If there is a God...

[sealybobo]

A key problem, acknowledged even by Pascal, is that one cannot force oneself to believe. That is, Disbelief Is Not a Choice. If one thinks religious doctrines are false, it’s hard to imagine that pretending to believe them will dupe an all-powerful, all-knowing God. To this, Pascal and his defenders urge the nonbeliever to at least try to believe. “Endeavor then to convince yourself,” he advised the skeptic.

Even taking this advice, however, one still must ask: Which religion should I believe? Are the Christians right, or is it the Muslims? Or should I convert to Judaism? Or Hinduism, Buddhism or something else? And the questions don’t stop there, since exclusive sectarian differences within these religions narrow the likelihood of selecting the “right” belief even further. Catholic, Protestant, or Orthodox? Calvinist or Lutheran? Sunni or Shia? What if, of all the conflicting religious doctrines out there, the one verse that is right is Revelation 7:4, which says that only 144,000 people will enter heaven? The odds aren't good for any of us.

I am from a family of atheists--none of whom will ever be found on a religion forum, any more than I would ever be found on an atheist forum. You people are unlike any atheist I know. You don't believe--so what! Why are you here on a religion forum excusing your non-belief? What do you get from telling people of faith that you have an extremely skewed view of the Bible, but that this skewed view should be taken seriously by people of faith when even you do not take it seriously?

My own opinion is that perhaps even people of faith rely too much on the Bible and spend too much time on ancient stories instead of working on their own stories. God did not just show up in the lives of early man and then disappear. He is every bit here today as He was then. And, I'm willing to bet, not all stories of God back then made it into the Bible. Certainly no stories since have. Perhaps modern man needs to make known their own stories so that people of future generations know that God is always with us, and He can be found.

Worrying about the "correct" faith or denomination is a no-brainer. Choose the one that draws you closer to God, remembering it will do you no good at all if you cannot incorporate those teachings and those practices into your daily life. As an atheist, my husband is content with doing the best he can relying on himself to be a good person. He is convinced if there is a God, God will be the first to understand his non-belief. And...that non-belief doesn't require the stupid excuse of non-belief because bad things happen to babies.

Don't worry about my reasons. Maybe I'm the devil! LOL. And what are YOU doing in a subject titled "IF there is a god?" Don't come here if you are too sensitive bro. Wrong place for the unsure. And if you truly believed, why would you feel anything other than pitty for me? You should be so happy every day you get closer and closer to the ultimate vacation.

And I'm sorry we don't meet your expectation of atheists. For the record, this is what your relatives would sound like if they came to a religious forum. Do you think I talk this shit to my friends and family? Not the ones who are sensitive. I leave them alone.

You'll notice I never go into a Christian forum where people are talking about god and say THERE IS NO GOD. I only do that on appropriate threads. This is one of those threads. It lured you in just like it lured me in. Why you stay I don't know. I know why I stay. I enjoy the shit out of this.

What's my beef? I think religion makes people stupid. Controllable sheep. I see our society and I say holy crap what a bunch of dumb sheep. And religion I think is a key part of keeping us dumb.

 

[sealybobo]

A key problem, acknowledged even by Pascal, is that one cannot force oneself to believe. That is, Disbelief Is Not a Choice. If one thinks religious doctrines are false, it’s hard to imagine that pretending to believe them will dupe an all-powerful, all-knowing God. To this, Pascal and his defenders urge the nonbeliever to at least try to believe. “Endeavor then to convince yourself,” he advised the skeptic.

Even taking this advice, however, one still must ask: Which religion should I believe? Are the Christians right, or is it the Muslims? Or should I convert to Judaism? Or Hinduism, Buddhism or something else? And the questions don’t stop there, since exclusive sectarian differences within these religions narrow the likelihood of selecting the “right” belief even further. Catholic, Protestant, or Orthodox? Calvinist or Lutheran? Sunni or Shia? What if, of all the conflicting religious doctrines out there, the one verse that is right is Revelation 7:4, which says that only 144,000 people will enter heaven? The odds aren't good for any of us.

I am from a family of atheists--none of whom will ever be found on a religion forum, any more than I would ever be found on an atheist forum. You people are unlike any atheist I know. You don't believe--so what! Why are you here on a religion forum excusing your non-belief? What do you get from telling people of faith that you have an extremely skewed view of the Bible, but that this skewed view should be taken seriously by people of faith when even you do not take it seriously?

