I'm voting for Obama, and I'll tell you why.

[Harry Dresden]

23 years and making $21 an hour and retiring at 60 with medical. If that is a dream and you like it, good for you. Doesn't sound like my idea of a good job or a union taking care of me.

And they are taking 15.00 dollars a week from Steels pay check I call that Robbery.

I missed Papa's. post, so I'll address you both. $21/hr for a guy with nothing more than a high school diploma and a few Microsoft feet's that I don't use? I don't know where you live, but that's decent money around here...it's about $41k. My.wife's an RN and she makes around $70k....we're doing pretty well. You do realize that at one time, the "American Dream" wasn't to become Bill Gates....it was to own a home, buy a car every few years, raise your kids up right, go on vacations and retire in a fairly comfortable manner. So yeah....I'm happy with my life. Sue me.

Now, about the $15/pay....I call that paying for solidarity....I call that contributing to a strike fund if the membership calls for a strike....although, in my line of work, we get court ordered back to work in 2 days and into arbitration.....and before you start....we haven't struck since 1976, and for the past three contracts, we've given up things to help our employer out....it's called negotiation....which is finding an acceptable middle ground.

im not allowed to strike at the PO....we have been working over a year without a contract....in Arbitration right now.........

 

[Steelplate]

And they are taking 15.00 dollars a week from Steels pay check I call that Robbery.

I missed Papa's. post, so I'll address you both. $21/hr for a guy with nothing more than a high school diploma and a few Microsoft feet's that I don't use? I don't know where you live, but that's decent money around here...it's about $41k. My.wife's an RN and she makes around $70k....we're doing pretty well. You do realize that at one time, the "American Dream" wasn't to become Bill Gates....it was to own a home, buy a car every few years, raise your kids up right, go on vacations and retire in a fairly comfortable manner. So yeah....I'm happy with my life. Sue me.

Now, about the $15/pay....I call that paying for solidarity....I call that contributing to a strike fund if the membership calls for a strike....although, in my line of work, we get court ordered back to work in 2 days and into arbitration.....and before you start....we haven't struck since 1976, and for the past three contracts, we've given up things to help our employer out....it's called negotiation....which is finding an acceptable middle ground.

im not allowed to strike at the PO....we have been working over a year without a contract....in Arbitration right now.........

My brother works for the PO in Galena KS. I know how you feel...this last contract, we've had our pay frozen for the duration of the contract(4 Years), we had to start paying in more to our retirement fund (7.6% from 6.2%...and they still match at 6.2%), Our medical got more expensive, we lost three sick days, and new hires got less earned time off than before the contract.

Good luck in arbitration.

 

[grunt11b]

Because I think it's time someone else started paying my car, my gas, and mortgage for me.

- On a serious note, so there can actually be a valid discussion -

How can someone explain to me that voting for Obama isn't applauding this sort of attitude? (See video below)

Obama Voters - 201203 - YouTube

Original Obamaphone Lady: Obama Voter Says Vote for Obama because he gives a free Phone - YouTube

Ignorant Obama Supporters Want Free Gas in Columbus - YouTube

Obama Is Going To Pay For My Gas And Mortgage!!! - YouTube

You're voting Obama, cuz you're a fucking moron.

 

[mudwhistle]

The finger pointing song from the Obama campaign:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fwlW4lx6TTo]The Future Children Project - YouTube[/ame]

Full lyrics:

Imagine an America
Where strip mines are fun and free
Where gays can be fixed
And sick people just die
And oil fills the sea

We don’t have to pay for freeways!
Our schools are good enough
Give us endless wars
On foreign shores
And lots of Chinese stuff

We’re the children of the future
American through and through
But something happened to our country
And we’re kinda blaming you

We haven’t killed all the polar bears
But it’s not for lack of trying
Big Bird is sacked
The Earth is cracked
And the atmosphere is frying

Congress went home early
They did their best we know
You can’t cut spending
With elections pending
Unless it’s welfare dough

We’re the children of the future
American through and through
But something happened to our country
And we’re kinda blaming you

Find a park that is still open
And take a breath of poison air
They foreclosed your place
To build a weapon in space
But you can write off your au pair

It’s a little awkward to tell you
But you left us holding the bag
When we look around
The place is all dumbed down
And the long term’s kind of a drag

We’re the children of the future
American through and through
But something happened to our country
And yeah, we’re blaming you

You did your best
You failed the test

Mom and Dad
We’re blaming you!

