If nk fires at guam

[HenryBHough]

In the circumstance, consider Congress will do nothing other than shake a stern finger. Until they (Congress) feel the impact of a NK missile they will continue to do nothing. Even then.......oh, wait, they won't be around to do anything. I guess that would be progress or ff sort.....

 

[AsherN]

You are principle of a school. Snipers are outside while school is in session. Snipers are hitting trees, some benches, ricochets off bike racks but none hit the school itself. Head sniper uses a bullhorn and threatens to start hitting the windows because you hollered out the front door to cease terrorizing the school with threats. It pissed him off, so now he may or may not replace real bullets with the rubber ones he was experimenting with to see how much damage could be done with rubber..and how far those rubber bullets can travel.

Sniper then claims he will start shooting at the gym in a few days.

What do you do to protect the students? What should be done?

Same damn thing going on right now, just a different scenario.

You shoot sniper, he dies, end of the drama.

You bomb NK, best case scenario, 100s of thousands in SK die. Worst case scenario, WWIII.

Yeah, equivalent scenarios.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

So how many are you going to give them?

They already had 17 missile tests under Trump.

So how many more are you going to give them?

 

[grhqofb5]

So, if North Korea is planning on firing a missile "toward Guam," presumably meaning south and from its mainland, I fail to see how it plans on having that missile's flight path avoid the airspace of both South Korea and Japan. Perhaps its launched from the far southwestern area of NK. Even then its a close call, and would have to take a fairly hard left to go in the direction of Guam.

Now, I understand that countries have a need to test their military capabilities, which may include missiles, but I cannot recall another country in recent time actually firing a missile that crossed through the airspace of its neighbor. Seems to me like that may be interpreted as the good ole' "act of war," that people keep referencing.

 

[Care4all]

Did they INTEND to miss? Was it a warning shot? Did we know they were going to miss before they missed?

Was it simply a warning shot?

Stop repeating yourself...
And yes it would be an act of war.

A shot across the bow is an act of war?

If a police officer is confronting a man with a gun and that man fires a "warning shot" is the officer unreasonable fearing for his safety? Is he reasonable unloading his gun into the perp?

And what happens if these "warning shots" actually hit something? Why is one an act of war and the other not?

one kills and one does not. a warning shot doesn't kill.

One doesn't need to kill to commit an act of war.

any real life examples over the years?

 

[Care4all]

So, if North Korea is planning on firing a missile "toward Guam," presumably meaning south and from its mainland, I fail to see how it plans on having that missile's flight path avoid the airspace of both South Korea and Japan. Perhaps its launched from the far southwestern area of NK. Even then its a close call, and would have to take a fairly hard left to go in the direction of Guam.

Now, I understand that countries have a need to test their military capabilities, which may include missiles, but I cannot recall another country in recent time actually firing a missile that crossed through the airspace of its neighbor. Seems to me like that may be interpreted as the good ole' "act of war," that people keep referencing.

up in to the atmosphere then dropped down? Atmospheric space is probably not a country's airspace??

btw, I do not believe north korea will do it

 

[Hum Dinger]

Even if they miss, it's an act of war, is it not?

Interesting question

Assuming the missile is armed, it's an act of war whether it hit's Guam or not. If it's unarmed missile, I would say it's a provocation. However, determining whether it's armed and failed or just a dummy payload might be problematic.

If missiles were detected headed toward Guam, the US would retaliate just as if those missiles were headed toward the California coast. Guam is a US territory with over 150,000 US citizens. It is also the home base of the US Seventh Fleet and a number of military commands.

Even if they miss, it's an act of war, is it not?

Not really.. Might just be testing their missiles and splashing them in Intl waters. He can get our WHOLE Pac fleet out there to watch them for them. See the Guam thread I started in Curr Events for a theory on this..

There would be no way to determine whether the missiles carried a nuclear payload or dummy warheads. I doubt the military would take a wait see position.

Doesn't matter if we attempt an intercept. He just wants to know where they end up. Because the whole NK program is halted if they can't refine the guidance and accuracy in flight. Kim Chee has no missile range with radars and optics and a task force of Aegis cruisers.

Intercepting a missile in International Waters, could be viewed as illegal and an act of War. The US would not tolerate a nation intercepting its missiles. The US has no legal right to destroy fired North Korean missiles.

The U.S. and NoKo are in a state of war. We have every right to shoot down their missiles in international waters and anywhere else.

 

[grhqofb5]

So, if North Korea is planning on firing a missile "toward Guam," presumably meaning south and from its mainland, I fail to see how it plans on having that missile's flight path avoid the airspace of both South Korea and Japan. Perhaps its launched from the far southwestern area of NK. Even then its a close call, and would have to take a fairly hard left to go in the direction of Guam.

