In 2016... What the hell does "Gay" even mean?

[Boss]

What does it matter if we do? I'll stop "defining" myself as gay or lesbian when everyone else stops assuming heterosexuality.

I don't care what individuals want to call themselves. That's up to the individual. Does it not bother you when bigots use the term to denigrate and insult other people? Wouldn't it be better if people respected you as a person regardless of your sexuality?

Why can't you accept people when they are categorized?

I accept people as they are, I don't have to categorize them based on their sexuality. Not sure why you find that important to be honest.

 

[Seawytch]

What does it matter if we do? I'll stop "defining" myself as gay or lesbian when everyone else stops assuming heterosexuality.

I don't care what individuals want to call themselves. That's up to the individual. Does it not bother you when bigots use the term to denigrate and insult other people? Wouldn't it be better if people respected you as a person regardless of your sexuality?

Of course I want people to respect me as a person regardless of sexuality. Why are you asking rhetorical questions? What does that have to do with anything? And of course I would prefer people stopped using gay or lesbian as a pejorative...so?

Look, I don't walk around telling people I'm gay. In fact, other than my parents, I've never told anyone I was gay that didn't either 1) First assume I was straight or 2) asked me outright if I was gay. Should I lie?

Why can't you accept people when they are categorized?

I accept people as they are, I don't have to categorize them based on their sexuality. Not sure why you find that important to be honest.

But what if "as they are" is that category? If you can accept people as they are, you should be able to accept that people categorize themselves with all kinds of lables. Straight, gay, married, single, conservative, liberal, and on and on....

 

[Boss]

Of course I want people to respect me as a person regardless of sexuality. Why are you asking rhetorical questions? What does that have to do with anything? And of course I would prefer people stopped using gay or lesbian as a pejorative...so?

Look, I don't walk around telling people I'm gay. In fact, other than my parents, I've never told anyone I was gay that didn't either 1) First assume I was straight or 2) asked me outright if I was gay. Should I lie?

Nope. But you are actually reinforcing my OP commentary. What does it even mean in 2016? Why even have it around from a societal standpoint? So that some people can use it as a pejorative? So some people can feign righteous indignation and attack others? So that we can put people in little boxes and label them? Why not grow the fuck up and accept people for who they are without judging them based on often prejudice stereotypes?

I'm not suggesting that individuals stop identifying themselves intimately to other people in this way, but rather, as a societal definition. I hope you get what I am saying here. Not trying to be offensive, I just think it brings about more harm than any good it does.

But what if "as they are" is that category? If you can accept people as they are, you should be able to accept that people categorize themselves with all kinds of lables. Straight, gay, married, single, conservative, liberal, and on and on....

Again, this is not about self-identification.

 

[Seawytch]

Of course I want people to respect me as a person regardless of sexuality. Why are you asking rhetorical questions? What does that have to do with anything? And of course I would prefer people stopped using gay or lesbian as a pejorative...so?

Look, I don't walk around telling people I'm gay. In fact, other than my parents, I've never told anyone I was gay that didn't either 1) First assume I was straight or 2) asked me outright if I was gay. Should I lie?

Nope. But you are actually reinforcing my OP commentary. What does it even mean in 2016? Why even have it around from a societal standpoint? So that some people can use it as a pejorative? So some people can feign righteous indignation and attack others? So that we can put people in little boxes and label them? Why not grow the fuck up and accept people for who they are without judging them based on often prejudice stereotypes?

I'm not suggesting that individuals stop identifying themselves intimately to other people in this way, but rather, as a societal definition. I hope you get what I am saying here. Not trying to be offensive, I just think it brings about more harm than any good it does.

But what if "as they are" is that category? If you can accept people as they are, you should be able to accept that people categorize themselves with all kinds of lables. Straight, gay, married, single, conservative, liberal, and on and on....

Again, this is not about self-identification.

Sounds more like you're suggesting gays just go back in the closet.

We identify ourselves because there is safety in numbers. We identify ourselves because there is comfort in community. We identify ourselves because we don't want society doing the labeling for us.

