If the Fed Budget was managed like household's what programs would be cut?

[eagle1462010]

We have $1.4 trillion of exemptions, credits, and deductions each year.

As a result, we have to raise the tax rates on everyone. Except we don't raise them high enough to balance the budget. If we raised them high enough to balance the budget, everyone would riot.

So we raise them as much as we dare, and borrow the rest.

And that's how we got to $21 trillion of debt.

Only part of the equation..........Spending and making promises we can't keep is part of the equation..............

You push Zero Sum taxation and getting rid of the loop holes..........you don't address spending..........and entitlements.

 

[g5000]

There is no magical quality of a flat tax which prevents it from being corrupted from tax expenditures.

We have to specifically ban tax expenditures, NO MATTER WHICH TAX SCHEME WE HAVE.

Christ, this isn't hard to understand if you stop and think!

 

[g5000]

We have $1.4 trillion of exemptions, credits, and deductions each year.

As a result, we have to raise the tax rates on everyone. Except we don't raise them high enough to balance the budget. If we raised them high enough to balance the budget, everyone would riot.

So we raise them as much as we dare, and borrow the rest.

And that's how we got to $21 trillion of debt.

Only part of the equation..........Spending and making promises we can't keep is part of the equation..............

You push Zero Sum taxation and getting rid of the loop holes..........you don't address spending..........and entitlements.

Tax. Expenditures. ARE SPENDING.

They are the BIGGEST spending our government does!

 

[eagle1462010]

Link it........sounds like tax increases to me...........which are a double edged sword........they kill jobs at the same time

Eliminating tax expenditures coupled to lowering tax rates is a bedrock conservative principle. Unfortunately, the pseudocons have never even been on the conservative reservation.

I've proven the truth about tax expenditures a zillion times, but what the heck...

Here is Deven Nunes, one of Trump's butt boys, explaining that every credit, deduction, and exemption is paid for by raising tax rates on everyone: No tax reform without border adjustment tax, Rep. Nunes says

"If people wanted to drop the corporate rate from 35 to say 33, 32, maybe 30, we could probably do it. But if you go back to several years that we looked at doing just that, the goal was to get to 25 percent, and by the time every lobbyist, every special interest group in town, representing every major corporation in this country, the tax rate was automatically all the way back above 30 by the time you put everybody's special loophole in."


Read that a hundred times if that is how much it takes for you to comprehend it.

Nunes sits on the House Ways and Means Committee. That's the committee responsible for taxation.

Nunes clearly states that every deduction, exemption, and credit is paid for by raising tax rates on everyone. That's why I call them government gifts, because they are. They are theft from someone else's pocket.

Flat Tax with no loop holes does the same thing..............

Your article shows getting rid of the loop holes but lobbyists would stop paying their favorite Politicians the money anymore.........Not to mention the Subsidies I already listed.......

Why not just get rid of the subsidies all together..........

In regards to loopholes..........your issue is a tax increase.........big business would then pass the cost on to the consumers.....They aren't gonna eat it.........

And nothing really changes............

We have a spending problem .............and Mandatory spending is the Lion's share of all of it.

Your proposal is a tax increase.............

Nope. No matter how many times you claim eliminating tax expenditures and lowering tax rate for EVERYONE is a tax increase, it will not become true.

You are practically saying the same thing I am when you say "Flat Tax with no loop holes does the same thing".

But you see, you are being hoaxed by the flat taxers. They have you believing our problem is the type of tax system we have. They have you believing the problem is the progressive tax system.

It isn't.

It is tax expenditures which are the problem.

You will never hear a single flat tax politician claim their flat tax will have "no loopholes". That's because politicians count on gigantic sums of money from special interest who pay them to create $1.5 trillion worth of gifts in the tax code for them.

You said, "but lobbyists would stop paying their favorite Politicians the money anymore". That's absolutely right! That's why I said several posts ago that my plan would serendipitously create campaign finance reform.

If a politician is not allowed to put a gift in the tax code, then there is no incentive to pay him to do so. Voila!

I have no problem with getting rid of loop holes that business take advantage of..............and ending all subsidies that pick winners and losers...........

But it is in fact a tax increase..............