My own opinion is that perhaps even people of faith rely too much on the Bible and spend too much time on ancient stories instead of working on their own stories. God did not just show up in the lives of early man and then disappear. He is every bit here today as He was then. And, I'm willing to bet, not all stories of God back then made it into the Bible. Certainly no stories since have. Perhaps modern man needs to make known their own stories so that people of future generations know that God is always with us, and He can be found.

Worrying about the "correct" faith or denomination is a no-brainer. Choose the one that draws you closer to God, remembering it will do you no good at all if you cannot incorporate those teachings and those practices into your daily life. As an atheist, my husband is content with doing the best he can relying on himself to be a good person. He is convinced if there is a God, God will be the first to understand his non-belief. And...that non-belief doesn't require the stupid excuse of non-belief because bad things happen to babies.

None of them appeal to me.

 

[Meriweather]

Don't worry about my reasons. Maybe I'm the devil! LOL. And what are YOU doing in a subject titled "IF there is a god?" Don't come here if you are too sensitive bro. Wrong place for the unsure. And if you truly believed, why would you feel anything other than pitty for me? You should be so happy every day you get closer and closer to the ultimate vacation.

And I'm sorry we don't meet your expectation of atheists. For the record, this is what your relatives would sound like if they came to a religious forum. Do you think I talk this shit to my friends and family? Not the ones who are sensitive. I leave them alone.

You'll notice I never go into a Christian forum where people are talking about god and say THERE IS NO GOD. I only do that on appropriate threads. This is one of those threads. It lured you in just like it lured me in. Why you stay I don't know. I know why I stay. I enjoy the shit out of this.

What's my beef? I think religion makes people stupid. Controllable sheep. I see our society and I say holy crap what a bunch of dumb sheep. And religion I think is a key part of keeping us dumb.

No, you are not the devil. And why should I feel pity for you? We are in the hands of a loving God.

The point is they would not sound like you because they would not be here in the first place. Besides, if they have trouble with people who want to "save" them they come to me for advice on how to get these people off their backs. They also come to me during the rare times they wish they did believe and could say a prayer. So, if you don't talk about this to your friends and family, I'm even more surprised. Do you guys not understand each other's beliefs (or non-beliefs) at all?

Keep in mind, the bahing you hear are likely atheist sheep.

 

[Taz]

Don't worry about my reasons. Maybe I'm the devil! LOL. And what are YOU doing in a subject titled "IF there is a god?" Don't come here if you are too sensitive bro. Wrong place for the unsure. And if you truly believed, why would you feel anything other than pitty for me? You should be so happy every day you get closer and closer to the ultimate vacation.

And I'm sorry we don't meet your expectation of atheists. For the record, this is what your relatives would sound like if they came to a religious forum. Do you think I talk this shit to my friends and family? Not the ones who are sensitive. I leave them alone.

You'll notice I never go into a Christian forum where people are talking about god and say THERE IS NO GOD. I only do that on appropriate threads. This is one of those threads. It lured you in just like it lured me in. Why you stay I don't know. I know why I stay. I enjoy the shit out of this.

What's my beef? I think religion makes people stupid. Controllable sheep. I see our society and I say holy crap what a bunch of dumb sheep. And religion I think is a key part of keeping us dumb.

No, you are not the devil. And why should I feel pity for you? We are in the hands of a loving God.

The point is they would not sound like you because they would not be here in the first place. Besides, if they have trouble with people who want to "save" them they come to me for advice on how to get these people off their backs. They also come to me during the rare times they wish they did believe and could say a prayer. So, if you don't talk about this to your friends and family, I'm even more surprised. Do you guys not understand each other's beliefs (or non-beliefs) at all?

Keep in mind, the bahing you hear are likely atheist sheep.

The loving god who drowned nearly everyone in a flood it created? That loving god? The one that retaliated by killing everyone's first born in Egypt? That COOL guy?

 

[sealybobo]

Don't worry about my reasons. Maybe I'm the devil! LOL. And what are YOU doing in a subject titled "IF there is a god?" Don't come here if you are too sensitive bro. Wrong place for the unsure. And if you truly believed, why would you feel anything other than pitty for me? You should be so happy every day you get closer and closer to the ultimate vacation.

And I'm sorry we don't meet your expectation of atheists. For the record, this is what your relatives would sound like if they came to a religious forum. Do you think I talk this shit to my friends and family? Not the ones who are sensitive. I leave them alone.

You'll notice I never go into a Christian forum where people are talking about god and say THERE IS NO GOD. I only do that on appropriate threads. This is one of those threads. It lured you in just like it lured me in. Why you stay I don't know. I know why I stay. I enjoy the shit out of this.

