In France, extreme gun laws make sure only cops and criminals have guns...

[2aguy]

I have studied human history and human behavior.....societies where only the military and police have guns......end up with blood and tears for the citizens......all human history...until ours...when we enshrined the Right of self defense against the government.......Europe didn't learn the lesson...and 12 million innocent men, women and children were murdered in gas chambers.....Mexico hasn't learned it...and thousands of Mexican citizens are being murdered and their bodies are being turned into ash...in ovens...by the Mexican government and their cartel allies.....right across our border....

The 2nd Amendment is the last line of defense against that.....and each day the Right to carry a gun for self defense saves the lives of innocent people....

And you and others are willing to let that go.....and to be just another group of people, unarmed in the face of violent government and criminals......and willing to let your children and grandchildren face the same fate as the Europeans, Rwandans, Armenians, Chinese, Cubans, Cambodians.........because you will let the gun grabbers take away the Right to self defense....

 

[2aguy]

2aguy continues stumbling and bumbling.

I can't figure out what it is that 2nd A wants.

Everybody that wants a gun in the USA gets a gun. And I mean everybody and anybody. There are 320 million.guns. Thousands of DGUs each and ever day. We have the best rates of murder, suicide, child deaths and domestic violence with a gun. We have the NRA, we have the second A, we celebrate gun culture.

But every day he's on here obsessing about guns.

What the fuck does he want us Americans to do?

actually, latest stats....357,000,000 guns in private hands...

What do I want......

--Nationl concealed carry reciprocity...just like gay marriage and all other rights.

--no registration of guns.

--no licensing of gun owners.

--current federal backround checks at licensed gun dealers can exist but must conform to instant check with no permanent records kept.

--New York would have to actually allow the Right to Keep and Bear arms....and all other states using licensing and fees to keep law abiding citizens would need to end..

--for actual use of a gun to commit a crime....a 30 years sentence.....for convicted violent felons caught in possession of a gun....30 years in prison.

I would start there........

 

[JakeStarkey]

No need for reciprocal "concealed carry" reciprocity. Such is not a protected civil liberty.

"registration of guns" is not unconstitutional.

"licensing of gun owners" is not unconstitutional.

"current federal backround checks at licensed gun dealers" must exist and permanent records must be kept.

"states using licensing and fees to keep law abiding citizens" from doing what? Keep and Bear arms. Show where that is happening.

The following is a great idea: "for actual use of a gun to commit a crime....a 30 years sentence.....for convicted violent felons caught in possession of a gun....30 years in prison."

 

[2aguy]

No need for reciprocal "concealed carry" reciprocity. Such is not a protected civil liberty.

"registration of guns" is not unconstitutional.

"licensing of gun owners" is not unconstitutional.

"current federal backround checks at licensed gun dealers" must exist and permanent records must be kept.

"states using licensing and fees to keep law abiding citizens" from doing what? Keep and Bear arms. Show where that is happening.

The following is a great idea: "for actual use of a gun to commit a crime....a 30 years sentence.....for convicted violent felons caught in possession of a gun....30 years in prison."

New York and now California....

 

[JakeStarkey]

No need for reciprocal "concealed carry" reciprocity. Such is not a protected civil liberty.

"registration of guns" is not unconstitutional.

"licensing of gun owners" is not unconstitutional.

"current federal backround checks at licensed gun dealers" must exist and permanent records must be kept.

"states using licensing and fees to keep law abiding citizens" from doing what? Keep and Bear arms. Show where that is happening.

The following is a great idea: "for actual use of a gun to commit a crime....a 30 years sentence.....for convicted violent felons caught in possession of a gun....30 years in prison."

New York and now California....

Tough.

 

[2aguy]

No need for reciprocal "concealed carry" reciprocity. Such is not a protected civil liberty.

"registration of guns" is not unconstitutional.

"licensing of gun owners" is not unconstitutional.

"current federal backround checks at licensed gun dealers" must exist and permanent records must be kept.

"states using licensing and fees to keep law abiding citizens" from doing what? Keep and Bear arms. Show where that is happening.

The following is a great idea: "for actual use of a gun to commit a crime....a 30 years sentence.....for convicted violent felons caught in possession of a gun....30 years in prison."

Registration of guns is unconstitutional, as is licensing gun owners.....

Can you explain why we need either one?

Permanent records are just for later confiscation...history shows this...Germany, Britain and Australia...

