If there is a God...

[ding]

So I guess I’m going to pose this question to you all: If there is a God (as outlined above) is there any evidence it really cares about you or my well being at a personal level?

I don't know about your life. Six incidents in my own life immediately sprang to mind that point to the actuality of God greatly caring for individuals on a deeply personal level.

I suspect what you want is the answer to, "How can I make God perform like that in my own life--and no later than day after tomorrow?"

Anthropomorphic fallacy.

A deity with human attributes is not omnipotent, not a 'god' – it is consequently unworthy of worship and devoid of moral and religious authority.

You have to wonder why this god isn’t even as good as you and I are. For example I would have given hitler a heart attack before he did what he did. Any pedophile or rapist would have heart attacks right before they committed their acts.

If god can watch a child get raped he’s fucked up if he could do something but doesn’t.

We are never to think of God's power in terms of what he could conceivably do by the exercise of what we may call sheer omnipotence which crushes all obstacles in its path. We are always to think of God's power in terms of his purpose. If what he did by sheer omnipotence defeated his purpose, then, however startling and impressive, it would be an expression of weakness, not of power. Indeed, a good definition of power is "ability to achieve purpose.

We must realize that God's power is not put forward to get certain things done, but to get them done in a certain way, and with certain results in the lives of those who do them.

Action, then, which defeats purpose is weakness. Power is the ability to fulfill purpose. No one knows what it cost God to refrain from intervention when men of ill will do evil things. But the restraint is not weakness.

MLK

 

[Meriweather]

.
it's their christian god they are talking about shaped for them in their 4th century book is what they recognize as they were led to believe by those who believe as they do, put in writing for them, a political manifestation pleasing to their kind, nothing more.

This is a poor guess by an onlooker not too familiar with either Christianity or history.

 

[Montrovant]

And I am asking you how you recognize whatever it is you experience as having to do with god. Until we learn what it is called, we don't recognize happiness, sadness, or love. Those words are just labels describing those feelings. God, on the other hand, is not generally a word used to describe a feeling.

I don't know what is so difficult to understand. You know what it means to recognize someone, something, some feeling. Recognition of God is no different. I recognized God; and among other things, I felt awe.

I am always very careful to never go beyond the actual happening. For example, nothing in my experience verifies that God is Creator. Nothing in my experience verifies Trinity. Not one thing verifies any Biblical account of anything. My experience is how God relates to us personally. What I can verify is that God is pure love--and that He honors free will (or free choice if that word is preferred). Because of my own experience of God, I do not doubt scripture--but scripture was not my experience. That belongs to others.

You recognize something when you see it again. You don't recognize something you see for the first time, unless you have already had it described to you. When you recognize a person, it is because you have seen them before. When you recognize a band's music, it is because you have heard their music before. In order to recognize being in god's presence, wouldn't you need to have experienced being in god's presence before, as well? That is my question: why/how are you able to recognize something you've never experienced before? If you haven't experienced it before, how do you know what it is? If you recognize it based on what others have said about it, how did they know? Based on what you've posted, the answer seems to be that you just do.

 

[Meriweather]

You recognize something when you see it again. You don't recognize something you see for the first time, unless you have already had it described to you. When you recognize a person, it is because you have seen them before. When you recognize a band's music, it is because you have heard their music before. In order to recognize being in god's presence, wouldn't you need to have experienced being in god's presence before, as well? That is my question: why/how are you able to recognize something you've never experienced before? If you haven't experienced it before, how do you know what it is? If you recognize it based on what others have said about it, how did they know? Based on what you've posted, the answer seems to be that you just do.

Here is the thing. I tell you what happened...but you want to tell me what you think "really" happened. I can't do a thing about what you want to think. All I can do is relate what happened. What you really want to have happened doesn't change a thing about what really did happen.

 

[Spare_change]

So I guess I’m going to pose this question to you all: If there is a God (as outlined above) is there any evidence it really cares about you or my well being at a personal level?

I don't know about your life. Six incidents in my own life immediately sprang to mind that point to the actuality of God greatly caring for individuals on a deeply personal level.

