This is about AFTER CONCEPTION you stupid motherfucker.

You don't want it to be personal- stop personally attacking everyone else.

Don't be so sensitive. Bitch

Says the guy starting a tread crying about men having to man up if they help create a child.

 

[Care4all]

You want complete control over the entire situation (pregnancy, life & death) then you should foot the entire bill.

Period

You knew ahead of time, if you got her pregnant, then you would be responsible for the next 18 years and HOPEFULLY for the rest of YOUR CHILD'S life.

If you didn't want her to have the only ''say'' in her pregnancy within her body, then as has been said many times, you should have used protection, to protect yourself from being in this predicament.

BEFORE abortion was legal, if you got a girl pregnant, you married her or guaranteed, paid child support... now you have a 10% plus chance that she may choose not to have her and your baby. Count yourself lucky I suppose, her and the baby to be, not so much...

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

You want complete control over the entire situation (pregnancy, life & death) then you should foot the entire bill.

Period

You knew ahead of time, if you got her pregnant, then you would be responsible for the next 18 years and HOPEFULLY for the rest of YOUR CHILD'S life.

If you didn't want her to have the only ''say'' in her pregnancy within her body, then as has been said many times, you should have used protection, to protect yourself from being in this predicament.

BEFORE abortion was legal, if you got a girl pregnant, you married her or guaranteed, paid child support... now you have a 10% plus chance that she may choose not to have her and your baby. Count yourself lucky I suppose, her and the baby to be, not so much...

Does the first paragraph apply to the mothers as well or do they get a pass if they kill the child?

And I like how almost every single lib in this thread makes it personal. My wife & kids are not so lucky eh? What ever happened to family is out of bounds? Yet almost ALL OF YOU LEFTIES have gone there

 

[Borillar]

BTW GT.

I raised my girls for several years when my xwife didn't want them anymore. I asked for NO MONEY & received none. She later expressed a desire for me to pay child support during the time I had them.

Been there too, Gramps. I know where you're coming from.

 

[Care4all]

You want complete control over the entire situation (pregnancy, life & death) then you should foot the entire bill.

Period

You knew ahead of time, if you got her pregnant, then you would be responsible for the next 18 years and HOPEFULLY for the rest of YOUR CHILD'S life.

If you didn't want her to have the only ''say'' in her pregnancy within her body, then as has been said many times, you should have used protection, to protect yourself from being in this predicament.

BEFORE abortion was legal, if you got a girl pregnant, you married her or guaranteed, paid child support... now you have a 10% plus chance that she may choose not to have her and your baby. Count yourself lucky I suppose, her and the baby to be, not so much...

Does the first paragraph apply to the mothers as well or do they get a pass if they kill the child?

And I like how almost every single lib in this thread makes it personal. My wife & kids are not so lucky eh? What ever happened to family is out of bounds? Yet almost ALL OF YOU LEFTIES have gone there

She and the father get a "financial" pass.... if you think what the father will pay her in child support is even close to being the costs of raising his child, you got a lot more to learn in life.

As far as what else has been said in this thread, about this type of situation and attacking your family for it or whatever you are talking about, I have not read the thread gramps, I only responded to your first post and am now trying to skim through it.

I'm sorry you and your family are being attacked if that is truly the case!

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Why the he will?

I disagree. Man up and pay support and raise your kids, deadbeat daddies of America.

Auto correct

Anyhow this has nothing to do with deadbeat dads. This is about fairplay between men & women.

If a woman can kill the child the man should have the option to walk away as well.

Your ignorance of the law is exceeded only by your stupidity.

You're attempting – and failing – to compare two completely different legal doctrines, one having nothing to do with the other.

A woman's right to decide whether to have a child or not is safeguarded from state interference by the protected liberty of privacy.

The state requiring a non-custodial parent to pay child support violates no protected liberties of that parent, where the courts have consistently held that child support laws comport with the Constitution.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

You want complete control over the entire situation (pregnancy, life & death) then you should foot the entire bill.

Period

You knew ahead of time, if you got her pregnant, then you would be responsible for the next 18 years and HOPEFULLY for the rest of YOUR CHILD'S life.

If you didn't want her to have the only ''say'' in her pregnancy within her body, then as has been said many times, you should have used protection, to protect yourself from being in this predicament.