You say it's the same as a flat tax...........well a flat tax can be stepped as well.........and end all loop holes within it.............but they would never do it.........you know that..

Doesn't address unfunded Liabilities............and doesn't address them pushing the cost on to the public........they aren't going to eat it.

It's amusing me that you can see how the flat tax rate would be lower without deductions, but can't see how the current income tax would be lower without deductions.

This is fucking hilarious.

You've been bamboozled by misdirection, and that has been done on purpose.

I disagree............You want Zero sum taxation...........then tell me where to CUT SPENDING AS WELL..........

Show me cuts and reform to stop the spending spree from Washington............

 

[g5000]

You push Zero Sum taxation and getting rid of the loop holes..........you don't address spending..........and entitlements.

I addressed both spending and entitlements. In my very second post. See post 36. I balanced the budget for the next 200 years.

Easy peasy!

 

[eagle1462010]

We have $1.4 trillion of exemptions, credits, and deductions each year.

As a result, we have to raise the tax rates on everyone. Except we don't raise them high enough to balance the budget. If we raised them high enough to balance the budget, everyone would riot.

So we raise them as much as we dare, and borrow the rest.

And that's how we got to $21 trillion of debt.

Only part of the equation..........Spending and making promises we can't keep is part of the equation..............

You push Zero Sum taxation and getting rid of the loop holes..........you don't address spending..........and entitlements.

Tax. Expenditures. ARE SPENDING.

They are the BIGGEST spending our government does!

They are deductions...........and subsidies.............I listed subsidies.........and foreign assistance to cut already............You paint with a broad brush.........

And don't explain the 2 edged sword on deductions.........how much will be passed on to the consumer in costs for it..............and how many jobs will be lost for the 1.4 Trillion a year...........and how does that fix unfunded liabilities in pensions, SS and Medicaid in our coming future.

 

[g5000]

Eliminating tax expenditures coupled to lowering tax rates is a bedrock conservative principle. Unfortunately, the pseudocons have never even been on the conservative reservation.

I've proven the truth about tax expenditures a zillion times, but what the heck...

Here is Deven Nunes, one of Trump's butt boys, explaining that every credit, deduction, and exemption is paid for by raising tax rates on everyone: No tax reform without border adjustment tax, Rep. Nunes says

"If people wanted to drop the corporate rate from 35 to say 33, 32, maybe 30, we could probably do it. But if you go back to several years that we looked at doing just that, the goal was to get to 25 percent, and by the time every lobbyist, every special interest group in town, representing every major corporation in this country, the tax rate was automatically all the way back above 30 by the time you put everybody's special loophole in."


Read that a hundred times if that is how much it takes for you to comprehend it.

Nunes sits on the House Ways and Means Committee. That's the committee responsible for taxation.

Nunes clearly states that every deduction, exemption, and credit is paid for by raising tax rates on everyone. That's why I call them government gifts, because they are. They are theft from someone else's pocket.

Flat Tax with no loop holes does the same thing..............

Your article shows getting rid of the loop holes but lobbyists would stop paying their favorite Politicians the money anymore.........Not to mention the Subsidies I already listed.......

Why not just get rid of the subsidies all together..........

In regards to loopholes..........your issue is a tax increase.........big business would then pass the cost on to the consumers.....They aren't gonna eat it.........

And nothing really changes............

We have a spending problem .............and Mandatory spending is the Lion's share of all of it.

Your proposal is a tax increase.............

Nope. No matter how many times you claim eliminating tax expenditures and lowering tax rate for EVERYONE is a tax increase, it will not become true.

You are practically saying the same thing I am when you say "Flat Tax with no loop holes does the same thing".

But you see, you are being hoaxed by the flat taxers. They have you believing our problem is the type of tax system we have. They have you believing the problem is the progressive tax system.

It isn't.

It is tax expenditures which are the problem.

You will never hear a single flat tax politician claim their flat tax will have "no loopholes". That's because politicians count on gigantic sums of money from special interest who pay them to create $1.5 trillion worth of gifts in the tax code for them.

You said, "but lobbyists would stop paying their favorite Politicians the money anymore". That's absolutely right! That's why I said several posts ago that my plan would serendipitously create campaign finance reform.