 

[Boss]

Of course I want people to respect me as a person regardless of sexuality. Why are you asking rhetorical questions? What does that have to do with anything? And of course I would prefer people stopped using gay or lesbian as a pejorative...so?

Look, I don't walk around telling people I'm gay. In fact, other than my parents, I've never told anyone I was gay that didn't either 1) First assume I was straight or 2) asked me outright if I was gay. Should I lie?

Nope. But you are actually reinforcing my OP commentary. What does it even mean in 2016? Why even have it around from a societal standpoint? So that some people can use it as a pejorative? So some people can feign righteous indignation and attack others? So that we can put people in little boxes and label them? Why not grow the fuck up and accept people for who they are without judging them based on often prejudice stereotypes?

I'm not suggesting that individuals stop identifying themselves intimately to other people in this way, but rather, as a societal definition. I hope you get what I am saying here. Not trying to be offensive, I just think it brings about more harm than any good it does.

But what if "as they are" is that category? If you can accept people as they are, you should be able to accept that people categorize themselves with all kinds of lables. Straight, gay, married, single, conservative, liberal, and on and on....

Again, this is not about self-identification.

Sounds more like you're suggesting gays just go back in the closet.

We identify ourselves because there is safety in numbers. We identify ourselves because there is comfort in community. We identify ourselves because we don't want society doing the labeling for us.

Well no... I don't know how clearer I could have made it to you... I asked that you not take offense. I said that it's not about your self-identification to others intimately... I reiterated I am only talking about societal aspects... I really don't know what else I could have done to convey my sentiments on this.

I guess you're going to join some of the other more liberal morons here and condemn me because I am a conservative and you don't like my politics... so fuck whatever I have to say about anything. That's really a sad state of affairs if that's the case.

Here I am making a point about how much I think we have evolved as a society and how we should throw off these labels and stereotypes and I discover that we've not changed any at all... there are still backward-thinking people who aren't going to let go of the past.

 

[JustAnotherNut]

Some people don't get it, don't want to get it, and never will get it. WHY??? Because they need to group or categorize or limit subjects they don't fully understand and are afraid that if they agree on one very small point, they too will be labeled within that very same group they fear.

 

[Boss]

Sounds more like you're suggesting gays just go back in the closet.

Well see... I don't actually think you're out of the closet. I think you kicked the door off the closet but you're standing there in the doorway of the closet, protected by the framework around you, afraid to step out and be yourself without the safety of the closet you were so comfortable in. I want us to tear down the closet and have you be part of the rest of us in the room. Where you're not the weirdo standing in the closet doorway.

And to be completely honest, I think you're going to see society move in the direction I have outlined here. The new generation is not concerned with labels and identifiers like the older generations. Sexuality is not a big deal to them. Your gay? So what? Who cares?

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Gay?

I consider the word "gay" as representing a certain sense of insouciant savoir faire -- and effortless expression of bon vivance with such an unerringly positive outlook on life as to warm the cockles of hearts everywhere.

Like Spongebob, for instance.

Why do you ask?

 

[Asclepias]

Finding the same sex sexually attractive is what makes you gay

Thanks for your opinion on that. I think a lot of people disagree.

Well its not my opinion. I got that from the definition of homosexual which tells me you are in the minority of people that disagree which would place you in the category of being wrong.

 

[Asclepias]

Sounds more like you're suggesting gays just go back in the closet.

Well see... I don't actually think you're out of the closet. I think you kicked the door off the closet but you're standing there in the doorway of the closet, protected by the framework around you, afraid to step out and be yourself without the safety of the closet you were so comfortable in. I want us to tear down the closet and have you be part of the rest of us in the room. Where you're not the weirdo standing in the closet doorway.

And to be completely honest, I think you're going to see society move in the direction I have outlined here. The new generation is not concerned with labels and identifiers like the older generations. Sexuality is not a big deal to them. Your gay? So what? Who cares?

Evidently you care. Why would you start this thread and try to tell people how to self label?

 

[Asclepias]

Again, the point of the OP is, why do we need to define these orientations at all in 2016?

What does it matter if we do? I'll stop "defining" myself as gay or lesbian when everyone else stops assuming heterosexuality.

Can't we just accept people as they are without categorizing what they are?