BEFORE abortion was legal, if you got a girl pregnant, you married her or guaranteed, paid child support... now you have a 10% plus chance that she may choose not to have her and your baby. Count yourself lucky I suppose, her and the baby to be, not so much...

Does the first paragraph apply to the mothers as well or do they get a pass if they kill the child?

And I like how almost every single lib in this thread makes it personal. My wife & kids are not so lucky eh? What ever happened to family is out of bounds? Yet almost ALL OF YOU LEFTIES have gone there

She and the father get a "financial" pass.... if you think what the father will pay her in child support is even close to being the costs of raising his child, you got a lot more to learn in life.

As far as what else has been said in this thread, about this type of situation and attacking your family for it or whatever you are talking about, I have not read the thread gramps, I only responded to your first post and am now trying to skim through it.

I'm sorry you and your family are being attacked if that is truly the case!

I know what it costs to raise children. I raised both of my girls. And my apologies if I misinterpreted you first post.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

You know, we might have less of an issue with this if people could close their damn legs, or at least respect the fact that they have the ability to create another human being. It really does come down to being sexually responsible. I understand that it feels good. I understand that a probable majority of adults are so scientifically illiterate that they think sex exists solely for their personal pleasure (as demonstrated in the science section thread). I understand that accepting the fact that it's no longer about you and what's best for your short term personal happiness when you create a child is pretty much the direct opposite of liberal thinking. None of this actually excuses you from using copious birth control if you do choose to waste your generative powers fucking random strangers.

 

[Valerie]

Does the first paragraph apply to the mothers as well or do they get a pass if they kill the child?

And I like how almost every single lib in this thread makes it personal. My wife & kids are not so lucky eh? What ever happened to family is out of bounds? Yet almost ALL OF YOU LEFTIES have gone there

who attacked your family?? care4all was clearly speaking hypothetical...


BEFORE abortion was legal, if you got a girl pregnant, you married her or guaranteed, paid child support... now you have a 10% plus chance that she may choose not to have her and your baby. Count yourself lucky I suppose, her and the baby to be, not so much...

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Does the first paragraph apply to the mothers as well or do they get a pass if they kill the child?

And I like how almost every single lib in this thread makes it personal. My wife & kids are not so lucky eh? What ever happened to family is out of bounds? Yet almost ALL OF YOU LEFTIES have gone there

who attacked your family?? care4all was clearly speaking hypothetical...


BEFORE abortion was legal, if you got a girl pregnant, you married her or guaranteed, paid child support... now you have a 10% plus chance that she may choose not to have her and your baby. Count yourself lucky I suppose, her and the baby to be, not so much...

I apologized to her as I thought I may have misunderstood her post. It was my mistake as I now get her point.

 

[bodecea]

I get your point. You don't get mine. Neither you nor I have shredded anything. If we had the discussion would have ended.

I get your point. You believe that financial responsibility should be based on a man's ability to control a woman's body. If he can't force her to bear a child she doesn't want or force her to abort a child he doesn't want, he shouldn't have to pay.

You're simply wrong, with your entire argument based on a series of nested fallacies.

First, your basis of a man's obligation is a fallacy. You've posited that the basis is his choice. When in reality, its the existence of his child. If the child exists, his obligation exists. His consent in the birth of child is irrelevant. It has no bearing nor effect on his obligation.

Simply destroying your entire argument. Completely and utterly. But lets kick a dead horse, shall we?

Second, both the man and the woman have the same control over their own bodies. A man can choose not to carry a child to term in his body. And so can a woman. You're insisting that unless a man has control over a WOMAN'S body, he doesn't have freedom or choice. That's nonsense. He has freedom and choice over his own actions and the use of his own body.

'Freedom' isn't the authority to control someone else. That bastardizes the very meaning of the word 'freedom'. If a man wants to choose if he will carry a child to term in his own body, he should get pregnant. But at no point does he get to make that choice for anyone else.

Killing your argument again.

Your first post is 100% wrong.

You don't get my point.

Let's try again shall we?

Just like a woman, a man should have the ability to walk away from a child prior to birth. Period.
The woman can & does this for ANY reason she wants by killing the child. I'm simply suggesting that prior to birth if the man doesn't want the child he too should be able to exercise that same decision by signing his rights away as a father. It has nothing to do with the decision the woman makes.

What's good for the goose and all that shit. Equal treatment under the law.

