If Trickle Down Economics doesn't work, then how do you explain the love for Stimulus?

[themirrorthief]

When 10 percent of the people control most of the wealth in a nation where $20 per hour doesn't pay the bills anymore, times are getting tougher. Many say how great things were....poo poo on that this is and never has been some kind of dream for most. It's called working out a subsistence through hard work. People today work harder and are more productive than ever yet their standard of living isn't increasing.

People work harder? You honestly say this with so many refusing jobs because the government is paying them more not to work?

Those who are benefitting the most from the trillions of dollars that is being pumped into the markets are not working for that money.

jealous??? get a government job and cash in also dude

 

[themirrorthief]

In our system some people have to be poor. So we help them. It's the biggest reason for our exceptionalism. We are founded on judeo Christian values and Christ was about helping the poor first and foremost.

Right, because Jesus wants poor people to starve...

Jesus commands all Christians to feed and clothe the poor yet says nothing about having the State being involved so they can pay off their cronies, unions, and bureaucrats and then feed and clothe the poor on what is left over.

Mandatory tithing, in their laws, provided for the poor....tithing was equivalent to taxing. They were a theocracy.

Go read the Bible. It makes a clear delineation between Church and State. The Romans were the State. Hardly a theocracy.

they had this thing called a Pope

 

[pknopp]

When 10 percent of the people control most of the wealth in a nation where $20 per hour doesn't pay the bills anymore, times are getting tougher. Many say how great things were....poo poo on that this is and never has been some kind of dream for most. It's called working out a subsistence through hard work. People today work harder and are more productive than ever yet their standard of living isn't increasing.

People work harder? You honestly say this with so many refusing jobs because the government is paying them more not to work?

Those who are benefitting the most from the trillions of dollars that is being pumped into the markets are not working for that money.

jealous??? get a government job and cash in also dude

Discussing something honestly does not equate to being jealous. Your reply simply means you can not address what I said any other way.

 

[WTH_Progs?]

If socialism is so awesome, how come the mass exodus in the left's flagship State of California, is it the tornadoes?

Why the great wealth disparity in California?

 

[forkup]

Same applies to all economic conditions, established standards.

Except for apparently "trickle-down" economics. Since I've yet to see any actual quantitative report that it actually did anything but allowed for huge stock buybacks.

The only difference is the govt. is spreading the money generating public debt

Which they then suggest offsetting by increasing tax rates on the wealthy. As opposed to cutting taxes and suggesting it'll be offset by the Chimera of increased economic activity generated by higher wages.

with among other things hope to generate growth.

Those other things include stuff like affordable healthcare, accessible education, and other entitlement programs. Concrete policy initiatives that have a direct benefit for the majority of Americans. Growth is not a primary function. Helping people directly is.

. Again, it's up and down, down causes up, back down again etc. etc. The idea for stimulus is exactly the same.

It is most definitely not the same, for the reasons I described.

No shit predictable huh?

Yes, no shit predictable. 1400 dollars for people earning x-amount of money is predictable. Getting money from the government so you can keep open your business is predictable, etc., etc.

Then why all the hiring signs?

This is so anecdotal I can't respond. Give a concrete example, please?

O'bummercare stagnated growth and raised taxes.

Prove it. And by the way, it also insured millions of people who weren't before. Economic growth is only one parameter for measuring the actual health of a society, and I would argue not the best one. Since a lot of economic growth is concentrated in a small portion of the populace. Which is of course the point.

sk me how I know, govt. buildings, ask me how I know, and govt. infrastructure where a days work took weeks ask me how I know, and giant steel animals they call art ask me how I know.

Word salad.

Reflecting on the OP, since trickle down is just a philosophy then it's safe to say you're more likely to receive a raise if the govt. takes more money.

Nope, you are simply more likely to not need raises in order to pay for things like healthcare or sending your kid to college.
It's why I said you are conflating.

Say goodbye to USA military force those countries depend on yo cover their ass.

The US spends about 3 percent of its GDP on the military. It however spends about 17 percent on its for-profit healthcare system. Germany, a Social Democracy, spends 11.5 percent on healthcare, and 1.2 on its military. Meaning that Germany could spend the same amount on its military add it to its healthcare system, (just one entitlement) program, and still have spend less of its GDP than the US does on its for-profit healthcare system alone. Military Spending By Country 2021 Current health expenditure (% of GDP) | Data

)I picked Germany because they were represented prominently in both tables.)