Why can't you accept people when they are categorized?

Why do certain men have this hang up with acknowledging the sexual attractiveness in other men? Is that homophobia?

Yes.

.
Well he claims he has gay friends and they dont call themselves gay. He also claims that since people use the term to insult or denigrate people that label themselves as gay those people should be cowed and not use the word gay as a description for themselves.

 

[Asclepias]

Of course I want people to respect me as a person regardless of sexuality. Why are you asking rhetorical questions? What does that have to do with anything? And of course I would prefer people stopped using gay or lesbian as a pejorative...so?

Look, I don't walk around telling people I'm gay. In fact, other than my parents, I've never told anyone I was gay that didn't either 1) First assume I was straight or 2) asked me outright if I was gay. Should I lie?

Nope. But you are actually reinforcing my OP commentary. What does it even mean in 2016? Why even have it around from a societal standpoint? So that some people can use it as a pejorative? So some people can feign righteous indignation and attack others? So that we can put people in little boxes and label them? Why not grow the fuck up and accept people for who they are without judging them based on often prejudice stereotypes?

I'm not suggesting that individuals stop identifying themselves intimately to other people in this way, but rather, as a societal definition. I hope you get what I am saying here. Not trying to be offensive, I just think it brings about more harm than any good it does.

But what if "as they are" is that category? If you can accept people as they are, you should be able to accept that people categorize themselves with all kinds of lables. Straight, gay, married, single, conservative, liberal, and on and on....

Again, this is not about self-identification.

Do you think that if gay people stop calling themselves gay and the word was stricken from the dictionary that people wouldnt still use the word gay as an insult? Hell. Even if the word was stricken from everyones memory they would just come up with another label to use on people.

Here is the problem with your suggestion. People label automatically. Its instinct and the reason humans survived without fangs and claws for protection. The human that couldnt label a lion as dangerous didnt live to pass on his/her genes. To this day everyone utilizes this labeling ability in the nano seconds the brain needs to process information when meeting someone.

 

[Montrovant]

What does it matter if we do? I'll stop "defining" myself as gay or lesbian when everyone else stops assuming heterosexuality.

I don't care what individuals want to call themselves. That's up to the individual. Does it not bother you when bigots use the term to denigrate and insult other people? Wouldn't it be better if people respected you as a person regardless of your sexuality?

Why can't you accept people when they are categorized?

I accept people as they are, I don't have to categorize them based on their sexuality. Not sure why you find that important to be honest.

If people who are attracted to the same gender choose to call themselves gay, are you saying that the rest of society should not use that term?

If I were to say that society should stop categorizing people as men and women, would you agree? After all, we're all humans, why do we need to categorize by gender? Sometimes people use those terms as insults. It's 2016, why do we have to label people by their gender, can't we simply accept them as people? Yes, this is a bit of a silly analogy, but hopefully it gets the point across.

The idea that people are more than any label or characterization, that we should respect people for who they are as individuals rather than whatever group we might categorize them as, is laudable. However, I think you are throwing out the baby with the bathwater, so to speak. Labels can be useful and a reasonable means of description. I'm not sure why you would fight to remove all labels, at least in this particular instance, rather than just hope to stop people from using those labels in a pejorative manner.

 

[Asclepias]

What does it matter if we do? I'll stop "defining" myself as gay or lesbian when everyone else stops assuming heterosexuality.

I don't care what individuals want to call themselves. That's up to the individual. Does it not bother you when bigots use the term to denigrate and insult other people? Wouldn't it be better if people respected you as a person regardless of your sexuality?

Why can't you accept people when they are categorized?

I accept people as they are, I don't have to categorize them based on their sexuality. Not sure why you find that important to be honest.

If people who are attracted to the same gender choose to call themselves gay, are you saying that the rest of society should not use that term?

If I were to say that society should stop categorizing people as men and women, would you agree? After all, we're all humans, why do we need to categorize by gender? Sometimes people use those terms as insults. It's 2016, why do we have to label people by their gender, can't we simply accept them as people? Yes, this is a bit of a silly analogy, but hopefully it gets the point across.