I suspect what you want is the answer to, "How can I make God perform like that in my own life--and no later than day after tomorrow?"

Anthropomorphic fallacy.

A deity with human attributes is not omnipotent, not a 'god' – it is consequently unworthy of worship and devoid of moral and religious authority.

You have to wonder why this god isn’t even as good as you and I are. For example I would have given hitler a heart attack before he did what he did. Any pedophile or rapist would have heart attacks right before they committed their acts.

If god can watch a child get raped he’s fucked up if he could do something but doesn’t.

Obviously, you have absolutely no concept of the relationship between God and man - and you're the poorer for it.

 

[Montrovant]

You recognize something when you see it again. You don't recognize something you see for the first time, unless you have already had it described to you. When you recognize a person, it is because you have seen them before. When you recognize a band's music, it is because you have heard their music before. In order to recognize being in god's presence, wouldn't you need to have experienced being in god's presence before, as well? That is my question: why/how are you able to recognize something you've never experienced before? If you haven't experienced it before, how do you know what it is? If you recognize it based on what others have said about it, how did they know? Based on what you've posted, the answer seems to be that you just do.

Here is the thing. I tell you what happened...but you want to tell me what you think "really" happened. I can't do a thing about what you want to think. All I can do is relate what happened. What you really want to have happened doesn't change a thing about what really did happen.

You still are not getting it. This isn't about what did or did not happen, but how you can know that what you believe happened is what actually happened. How do you know that what you experienced was god's presence? The first time this happened to you, you would have had no idea what it felt like to be in god's presence, unless it was described to you by others. That being the case, how would you know what the feeling was caused by?

Let me try to give an analogy. If I were to experience paralysis in the fingers of my left hand, I would not immediately decide I knew what the cause was. I have never experienced paralysis before, nor do I have any experience with others experiencing paralysis in their fingers to go by. Therefore, although I would absolutely have experienced the paralysis, there would be no way for me to know the cause without more information. Let's go further and say that, after various tests by different physicians and specialists, no cause for the paralysis can be determined. Would I assume I knew the cause? If I told you that I experienced paralysis in my fingers because a ghost inhabited my body, might you be curious as to how I could know such a thing?

You may have been in god's presence, and that may have caused the feelings you experienced. My question is how you, or anyone, can know that is the case.

 

[Meriweather]

You still are not getting it. This isn't about what did or did not happen, but how you can know that what you believe happened is what actually happened. How do you know that what you experienced was god's presence? The first time this happened to you, you would have had no idea what it felt like to be in god's presence, unless it was described to you by others. That being the case, how would you know what the feeling was caused by?

No. You are not getting it. I am outlining precisely what happened and you are telling me it could not have happened that way. It happened EXACTLY that way. No, the presence of God was not described to me by others. Yes, I recognized God. How could that be? I don't know. It just was. My spirit recognized God.

Let me try to give an analogy. If I were to experience paralysis in the fingers of my left hand, I would not immediately decide I knew what the cause was. I have never experienced paralysis before, nor do I have any experience with others experiencing paralysis in their fingers to go by. Therefore, although I would absolutely have experienced the paralysis, there would be no way for me to know the cause without more information. Let's go further and say that, after various tests by different physicians and specialists, no cause for the paralysis can be determined. Would I assume I knew the cause? If I told you that I experienced paralysis in my fingers because a ghost inhabited my body, might you be curious as to how I could know such a thing?

You are speaking of physical events in your body, are you not? How does that relate to a spiritual occurrence?

You may have been in god's presence, and that may have caused the feelings you experienced. My question is how you, or anyone, can know that is the case.

I've already explained this several times. If I think of yet another comparison overnight that may be more enlightening, I'll be happy to let you know.

 

[Montrovant]

You still are not getting it. This isn't about what did or did not happen, but how you can know that what you believe happened is what actually happened. How do you know that what you experienced was god's presence? The first time this happened to you, you would have had no idea what it felt like to be in god's presence, unless it was described to you by others. That being the case, how would you know what the feeling was caused by?