 

[rightwinger]

The finger pointing song from the Obama campaign:

The Future Children Project - YouTube

Full lyrics:

Imagine an America
Where strip mines are fun and free
Where gays can be fixed
And sick people just die
And oil fills the sea

We don’t have to pay for freeways!
Our schools are good enough
Give us endless wars
On foreign shores
And lots of Chinese stuff

We’re the children of the future
American through and through
But something happened to our country
And we’re kinda blaming you

We haven’t killed all the polar bears
But it’s not for lack of trying
Big Bird is sacked
The Earth is cracked
And the atmosphere is frying

Congress went home early
They did their best we know
You can’t cut spending
With elections pending
Unless it’s welfare dough

We’re the children of the future
American through and through
But something happened to our country
And we’re kinda blaming you

Find a park that is still open
And take a breath of poison air
They foreclosed your place
To build a weapon in space
But you can write off your au pair

It’s a little awkward to tell you
But you left us holding the bag
When we look around
The place is all dumbed down
And the long term’s kind of a drag

We’re the children of the future
American through and through
But something happened to our country
And yeah, we’re blaming you

You did your best
You failed the test

Mom and Dad
We’re blaming you!

Great song....

GOP should adopt it as their platform.......Oops, they already have

 

[Harry Dresden]

I missed Papa's. post, so I'll address you both. $21/hr for a guy with nothing more than a high school diploma and a few Microsoft feet's that I don't use? I don't know where you live, but that's decent money around here...it's about $41k. My.wife's an RN and she makes around $70k....we're doing pretty well. You do realize that at one time, the "American Dream" wasn't to become Bill Gates....it was to own a home, buy a car every few years, raise your kids up right, go on vacations and retire in a fairly comfortable manner. So yeah....I'm happy with my life. Sue me.

Now, about the $15/pay....I call that paying for solidarity....I call that contributing to a strike fund if the membership calls for a strike....although, in my line of work, we get court ordered back to work in 2 days and into arbitration.....and before you start....we haven't struck since 1976, and for the past three contracts, we've given up things to help our employer out....it's called negotiation....which is finding an acceptable middle ground.

im not allowed to strike at the PO....we have been working over a year without a contract....in Arbitration right now.........

My brother works for the PO in Galena KS. I know how you feel...this last contract, we've had our pay frozen for the duration of the contract(4 Years), we had to start paying in more to our retirement fund (7.6% from 6.2%...and they still match at 6.2%), Our medical got more expensive, we lost three sick days, and new hires got less earned time off than before the contract.

Good luck in arbitration.

as of today i have 33 years in......im going to go out.....i have had enough....ill be out hopefully by the years end....

 

[tooAlive]

im not allowed to strike at the PO....we have been working over a year without a contract....in Arbitration right now.........

My brother works for the PO in Galena KS. I know how you feel...this last contract, we've had our pay frozen for the duration of the contract(4 Years), we had to start paying in more to our retirement fund (7.6% from 6.2%...and they still match at 6.2%), Our medical got more expensive, we lost three sick days, and new hires got less earned time off than before the contract.

Good luck in arbitration.

as of today i have 33 years in......im going to go out.....i have had enough....ill be out hopefully by the years end....

Best of luck to you as well, Harry.

 

[jtpr312]

I watched it

Where in there did she say she expected anything other than working for it?

By saying she "won't have to worry about it?"

