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You all might find it surprising that Dr Hovind thinks my religion is false and probably of the devil. But regardless of this bias against my religion I still find truth in many of his words regarding evolution and dating techniques. Another guy who has been in the sciences for a long time who is a Christian is Chuck Missler. I like his video called "The Myths of Science - Challenging the Myths of Astronomy - Chuck Missler in The Electric Universe". Based on the responses I've gotten after veering off on the tangent of evolution and carbon 14 dating, I don't think anyone wants to debate those topics so I will want to get back on track with the Bible. I am a member of the LDS faith and we believe in creation ex materia as opposed to creation ex nihilo. On other words we do not believe that God created anything out of nothing. We believe that he only creates from that which is in existence. As Julie Andrews sings in the musical, "The Sound of Music", "Nothing comes from nothing" is what we believe. So when God created the heavens and the earth he created from that which already existed. Thus I find Chuck Missler's teaching in the above mentioned video of plasma to be quite interesting.
A unique teaching in my faith is that we not only believe that God is an infinite being, but that man himself is an infinite being also that has always existed. We believe that before man and woman were created or born, they lived with God and were his spirit sons and daughters. There is evidence of this in the bible:
Jeremiah 1:4-5
4 Then the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
Ecclesiastes 12:7
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
John 9:1-3
1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
In the above verse, who put it into the mind of the apostles that a man could have sinned prior to being born?
Proverbs 8:22-31
22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.
In the above verse, it speaks of wisdom and how it was with God from before the foundation of the earth. And the last verse tells us that wisdom spent its time in the habitable parts of God's earth and that wisdom's delights were with the sons of men.
In the Book of Revelation, John tells us that there was a war in heaven and that the war was between Michael and his angels and the Devil and his angels:
Revelation 12:7-11
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
What I find interesting about this verse is that it occurred before Satan was cast out into the earth. It occurred before the days of the Garden of Eden because Satan was on the earth at that time. Now Michael and all his angels eventually overcome Satan and his angels. But how do they do it? Verse 11 tells us. They do it by the blood of the Lamb! In other words, they need the blood of the Lamb to overcome Satan. Why do they need the blood of the Lamb? Because they are mortal and are sinners! And the rest of this verse confirms that they were mortals by telling us that they loved not their lives unto the DEATH! So Michael and his angels who fought against the dragon before they were made or born into this world, eventually came to this earth and became mortal, needed the blood of the Lamb to overcome sin, and eventually died. These are biblical evidences that we lived prior to coming to this earth.
Every man and woman who has come to this earth and received a body were a part of the army of Michael and his angels who fought against Satan and his angels. The prophet Isaiah tells us of Satan and his fall from heaven:
Isaiah 14:12-17
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
In LDS Scripture we have the following account:
Moses 4:1-4
1 And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, saying—Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor.
2 But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto me—Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever.
3 Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;
4 And he became Satan, yea, even the devil, the father of all lies, to deceive and to blind men, and to lead them captive at his will, even as many as would not hearken unto my voice.
Satan sought to exalt himself to be God and in so doing, he came up with a plan to force mankind to obey. In this way he thought he could save all mankind and none would be lost. But free agency was essential to the salvation of mankind. So God rejected Satan's plan and when he did, Satan rebelled and sought to turn away God's children from him. This was how the war in heaven began. And the Bible tells us that he drew away 1/3 of all the hosts of heaven:
Revelation 12:
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
The third part of the stars of heaven were 1/3 of the host of heaven and they became his angels who fought against Michael and his angels. And they were cast down to the earth with Satan. The devil and his angels are on this earth but cannot receive a body. They want a body because receiving a body is a blessing of which I will discuss at a later time. But God has denied them a chance to receive one. This is why they desire to possess other's bodies. In fact, they would even take the body of swines than to be without a body:
Mark 5:2-13
2 And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,
3 Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains:
4 Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him.
5 And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones.
6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,
7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.
8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.
9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.
10 And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country.
11 Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding.
12 And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them.
13 And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand and were choked in the sea.
A unique teaching in my faith is that we not only believe that God is an infinite being, but that man himself is an infinite being also that has always existed. We believe that before man and woman were created or born, they lived with God and were his spirit sons and daughters. There is evidence of this in the bible:
Jeremiah 1:4-5
4 Then the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
Ecclesiastes 12:7
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
John 9:1-3
1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
In the above verse, who put it into the mind of the apostles that a man could have sinned prior to being born?
Proverbs 8:22-31
22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.
In the above verse, it speaks of wisdom and how it was with God from before the foundation of the earth. And the last verse tells us that wisdom spent its time in the habitable parts of God's earth and that wisdom's delights were with the sons of men.
In the Book of Revelation, John tells us that there was a war in heaven and that the war was between Michael and his angels and the Devil and his angels:
Revelation 12:7-11
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
What I find interesting about this verse is that it occurred before Satan was cast out into the earth. It occurred before the days of the Garden of Eden because Satan was on the earth at that time. Now Michael and all his angels eventually overcome Satan and his angels. But how do they do it? Verse 11 tells us. They do it by the blood of the Lamb! In other words, they need the blood of the Lamb to overcome Satan. Why do they need the blood of the Lamb? Because they are mortal and are sinners! And the rest of this verse confirms that they were mortals by telling us that they loved not their lives unto the DEATH! So Michael and his angels who fought against the dragon before they were made or born into this world, eventually came to this earth and became mortal, needed the blood of the Lamb to overcome sin, and eventually died. These are biblical evidences that we lived prior to coming to this earth.
Every man and woman who has come to this earth and received a body were a part of the army of Michael and his angels who fought against Satan and his angels. The prophet Isaiah tells us of Satan and his fall from heaven:
Isaiah 14:12-17
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
In LDS Scripture we have the following account:
Moses 4:1-4
1 And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, saying—Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor.
2 But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto me—Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever.
3 Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;
4 And he became Satan, yea, even the devil, the father of all lies, to deceive and to blind men, and to lead them captive at his will, even as many as would not hearken unto my voice.
Satan sought to exalt himself to be God and in so doing, he came up with a plan to force mankind to obey. In this way he thought he could save all mankind and none would be lost. But free agency was essential to the salvation of mankind. So God rejected Satan's plan and when he did, Satan rebelled and sought to turn away God's children from him. This was how the war in heaven began. And the Bible tells us that he drew away 1/3 of all the hosts of heaven:
Revelation 12:
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
The third part of the stars of heaven were 1/3 of the host of heaven and they became his angels who fought against Michael and his angels. And they were cast down to the earth with Satan. The devil and his angels are on this earth but cannot receive a body. They want a body because receiving a body is a blessing of which I will discuss at a later time. But God has denied them a chance to receive one. This is why they desire to possess other's bodies. In fact, they would even take the body of swines than to be without a body:
Mark 5:2-13
2 And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,
3 Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains:
4 Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him.
5 And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones.
6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,
7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.
8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.
9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.
10 And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country.
11 Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding.
12 And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them.
13 And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand and were choked in the sea.