What's my beef? I think religion makes people stupid. Controllable sheep. I see our society and I say holy crap what a bunch of dumb sheep. And religion I think is a key part of keeping us dumb.

No, you are not the devil. And why should I feel pity for you? We are in the hands of a loving God.

The point is they would not sound like you because they would not be here in the first place. Besides, if they have trouble with people who want to "save" them they come to me for advice on how to get these people off their backs. They also come to me during the rare times they wish they did believe and could say a prayer. So, if you don't talk about this to your friends and family, I'm even more surprised. Do you guys not understand each other's beliefs (or non-beliefs) at all?

Keep in mind, the bahing you hear are likely atheist sheep.

no I don't want to hurt my brother's feelings. I suspect he has his doubts too but he also has faith. I don't and that's ok. Not having faith is what makes me happy. And I think for all the good religion does people, it's a bad thing ultimately. A lie is a lie no matter how good it makes you feel and you would want to know you were being told a lie even if the truth made you feel good, right? I would. The truth doesn't scare me one bit.

My nephews ask me why I don't go to church more often and no it is not my place to tell his kids that god doesn't exist. I think it's fair that I tell them but it's not my place I guess. I guess my brother and his wife should have 18 years head start brainwashing them and I'll wait till they are adults but by then they've already been brainwashed for 18 years. Still all I say is, "I am religious I go to a mosque. I'm muslim". Then they laugh.

They just assume I don't like church they don't think I don't believe in god. I remember one of my nephews suggested someone he knew didn't believe in god and that must make him a bad person. I just laughed because he worships me. I couldn't tell him I'm a "bad person". LOL.

This is not a conversation you can have with most theists. Makes most of them very uncomfortable. We've run more theists off from these discussions than you can imagine. I guess after awhile they get frustrated and figure TO HELL with us.

If their faith is strong, and if your faith is strong, you should not mind my doubt or coming here to express my thoughts. But your reply was typical when a theists gets frustrated with a militant atheist they get all defensive.

“I’m sorry if my insensitivity towards your beliefs offends you. But guess what – your religious wars, jihads, crusades, inquisitions, censoring of free speech, brainwashing of children, forcing girls into underage marriages, female genital mutilation, stoning, pederasty, homophobia and rejection of science and reason offend me. So I guess we’re even.” – Anonymous

 

[sealybobo]

Don't worry about my reasons. Maybe I'm the devil! LOL. And what are YOU doing in a subject titled "IF there is a god?" Don't come here if you are too sensitive bro. Wrong place for the unsure. And if you truly believed, why would you feel anything other than pitty for me? You should be so happy every day you get closer and closer to the ultimate vacation.

And I'm sorry we don't meet your expectation of atheists. For the record, this is what your relatives would sound like if they came to a religious forum. Do you think I talk this shit to my friends and family? Not the ones who are sensitive. I leave them alone.

You'll notice I never go into a Christian forum where people are talking about god and say THERE IS NO GOD. I only do that on appropriate threads. This is one of those threads. It lured you in just like it lured me in. Why you stay I don't know. I know why I stay. I enjoy the shit out of this.

What's my beef? I think religion makes people stupid. Controllable sheep. I see our society and I say holy crap what a bunch of dumb sheep. And religion I think is a key part of keeping us dumb.

No, you are not the devil. And why should I feel pity for you? We are in the hands of a loving God.

The point is they would not sound like you because they would not be here in the first place. Besides, if they have trouble with people who want to "save" them they come to me for advice on how to get these people off their backs. They also come to me during the rare times they wish they did believe and could say a prayer. So, if you don't talk about this to your friends and family, I'm even more surprised. Do you guys not understand each other's beliefs (or non-beliefs) at all?

Keep in mind, the bahing you hear are likely atheist sheep.

The loving god who drowned nearly everyone in a flood it created? That loving god? The one that retaliated by killing everyone's first born in Egypt? That COOL guy?

Thank you.

 

[sealybobo]

Don't worry about my reasons. Maybe I'm the devil! LOL. And what are YOU doing in a subject titled "IF there is a god?" Don't come here if you are too sensitive bro. Wrong place for the unsure. And if you truly believed, why would you feel anything other than pitty for me? You should be so happy every day you get closer and closer to the ultimate vacation.

And I'm sorry we don't meet your expectation of atheists. For the record, this is what your relatives would sound like if they came to a religious forum. Do you think I talk this shit to my friends and family? Not the ones who are sensitive. I leave them alone.

