If nk fires at guam

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

So, anytime the US fires a missile in the direction of a nation in International Waters, it's a justification for those nations to attack the US? Boy, American Warmongers are loony as hell.

We don't fire missiles at other countries as a test. We use ballistic missile test ranges such as in the Marshall Islands.

NK to my knowledge has no possessions in the Pacific to use as a target. However, using possessions of other countries as a target would be an act of war.

Oh Gawd, y'all Warmongers are laughable. The US routinely test-fires missiles in the direction of nations in International Waters. Does that mean they're firing at those nations? And does that then justify those nations attacking the US? North Korea has not said it wants to attack Guam. Y'all Warmongers are just lying us into another war. You're desperately trying to concoct a False Flag event. To be more blunt, you're full of SHITE.

For the third time, we don't!

Your lies are getting very tiresome.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

So merely test-firing a missile in the direction of a nation, in International Waters, is now an 'Act of War? Ok, that sounds absolutely insane. I guess numerous nations are now justified in attacking the US. What a crazy crazy world we're living in.

Fourth time. We don't!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

So, if North Korea is planning on firing a missile "toward Guam," presumably meaning south and from its mainland, I fail to see how it plans on having that missile's flight path avoid the airspace of both South Korea and Japan. Perhaps its launched from the far southwestern area of NK. Even then its a close call, and would have to take a fairly hard left to go in the direction of Guam.

Now, I understand that countries have a need to test their military capabilities, which may include missiles, but I cannot recall another country in recent time actually firing a missile that crossed through the airspace of its neighbor. Seems to me like that may be interpreted as the good ole' "act of war," that people keep referencing.

An ICBM will follow an elliptical path starting from its launch point. For targets thousands of miles away, the missile will reach an attitude of 750 to 1,000 miles, well into outer space and above the airspace of any nation. Even so, violating air space at that altitude is academic. Satellites fly above the air spaces of other nations everyday.

The US, Britain, and France have tested missile firing in the Pacific targeting island possessions or those of friendly powers. Russia has enough land mass that it can test them over land. So far there's been no need to fire test ICBMs toward other countries. NK has a problem since it has no possession in the Pacific and no friends that do.

Ballistic, not elliptical! Failed math and physics, huh?

 

[Flopper]

If a police officer is confronting a man with a gun and that man fires a "warning shot" is the officer unreasonable fearing for his safety? Is he reasonable unloading his gun into the perp?

And what happens if these "warning shots" actually hit something? Why is one an act of war and the other not?

one kills and one does not. a warning shot doesn't kill.

One doesn't need to kill to commit an act of war.

any real life examples over the years?

Walking over the border of a neighbor with an army.

Firing a missile of unknown power at or through neighboring foreign territory without consent.

In our history. has the USA started a war with another Nation due to an action that killed no one, is what I wanted to know....? I'm not sure?

If you are including military actions, yes. President Ronald Reagan, citing the threat posed to American nationals on the Caribbean nation of Grenada by that nation’s Marxist regime, orders the Marines to invade and secure their safety.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

one kills and one does not. a warning shot doesn't kill.

One doesn't need to kill to commit an act of war.

any real life examples over the years?

Walking over the border of a neighbor with an army.

Firing a missile of unknown power at or through neighboring foreign territory without consent.

In our history. has the USA started a war with another Nation due to an action that killed no one, is what I wanted to know....? I'm not sure?

If you are including military actions, yes. President Ronald Reagan, citing the threat posed to American nationals on the Caribbean nation of Grenada by that nation’s Marxist regime, orders the Marines to invade and secure their safety.

You realize the Army, Navy, and Air Force had a little to do with that operation.

 

[Flopper]

So, if North Korea is planning on firing a missile "toward Guam," presumably meaning south and from its mainland, I fail to see how it plans on having that missile's flight path avoid the airspace of both South Korea and Japan. Perhaps its launched from the far southwestern area of NK. Even then its a close call, and would have to take a fairly hard left to go in the direction of Guam.

Now, I understand that countries have a need to test their military capabilities, which may include missiles, but I cannot recall another country in recent time actually firing a missile that crossed through the airspace of its neighbor. Seems to me like that may be interpreted as the good ole' "act of war," that people keep referencing.

An ICBM will follow an elliptical path starting from its launch point. For targets thousands of miles away, the missile will reach an attitude of 750 to 1,000 miles, well into outer space and above the airspace of any nation. Even so, violating air space at that altitude is academic. Satellites fly above the air spaces of other nations everyday.