The idea that people are more than any label or characterization, that we should respect people for who they are as individuals rather than whatever group we might categorize them as, is laudable. However, I think you are throwing out the baby with the bathwater, so to speak. Labels can be useful and a reasonable means of description. I'm not sure why you would fight to remove all labels, at least in this particular instance, rather than just hope to stop people from using those labels in a pejorative manner.

I dont think you should categorize yourself as human. Thats a label that separates us from the other primates.....Hell. Where does the labeling stop?

 

[Montrovant]

So if we're discussing characteristics of person, say his political leanings, we might say "Oh he's a wingnut conservative". Or we want to describe his psychological state we might say "Oh he's a psychopathic loon". To explain his level of intelligence, maybe "he's a know-it-all know nothing". So if someone is curious about a person's sexuality and that person prefers a same-sex partner why is it "kind of ridiculous" to apply a label that everyone could understand? How else could we communicate the fact without applying a descriptive adjective?

Why is it ridiculous to use "colored" to describe black people? Seems we can find ways to communicate without using that word. And we're not really talking about someone who knowingly and openly prefers same sex partners and identifies as such... the term is being applied here in this thread to ME and I am heterosexual.

Why do we need a descriptive adjective to describe someone's sexual preference anyway? Why is that anyone's business? It's a private personal matter. Why would someone need to say... Who's he? Oh, that's whore fucker Searcher! Or... That's limp dick Asclepias! Look... here comes tranny banger GT! I mean... WHY does it matter?

The word "gay" is very often being misused and abused in order to denigrate and insult, as Assclap is doing all through this thread and you can read it for yourself.

The word 'colored' is rarely used any more. However, that doesn't mean society stopped using labels to describe race or ethnicity, those labels simply changed. You don't seem to be advocating a change in label from 'gay' to something else, you seem to be advocating an end to sexual orientation labels. You colored example is therefore poor.

Why do we need a descriptive adjective to describe anything? It's easier than a long definition for everything we might describe?

 

[Boss]

What does it matter if we do? I'll stop "defining" myself as gay or lesbian when everyone else stops assuming heterosexuality.

I don't care what individuals want to call themselves. That's up to the individual. Does it not bother you when bigots use the term to denigrate and insult other people? Wouldn't it be better if people respected you as a person regardless of your sexuality?

Why can't you accept people when they are categorized?

I accept people as they are, I don't have to categorize them based on their sexuality. Not sure why you find that important to be honest.

If people who are attracted to the same gender choose to call themselves gay, are you saying that the rest of society should not use that term?

If I were to say that society should stop categorizing people as men and women, would you agree? After all, we're all humans, why do we need to categorize by gender? Sometimes people use those terms as insults. It's 2016, why do we have to label people by their gender, can't we simply accept them as people? Yes, this is a bit of a silly analogy, but hopefully it gets the point across.

The idea that people are more than any label or characterization, that we should respect people for who they are as individuals rather than whatever group we might categorize them as, is laudable. However, I think you are throwing out the baby with the bathwater, so to speak. Labels can be useful and a reasonable means of description. I'm not sure why you would fight to remove all labels, at least in this particular instance, rather than just hope to stop people from using those labels in a pejorative manner.

I'm saying that regardless of what you or I think, society is going to eventually move away from sexuality identifiers. The younger generations already are. I'm not "calling for" anything... this isn't some ham-fisted crusade... I don't really give a shit one way or another. I just think we're moving into an era where sexuality is not that big of a deal and people will eventually get over their hang ups with it.

 

[Asclepias]

What does it matter if we do? I'll stop "defining" myself as gay or lesbian when everyone else stops assuming heterosexuality.

I don't care what individuals want to call themselves. That's up to the individual. Does it not bother you when bigots use the term to denigrate and insult other people? Wouldn't it be better if people respected you as a person regardless of your sexuality?

Why can't you accept people when they are categorized?

I accept people as they are, I don't have to categorize them based on their sexuality. Not sure why you find that important to be honest.

If people who are attracted to the same gender choose to call themselves gay, are you saying that the rest of society should not use that term?