If a politician is not allowed to put a gift in the tax code, then there is no incentive to pay him to do so. Voila!

I have no problem with getting rid of loop holes that business take advantage of..............and ending all subsidies that pick winners and losers...........

But it is in fact a tax increase..............

You say it's the same as a flat tax...........well a flat tax can be stepped as well.........and end all loop holes within it.............but they would never do it.........you know that..

Doesn't address unfunded Liabilities............and doesn't address them pushing the cost on to the public........they aren't going to eat it.

It's amusing me that you can see how the flat tax rate would be lower without deductions, but can't see how the current income tax would be lower without deductions.

This is fucking hilarious.

You've been bamboozled by misdirection, and that has been done on purpose.

I disagree............You want Zero sum taxation...........then tell me where to CUT SPENDING AS WELL..........

Show me cuts and reform to stop the spending spree from Washington............

Again. Ban the $1.4 trillion in tax expenditures!

There you go. I just cut spending. Done.

Perhaps you should look up the dictionary definition of "expenditure". Maybe that will help.

 

[Cellblock2429]

We currently have an insane system where entities earning identical incomes are paying radically different tax amounts. One entity is paying less AT THE EXPENSE OF THE OTHER.

That part in caps is the part your propagandists don't tell you. They deliberately keep that from you. You are being robbed, and are being programmed to DEFEND that robbery!


Without tax expenditures, everyone earning identical incomes would be paying identical taxes. And the tax rates for everyone would be MUCH lower.

And no more borrowing.

The reason our government borrows so much is because we would not tolerate the full tax rates it would take to fully pay for $1.5 triiion of annual tax expenditures.

aka increased taxes.........

Put a Flat Tax in at a fixed rate.........no deductions and file your taxes on a post card every year...........

x amount and done.........end all subsidies and grants.........end the gov't being in the housing market.......sell off all assets........and stop giving money to other countries we have to borrow money for to pay for it.

/----/ We were in Nassau Bahamas and they eliminated income tax and replaced it with a VAT. So if you were a careful shopper you paid the minimum tax no matter how much you made.

 

[eagle1462010]

Flat Tax with no loop holes does the same thing..............

Your article shows getting rid of the loop holes but lobbyists would stop paying their favorite Politicians the money anymore.........Not to mention the Subsidies I already listed.......

Why not just get rid of the subsidies all together..........

In regards to loopholes..........your issue is a tax increase.........big business would then pass the cost on to the consumers.....They aren't gonna eat it.........

And nothing really changes............

We have a spending problem .............and Mandatory spending is the Lion's share of all of it.

Your proposal is a tax increase.............

Nope. No matter how many times you claim eliminating tax expenditures and lowering tax rate for EVERYONE is a tax increase, it will not become true.

You are practically saying the same thing I am when you say "Flat Tax with no loop holes does the same thing".

But you see, you are being hoaxed by the flat taxers. They have you believing our problem is the type of tax system we have. They have you believing the problem is the progressive tax system.

It isn't.

It is tax expenditures which are the problem.

You will never hear a single flat tax politician claim their flat tax will have "no loopholes". That's because politicians count on gigantic sums of money from special interest who pay them to create $1.5 trillion worth of gifts in the tax code for them.

You said, "but lobbyists would stop paying their favorite Politicians the money anymore". That's absolutely right! That's why I said several posts ago that my plan would serendipitously create campaign finance reform.

If a politician is not allowed to put a gift in the tax code, then there is no incentive to pay him to do so. Voila!

I have no problem with getting rid of loop holes that business take advantage of..............and ending all subsidies that pick winners and losers...........

But it is in fact a tax increase..............

You say it's the same as a flat tax...........well a flat tax can be stepped as well.........and end all loop holes within it.............but they would never do it.........you know that..

Doesn't address unfunded Liabilities............and doesn't address them pushing the cost on to the public........they aren't going to eat it.

It's amusing me that you can see how the flat tax rate would be lower without deductions, but can't see how the current income tax would be lower without deductions.

This is fucking hilarious.

You've been bamboozled by misdirection, and that has been done on purpose.

I disagree............You want Zero sum taxation...........then tell me where to CUT SPENDING AS WELL..........