The US, Britain, and France have tested missile firing in the Pacific targeting island possessions or those of friendly powers. Russia has enough land mass that it can test them over land. So far there's been no need to fire test ICBMs toward other countries. NK has a problem since it has no possession in the Pacific and no friends that do.

Ballistic, not elliptical! Failed math and physics, huh?

An ICBM follows an elliptical path starting from its launch point
until impact. A ballistic path is an arch of an ellipse, with the center of the earth as the closest focus. A parabola would be an approximation.
https://arxiv.org/pdf/physics/0310049.pdf

 

[Flopper]

One doesn't need to kill to commit an act of war.

any real life examples over the years?

Walking over the border of a neighbor with an army.

Firing a missile of unknown power at or through neighboring foreign territory without consent.

In our history. has the USA started a war with another Nation due to an action that killed no one, is what I wanted to know....? I'm not sure?

If you are including military actions, yes. President Ronald Reagan, citing the threat posed to American nationals on the Caribbean nation of Grenada by that nation’s Marxist regime, orders the Marines to invade and secure their safety.

You realize the Army, Navy, and Air Force had a little to do with that operation.

Of Course.

 

[Flopper]

Even if they miss, it's an act of war, is it not?

Interesting question

Assuming the missile is armed, it's an act of war whether it hit's Guam or not. If it's unarmed missile, I would say it's a provocation. However, determining whether it's armed and failed or just a dummy payload might be problematic.

If missiles were detected headed toward Guam, the US would retaliate just as if those missiles were headed toward the California coast. Guam is a US territory with over 150,000 US citizens. It is also the home base of the US Seventh Fleet and a number of military commands.

Not really.. Might just be testing their missiles and splashing them in Intl waters. He can get our WHOLE Pac fleet out there to watch them for them. See the Guam thread I started in Curr Events for a theory on this..

There would be no way to determine whether the missiles carried a nuclear payload or dummy warheads. I doubt the military would take a wait see position.

Doesn't matter if we attempt an intercept. He just wants to know where they end up. Because the whole NK program is halted if they can't refine the guidance and accuracy in flight. Kim Chee has no missile range with radars and optics and a task force of Aegis cruisers.

Intercepting a missile in International Waters, could be viewed as illegal and an act of War. The US would not tolerate a nation intercepting its missiles. The US has no legal right to destroy fired North Korean missiles.

Are you joking? Firing a missile at us isn't an act of war, but us firing the middle down before I reaches us is???

That's insane.

North Korea hasn't attacked the US. I know y'all Warmongers want that fantasy to become a reality, but it hasn't happened. It has every right to test-fire missiles. It in no way is an 'Act of War.' In contrast, it would be illegal and Act of War, for the US to intercept and destroy a North Korean test-fired missile. Try intercepting a test-fired US missile, and see if the US doesn't immediately declare it an 'Act of War.'

Well that depends on where they are fired and what they hit. 4 missiles headed toward a US military base can well be interpreted as an act of war. Kim Jong-un has the whole damn pacific to test his missiles. All he has to do is put a boat in the target zone with radar.

A missile fired from NK would cross the Mariana Chain which is administered by the US in it's path to Guam, a US territory. At a minimum it is an infringement of a US territory and since it's a military weapon carrying unknown ordinance, it should certainly be considered an act of war.

 

[flacaltenn]

Interesting question

Assuming the missile is armed, it's an act of war whether it hit's Guam or not. If it's unarmed missile, I would say it's a provocation. However, determining whether it's armed and failed or just a dummy payload might be problematic.

If missiles were detected headed toward Guam, the US would retaliate just as if those missiles were headed toward the California coast. Guam is a US territory with over 150,000 US citizens. It is also the home base of the US Seventh Fleet and a number of military commands.
There would be no way to determine whether the missiles carried a nuclear payload or dummy warheads. I doubt the military would take a wait see position.

Doesn't matter if we attempt an intercept. He just wants to know where they end up. Because the whole NK program is halted if they can't refine the guidance and accuracy in flight. Kim Chee has no missile range with radars and optics and a task force of Aegis cruisers.

Intercepting a missile in International Waters, could be viewed as illegal and an act of War. The US would not tolerate a nation intercepting its missiles. The US has no legal right to destroy fired North Korean missiles.

Are you joking? Firing a missile at us isn't an act of war, but us firing the middle down before I reaches us is???

That's insane.