No. You are not getting it. I am outlining precisely what happened and you are telling me it could not have happened that way. It happened EXACTLY that way. No, the presence of God was not described to me by others. Yes, I recognized God. How could that be? I don't know. It just was. My spirit recognized God.

Let me try to give an analogy. If I were to experience paralysis in the fingers of my left hand, I would not immediately decide I knew what the cause was. I have never experienced paralysis before, nor do I have any experience with others experiencing paralysis in their fingers to go by. Therefore, although I would absolutely have experienced the paralysis, there would be no way for me to know the cause without more information. Let's go further and say that, after various tests by different physicians and specialists, no cause for the paralysis can be determined. Would I assume I knew the cause? If I told you that I experienced paralysis in my fingers because a ghost inhabited my body, might you be curious as to how I could know such a thing?

You are speaking of physical events in your body, are you not? How does that relate to a spiritual occurrence?

You may have been in god's presence, and that may have caused the feelings you experienced. My question is how you, or anyone, can know that is the case.

I've already explained this several times. If I think of yet another comparison overnight that may be more enlightening, I'll be happy to let you know.

I have not once told you that what happened could not have happened. I have said, repeatedly, that I do not understand how you could know that what happened was caused by the presence of god. Again, I am in no way denying what happened to you, I am questioning how you could know the cause of what happened to you. I'm not sure why you think I'm telling you anything could not have happened.

You don't know how you could know it was god. Thank you, that's what I have been asking.

That being the case, do you think it is at all possible that you are mistaken about what caused your experience? Obviously you don't believe that you are, I'm just wondering if you think it's at all possible. Perhaps these feelings are caused by something physical rather than spiritual. Perhaps the presence was supernatural, but not god; a ghost, an angel, etc.

 

[sealybobo]

So I guess I’m going to pose this question to you all: If there is a God (as outlined above) is there any evidence it really cares about you or my well being at a personal level?

I don't know about your life. Six incidents in my own life immediately sprang to mind that point to the actuality of God greatly caring for individuals on a deeply personal level.

I suspect what you want is the answer to, "How can I make God perform like that in my own life--and no later than day after tomorrow?"

Anthropomorphic fallacy.

A deity with human attributes is not omnipotent, not a 'god' – it is consequently unworthy of worship and devoid of moral and religious authority.

You have to wonder why this god isn’t even as good as you and I are. For example I would have given hitler a heart attack before he did what he did. Any pedophile or rapist would have heart attacks right before they committed their acts.

If god can watch a child get raped he’s fucked up if he could do something but doesn’t.

We are never to think of God's power in terms of what he could conceivably do by the exercise of what we may call sheer omnipotence which crushes all obstacles in its path. We are always to think of God's power in terms of his purpose. If what he did by sheer omnipotence defeated his purpose, then, however startling and impressive, it would be an expression of weakness, not of power. Indeed, a good definition of power is "ability to achieve purpose.

We must realize that God's power is not put forward to get certain things done, but to get them done in a certain way, and with certain results in the lives of those who do them.

Action, then, which defeats purpose is weakness. Power is the ability to fulfill purpose. No one knows what it cost God to refrain from intervention when men of ill will do evil things. But the restraint is not weakness.

MLK

Then I don’t believe anyone who says they were saved by a miracle. So god isn’t intervening ever. He didn’t save my friend Pete but then ignore the 4 year old being raped

 

[sealybobo]

So I guess I’m going to pose this question to you all: If there is a God (as outlined above) is there any evidence it really cares about you or my well being at a personal level?

I don't know about your life. Six incidents in my own life immediately sprang to mind that point to the actuality of God greatly caring for individuals on a deeply personal level.

I suspect what you want is the answer to, "How can I make God perform like that in my own life--and no later than day after tomorrow?"

Anthropomorphic fallacy.

A deity with human attributes is not omnipotent, not a 'god' – it is consequently unworthy of worship and devoid of moral and religious authority.

You have to wonder why this god isn’t even as good as you and I are. For example I would have given hitler a heart attack before he did what he did. Any pedophile or rapist would have heart attacks right before they committed their acts.