 

[chris.murray]

So, these two morons in France use a shotgun to rob a McDonalds.......sadly for them, the place is filled with French anti-terror police special operators........

this story shows a couple of things...

--extreme French gun control does not stop criminals from using guns for crime

--when you ban guns only cops and criminals will have them

--France puts gun criminals in jail for 7 years...in the U.S., felons caught with guns are out in under 3 years....

What Happens When Gunmen Try To Rob The WRONG McDonald's is EPIC

The two men burst into the fast food location in eastern France, firing a shotgun in the air, only to find themselves in the company of 11 off-duty members of the country’s elite anti-terror force.

Liberals, by definition, are stupid and have no business setting gun law policy.

 

[2aguy]

No need for reciprocal "concealed carry" reciprocity. Such is not a protected civil liberty.

"registration of guns" is not unconstitutional.

"licensing of gun owners" is not unconstitutional.

"current federal backround checks at licensed gun dealers" must exist and permanent records must be kept.

"states using licensing and fees to keep law abiding citizens" from doing what? Keep and Bear arms. Show where that is happening.

The following is a great idea: "for actual use of a gun to commit a crime....a 30 years sentence.....for convicted violent felons caught in possession of a gun....30 years in prison."

New York and now California....

Tough.

Which is why you are an asshole. And not to be listened to....people like you enacted Poll Taxes and Literacy tests on blacks to keep them from voting..now you are doing it to the 2nd Amendment.....

 

[chris.murray]

No need for reciprocal "concealed carry" reciprocity. Such is not a protected civil liberty.

"registration of guns" is not unconstitutional.

"licensing of gun owners" is not unconstitutional.

"current federal backround checks at licensed gun dealers" must exist and permanent records must be kept.

"states using licensing and fees to keep law abiding citizens" from doing what? Keep and Bear arms. Show where that is happening.

The following is a great idea: "for actual use of a gun to commit a crime....a 30 years sentence.....for convicted violent felons caught in possession of a gun....30 years in prison."

New York and now California....

Tough.

Sure it is and thank God over 100,000,000 weapons are not registered and we have them! That makes us safe from liberals!!!!!!

 

[ogibillm]

Compare the French and American gun murder rates per capita.

And that means nothing. French criminals have easy access to guns, yet do not use them to commit murder.

evidence?

 

[chris.murray]

No need for reciprocal "concealed carry" reciprocity. Such is not a protected civil liberty.

"registration of guns" is not unconstitutional.

"licensing of gun owners" is not unconstitutional.

"current federal backround checks at licensed gun dealers" must exist and permanent records must be kept.

"states using licensing and fees to keep law abiding citizens" from doing what? Keep and Bear arms. Show where that is happening.

The following is a great idea: "for actual use of a gun to commit a crime....a 30 years sentence.....for convicted violent felons caught in possession of a gun....30 years in prison."

New York and now California....

Tough.

Which is why you are an asshole. And not to be listened to....people like you enacted Poll Taxes and Literacy tests on blacks to keep them from voting..now you are doing it to the 2nd Amendment.....

Wow! Name calling?

 

[2aguy]

Compare the French and American gun murder rates per capita.

And that means nothing. French criminals have easy access to guns, yet do not use them to commit murder.

evidence?

Here....this is how easy it is to get guns in France and the rest of Europe..I will list several articles...and yet..with these guns they commit fewer murders...so access isn't the issue...it is the will to kill that is different....

Britain confiscated guns...and their gun crime rate stayed the same..till last year, it went up 4% last year.....

How Europe's Terrorists Get Their Guns



France became particularly worried about the trafficking of illegal guns in 2012, increasing fines and jail terms for those involved in the trafficking and possession of them. Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve said in Septemberthat police have seized nearly 6,000 weapons from criminal groups each year since 2013, 1,200 of which were military assault weapons. And in the three weeks following the Nov. 13 attacks, Cazeneuve said French police seized 334 weapons, 34 of them military-grade.

Several officials and experts tell TIME they’ve seen a noticeable climb in both the numbers and the types of illicit weapons crossing borders over the past few years.

Rather than pistols and small guns, there has been a spike in demand for military-grade assault weapons.

This reflects a very different kind of criminality: petty criminals and drug dealers tend to want small pistols that they can conceal; terrorists want AK-47s that can do maximum damage.

 

[Militants]

California are most dangerous in United States with Criminals.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Says a stupid right reactionary like chris.murray.