 

[Mac-7]

But a minority of them are coming here for economic reasons. Which is the sector that republicans focus on. Clouding who is coming here and why.

If you are searching for the next great foreign mind and contributor to the US economy such as Elon Must dont expect to find him among the shoeless peasants pouring in uninvited from Central America

Some of which dont even speak Spanish much less English

We admit more legal immigrants than any other country

And if we improved the system even more by only allowing merit based immigration the US would leap forward

Whereas placing your bets on the castoffs of Africa and South America gets you nothing

 

[dudmuck]

If socialism is so awesome, how come the mass exodus in the left's flagship State of California, is it the tornadoes?

Why the great wealth disparity in California?

supply <-> demand for housing.

the wealth disparity is the whole country, not just california.

 

[meaner gene]

trickle down means if a rich guy has money, he might be able to give you a job...if the government takes all his money via taxes...he will have to lay you off cause big brother has the money instead of him

What about the principle of "buy american?"
Jeff Bezos took the money that Amazon wasn't paying in taxes, and spent $1/2 billion to help the economy. Except that economy was that of the Neatherlands.

Jeff Bezos buys $500M superyacht amid luxury industry boom

It will likely cost at least $500 million, and is one of the largest sailing yachts ever built in the Netherlands, the ...

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You give someone with 20 million dollars another 5 million they don't have a reason to spend that. They already have enough to buy what they want.

Who gave that guy another $5 million? How?

 

[meaner gene]

And if we improved the system even more by only allowing merit based immigration the US would leap forward

And how do you measure merit.

There are thousands of historic cases of immigrants who came to our shores with nothing but the clothes on their backs, and afterward creating successful businesses that now employ hundreds and thousands, and created wealth for themselves and the nation. The classic rags to riches "american dream"

Yet those very people would be excluded from coming here.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Jeff Bezos took the money that Amazon wasn't paying in taxes, and spent $1/2 billion to help the economy. Except that economy was that of the Neatherlands.

Amazon pays taxes on profits. On which profit did they fail to pay $1/2 billion in taxes? Link?

 

[pknopp]

You give someone with 20 million dollars another 5 million they don't have a reason to spend that. They already have enough to buy what they want.

Who gave that guy another $5 million? How?

Please.

 

[meaner gene]

Jeff Bezos took the money that Amazon wasn't paying in taxes, and spent $1/2 billion to help the economy. Except that economy was that of the Neatherlands.

Amazon pays taxes on profits. On which profit did they fail to pay $1/2 billion in taxes? Link?

In 2018, Amazon posted income of more than $11 billion, but the company paid $0 in federal taxes. In fact, thanks to tax credits and deductions, ...

I thought everybody knew this?

 

[meaner gene]

You give someone with 20 million dollars another 5 million they don't have a reason to spend that. They already have enough to buy what they want.

Who gave that guy another $5 million? How?

Please.

In 2018, Amazon posted income of more than $11 billion, but the company paid $0 in federal taxes. In fact, thanks to tax credits and deductions, ...

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The left loves stimulus, so long as it's driven by dementia instead of the orange man.

But the left hates trickle down. In their minds the more you take from employers the more likely employees are to get a raise. Let's call it what it is instead, they desire govt. entitlements, because that's the only other direction, and that starves a country under socialism. But the PROGS talk anyway, they do that a lot. In PROG, the less money you make the better car you drive, debt & bad decisions are personal too.

Trickle down economics is just a term. For those who think rationally it's really up & down, an exchange of money ongoing. If that shit don't work, then explain why economic stimulus is different, go!

I'll give it a go.

You are conflating 2 different things.

Economic stimulis is giving money to people or businesses who qualify for it by a predetermined set of standards.

Trickle down economics is the idea that as profit increases so do wages of those employed.

The first is predictable and easily quantified in its outcome. The second is a philosophy that is neither.

As to your first paragraph.

Yes, we want more entitlements. The reason being that unlike trickledown economics the available funds are guaranteed to help the employed and... yes also the unemployed and other people in need. It doesn't "starve" a country as countless Western countries have proved. It leads to a higher standard of living and more happiness of the populace on the whole.