Show me cuts and reform to stop the spending spree from Washington............

Again. Ban the $1.4 trillion in tax expenditures!

There you go. I just cut spending. Done.

Perhaps you should look up the dictionary definition of "expenditure". Maybe that will help.

You equate tax cuts and deductions to spending............

I don't agree..........Spending is mandatory and discretionary............and you list NO CUTS THERE.

 

[Issa]

Secrets of the Federal Budget Revealed
Trying to simplify the US Budget process, 2019 revenue is about $3.4T, plus the borrowing of about $985b to cover the $4.4T 2018 Budget. That is at least $900b too high. So looking at the Budget items from the article:

Mandatory spending $2.74T
Social Security $1,050b
Medicare $625b
Medicaid $412b
Welfare $462b
Interest on the Debt $363b

Discretionary $1.3T
Defense $893b

Busting 5 Myths About Government Discretionary Spending
Department Budget Emergency Total Discretionary
Dept of Defense $597.1 $88.9 $686.0
HHS $69.5 $0.5 $70.0
Education $59.9 $59.9
VA $83.1 $83.1
Homeland Security $46.0 $6.7 $52.7
Energy Dept $29.2 $29.2
NNSA $15.1 $15.1
HUD $29.2 $29.2
State Dept $28.3 $12.0 $40.3
NASA $19. $19.9
All Other Agencies$129.8 $3.3 $133.1
TOTAL $1,303b

If you stare at the numbers for a few minutes it becomes apparent that to cut spending by more than $900b it needs to come from Entitlements.
SS can't be cut, those benefits were promised. However, the retirement age can be raised and a few tweaks can be made to keep it solvent.
Medicare can't be cut, those benefits were promised, however some savings can be realized to keep it solvent.
Medicaid can be cut, those benefits were not earned.
Welfare can be cut, those benefits were not earned.

If the deficit is covered 1/2 by cuts and 1/2 by revenue
Revenue needs to increase by $500b. (all tax rates need to increase 10%)
Defense needs to be cut by at least 10%, say $100b to $793b
Cuts of $400b need to come out of welfare ($250b) + ($150b) medicaid, with some savings from SS & Medicare if possible.

Who supports getting back to a Balanced Budget? It is not that difficult

Defense and it is a no brainer. Too many expensive toys that are never used, wasted.

 

[eagle1462010]

We currently have an insane system where entities earning identical incomes are paying radically different tax amounts. One entity is paying less AT THE EXPENSE OF THE OTHER.

That part in caps is the part your propagandists don't tell you. They deliberately keep that from you. You are being robbed, and are being programmed to DEFEND that robbery!


Without tax expenditures, everyone earning identical incomes would be paying identical taxes. And the tax rates for everyone would be MUCH lower.

And no more borrowing.

The reason our government borrows so much is because we would not tolerate the full tax rates it would take to fully pay for $1.5 triiion of annual tax expenditures.

aka increased taxes.........

Put a Flat Tax in at a fixed rate.........no deductions and file your taxes on a post card every year...........

x amount and done.........end all subsidies and grants.........end the gov't being in the housing market.......sell off all assets........and stop giving money to other countries we have to borrow money for to pay for it.

/----/ We were in Nassau Bahamas and they eliminated income tax and replaced it with a VAT. So if you were a careful shopper you paid the minimum tax no matter how much you made.

Some states have no income tax.......and get their money other ways..........then you have states like California at 13%

 

[LoneLaugher]

As an aside......

Anyone who compares the federal budget to that of a “household”....is a moron.

 

[g5000]

You and I owe the government $500 each. That's our share of a BALANCED federal budget.

But wait! You bought the right kind of refrigerator last year. The kind the government wanted you to buy. The kind some refrigerator manufacturer paid Congress to put a deduction in the tax code for.

So now you only have to pay $400 in taxes.

That means the federal budget is no longer going to be BALANCED.

They will be short $100.

You are excited, though. "Woo hoo! I'm getting to keep more of my own money!"

So now the government has two choices.

1. Raise the tax rate so that everyone has to pay $550. (I'll pay $550, you'll pay $450 after deduction).

2. Borrow the difference from China.


Let's go with option 1, the HIGHER TAX RATE:

My tax bill is now $550. Your deduction just took an extra $50 out of my pocket.