If I were to say that society should stop categorizing people as men and women, would you agree? After all, we're all humans, why do we need to categorize by gender? Sometimes people use those terms as insults. It's 2016, why do we have to label people by their gender, can't we simply accept them as people? Yes, this is a bit of a silly analogy, but hopefully it gets the point across.

The idea that people are more than any label or characterization, that we should respect people for who they are as individuals rather than whatever group we might categorize them as, is laudable. However, I think you are throwing out the baby with the bathwater, so to speak. Labels can be useful and a reasonable means of description. I'm not sure why you would fight to remove all labels, at least in this particular instance, rather than just hope to stop people from using those labels in a pejorative manner.

I'm saying that regardless of what you or I think, society is going to eventually move away from sexuality identifiers. The younger generations already are. I'm not "calling for" anything... this isn't some ham-fisted crusade... I don't really give a shit one way or another. I just think we're moving into an era where sexuality is not that big of a deal and people will eventually get over their hang ups with it.

No. that will never happen. People have an instinctive need to label things as I explained before. People may cease to see it as a point of interest but they will never stop labeling themselves and their behaviors.

 

[Montrovant]

What does it matter if we do? I'll stop "defining" myself as gay or lesbian when everyone else stops assuming heterosexuality.

I don't care what individuals want to call themselves. That's up to the individual. Does it not bother you when bigots use the term to denigrate and insult other people? Wouldn't it be better if people respected you as a person regardless of your sexuality?

Why can't you accept people when they are categorized?

I accept people as they are, I don't have to categorize them based on their sexuality. Not sure why you find that important to be honest.

If people who are attracted to the same gender choose to call themselves gay, are you saying that the rest of society should not use that term?

If I were to say that society should stop categorizing people as men and women, would you agree? After all, we're all humans, why do we need to categorize by gender? Sometimes people use those terms as insults. It's 2016, why do we have to label people by their gender, can't we simply accept them as people? Yes, this is a bit of a silly analogy, but hopefully it gets the point across.

The idea that people are more than any label or characterization, that we should respect people for who they are as individuals rather than whatever group we might categorize them as, is laudable. However, I think you are throwing out the baby with the bathwater, so to speak. Labels can be useful and a reasonable means of description. I'm not sure why you would fight to remove all labels, at least in this particular instance, rather than just hope to stop people from using those labels in a pejorative manner.

I'm saying that regardless of what you or I think, society is going to eventually move away from sexuality identifiers. The younger generations already are. I'm not "calling for" anything... this isn't some ham-fisted crusade... I don't really give a shit one way or another. I just think we're moving into an era where sexuality is not that big of a deal and people will eventually get over their hang ups with it.

Maybe. At this point I think that we're actually moving to a period of more labels, rather than less, but maybe it's just a transition.

 

[Boss]

Maybe. At this point I think that we're actually moving to a period of more labels, rather than less, but maybe it's just a transition.

All I can go on is what I observe in my personal experiences. The younger generations, those who are college-age now or in high school, simply don't seem to care that much with regard to each other's sexuality. There is not the same stigma to being gay as there was back in my younger days, that's for sure. Now, maybe I just happen to know a lot of really cool and hip young kids who are ahead of their time but this is Alabama, that seems a bit odd. I really think most of the younger generation is not as hung up on this as my generation or the older generations.

I'd love to get some input here from the young generation.

 

[Montrovant]

Maybe. At this point I think that we're actually moving to a period of more labels, rather than less, but maybe it's just a transition.

All I can go on is what I observe in my personal experiences. The younger generations, those who are college-age now or in high school, simply don't seem to care that much with regard to each other's sexuality. There is not the same stigma to being gay as there was back in my younger days, that's for sure. Now, maybe I just happen to know a lot of really cool and hip young kids who are ahead of their time but this is Alabama, that seems a bit odd. I really think most of the younger generation is not as hung up on this as my generation or the older generations.

I'd love to get some input here from the young generation.

I agree that the young tend to be much more accepting about what a person's sexuality is, but I have seen a lot of new labels in recent years for gender and sexuality. A quick example would be the expansion from LGBT to LGBTQIA.

I think that both can coexist : the use of labels for sexual orientation and acceptance for whatever orientation a person may be.