There are dumb dumbs on both sides.

 

[2aguy]

Compare the French and American gun murder rates per capita.

And that means nothing. French criminals have easy access to guns, yet do not use them to commit murder.

evidence?

And here...

This story tracks gun smuggling in Europe.....lots of it....

European Police Face Being Outgunned by Jihadists With Assault Rifles



But although the police quickly traced the weapons source in the Paris attacks, stopping criminals and other jihadist cells in Europe from acquiring assault weapons for further attacks might not be so easy, according to police officials.



French police believe rifles are on sale in French cities for between €1,000 and €1,500. Earlier this month, Philippe Capon, head of the French police union UNSA, told Bloomberg News, “The French black market for weapons has been inundated with eastern European war artillery and arms.” A French police source told TIME that the weapons from the Charlie Hebdoattack came from the Balkans.

That is not the only source of weaponry. Donald says he fears that the continent might be facing a fresh influx of weapons from North Africa in the wake of the Arab Spring revolts. In August, 2011, Libyan rebels looted large quantities of mortars, tank shells and other munitions when Moammar Gaddafi’s regime collapsed. Although most of those weapons are believed to have filtered across North and West Africa, some could also have made their way to Europe.

The arms traffickers have flourished in the absence of well-financed antiweapons units in Europe, where law enforcement has for years tended to plow money into stopping drug-dealing and other crimes. “We don’t fully understand the scale of the problem because we have not had specialized units,” says Donald, referring to law-enforcement agencies in different E.U. countries. “It is a question of priorities. Any police officer will tell you it [resources] is a constant struggle.”

The trade in illegal weapons can earn enormous profits for organized criminal gangs — enough to make the risk of capture worthwhile. Donald says recent investigations have found arms traffickers investing about €30,000 in a shipment of Balkan-era weapons, refurbishing them in their garages, then selling them for them for about 10 times the price. “That’s a huge mark-up,” he says.

As Europe struggles to crack down on illegal weapons, some police recruits face a new training exercise: Go buy a Kalashnikov rifle. Donald says that in “a city in Europe,” which he would not name, “very young officers with no training or experience” were recently told to go find an assault weapon on the streets from an illegal arms dealer. “One came back two hours later with an AK-47,” Donald says. “He bought it for €1,000.”

 

[2aguy]

Compare the French and American gun murder rates per capita.

And that means nothing. French criminals have easy access to guns, yet do not use them to commit murder.

evidence?

And here...

Running guns to the heart of Europe: 'Need a Kalashnikov in Belgium? No problem'

But for all the new resolve of the European Union to tighten borders and close loopholes in laws that already effectively ban private ownership of rapid-fire assault weapons, Nemac, Milan and a jaded Serbian policeman doubt it can end the trade.

The Serbian police officer, who is involved in counter-trafficking operations, said investigators uncovered maybe a third of shipments at best. The problem was the sheer volume of weapons, he explained, recounting a tale of a man who told customs officers at Serbia's border with the EU that he was a musician and had nothing to declare but his old accordion.--

----

Indeed, there is some irony that Brussels, self-styled "capital" of the European Union and also home to the NATO military alliance, has become a marketplace for such hardware.

"If you have 500 to 1,000 euros you can get a military weapon within half an hour," said Bilal Benyaich, an expert on Islamist radicals at the city's Itinera Institute think-tank.

 

[2aguy]

Compare the French and American gun murder rates per capita.

And that means nothing. French criminals have easy access to guns, yet do not use them to commit murder.

evidence?

And here...

In contrast with the free-firing United States, Europe is generally seen as a haven from serious gun violence. Here in Denmark, handguns and semiautomatic rifles are all but banned. Hunting rifles are legally available only to those with squeaky-clean backgrounds who have passed a rigorous exam covering everything from gun safety to the mating habits of Denmark’s wildlife.

“There’s a book about 1,000 pages thick,” said Tonni Rigby, one of only two licensed firearms dealers in Copenhagen. “You have to know all of it.”


But if you want an illicit assault rifle, such as the one used by a 22-year-old to rake a Copenhagen cafe with 28 bullets on Saturday, all it takes are a few connections and some cash.

“It’s very easy to get such a weapon,” said Hans Jorgen Bonnichsen, a former operations director for the Danish security service PET. “It’s not only a problem for Denmark. It’s a problem for all of Europe.”