To me that implies having someone else do it for you. Specially since she didn't mention doing otherwise.

ers.

I have a job, that means I don't have to worry about paying my mortgage or car payment

Why is what she said any different?

Are you really this ignorant or is this just some kind of Cletus like board persona you're having fun with?

 

[rightwinger]

By saying she "won't have to worry about it?"

To me that implies having someone else do it for you. Specially since she didn't mention doing otherwise.

ers.

I have a job, that means I don't have to worry about paying my mortgage or car payment

Why is what she said any different?

Are you really this ignorant or is this just some kind of Cletus like board persona you're having fun with?

You are welcome to point out where she said she expected anything for free. You need to have a job to qualify for a mortgage. Not many welfare queens have mortgages

 

[jtpr312]

I have a job, that means I don't have to worry about paying my mortgage or car payment

Why is what she said any different?

Are you really this ignorant or is this just some kind of Cletus like board persona you're having fun with?

You are welcome to point out where she said she expected anything for free. You need to have a job to qualify for a mortgage. Not many welfare queens have mortgages

No, you didin't need a job to qualify for a mortage under the Community Re-investment act and the other liberal homes for minorities programs that caused the housing meltdown in this nation. That was the freaking problem. Lending institutions where forced by the Clinton Justice Dept to loan money to people who they KNEW could never pay it back.

 

[tooAlive]

I have a job, that means I don't have to worry about paying my mortgage or car payment

Why is what she said any different?

Are you really this ignorant or is this just some kind of Cletus like board persona you're having fun with?

You are welcome to point out where she said she expected anything for free. You need to have a job to qualify for a mortgage. Not many welfare queens have mortgages

13 pages and you're still asking the same thing.

She didn't say it.

 

[rightwinger]

Are you really this ignorant or is this just some kind of Cletus like board persona you're having fun with?

You are welcome to point out where she said she expected anything for free. You need to have a job to qualify for a mortgage. Not many welfare queens have mortgages

No, you didin't need a job to qualify for a mortage under the Community Re-investment act and the other liberal homes for minorities programs that caused the housing meltdown in this nation. That was the freaking problem. Lending institutions where forced by the Clinton Justice Dept to loan money to people who they KNEW could never pay it back.

Still trying to sell that nonsense?

It was the wealthier among us who defaulted their loans

 

[rightwinger]

Are you really this ignorant or is this just some kind of Cletus like board persona you're having fun with?

You are welcome to point out where she said she expected anything for free. You need to have a job to qualify for a mortgage. Not many welfare queens have mortgages

13 pages and you're still asking the same thing.

She didn't say it.

Funny isnt it?

Yet conservatives keep posting the clip over and over and giggle....."Black people expect everything for free"

 

[tooAlive]

You are welcome to point out where she said she expected anything for free. You need to have a job to qualify for a mortgage. Not many welfare queens have mortgages

No, you didin't need a job to qualify for a mortage under the Community Re-investment act and the other liberal homes for minorities programs that caused the housing meltdown in this nation. That was the freaking problem. Lending institutions where forced by the Clinton Justice Dept to loan money to people who they KNEW could never pay it back.

Still trying to sell that nonsense?

It was the wealthier among us who defaulted their loans

Your logic is absolutely brilliant.

The wealthier chose not to pay, and the poor why couldn't afford their loans in the first place did pay.

 

[Steelplate]

im not allowed to strike at the PO....we have been working over a year without a contract....in Arbitration right now.........

My brother works for the PO in Galena KS. I know how you feel...this last contract, we've had our pay frozen for the duration of the contract(4 Years), we had to start paying in more to our retirement fund (7.6% from 6.2%...and they still match at 6.2%), Our medical got more expensive, we lost three sick days, and new hires got less earned time off than before the contract.

Good luck in arbitration.

as of today i have 33 years in......im going to go out.....i have had enough....ill be out hopefully by the years end....

Good for you man, enjoy your retirement! I'm gonna PM you something...