Now, I understand that countries have a need to test their military capabilities, which may include missiles, but I cannot recall another country in recent time actually firing a missile that crossed through the airspace of its neighbor. Seems to me like that may be interpreted as the good ole' "act of war," that people keep referencing.

up in to the atmosphere then dropped down? Atmospheric space is probably not a country's airspace??

btw, I do not believe north korea will do it

Are these missiles ICBMs? So yes, it if you get into "space" (which is somewhere around 60 miles up), then perhaps that's not a violation. It would be nice if the vaunted news agencies that we rely of so dearly for our information would point that out, instead of saying that the missiles will be fired over Japan.

 

[Flopper]

So, if North Korea is planning on firing a missile "toward Guam," presumably meaning south and from its mainland, I fail to see how it plans on having that missile's flight path avoid the airspace of both South Korea and Japan. Perhaps its launched from the far southwestern area of NK. Even then its a close call, and would have to take a fairly hard left to go in the direction of Guam.

Now, I understand that countries have a need to test their military capabilities, which may include missiles, but I cannot recall another country in recent time actually firing a missile that crossed through the airspace of its neighbor. Seems to me like that may be interpreted as the good ole' "act of war," that people keep referencing.

An ICBM will follow an elliptical path starting from its launch point. For targets thousands of miles away, the missile will reach an attitude of 750 to 1,000 miles, well into outer space and above the airspace of any nation. Even so, violating air space at that altitude is academic. Satellites fly above the air spaces of other nations everyday.

The US, Britain, and France have tested missile firing in the Pacific targeting island possessions or those of friendly powers. Russia has enough land mass that it can test them over land. So far there's been no need to fire test ICBMs toward other countries. NK has a problem since it has no possession in the Pacific and no friends that do.

 

[Avatar4321]

Even if they miss, it's an act of war, is it not?

Interesting question

Assuming the missile is armed, it's an act of war whether it hit's Guam or not. If it's unarmed missile, I would say it's a provocation. However, determining whether it's armed and failed or just a dummy payload might be problematic.

If missiles were detected headed toward Guam, the US would retaliate just as if those missiles were headed toward the California coast. Guam is a US territory with over 150,000 US citizens. It is also the home base of the US Seventh Fleet and a number of military commands.

Even if they miss, it's an act of war, is it not?

Not really.. Might just be testing their missiles and splashing them in Intl waters. He can get our WHOLE Pac fleet out there to watch them for them. See the Guam thread I started in Curr Events for a theory on this..

There would be no way to determine whether the missiles carried a nuclear payload or dummy warheads. I doubt the military would take a wait see position.

Doesn't matter if we attempt an intercept. He just wants to know where they end up. Because the whole NK program is halted if they can't refine the guidance and accuracy in flight. Kim Chee has no missile range with radars and optics and a task force of Aegis cruisers.

Intercepting a missile in International Waters, could be viewed as illegal and an act of War. The US would not tolerate a nation intercepting its missiles. The US has no legal right to destroy fired North Korean missiles.

Are you joking? Firing a missile at us isn't an act of war, but us firing the middle down before I reaches us is???

That's insane.

 

[Hum Dinger]

So it appears that the doves on this thread think:

It's better to let NoKo develop a large arsenal of nuclear missiles and go to war with them, if needed, at that time.

Instead of going to war with them now, when they have no nuclear missiles.

 

[Hum Dinger]

So, if North Korea is planning on firing a missile "toward Guam," presumably meaning south and from its mainland, I fail to see how it plans on having that missile's flight path avoid the airspace of both South Korea and Japan. Perhaps its launched from the far southwestern area of NK. Even then its a close call, and would have to take a fairly hard left to go in the direction of Guam.

Now, I understand that countries have a need to test their military capabilities, which may include missiles, but I cannot recall another country in recent time actually firing a missile that crossed through the airspace of its neighbor. Seems to me like that may be interpreted as the good ole' "act of war," that people keep referencing.

up in to the atmosphere then dropped down? Atmospheric space is probably not a country's airspace??

btw, I do not believe north korea will do it

You're probably right. NoKo will not do it. Everyone will believe the crisis is over.

Meanwhile, NoKo will develop a large arsenal of nuclear missiles.

Basically, NoKo has put us in a position that we have to attack them - and the sooner the better.

 

[Flopper]

So, if North Korea is planning on firing a missile "toward Guam," presumably meaning south and from its mainland, I fail to see how it plans on having that missile's flight path avoid the airspace of both South Korea and Japan. Perhaps its launched from the far southwestern area of NK. Even then its a close call, and would have to take a fairly hard left to go in the direction of Guam.

Now, I understand that countries have a need to test their military capabilities, which may include missiles, but I cannot recall another country in recent time actually firing a missile that crossed through the airspace of its neighbor. Seems to me like that may be interpreted as the good ole' "act of war," that people keep referencing.

up in to the atmosphere then dropped down? Atmospheric space is probably not a country's airspace??

btw, I do not believe north korea will do it

Are these missiles ICBMs? So yes, it if you get into "space" (which is somewhere around 60 miles up), then perhaps that's not a violation. It would be nice if the vaunted news agencies that we rely of so dearly for our information would point that out, instead of saying that the missiles will be fired over Japan.