North Korea hasn't attacked the US. I know y'all Warmongers want that fantasy to become a reality, but it hasn't happened. It has every right to test-fire missiles. It in no way is an 'Act of War.' In contrast, it would be illegal and Act of War, for the US to intercept and destroy a North Korean test-fired missile. Try intercepting a test-fired US missile, and see if the US doesn't immediately declare it an 'Act of War.'

Well that depends on where they are fired and what they hit. 4 missiles headed toward a US military base can well be interpreted as an act of war. Kim Jong-un has the whole damn pacific to test his missiles. All he has to do is put a boat in the target zone with radar.

It's a bit more than one boat with a radar. A missile range can track stuff over the horizon and tell more about guidance and accuracy. And that's a pretty big boat that you need. AND it telegraphs your intended splash site so that it draws attention.

What would be easier than having the anti-Trump media leak the actual splash zones from OUR navy following them in? Guaranteed -- we're not defending Guam with just ONE anti-missile radar equipped Cruiser. AND you have the Land-Based larger radar and Optical tracking that on Guam.

I think he's hoping we'll help him figure out if his Med. Range stuff is accurate at 2200 miles..

 

[radical right]

It's a bit more than one boat with a radar. A missile range can track stuff over the horizon and tell more about guidance and accuracy. And that's a pretty big boat that you need. AND it telegraphs your intended splash site so that it draws attention.

What would be easier than having the anti-Trump media leak the actual splash zones from OUR navy following them in? Guaranteed -- we're not defending Guam with just ONE anti-missile radar equipped Cruiser. AND you have the Land-Based larger radar and Optical tracking that on Guam.

I think he's hoping we'll help him figure out if his Med. Range stuff is accurate at 2200 miles..

Have everybody on the right grown stupid? With the advent of GPS, not only can it guide missiles to within feet of their target, it can track a missle within feet of its flight path. Welcome to the 21st century, put away your 8-track and VHS tapes.

 

[Flopper]

Doesn't matter if we attempt an intercept. He just wants to know where they end up. Because the whole NK program is halted if they can't refine the guidance and accuracy in flight. Kim Chee has no missile range with radars and optics and a task force of Aegis cruisers.

Intercepting a missile in International Waters, could be viewed as illegal and an act of War. The US would not tolerate a nation intercepting its missiles. The US has no legal right to destroy fired North Korean missiles.

Are you joking? Firing a missile at us isn't an act of war, but us firing the middle down before I reaches us is???

That's insane.

North Korea hasn't attacked the US. I know y'all Warmongers want that fantasy to become a reality, but it hasn't happened. It has every right to test-fire missiles. It in no way is an 'Act of War.' In contrast, it would be illegal and Act of War, for the US to intercept and destroy a North Korean test-fired missile. Try intercepting a test-fired US missile, and see if the US doesn't immediately declare it an 'Act of War.'

Well that depends on where they are fired and what they hit. 4 missiles headed toward a US military base can well be interpreted as an act of war. Kim Jong-un has the whole damn pacific to test his missiles. All he has to do is put a boat in the target zone with radar.

It's a bit more than one boat with a radar. A missile range can track stuff over the horizon and tell more about guidance and accuracy. And that's a pretty big boat that you need. AND it telegraphs your intended splash site so that it draws attention.

What would be easier than having the anti-Trump media leak the actual splash zones from OUR navy following them in? Guaranteed -- we're not defending Guam with just ONE anti-missile radar equipped Cruiser. AND you have the Land-Based larger radar and Optical tracking that on Guam.

I think he's hoping we'll help him figure out if his Med. Range stuff is accurate at 2200 miles..

If a missile hits within 20 miles of Guam, it will be common knowledge real fast. Guam is a tourist destination with 4 large marina, fishing boats and a half dozen boat tours running daily, plus 2 commercial airports.

 

[flacaltenn]

Intercepting a missile in International Waters, could be viewed as illegal and an act of War. The US would not tolerate a nation intercepting its missiles. The US has no legal right to destroy fired North Korean missiles.

Are you joking? Firing a missile at us isn't an act of war, but us firing the middle down before I reaches us is???

That's insane.

North Korea hasn't attacked the US. I know y'all Warmongers want that fantasy to become a reality, but it hasn't happened. It has every right to test-fire missiles. It in no way is an 'Act of War.' In contrast, it would be illegal and Act of War, for the US to intercept and destroy a North Korean test-fired missile. Try intercepting a test-fired US missile, and see if the US doesn't immediately declare it an 'Act of War.'

Well that depends on where they are fired and what they hit. 4 missiles headed toward a US military base can well be interpreted as an act of war. Kim Jong-un has the whole damn pacific to test his missiles. All he has to do is put a boat in the target zone with radar.

