if not evolution

[Boss]

Bringing...also a purposeful act.

Of course creation implies something - it implies a creator....which is not established.

A creator creates, yes. Water or glaciers created the Grand Canyon. The Grand Canyon didn't always exist, it was created by something. That doesn't imply there was some purpose or intent, it's a matter of simple logic. It exists, therefore, it was created.

 

[Hollie]

Of course there are other options.

Creation implies a purposeful action. There's been no reasonable establishment of that.

Everything that "exists" wasn't therefore "created," that's not logical.

Creation doesn't imply anything other than the bringing of something into the state of existence. If something exists that hasn't always existed, it had to be created.

How do you reconcile creation with reference to any of the assertions for gods?

 

[G.T.]

Bringing...also a purposeful act.

Of course creation implies something - it implies a creator....which is not established.

A creator creates, yes. Water or glaciers created the Grand Canyon. The Grand Canyon didn't always exist, it was created by something. That doesn't imply there was some purpose or intent, it's a matter of simple logic. It exists, therefore, it was created.

In that sense, we are operaring under different generative syntax.

 

[Boss]

In that sense, we are operaring under different generative syntax.

Yes, and your syntax is incorrect.

 

[RWNJ]

Biogenesis is not a theory. It is an induction. Creation is not possible if biogenesis is true

I disagree. Let's be clear, "creation" is certainly true because life exists. The question is the source of creation, not creation itself. We are here, we exist, therefore, something had to create us. Else, we would not exist.

Thats not true ~ its a nice circular argument for a creator though.

No, it IS true. Something, somehow, created us. We haven't always existed, have we? So either we are the product of some physical phenomenon that created us or some non-physical phenomenon. There is no other options if we actually exist in a state of reality.

Of course there are other options.

Creation implies a purposeful action. There's been no reasonable establishment of that.

Everything that "exists" wasn't therefore "created," that's not logical.

DNA is information. There is not one single known instance of information existing without an intelligent mind having created that information. Since DNA contains information, it must have been created by intelligence.

 

[RWNJ]

Of course there are other options.

Creation implies a purposeful action. There's been no reasonable establishment of that.

Everything that "exists" wasn't therefore "created," that's not logical.

Creation doesn't imply anything other than the bringing of something into the state of existence. If something exists that hasn't always existed, it had to be created.

There is also the scientific fact that nothing physical can create itself.

 

[G.T.]

In that sense, we are operaring under different generative syntax.

Yes, and your syntax is incorrect.

cool

 

[Boss]

There is also the scientific fact that nothing physical can create itself.

I think that is the greatest argument in favor of Spiritual Nature.
Physical nature cannot have created itself.

 

[G.T.]

There is also the scientific fact that nothing physical can create itself.

I think that is the greatest argument in favor of Spiritual Nature.
Physical nature cannot have created itself.

That we currently know of.

 

[Hollie]

Biogenesis is not a theory. It is an induction. Creation is not possible if biogenesis is true

I disagree. Let's be clear, "creation" is certainly true because life exists. The question is the source of creation, not creation itself. We are here, we exist, therefore, something had to create us. Else, we would not exist.

Thats not true ~ its a nice circular argument for a creator though.

No, it IS true. Something, somehow, created us. We haven't always existed, have we? So either we are the product of some physical phenomenon that created us or some non-physical phenomenon. There is no other options if we actually exist in a state of reality.

Of course there are other options.

Creation implies a purposeful action. There's been no reasonable establishment of that.

Everything that "exists" wasn't therefore "created," that's not logical.

DNA is information. There is not one single known instance of information existing without an intelligent mind having created that information. Since DNA contains information, it must have been created by intelligence.

DNA is chemical coding. What information can you offer to support supernatural agents as the source of DNA?

 

[Hollie]

There is also the scientific fact that nothing physical can create itself.

I think that is the greatest argument in favor of Spiritual Nature.
Physical nature cannot have created itself.

What created your spirit realms?

 

[RWNJ]

There is also the scientific fact that nothing physical can create itself.

I think that is the greatest argument in favor of Spiritual Nature.
Physical nature cannot have created itself.

That we currently know of.

And never will know. The simple fact is that something that doesn't exist cannot create itself...because it doesn't exist. That's simple logic.

 

[ScienceRocks]

The truth is there's no other solid theory supported by evidence then some form of evolution! Believing that there's a guy upstairs isn't supported by anything.

 

[Boss]

There is also the scientific fact that nothing physical can create itself.

I think that is the greatest argument in favor of Spiritual Nature.
Physical nature cannot have created itself.

That we currently know of.

Well, it's a logical paradox.

 

[G.T.]

There is also the scientific fact that nothing physical can create itself.

I think that is the greatest argument in favor of Spiritual Nature.
Physical nature cannot have created itself.

That we currently know of.

And never will know. The simple fact is that something that doesn't exist cannot create itself...because it doesn't exist. That's simple logic.

That's what we think, today.

The Universe, the potential multi verses, and all of the potential dimensions leave a lot of uncertainty in current human understanding.

Being so quick to dismiss possibility is hubris.

 

[RWNJ]

There is also the scientific fact that nothing physical can create itself.

I think that is the greatest argument in favor of Spiritual Nature.
Physical nature cannot have created itself.

That's why some scientists claim that energy has always existed. You see, they could not explain why it exists in the first place, so they simply decided that it has always existed. ELL Oh ELL. That's not science. It's dogma. How could they possibly know that something has always existed? They can't. But some scientist said it, so it must be true.

 

[Boss]

The truth is there's no other solid theory supported by evidence then some form of evolution! Believing that there's a guy upstairs isn't supported by anything.

Sorry... there is NO form of "evolution" that supports or suggest ORIGIN.

You are simply defying LOGIC!

NOTHING can EVOLVE until it first EXISTS!

 

[G.T.]

There is also the scientific fact that nothing physical can create itself.

I think that is the greatest argument in favor of Spiritual Nature.
Physical nature cannot have created itself.

That we currently know of.

Well, it's a logical paradox.

Yupp, logic is a set of parameters us humans use to establish that our reasoning is valid.

 

[Boss]

There is also the scientific fact that nothing physical can create itself.

I think that is the greatest argument in favor of Spiritual Nature.
Physical nature cannot have created itself.

That's why some scientists claim that energy has always existed. You see, they could not explain why it exists in the first place, so they simply decided that it has always existed. ELL Oh ELL. That's not science. It's dogma. How could they possibly know that something has always existed? They can't. But some scientist said it, so it must be true.

Yes, and they've held on to this theory of "Singularity" in spite of the fact that it totally contradicts Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle.

 

[RWNJ]

There is also the scientific fact that nothing physical can create itself.

I think that is the greatest argument in favor of Spiritual Nature.
Physical nature cannot have created itself.

That we currently know of.

And never will know. The simple fact is that something that doesn't exist cannot create itself...because it doesn't exist. That's simple logic.

That's what we think, today.

The Universe, the potential multi verses, and all of the potential dimensions leave a lot of uncertainty in current human understanding.

Being so quick to dismiss possibility is hubris.

Ever hear of a little something called the Law Of Cause And Effect? Nothing happens without something else causing it to happen. So, genius, what caused the universe to exist? The only answer that makes any sense at all is that it was created...by a Creator. No other explanation even comes close.