 

[Rct_Tsoul]

Wait a minute............
I am Muslim, and even I am not that stupid to believe these are Ameri-CAN children in this video, I did not see any handicapped ones, nor did I see 1 child with a shred of dignity, I know this because Ameri-CAN dignity insults Muslims and non-Americans, this video is a LIE, most likely made in Canada, the only thing they got right is the different races. Take a look at this video again.....

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fwlW4lx6TTo]The Future Children Project - YouTube[/ame]​

 

[Steelplate]

Are you really this ignorant or is this just some kind of Cletus like board persona you're having fun with?

You are welcome to point out where she said she expected anything for free. You need to have a job to qualify for a mortgage. Not many welfare queens have mortgages

No, you didin't need a job to qualify for a mortage under the Community Re-investment act and the other liberal homes for minorities programs that caused the housing meltdown in this nation. That was the freaking problem. Lending institutions where forced by the Clinton Justice Dept to loan money to people who they KNEW could never pay it back.

Who told you that? Beck? slimebaugh?

Do some research on your own....here, I'll help you out....

fact check the community reinvestment act caused the 2008 crash - Google Search

 

[logical4u]

No....I vote Democrat for a different reason. I'm pro-labor. Our working class has taken a beating since the lie of "trickle down" economics became the norm. 47% of the people in this country have to accept some sort of government assistance to make ends meet in this God awfully expensive country. The vast majority of these people are working their fingers to the bone....they aren't lazy, irresponsible or feel themselves "victims".....all so some "job creator" can pocket more and more.

I don't hate rich people, I don't hate business.....but I think that the Conglomerate has run this country into the ground long enough for their personal gain. Funny how when wages and employer paid benefits were high enough...paying for government programs wasn't a problem....but now....since private sector unions have been virtually eliminated, wages have virtually stagnated since the late 70's and the cost of living has skyrocketed in the same time span.....all of a sudden those programs are "wealth redistribution"

Face it....you've been lied to by the biggest marketing campaign in the history of our nation. The campaign to make rich people richer at the expense of the rest of our citizens and as a result, the country itself.

Now, do I want government to dictate wages? No, not really.....I want these huge corporations to treat their employees well and remember the country that gave them the Freedom to become the successes they are. No one wants them to be poor, no one wants them not to succeed. They just want to raise their families without struggling so damned much.

You are wrong. Labor took a beating in the seventies when the EPA gained power. You have a steeler avatar; do you remember when the EPA made the "bread belt" into the "rust belt"? (hint, it was before Regan's "trickle down"). The big cities are terribly expensive, why, because of liberal policies that force working (labor) citizens pay for those that are not working. Visit the rural areas, and see how many people are "making it" on low pay. If their taxes are not astronomical, they don't need a six figure income to live a good life.

The policies of the liberals are going to ensure an economic divide. When a person approaches the "wealthy ceiling", the liberals tax them at a far higher rate than they do others, to keep them from "achieving" wealth. The truly wealthy (Obama, Romney) have their wealth protected from taxes, they helped write the laws to keep it that way. In this way, the wealthy does not pay "high" taxes. The "middle class" are prevented from crossing into wealthy status, and the poor are paid to stay poor (if you make over this amount, your benefits will stop).

The liberal policy is the socialist policy: let the gov't run the industry, and everyone can live in equal misery. The wages are fixed. People don't care about other people. Variety and selection of products and services are reduced, exponentially.

In this country you can go from poor to rich, and back again, no guarantees. It is full of oportunity. It is your choice to try or to accept the gov't paying you to stay poor. The democrats/liberals do not support industry (productivity). They support stagnation. The record of job creation (support of businesses) in the last four years is pathetic. Why would you vote for a "party" that is limiting opportunity, and supporting "sloth"?

I'm not wrong.