It's a bit more than one boat with a radar. A missile range can track stuff over the horizon and tell more about guidance and accuracy. And that's a pretty big boat that you need. AND it telegraphs your intended splash site so that it draws attention.

What would be easier than having the anti-Trump media leak the actual splash zones from OUR navy following them in? Guaranteed -- we're not defending Guam with just ONE anti-missile radar equipped Cruiser. AND you have the Land-Based larger radar and Optical tracking that on Guam.

I think he's hoping we'll help him figure out if his Med. Range stuff is accurate at 2200 miles..

If a missile hits within 20 miles of Guam, it will be common knowledge real fast. Guam is a tourist destination with 4 large marina, fishing boats and a half dozen boat tours running daily, plus 2 commercial airports.

I think that what this cheesehead wants out of it. He doesn't have an extensive Missile testing range. He's literally telling us what missiles and where he's gonna put them. He even said --- "ring the island,, North South East and West" with 4 of them.

Won't be able to keep the press from finding out and VERIFYING where they landed for him.

 

[eagle1462010]

 

[Dschrute3]

So when the US test-fires its missiles in International Waters, it's a justification for other countries to attack the US? Because that's what American Warmongers are advocating in regards to North Korea. It isn't illegal to test-fire missiles in International Waters. I think American Warmongers are just getting way too desperate in trying to justify starting a war with North Korea. They're not making much sense at this point.

We don't . Thus endeth your rant.

True, unlike North Korea, the US actually shoots them at countries and kills Thousands. How many countries has the US bombed and invaded in the last 30-40yrs? How many has North Korea bombed and invaded?

 

[Dschrute3]

Interesting question

Assuming the missile is armed, it's an act of war whether it hit's Guam or not. If it's unarmed missile, I would say it's a provocation. However, determining whether it's armed and failed or just a dummy payload might be problematic.

If missiles were detected headed toward Guam, the US would retaliate just as if those missiles were headed toward the California coast. Guam is a US territory with over 150,000 US citizens. It is also the home base of the US Seventh Fleet and a number of military commands.
There would be no way to determine whether the missiles carried a nuclear payload or dummy warheads. I doubt the military would take a wait see position.

Doesn't matter if we attempt an intercept. He just wants to know where they end up. Because the whole NK program is halted if they can't refine the guidance and accuracy in flight. Kim Chee has no missile range with radars and optics and a task force of Aegis cruisers.

Intercepting a missile in International Waters, could be viewed as illegal and an act of War. The US would not tolerate a nation intercepting its missiles. The US has no legal right to destroy fired North Korean missiles.

Are you joking? Firing a missile at us isn't an act of war, but us firing the middle down before I reaches us is???

That's insane.

North Korea hasn't attacked the US. I know y'all Warmongers want that fantasy to become a reality, but it hasn't happened. It has every right to test-fire missiles. It in no way is an 'Act of War.' In contrast, it would be illegal and Act of War, for the US to intercept and destroy a North Korean test-fired missile. Try intercepting a test-fired US missile, and see if the US doesn't immediately declare it an 'Act of War.'

Well that depends on where they are fired and what they hit. 4 missiles headed toward a US military base can well be interpreted as an act of war. Kim Jong-un has the whole damn pacific to test his missiles. All he has to do is put a boat in the target zone with radar.

A missile fired from NK would cross the Mariana Chain which is administered by the US in it's path to Guam, a US territory. At a minimum it is an infringement of a US territory and since it's a military weapon carrying unknown ordinance, it should certainly be considered an act of war.

If the US intercepts and destroys a North Korean test-fired missile, that would be considered an Act of War. Just like a country intercepting and destroying a US test-fired missile would be.

 

[Dschrute3]

North Korea hasn't fired at any country. But the US routinely fires missiles at other countries and kills Thousands of people, including innocent civilians. How many countries has the US bombed and invaded in just the last 30-40 years? In contrast, how many has North Korea bombed and invaded? So, Americans getting so worked up and demanding war over some test-fired missiles, really is the height of absurd hypocrisy.

No other nation on earth bombs and kills more than the US does. What we should really be discussing, is the fact that it is time to leave South Korea. 70yrs of occupation is long enough. The Cold War's been over for decades, and China is no longer our enemy. Now we're just standing in the way of North & South reaching a peace agreement. We're imposing our selfish Imperialist meddling on them. It's time to allow Koreans to sort out their own affairs. We don't need another war. Time for us to come home.