If god can watch a child get raped he’s fucked up if he could do something but doesn’t.

Obviously, you have absolutely no concept of the relationship between God and man - and you're the poorer for it.

I used to have a relationship with god so I know what it’s like to have an imaginary friend. Becoming an atheist is hard. You have to put aside fear and wishful thinking to see the truth

 

[Penelope]

So I guess I’m going to pose this question to you all: If there is a God (as outlined above) is there any evidence it really cares about you or my well being at a personal level?

I don't know about your life. Six incidents in my own life immediately sprang to mind that point to the actuality of God greatly caring for individuals on a deeply personal level.

I suspect what you want is the answer to, "How can I make God perform like that in my own life--and no later than day after tomorrow?"

Anthropomorphic fallacy.

A deity with human attributes is not omnipotent, not a 'god' – it is consequently unworthy of worship and devoid of moral and religious authority.

You have to wonder why this god isn’t even as good as you and I are. For example I would have given hitler a heart attack before he did what he did. Any pedophile or rapist would have heart attacks right before they committed their acts.

If god can watch a child get raped he’s fucked up if he could do something but doesn’t.

Obviously, you have absolutely no concept of the relationship between God and man - and you're the poorer for it.

I used to have a relationship with god so I know what it’s like to have an imaginary friend. Becoming an atheist is hard. You have to put aside fear and wishful thinking to see the truth

Kind of like, when I quit talking to God he quit talking to me. I know.

 

[ding]

So I guess I’m going to pose this question to you all: If there is a God (as outlined above) is there any evidence it really cares about you or my well being at a personal level?

I don't know about your life. Six incidents in my own life immediately sprang to mind that point to the actuality of God greatly caring for individuals on a deeply personal level.

I suspect what you want is the answer to, "How can I make God perform like that in my own life--and no later than day after tomorrow?"

Anthropomorphic fallacy.

A deity with human attributes is not omnipotent, not a 'god' – it is consequently unworthy of worship and devoid of moral and religious authority.

You have to wonder why this god isn’t even as good as you and I are. For example I would have given hitler a heart attack before he did what he did. Any pedophile or rapist would have heart attacks right before they committed their acts.

If god can watch a child get raped he’s fucked up if he could do something but doesn’t.

We are never to think of God's power in terms of what he could conceivably do by the exercise of what we may call sheer omnipotence which crushes all obstacles in its path. We are always to think of God's power in terms of his purpose. If what he did by sheer omnipotence defeated his purpose, then, however startling and impressive, it would be an expression of weakness, not of power. Indeed, a good definition of power is "ability to achieve purpose.

We must realize that God's power is not put forward to get certain things done, but to get them done in a certain way, and with certain results in the lives of those who do them.

Action, then, which defeats purpose is weakness. Power is the ability to fulfill purpose. No one knows what it cost God to refrain from intervention when men of ill will do evil things. But the restraint is not weakness.

MLK

Then I don’t believe anyone who says they were saved by a miracle. So god isn’t intervening ever. He didn’t save my friend Pete but then ignore the 4 year old being raped

Did you believe them before this? No.

Seems like no big loss then, amirite?

 

[ding]

So I guess I’m going to pose this question to you all: If there is a God (as outlined above) is there any evidence it really cares about you or my well being at a personal level?

I don't know about your life. Six incidents in my own life immediately sprang to mind that point to the actuality of God greatly caring for individuals on a deeply personal level.

I suspect what you want is the answer to, "How can I make God perform like that in my own life--and no later than day after tomorrow?"

Anthropomorphic fallacy.

A deity with human attributes is not omnipotent, not a 'god' – it is consequently unworthy of worship and devoid of moral and religious authority.

You have to wonder why this god isn’t even as good as you and I are. For example I would have given hitler a heart attack before he did what he did. Any pedophile or rapist would have heart attacks right before they committed their acts.

If god can watch a child get raped he’s fucked up if he could do something but doesn’t.

Obviously, you have absolutely no concept of the relationship between God and man - and you're the poorer for it.