 

[2aguy]

Compare the French and American gun murder rates per capita.

And that means nothing. French criminals have easy access to guns, yet do not use them to commit murder.

evidence?

And more from the above article...

You can find Kalashnikovs for sale near the train station in Brussels,” acknowledged a Brussels-based European Union official who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak on the record. “They’re available even to very average criminals.”

In the case of the Paris attackers, they were able to obtain an entire arsenal: AK-47 assault rifles, pistols, a Skorpion submachine gun and even a rocket-propelled-grenade launcher. All of it was purchased in Brussels for about $5,000, according to Belgian media reports.

The availability of such weapons in the heart of Western Europe isn’t new.

The flood of high-powered weaponry began with the dissolution of the Soviet Union and continued through the 1990s as war raged across the Balkans. Many of the weapons from those periods are still circulating. They have lately been supplemented by an influx from the turmoil in North Africa, with weapons smuggled on ships across the Mediterranean.


The guns have been used primarily by criminal gangs that turn them on one another during periodic turf wars.

And yet their gun murder rate is still low......they get guns if they want or need them...they simply don't use them to commit murder as randomly as our thugs do...and they probably don't target kids the way our thugs do either...like the 9 year old Chicago boy murdered in an alley because the boys father killed the gang banger brother of the killer....

 

[2aguy]

No need for reciprocal "concealed carry" reciprocity. Such is not a protected civil liberty.

"registration of guns" is not unconstitutional.

"licensing of gun owners" is not unconstitutional.

"current federal backround checks at licensed gun dealers" must exist and permanent records must be kept.

"states using licensing and fees to keep law abiding citizens" from doing what? Keep and Bear arms. Show where that is happening.

The following is a great idea: "for actual use of a gun to commit a crime....a 30 years sentence.....for convicted violent felons caught in possession of a gun....30 years in prison."

New York and now California....

Tough.

Which is why you are an asshole. And not to be listened to....people like you enacted Poll Taxes and Literacy tests on blacks to keep them from voting..now you are doing it to the 2nd Amendment.....

Wow! Name calling?

I long ago lost patience with anti freedom authoritarians from the left.... I always start out respectful....they end up callling me names..then it is free fire on them whenever we meet again.......

 

[2aguy]

Compare the French and American gun murder rates per capita.

And that means nothing. French criminals have easy access to guns, yet do not use them to commit murder.

evidence?

And more.....

This is How AK-47s Get to Paris

France outlaws most gun ownership and it’s almost impossible to legally acquire a high-powered rifle such as an AK-47, so where did the weapons in the Nov. 13 terror attack—not to mention the bloody January assault by Islamic terrorists on the Paris office ofCharlie Hebdo magazine and the 2012 shootings by a militant in Toulouse—come from?



Guns soon became a major export commodity in the Balkans. Western Europe is the target market. “Many firearms trafficked in Europe come from the western Balkans after being held illegally after recent conflicts in the area,” Europol reported. In just one case from 2014, Slovakian cops intercepted a truck trying to enter the country with “a large number of grenades and firearms,” according to Europol. “The vehicle was travelling from Bosnia and Herzegovina to Sweden.”

And it’s not like the stream of weapons will end when dealers in the Balkans run out of war-vintage leftovers. “One of the reasons we see a lot of Kalashnikovs and AK-47s on the black market is because Russia has just upgraded the Kalashnikov,” Kathie Lynn Austin, an expert on arms trafficking with the Conflict Awareness Project, told Al Jazeera, “and that has created massive stockpiles of the older models.”

On March 6, 2012, French lawmakers passed a law tightening up gun regulation and increasing penalties for illegal ownership. Just five days later, Mohamed Merah—a French jihadist of Algerian descent—went on shooting rampage, killing seven people in three separate attacks in around Toulouse before a police sniper shot him dead.



Merah’s arsenal included an AK-47, an Uzi, a Sten submachine gun, a shotgun, and several pistols—all illegal. “He could only supply himself on the black market or from crime organizations, that’s clear,” Thierry Coste, a pro-gun lobbyist, told The Christian Science Monitor.

In October 2014, French police raided several homes across the country, breaking up an Internet-based smuggling ring, arresting 48 suspected traffickers, and seizing hundreds of illegal guns. Three months later on Jan. 7 this year, jihadist gunmen wielding AK-47s shot up Charlie Hebdo in Paris, killing 12 people.