Who created the EPA?…Oh yeah....Nixon. Fucking liberal asshole that he was. You're right about the wealthy writing the rulebook to their benefit though.....Reagan though, did bust private sector unions...and actually, in the short term....it was a good thing. In the 70's, when the OPEC oil embargo happened, our country was woefully unprepared for it....it hurt consumers and businesses hard. The unions at the time were very powerful and refused to work with businesses in a dire time....After they were busted....Businesses grew and actually did play along with the trickle down thing....for a while....but slowly, the trickling slowed....wages stagnated, benefits were reduced and put more and more pressure on the worker as the employer's share got smaller and smaller. Funny how business profits boomed, CEO salaried went through the roof, golden parachutes became the norm....regardless of how the company did...

You can't possibly sit there and say all of that shit is "librul" policy. If you do, you either aren't being honest....or your just another brainwashed drone who only believes what he wants to believe.

Sloth? Why don't you do yourself a favor....do some research. Go beyond your AM radio driven rhetoric and actually get stats from reliable resources....I've had this argument many times....and you know what? in principle I AGREE with you. People who CAN work, SHOULD be working. I have REPEATEDLY stated on this board that able bodied.welfare recipients should be required to work for their CURRENT benefits....Not a government job....just for what they are getting right now....I figure that if they have to work anyway....they'll look to get off of it relatively quick.

But yeah....back to what I was saying, do some research. Before the crash of '08....folks on pure welfare(get everything from government assistance)....sat around 2% of the population Nationwide, and around 1.5% in my state(PA). Sure...a higher percentage got some kind of subsidization due to being working poor....food stamps, WIC, Medicaid....but the idea of the country is chock full of welfare bums was just completely false.....and it still is today.

We support industry....we just want it to be safe. What's wrong with that? Perhaps you're to young to remember the Love Canal....here in PA, we are already having problems with the fracking industry....our communities are having water issues, we've had four major accidents of tankers hauling toxic fracking liquid crashing and the contents spilling into our streams and soaking into the ground. Maybe it doesn't matter to you if Communities in my neck of the woods are poisoned....but it matters to me.

I'm not the bad guy....you're not the bad guy....but there has to be balance. Balance between industry and public safety. Balance between investment bankers profits and causing a global collapse due to excessive risk taking. Balance between a business maximizing profits and the quality if life for the workers who are the cogs that bring in those profits. Henry Ford got it....he knew he'd sell more cars if his employees made enough to buy one.

IMO....and many other's....We are out of balance....we've been giving American Business and their wealthy upper crust too much power, too many breaks and they are now in the same mindset that the unions had in the 70's.....back then, it didn't matter how hard businesses were.hit....they wanted what they wanted and they weren't going to give in.....Nowadays, it doesn't matter how hard labor is getting hit and how badly they ate struggling....they want what they want and not only are they not giving in....they've lobbied and won from the government the ability to hold a gun to the workers' heads....That gun is....hey....if you don't accept our conditions...
there's plenty of people in China that will do your job for $.75/hr.

I personally think the whole "taxes and regulations" bullshit isn't the issue that our conglomerate says it is....I think.it's dirt cheap labor combined with the fact that the tax code is written that they don't have to pay shit in taxes till they bring that money back home....It's a system that REWARDS them to invest outside of America and letting their own country to rot.

You are demanding a bigger share for the same amount of productivity. Do you know how IBEW started? The industries that needed electricity would hire an "electrician" to connect a transformer (3 phase). The electrician would tell them: yeah, I can do that. When they powered the transformer, it would blow up because 2 phases were reversed. The union said, hey, if we put a "union" together that will be able to do all the basic electrical connections, will you hire "union labor". The industries agreed. Both labor and industry was happy with the agreement. Then the "union" wanted to play some unethical games. They would put people in charge that would use minimum wire requirements, so that after 2,5, or even 10 years, the work would need to be "upgraded". The people that did jobs that did not need "upgraded" were blackballed from supervision. Then the "union" started defending poor work ethics, protecting people that should have been fired. Now, industry does not trust "unions". It is their own fault. I have spoken with a least two unions about replicating the training idea to make the employees more valuable to management. I was ridiculed and told that was not what the union was about. The unions have gone the way of the dinosaurs, they just haven't realized it yet.