I used to have a relationship with god so I know what it’s like to have an imaginary friend. Becoming an atheist is hard. You have to put aside fear and wishful thinking to see the truth

I thought you said you were an agnostic?

 

[sealybobo]

I don't know about your life. Six incidents in my own life immediately sprang to mind that point to the actuality of God greatly caring for individuals on a deeply personal level.

I suspect what you want is the answer to, "How can I make God perform like that in my own life--and no later than day after tomorrow?"

Anthropomorphic fallacy.

A deity with human attributes is not omnipotent, not a 'god' – it is consequently unworthy of worship and devoid of moral and religious authority.

You have to wonder why this god isn’t even as good as you and I are. For example I would have given hitler a heart attack before he did what he did. Any pedophile or rapist would have heart attacks right before they committed their acts.

If god can watch a child get raped he’s fucked up if he could do something but doesn’t.

We are never to think of God's power in terms of what he could conceivably do by the exercise of what we may call sheer omnipotence which crushes all obstacles in its path. We are always to think of God's power in terms of his purpose. If what he did by sheer omnipotence defeated his purpose, then, however startling and impressive, it would be an expression of weakness, not of power. Indeed, a good definition of power is "ability to achieve purpose.

We must realize that God's power is not put forward to get certain things done, but to get them done in a certain way, and with certain results in the lives of those who do them.

Action, then, which defeats purpose is weakness. Power is the ability to fulfill purpose. No one knows what it cost God to refrain from intervention when men of ill will do evil things. But the restraint is not weakness.

MLK

Then I don’t believe anyone who says they were saved by a miracle. So god isn’t intervening ever. He didn’t save my friend Pete but then ignore the 4 year old being raped

Did you believe them before this? No.

Seems like no big loss then, amirite?

It just confirms my beliefs. The idea my buddy Pete thinks he had a guardian angel save him yet right now some baby is being raped. Pete's an idiot. LOL.

 

[sealybobo]

I don't know about your life. Six incidents in my own life immediately sprang to mind that point to the actuality of God greatly caring for individuals on a deeply personal level.

I suspect what you want is the answer to, "How can I make God perform like that in my own life--and no later than day after tomorrow?"

Anthropomorphic fallacy.

A deity with human attributes is not omnipotent, not a 'god' – it is consequently unworthy of worship and devoid of moral and religious authority.

You have to wonder why this god isn’t even as good as you and I are. For example I would have given hitler a heart attack before he did what he did. Any pedophile or rapist would have heart attacks right before they committed their acts.

If god can watch a child get raped he’s fucked up if he could do something but doesn’t.

Obviously, you have absolutely no concept of the relationship between God and man - and you're the poorer for it.

I used to have a relationship with god so I know what it’s like to have an imaginary friend. Becoming an atheist is hard. You have to put aside fear and wishful thinking to see the truth

I thought you said you were an agnostic?

Some days. Regardless of what I believe I don't think it matters to the big guy amirite?

 

[sealybobo]

I don't know about your life. Six incidents in my own life immediately sprang to mind that point to the actuality of God greatly caring for individuals on a deeply personal level.

I suspect what you want is the answer to, "How can I make God perform like that in my own life--and no later than day after tomorrow?"

Anthropomorphic fallacy.

A deity with human attributes is not omnipotent, not a 'god' – it is consequently unworthy of worship and devoid of moral and religious authority.

You have to wonder why this god isn’t even as good as you and I are. For example I would have given hitler a heart attack before he did what he did. Any pedophile or rapist would have heart attacks right before they committed their acts.

If god can watch a child get raped he’s fucked up if he could do something but doesn’t.

Obviously, you have absolutely no concept of the relationship between God and man - and you're the poorer for it.

I used to have a relationship with god so I know what it’s like to have an imaginary friend. Becoming an atheist is hard. You have to put aside fear and wishful thinking to see the truth

Kind of like, when I quit talking to God he quit talking to me. I know.

When two friends fight, one of them has to be the bigger man. Who should that be me or god? LOL

 

[ding]

Anthropomorphic fallacy.

A deity with human attributes is not omnipotent, not a 'god' – it is consequently unworthy of worship and devoid of moral and religious authority.