I have only one question...

Isn't the Trickle Down used to justify tax cuts... Tax Cuts might increase after tax profit but not before tax..

Any business man will tell you that taxes (unless specifically targeted) have very little influence over your day to day decisions in a company... This is explained in the Laffer curve... Wealth US could be paying 10% more tax tomorrow and they wouldn't change the way they conduct business... They just think I have to make more to keep making the same.

Businesses don't say that we are taking 10% of profit so we won't do that... NO! they say we will take as much profit as possible...

Trickle Down doesn't hold in theory and is a joke in reality...

As for the OP... He has just shown us that he is too ill informed on the topic to have a worthwhile opinion...

Tax Cuts might increase after tax profit but not before tax..

Really? I might start a new business or expand an existing business, after a tax cut.
Both would increase before tax profit.

This is explained in the Laffer curve...

I don't think the Laffer Curve mentions day to day business decisions in a company.

Trickle Down doesn't hold in theory

What is "Trickle Down Theory"? Link?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You give someone with 20 million dollars another 5 million they don't have a reason to spend that. They already have enough to buy what they want.

Who gave that guy another $5 million? How?

Please.

I see you're unable to explain.

 

[LeftofLeft]

In our system some people have to be poor. So we help them. It's the biggest reason for our exceptionalism. We are founded on judeo Christian values and Christ was about helping the poor first and foremost.

Right, because Jesus wants poor people to starve...

Jesus commands all Christians to feed and clothe the poor yet says nothing about having the State being involved so they can pay off their cronies, unions, and bureaucrats and then feed and clothe the poor on what is left over.

Mandatory tithing, in their laws, provided for the poor....tithing was equivalent to taxing. They were a theocracy.

Go read the Bible. It makes a clear delineation between Church and State. The Romans were the State. Hardly a theocracy.

they had this thing called a Pope

not when Jesus was here.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Jeff Bezos took the money that Amazon wasn't paying in taxes, and spent $1/2 billion to help the economy. Except that economy was that of the Neatherlands.

Amazon pays taxes on profits. On which profit did they fail to pay $1/2 billion in taxes? Link?

In 2018, Amazon posted income of more than $11 billion, but the company paid $0 in federal taxes. In fact, thanks to tax credits and deductions, ...

I thought everybody knew this?

thanks to tax credits and deductions, ...

Sounds awful!! Can you explain these "tax credits and deductions" that everyone knows about?

 

[Mac-7]

Socialism is not at all about redistribution of wealth as you seem to be implying.
All socialism means is that you collectively create a jointly owned means of production instead of having to buy from a private source you have no say in and charges what the market will bear.

Socialism has evolved over the past 40 years and is now less marxist and more fascist instead

Which are both socialist of slightly different variety

Now the largest and oldest socialist organization has renounced classic marxist socialism and adopted the Hitler and Mussolini fascist economic model instead

What is Democratic Socialism? - Democratic Socialists of America (DSA)

Democratic socialists believe that both the economy and society should be run democratically—to meet public needs, not to make profits for a few.

www.dsausa.org

 

[Care4all]

The left loves stimulus, so long as it's driven by dementia instead of the orange man.

But the left hates trickle down. In their minds the more you take from employers the more likely employees are to get a raise. Let's call it what it is instead, they desire govt. entitlements, because that's the only other direction, and that starves a country under socialism. But the PROGS talk anyway, they do that a lot. In PROG, the less money you make the better car you drive, debt & bad decisions are personal too.

Trickle down economics is just a term. For those who think rationally it's really up & down, an exchange of money ongoing. If that shit don't work, then explain why economic stimulus is different, go!

trickle down means if a rich guy has money, he might be able to give you a job...if the government takes all his money via taxes...he will have to lay you off cause big brother has the money instead of him

It doesn't really work that way...

The worker's pay and benefits are a 100% tax write off.

Higher taxes on corporations or big businesses generally encourage businesses to invest in their business to grow their business, more employees hired, instead of handing their money made in profit, over in taxes.

Lower tax rates discourages reinvestment in to the company expansion....the opposite of higher taxes.... They buy back stock, instead.