Industry has to take so many risks that the management is unwilling to "share". They have to worry about unethical employees taking advantage of worker's compensation, lawsuits, disability, etc. They cannot afford to show generosity to workers; if they do, someone burns them.

I noticed you did not go into how I was wrong about the EPA. Did the country need to clean up its act? Yes. Did standards need to be improved? Yes. Did it need to be done in such a way that the gov't "forced" these companies to pack up the bread belt and move it to Chile (where the standards are still lax). (We buy our produce from there, where the pollution matches what was in PA in the 70s, how does that make sense?) The gov't is doing the same thing now with the coal-based industries. Instead of the EPA setting reasonable standards to take effect on "new" plants or 20 years after one has been built (based on rehab plans), the EPA is demanding industry comply with new standards without the technology to support it. The industry must either be highly taxed (fines/fees), reducing the amount of money available to pay employees, or shut the doors, placing employees on unemployment. Then people like you want to call them the bad guys. You, yes you, can take the risks, open a business of your own, and pay "your" employees a wage that you think is fitting of the work they do. If more of you would do that, there would be a lot less "greedy" corporate types (assuming you stayed in business).

 

[logical4u]

I assume that people who have mortgages have jobs

Conservatives assume black people expect everything for free

Wonder who is right?

Work with "black people", and don't hear them making claims like this. Because a black person is filmed demonstrating their personal willingness to be enslaved (the gov't paying them to stay poor), you want to claim that "others" assume all black people are like this. Talk about bigoted..... If we see an individual making a claim, we do not assume that everyone that "looks like them" think or do the same thing. That is a liberal philosophy.....

Bullshit...look at the OP of this thread...."Typical Obama supporter", I believe was the claim...

Unless you are saying all black people look alike, I would believe it was the "attitude of entitlement" they were referring to on the video.

 

[logical4u]

Bullshit....You've seen my rants on the economy....Not once have I ever said or implied that the changes that need to occur should be for "union" people only. I want everyone to have the same decent life that I do. We put one kid through college and our second is attending now. We go on vacation....oh, we have to struggle somewhat to do it.....work some overtime, not buy frivolous things..etc. Going on a 10 day cruise in January. Pretty decent life....we pay our bills without much trouble....we are able to save for the big stuff that goes beyond normal bills.....that's the way it should be.

The point is, I support all of the working class....and most of the working class don't have it near as good as we do.....they need to take some sort of welfare just to get by....be it food stamps, Medicaid or housing assistance. They also, as you guys point out, don't pay Federal Income Tax....which doesn't help pay down the debt or pay for the programs we do have.

Only a blind man can't see that the pandering to the "job creators" has gone too far and our entire country is suffering because of it. There needs to be a change in the attitudes towards American labor.....a job where one would be better off on Welfare isn't much of a job at all.

Unions? yeah, I'm pro-union.....but if things were different and Employers treated their employees right.....there wouldn't be a need for unions. A fair day's pay for a fair day's work means that you don't need welfare for your family to subsist.

"Job creators", do you mean like the President giving the "greenies" taxpayer monies to pocket by declaring bankrupcy, and those that were supposed to be given jobs, unemployed (at the tax payers' expense)? He works like a two-bit African dictator that is intent on robbing the country blind, while shutting down anyone that points out the truth.

Talking points....you can't debate....you can't think....all you do is parrot bullshit that's been repeated ad nauseum around here....I'm done with you.

Tell you what get your "critical thinking" switch turned off the "Obama" setting and we'll actually have a conversation....

Are you saying that you are not using "talking points"?

Tell me, using your God given ability to reason: if you punish the owners of corporations and they shut it all down, who is served?