Your tax bill is now $450. You THINK you are getting a $100 deduction, but you really only come out ahead by $50.

And that $50 had to be stolen from me.


Option 2:

I continue to pay $500, you pay $400 after deduction, and the government borrows $100 from China.


We actually do a mix of both of these options in the real world.


So what if we took that fucking bullshit out of the tax code?

Great! Now we can all go back to paying $500 (LOWER TAX RATE), you are no longer stealing from me, and the government can stop borrowing from China.

Level playing fied.

 

[g5000]

As an aside......

Anyone who compares the federal budget to that of a “household”....is a moron.

True, but there are analogies which work.

For instance, Trump's tax reform was like spending so much we had to raise our credit limit and yet we are expecting lower monthly payments.

No bank would ever allow that. But our government gets to write its own borrowing and spending rules.

That will work for them until our creditors no longer believe we can make the payments.

And when that day comes, it will be sudden and disastrous.

 

[g5000]

We currently have an insane system where entities earning identical incomes are paying radically different tax amounts. One entity is paying less AT THE EXPENSE OF THE OTHER.

That part in caps is the part your propagandists don't tell you. They deliberately keep that from you. You are being robbed, and are being programmed to DEFEND that robbery!


Without tax expenditures, everyone earning identical incomes would be paying identical taxes. And the tax rates for everyone would be MUCH lower.

And no more borrowing.

The reason our government borrows so much is because we would not tolerate the full tax rates it would take to fully pay for $1.5 triiion of annual tax expenditures.

aka increased taxes.........

Put a Flat Tax in at a fixed rate.........no deductions and file your taxes on a post card every year...........

x amount and done.........end all subsidies and grants.........end the gov't being in the housing market.......sell off all assets........and stop giving money to other countries we have to borrow money for to pay for it.

/----/ We were in Nassau Bahamas and they eliminated income tax and replaced it with a VAT. So if you were a careful shopper you paid the minimum tax no matter how much you made.

Exactly why I prefer consumption taxes over taxes on production.

 

[Cellblock2429]

We currently have an insane system where entities earning identical incomes are paying radically different tax amounts. One entity is paying less AT THE EXPENSE OF THE OTHER.

That part in caps is the part your propagandists don't tell you. They deliberately keep that from you. You are being robbed, and are being programmed to DEFEND that robbery!


Without tax expenditures, everyone earning identical incomes would be paying identical taxes. And the tax rates for everyone would be MUCH lower.

And no more borrowing.

The reason our government borrows so much is because we would not tolerate the full tax rates it would take to fully pay for $1.5 triiion of annual tax expenditures.

aka increased taxes.........

Put a Flat Tax in at a fixed rate.........no deductions and file your taxes on a post card every year...........

x amount and done.........end all subsidies and grants.........end the gov't being in the housing market.......sell off all assets........and stop giving money to other countries we have to borrow money for to pay for it.

/----/ We were in Nassau Bahamas and they eliminated income tax and replaced it with a VAT. So if you were a careful shopper you paid the minimum tax no matter how much you made.

Exactly why I prefer consumption taxes over taxes on production.

/----/ I don't know if it included food or medicine but it was definitely on my bar tab.

 

[eagle1462010]

You and I owe the government $500 each. That's our share of a BALANCED federal budget.

But wait! You bought the right kind of refrigerator last year. The kind the government wanted you to buy. The kind some refrigerator manufacturer paid Congress to put a deduction in the tax code for.

So now you only have to pay $400 in taxes.

That means the federal budget is no longer going to be BALANCED.

They will be short $100.

You are excited, though. "Woo hoo! I'm getting to keep more of my own money!"

So now the government has two choices.

1. Raise the tax rate so that everyone has to pay $550. (I'll pay $550, you'll pay $450 after deduction).

2. Borrow the difference from China.


Let's go with option 1:

My tax bill is now $550. Your deduction just took an extra $50 out of my pocket.

Your tax bill is now $450. You THINK you are getting a $100 deduction, but you really only come out ahead by $50.

And that $50 had to be stolen from me.