You'll notice I never go into a Christian forum where people are talking about god and say THERE IS NO GOD. I only do that on appropriate threads. This is one of those threads. It lured you in just like it lured me in. Why you stay I don't know. I know why I stay. I enjoy the shit out of this.

What's my beef? I think religion makes people stupid. Controllable sheep. I see our society and I say holy crap what a bunch of dumb sheep. And religion I think is a key part of keeping us dumb.

No, you are not the devil. And why should I feel pity for you? We are in the hands of a loving God.

The point is they would not sound like you because they would not be here in the first place. Besides, if they have trouble with people who want to "save" them they come to me for advice on how to get these people off their backs. They also come to me during the rare times they wish they did believe and could say a prayer. So, if you don't talk about this to your friends and family, I'm even more surprised. Do you guys not understand each other's beliefs (or non-beliefs) at all?

Keep in mind, the bahing you hear are likely atheist sheep.

How do you know they aren't here in the first place? My family doesn't know I'm here. I try to have these conversations with my father but he's impossibly ignorant to science logic and reason. He keeps telling me, "there must be, how else could everything be so perfect....." I try to explain to him that's a bad answer but he just won't listen.

Anything that happened 2000 years or more ago he doesn't believe science. "how do they know" he asks me. Now do you think he will listen if I try to explain to him how they know? No way. Or show him a youtube explaining evolution? You can't teach an old dog new tricks especially if he's deaf or not listening.

 

[ValerieYanez]

 

[sealybobo]

Do you want to see the Muslim Delusion or the Mormon delusion? How does it make you feel when Jews agree with us atheists that Jesus was just a nice guy? And how is it you and I both understand that Islam and Mormons are a joke but you can't understand that to me, there's no difference between you and them.

So while I agree with Mormons and Jews on some things, ultimately they are your retarded cousins. Never forget that.

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” – Stephen F Roberts

 

[Meriweather]

no I don't want to hurt my brother's feelings. I suspect he has his doubts too but he also has faith. I don't and that's ok. Not having faith is what makes me happy. And I think for all the good religion does people, it's a bad thing ultimately. A lie is a lie no matter how good it makes you feel and you would want to know you were being told a lie even if the truth made you feel good, right? I would. The truth doesn't scare me one bit.

My nephews ask me why I don't go to church more often and no it is not my place to tell his kids that god doesn't exist. I think it's fair that I tell them but it's not my place I guess. I guess my brother and his wife should have 18 years head start brainwashing them and I'll wait till they are adults but by then they've already been brainwashed for 18 years. Still all I say is, "I am religious I go to a mosque. I'm muslim". Then they laugh.

They just assume I don't like church they don't think I don't believe in god. I remember one of my nephews suggested someone he knew didn't believe in god and that must make him a bad person. I just laughed because he worships me. I couldn't tell him I'm a "bad person". LOL.

This is not a conversation you can have with most theists. Makes most of them very uncomfortable. We've run more theists off from these discussions than you can imagine. I guess after awhile they get frustrated and figure TO HELL with us.

If their faith is strong, and if your faith is strong, you should not mind my doubt or coming here to express my thoughts. But your reply was typical when a theists gets frustrated with a militant atheist they get all defensive.

Shrug. Maybe growing up in a family that had atheists, and then marrying into an atheist family has made it different for me. No one is hurt. No one is upset. We talk about belief/non-belief frequently--perhaps to check in to see if anyone has changed their minds. Trust me. No atheist in my family posts on a religion forum--they think it is silly for a non-believer to talk about non-belief.

My very Catholic grandmother was an enthusiastic student of evolution. My very Catholic mother wasn't. Every person of faith in my family gets very different things from their belief in God.

No, it is not your place to tell your nephews God does not exist. However, I don't see any problem with telling your nephews that you have no belief in God. My grandfather and I had no problem with such discussions. I never heard people insisting atheists were bad. I would have refuted it if they had.

 

[BreezeWood]

.
it's their christian god they are talking about shaped for them in their 4th century book is what they recognize as they were led to believe by those who believe as they do, put in writing for them, a political manifestation pleasing to their kind, nothing more.

This is a poor guess by an onlooker not too familiar with either Christianity or history.

.

This is a poor guess by an onlooker not too familiar with either Christianity or history.

dishonesty is the qualifier for the desert religions persistence over matters of truth.