Airspace is defined as the portion of the atmosphere controlled by a country above its territory.

Nations send spy satellites with impunity over many other nations. Russia and other countries for example has had optical and radar-based spy satellites for ages. There are probably at least a half dozen countries that have sent spy satellites over the US. The US probably has satellites flying over every potential enemy, including NK.

 

[Avatar4321]

Stop repeating yourself...
And yes it would be an act of war.

A shot across the bow is an act of war?

If a police officer is confronting a man with a gun and that man fires a "warning shot" is the officer unreasonable fearing for his safety? Is he reasonable unloading his gun into the perp?

And what happens if these "warning shots" actually hit something? Why is one an act of war and the other not?

one kills and one does not. a warning shot doesn't kill.

One doesn't need to kill to commit an act of war.

any real life examples over the years?

Walking over the border of a neighbor with an army.

Firing a missile of unknown power at or through neighboring foreign territory without consent.

 

[Flopper]

So it appears that the doves on this thread think:

It's better to let NoKo develop a large arsenal of nuclear missiles and go to war with them, if needed, at that time.

Instead of going to war with them now, when they have no nuclear missiles.

I think the idea is it is better to let them develop nuclear weapons if sanctions fail and negotiate with them as a nuclear power rather start a war that will end with millions of causalities and trillions of dollars in damages. We did this with Russia for 40 years without a nuclear exchange. If NK is to achieve the status they hope for, it can only come through the development a nuclear threat.

Given the size of NK, the US will eventually be able to shoot down any ICBM launches which will limit their threat to South Korea, thus reducing the NK power to negotiate anything. This is probably a 10 year window of opportunity for NK.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Our anti-missile defence missiles have been demonstrated to be successful only 50% of the time. If our attempt to shoot down four NK missiles fails, it would be a victory for NK, and an exposed weakness of the US. Such weakness would embolden Kim, and could lead to another arms race involving our allies, and Russia, who would, quite naturally, assume that we are not strong enough to protect the N. Pacific. Trump would be a fool to take the chance of exposing our defence failure, but he keeps talking himself into a corner.

The part that really gets me is that NK has done absolutely nothing that is provocative of war. All they have done is test missiles, and bad mouth the US. In my experience, badmouthing the US is not a reason for war. If it was, we would have invaded the Philippines by now.

 

[flacaltenn]

So, if North Korea is planning on firing a missile "toward Guam," presumably meaning south and from its mainland, I fail to see how it plans on having that missile's flight path avoid the airspace of both South Korea and Japan. Perhaps its launched from the far southwestern area of NK. Even then its a close call, and would have to take a fairly hard left to go in the direction of Guam.

Now, I understand that countries have a need to test their military capabilities, which may include missiles, but I cannot recall another country in recent time actually firing a missile that crossed through the airspace of its neighbor. Seems to me like that may be interpreted as the good ole' "act of war," that people keep referencing.

up in to the atmosphere then dropped down? Atmospheric space is probably not a country's airspace??

btw, I do not believe north korea will do it

Are these missiles ICBMs? So yes, it if you get into "space" (which is somewhere around 60 miles up), then perhaps that's not a violation. It would be nice if the vaunted news agencies that we rely of so dearly for our information would point that out, instead of saying that the missiles will be fired over Japan.

The Lil KimChee specifically gave us the model numbers. They Could have been ICBMs, but he's "telegraphed" that these are Medium Range (or extended Med range) missiles. That's part of the clues here as to what he what wants us to do about it. He wants to know how accurate they are. And if we're not ultra careful -- we'll help him figure out where they land..

 

[radical right]

Now, I understand that countries have a need to test their military capabilities, which may include missiles, but I cannot recall another country in recent time actually firing a missile that crossed through the airspace of its neighbor. Seems to me like that may be interpreted as the good ole' "act of war," that people keep referencing.

We're flying U-2's over N. Korea in their " airspace" Should Kim consider that an "act of war?"

 

[Care4all]

A shot across the bow is an act of war?

If a police officer is confronting a man with a gun and that man fires a "warning shot" is the officer unreasonable fearing for his safety? Is he reasonable unloading his gun into the perp?

And what happens if these "warning shots" actually hit something? Why is one an act of war and the other not?

one kills and one does not. a warning shot doesn't kill.

One doesn't need to kill to commit an act of war.

any real life examples over the years?

Walking over the border of a neighbor with an army.

Firing a missile of unknown power at or through neighboring foreign territory without consent.

In our history. has the USA started a war with another Nation due to an action that killed no one, is what I wanted to know....? I'm not sure?

 

[Care4all]

Nuclear war heads sitting on Cuba, facing our direction comes to mind, and even under those dire circumstances President Kennedy managed to get us out of that conundrum without fire and fury....God bless his soul!

Proverbs 24:6 “for by wise guidance you can wage your war, and in abundance of counselors there is victory.”

Let's just hope our dear leader is seeking the Godly advice above!