Option 2:

I continue to pay $500, you pay $400, and the government borrows $100 from China.


We actually do a mix of both of these options in the real world.


So what if we took that fucking bullshit out of the tax code?

Great! Now we can all go back to paying $500, you can stop stealing from me, and the government can stop borrowing from China.

Level playing fied.

Nice.........That is a tax credit that I showed earlier and they are a toon of 160 Billion a year...............I already said get rid of them.

Then I said get rid of subidies........

Now specifically get rid of the loop holes............not generalizations...........go........

 

[BluesLegend]

$462 billion on welfare? That's over $1,500 for every man, woman, and child in the country.

 

[g5000]

You and I owe the government $500 each. That's our share of a BALANCED federal budget.

But wait! You bought the right kind of refrigerator last year. The kind the government wanted you to buy. The kind some refrigerator manufacturer paid Congress to put a deduction in the tax code for.

So now you only have to pay $400 in taxes.

That means the federal budget is no longer going to be BALANCED.

They will be short $100.

You are excited, though. "Woo hoo! I'm getting to keep more of my own money!"

So now the government has two choices.

1. Raise the tax rate so that everyone has to pay $550. (I'll pay $550, you'll pay $450 after deduction).

2. Borrow the difference from China.


Let's go with option 1:

My tax bill is now $550. Your deduction just took an extra $50 out of my pocket.

Your tax bill is now $450. You THINK you are getting a $100 deduction, but you really only come out ahead by $50.

And that $50 had to be stolen from me.


Option 2:

I continue to pay $500, you pay $400, and the government borrows $100 from China.


We actually do a mix of both of these options in the real world.


So what if we took that fucking bullshit out of the tax code?

Great! Now we can all go back to paying $500, you can stop stealing from me, and the government can stop borrowing from China.

Level playing fied.

Nice.........That is a tax credit that I showed earlier and they are a toon of 160 Billion a year...............I already said get rid of them.

Then I said get rid of subidies........

Now specifically get rid of the loop holes............not generalizations...........go........

How ironic. You refer to "loop holes" and then demand we not talk about generalizations!

I want ALL tax expenditures banned, period. Is that simple enough for you?

All deductions. All credits. All exemptions.

If you put a gun to my head and demanded I allow one tax expenditure, I would choose the Earned Income Tax Credit. That is the only one which has been proven to increase productivity.

 

[g5000]

We currently have an insane system where entities earning identical incomes are paying radically different tax amounts. One entity is paying less AT THE EXPENSE OF THE OTHER.

That part in caps is the part your propagandists don't tell you. They deliberately keep that from you. You are being robbed, and are being programmed to DEFEND that robbery!


Without tax expenditures, everyone earning identical incomes would be paying identical taxes. And the tax rates for everyone would be MUCH lower.

And no more borrowing.

The reason our government borrows so much is because we would not tolerate the full tax rates it would take to fully pay for $1.5 triiion of annual tax expenditures.

aka increased taxes.........

Put a Flat Tax in at a fixed rate.........no deductions and file your taxes on a post card every year...........

x amount and done.........end all subsidies and grants.........end the gov't being in the housing market.......sell off all assets........and stop giving money to other countries we have to borrow money for to pay for it.

/----/ We were in Nassau Bahamas and they eliminated income tax and replaced it with a VAT. So if you were a careful shopper you paid the minimum tax no matter how much you made.

Exactly why I prefer consumption taxes over taxes on production.

/----/ I don't know if it included food or medicine but it was definitely on my bar tab.

My ideal system would be the Fair Tax with ZERO exemptions.

Once you allow exemptions of any kind, then the door opens for trillions of dollars of them. If you exempt milk one day, then the next day they will be exempting yachts. All in exchange for campaign cash.

Just. Like. They. Do. Now.

The best part of a Fair Tax is that everyone has skin in the game, and you can't hide a tax increase.

I bet if you surveyed everyone you know, not one of them will be able to tell you how much they paid in income tax last year.

Not. One.

I doubt they could even tell you what income tax rate they were charged, either.

They might be able to tell you how much they owed, or how much their refund was, but they will not be able to tell you their total federal income tax.

And that is how our politicians are able to rob us blind.