 

[sealybobo]

no I don't want to hurt my brother's feelings. I suspect he has his doubts too but he also has faith. I don't and that's ok. Not having faith is what makes me happy. And I think for all the good religion does people, it's a bad thing ultimately. A lie is a lie no matter how good it makes you feel and you would want to know you were being told a lie even if the truth made you feel good, right? I would. The truth doesn't scare me one bit.

My nephews ask me why I don't go to church more often and no it is not my place to tell his kids that god doesn't exist. I think it's fair that I tell them but it's not my place I guess. I guess my brother and his wife should have 18 years head start brainwashing them and I'll wait till they are adults but by then they've already been brainwashed for 18 years. Still all I say is, "I am religious I go to a mosque. I'm muslim". Then they laugh.

They just assume I don't like church they don't think I don't believe in god. I remember one of my nephews suggested someone he knew didn't believe in god and that must make him a bad person. I just laughed because he worships me. I couldn't tell him I'm a "bad person". LOL.

This is not a conversation you can have with most theists. Makes most of them very uncomfortable. We've run more theists off from these discussions than you can imagine. I guess after awhile they get frustrated and figure TO HELL with us.

If their faith is strong, and if your faith is strong, you should not mind my doubt or coming here to express my thoughts. But your reply was typical when a theists gets frustrated with a militant atheist they get all defensive.

Shrug. Maybe growing up in a family that had atheists, and then marrying into an atheist family has made it different for me. No one is hurt. No one is upset. We talk about belief/non-belief frequently--perhaps to check in to see if anyone has changed their minds. Trust me. No atheist in my family posts on a religion forum--they think it is silly for a non-believer to talk about non-belief.

My very Catholic grandmother was an enthusiastic student of evolution. My very Catholic mother wasn't. Every person of faith in my family gets very different things from their belief in God.

No, it is not your place to tell your nephews God does not exist. However, I don't see any problem with telling your nephews that you have no belief in God. My grandfather and I had no problem with such discussions. I never heard people insisting atheists were bad. I would have refuted it if they had.

So you see atheists aren’t bad. Good. Google this; poll shows most people would rather vote for a pot smoking philanderer than an atheist.

There are a lot of theists who take it very personally

Trust me I seek out the open minded. Somehow we find each other even though supposedly we are a very small minority. Oddly enough we usually find each other right after services. Some say the atheists most powerful argument is religions.

 

[ding]

Maybe I'm the devil!

Want to take the test?

 

[sealybobo]

I vote for theists all the time. Ask them why they won’t vote for an atheist

 

[sealybobo]

Maybe I'm the devil!

Want to take the test?

Yes!

 

[ding]

We've run more theists off from these discussions than you can imagine.

Who's we?

I guess after awhile they get frustrated and figure TO HELL with us.

Never.

If their faith is strong, and if your faith is strong, you should not mind my doubt or coming here to express my thoughts. But your reply was typical when a theists gets frustrated with a militant atheist they get all defensive.

You mean your goal isn't to make them defensive?

 

[ding]

Maybe I'm the devil!

Want to take the test?

Yes!

OK, I'm making this shit up as I go.

1. Does God exist?

 

[sealybobo]

We've run more theists off from these discussions than you can imagine.

Who's we?

I guess after awhile they get frustrated and figure TO HELL with us.

Never.

If their faith is strong, and if your faith is strong, you should not mind my doubt or coming here to express my thoughts. But your reply was typical when a theists gets frustrated with a militant atheist they get all defensive.

You mean your goal isn't to make them defensive?

Us atheists. I didn’t say run off in defeat just left. This discussion didn’t interest them.

 

[sealybobo]

We've run more theists off from these discussions than you can imagine.

Who's we?

I guess after awhile they get frustrated and figure TO HELL with us.

Never.

If their faith is strong, and if your faith is strong, you should not mind my doubt or coming here to express my thoughts. But your reply was typical when a theists gets frustrated with a militant atheist they get all defensive.

You mean your goal isn't to make them defensive?

Ideally I’d love to find a way to convert you all.

But you got to really want it before the truth will reveal itself

 

[ding]

We've run more theists off from these discussions than you can imagine.

Who's we?

I guess after awhile they get frustrated and figure TO HELL with us.

Never.

If their faith is strong, and if your faith is strong, you should not mind my doubt or coming here to express my thoughts. But your reply was typical when a theists gets frustrated with a militant atheist they get all defensive.

You mean your goal isn't to make them defensive?

Us atheists. I didn’t say run off in defeat just left. This discussion didn’t interest them.

Us atheists isn't very helpful. Don't you know their names?