You have to wonder why this god isn’t even as good as you and I are. For example I would have given hitler a heart attack before he did what he did. Any pedophile or rapist would have heart attacks right before they committed their acts.

If god can watch a child get raped he’s fucked up if he could do something but doesn’t.

We are never to think of God's power in terms of what he could conceivably do by the exercise of what we may call sheer omnipotence which crushes all obstacles in its path. We are always to think of God's power in terms of his purpose. If what he did by sheer omnipotence defeated his purpose, then, however startling and impressive, it would be an expression of weakness, not of power. Indeed, a good definition of power is "ability to achieve purpose.

We must realize that God's power is not put forward to get certain things done, but to get them done in a certain way, and with certain results in the lives of those who do them.

Action, then, which defeats purpose is weakness. Power is the ability to fulfill purpose. No one knows what it cost God to refrain from intervention when men of ill will do evil things. But the restraint is not weakness.

MLK

Then I don’t believe anyone who says they were saved by a miracle. So god isn’t intervening ever. He didn’t save my friend Pete but then ignore the 4 year old being raped

Did you believe them before this? No.

Seems like no big loss then, amirite?

It just confirms my beliefs. The idea my buddy Pete thinks he had a guardian angel save him yet right now some baby is being raped. Pete's an idiot. LOL.

Only time will tell who are the idiots among us.

 

[ding]

Anthropomorphic fallacy.

A deity with human attributes is not omnipotent, not a 'god' – it is consequently unworthy of worship and devoid of moral and religious authority.

You have to wonder why this god isn’t even as good as you and I are. For example I would have given hitler a heart attack before he did what he did. Any pedophile or rapist would have heart attacks right before they committed their acts.

If god can watch a child get raped he’s fucked up if he could do something but doesn’t.

Obviously, you have absolutely no concept of the relationship between God and man - and you're the poorer for it.

I used to have a relationship with god so I know what it’s like to have an imaginary friend. Becoming an atheist is hard. You have to put aside fear and wishful thinking to see the truth

I thought you said you were an agnostic?

Some days. Regardless of what I believe I don't think it matters to the big guy amirite?

He said it matters more to you. He'll be fine.

 

[sealybobo]

So I guess I’m going to pose this question to you all: If there is a God (as outlined above) is there any evidence it really cares about you or my well being at a personal level?

I don't know about your life. Six incidents in my own life immediately sprang to mind that point to the actuality of God greatly caring for individuals on a deeply personal level.

I suspect what you want is the answer to, "How can I make God perform like that in my own life--and no later than day after tomorrow?"

Anthropomorphic fallacy.

A deity with human attributes is not omnipotent, not a 'god' – it is consequently unworthy of worship and devoid of moral and religious authority.

You have to wonder why this god isn’t even as good as you and I are. For example I would have given hitler a heart attack before he did what he did. Any pedophile or rapist would have heart attacks right before they committed their acts.

If god can watch a child get raped he’s fucked up if he could do something but doesn’t.

Obviously, you have absolutely no concept of the relationship between God and man - and you're the poorer for it.

Of course I'm the poorer for it.

“I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking. The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there’s little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.” – Carl Sagan

“I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.” – Mark Twain

It's like ice figure skating in the olypmics. I wish I could love it even half that much as some of you do. But no matter what I can't get into that crappy sport.

 

[sealybobo]

You have to wonder why this god isn’t even as good as you and I are. For example I would have given hitler a heart attack before he did what he did. Any pedophile or rapist would have heart attacks right before they committed their acts.

If god can watch a child get raped he’s fucked up if he could do something but doesn’t.

Obviously, you have absolutely no concept of the relationship between God and man - and you're the poorer for it.

I used to have a relationship with god so I know what it’s like to have an imaginary friend. Becoming an atheist is hard. You have to put aside fear and wishful thinking to see the truth

I thought you said you were an agnostic?

Some days. Regardless of what I believe I don't think it matters to the big guy amirite?

He said it matters more to you. He'll be fine.

“I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.” – Mark Twain