So let's get this straight

You got a woman pregnant. You tell her to get an abortion and she says ...NO

So you just sign your rights away and walk Scott free and the taxpayers pick up the tab?

I would never tell a woman to get an abortion idiot.
And all options don't end in abortion or taxpayer money. Only the irresponsible ones do

I don't see any situation where you can walk away from responsibility for your child

Having raised a daughter, I cannot possibly argue that it was a bad thing in any way....why would anyone do that?

 

[bodecea]

You want complete control over the entire situation (pregnancy, life & death) then you should foot the entire bill.

Period

You knew ahead of time, if you got her pregnant, then you would be responsible for the next 18 years and HOPEFULLY for the rest of YOUR CHILD'S life.

If you didn't want her to have the only ''say'' in her pregnancy within her body, then as has been said many times, you should have used protection, to protect yourself from being in this predicament.

BEFORE abortion was legal, if you got a girl pregnant, you married her or guaranteed, paid child support... now you have a 10% plus chance that she may choose not to have her and your baby. Count yourself lucky I suppose, her and the baby to be, not so much...

Does the first paragraph apply to the mothers as well or do they get a pass if they kill the child?

And I like how almost every single lib in this thread makes it personal. My wife & kids are not so lucky eh? What ever happened to family is out of bounds? Yet almost ALL OF YOU LEFTIES have gone there

So...you were trolling....because you brought your personal situation into this. This thread was all a trap?

Then I would recommend everyone pull out of this thread since it looks to be Grannie setting a trap to report people for talking about the very thing he brought to this discussion.

 

[-S-]

You want complete control over the entire situation (pregnancy, life & death) then you should foot the entire bill.

Period

You knew ahead of time, if you got her pregnant, then you would be responsible for the next 18 years and HOPEFULLY for the rest of YOUR CHILD'S life.

If you didn't want her to have the only ''say'' in her pregnancy within her body, then as has been said many times, you should have used protection, to protect yourself from being in this predicament.

BEFORE abortion was legal, if you got a girl pregnant, you married her or guaranteed, paid child support... now you have a 10% plus chance that she may choose not to have her and your baby. Count yourself lucky I suppose, her and the baby to be, not so much...

Does the first paragraph apply to the mothers as well or do they get a pass if they kill the child?

And I like how almost every single lib in this thread makes it personal. My wife & kids are not so lucky eh? What ever happened to family is out of bounds? Yet almost ALL OF YOU LEFTIES have gone there

So...you were trolling....because you brought your personal situation into this. This thread was all a trap?

Then I would recommend everyone pull out of this thread since it looks to be Grannie setting a trap to report people for talking about the very thing he brought to this discussion.

Ugh. I hate getting reported for stupid crap. Thank God I didn't post in this thread frequently enough to fall for it.

That's really low, baiting people like that.

If that was your intention, get a life Gramps.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

You want complete control over the entire situation (pregnancy, life & death) then you should foot the entire bill.

Period

You knew ahead of time, if you got her pregnant, then you would be responsible for the next 18 years and HOPEFULLY for the rest of YOUR CHILD'S life.

If you didn't want her to have the only ''say'' in her pregnancy within her body, then as has been said many times, you should have used protection, to protect yourself from being in this predicament.

BEFORE abortion was legal, if you got a girl pregnant, you married her or guaranteed, paid child support... now you have a 10% plus chance that she may choose not to have her and your baby. Count yourself lucky I suppose, her and the baby to be, not so much...

Does the first paragraph apply to the mothers as well or do they get a pass if they kill the child?

And I like how almost every single lib in this thread makes it personal. My wife & kids are not so lucky eh? What ever happened to family is out of bounds? Yet almost ALL OF YOU LEFTIES have gone there

So...you were trolling....because you brought your personal situation into this. This thread was all a trap?

Then I would recommend everyone pull out of this thread since it looks to be Grannie setting a trap to report people for talking about the very thing he brought to this discussion.

Ugh. I hate getting reported for stupid crap. Thank God I didn't post in this thread frequently enough to fall for it.

That's really low, baiting people like that.

If that was your intention, get a life Gramps.

I have reported no one. That's not my gig. Bodecea just can't make valid points so this silly shit is what we deal with.
Interesting enough is that as a man hater & dyke lover she really has no place in this conversation. She literally has 0 experience on the matter