 

[Flopper]

Doesn't matter if we attempt an intercept. He just wants to know where they end up. Because the whole NK program is halted if they can't refine the guidance and accuracy in flight. Kim Chee has no missile range with radars and optics and a task force of Aegis cruisers.

Intercepting a missile in International Waters, could be viewed as illegal and an act of War. The US would not tolerate a nation intercepting its missiles. The US has no legal right to destroy fired North Korean missiles.

Are you joking? Firing a missile at us isn't an act of war, but us firing the middle down before I reaches us is???

That's insane.

North Korea hasn't attacked the US. I know y'all Warmongers want that fantasy to become a reality, but it hasn't happened. It has every right to test-fire missiles. It in no way is an 'Act of War.' In contrast, it would be illegal and Act of War, for the US to intercept and destroy a North Korean test-fired missile. Try intercepting a test-fired US missile, and see if the US doesn't immediately declare it an 'Act of War.'

Well that depends on where they are fired and what they hit. 4 missiles headed toward a US military base can well be interpreted as an act of war. Kim Jong-un has the whole damn pacific to test his missiles. All he has to do is put a boat in the target zone with radar.

A missile fired from NK would cross the Mariana Chain which is administered by the US in it's path to Guam, a US territory. At a minimum it is an infringement of a US territory and since it's a military weapon carrying unknown ordinance, it should certainly be considered an act of war.

If the US intercepts and destroys a North Korean test-fired missile, that would be considered an Act of War. Just like a country intercepting and destroying a US test-fired missile would be.

You are missing two important points. First, those missiles would be hitting within an American territory or coastal waters populated by US citizens. Second, there is no way to tell what type of warheads those missiles carry. If the US announced a test that would land missiles in North Korea or it's coastal waters what do you think their response would be?

 

[Dschrute3]

Intercepting a missile in International Waters, could be viewed as illegal and an act of War. The US would not tolerate a nation intercepting its missiles. The US has no legal right to destroy fired North Korean missiles.

Are you joking? Firing a missile at us isn't an act of war, but us firing the middle down before I reaches us is???

That's insane.

North Korea hasn't attacked the US. I know y'all Warmongers want that fantasy to become a reality, but it hasn't happened. It has every right to test-fire missiles. It in no way is an 'Act of War.' In contrast, it would be illegal and Act of War, for the US to intercept and destroy a North Korean test-fired missile. Try intercepting a test-fired US missile, and see if the US doesn't immediately declare it an 'Act of War.'

Well that depends on where they are fired and what they hit. 4 missiles headed toward a US military base can well be interpreted as an act of war. Kim Jong-un has the whole damn pacific to test his missiles. All he has to do is put a boat in the target zone with radar.

A missile fired from NK would cross the Mariana Chain which is administered by the US in it's path to Guam, a US territory. At a minimum it is an infringement of a US territory and since it's a military weapon carrying unknown ordinance, it should certainly be considered an act of war.

If the US intercepts and destroys a North Korean test-fired missile, that would be considered an Act of War. Just like a country intercepting and destroying a US test-fired missile would be.

You are missing two important points. First, those missiles would be hitting within an American territory or coastal waters populated by US citizens. Second, there is no way to tell what type of warheads those missiles carry. If the US announced a test that would land missiles in North Korea or it's coastal waters what do you think their response would be?

Woulda, coulda, shoulda. Unlike the US, North Korea hasn't fired any missiles at a country. Just like any other country, it has the right to test-fire missiles. If the US does decide to intercept and destroy its missiles, it would have to be deemed an Act of War by North Korea.

 

[Dschrute3]

So sad so many Americans have become duped rabid Warmongers. They don't see reality. Their own Government has been bombing & killing all over the world continuously, for several decades. It hasn't been just 'test-firing' missiles, it has instead been firing missiles at numerous countries and killing untold Thousands of people.

Sadly, the US has lost any moral high ground it may have once had. And now, most Americans are demanding another war that will bring nothing but horrific carnage to so many innocents. I really hope Trump decides to go another route. We don't need another war.

 

[Crixus]

Even if they miss, it's an act of war, is it not?

That all depends: A missile with no payload? Probably more of an annoyance, a lot of "harrumphs", and more sanctions.

An armed conventional missile that detonates near Guam? That's some serious shit where some of their boats and jets start mysteriously go missing.

A nuclear-armed missile? No idea what would happen.

Will we wait until the missle touches down before responding?

Shouldn't. No way to tell what is and is not on a missile.