In your opinion what is the greatest drawback of green technologies for energy

[Old Rocks]

Next Texas Energy Boom: Solar
City of Austin gets 1.2GW of solar bids at less than 4c/kWh
By Stephen Lacey on 2 July 2015

Greentech Media

A lot more cheap solar is coming for Austin, Texas.

The city’s utility, Austin Energy, just released new data on developer bids for PV projects as part of a 600-megawatt procurement. The numbers show how far solar prices have come down over the last year — and will continue to drop.

According to Khalil Shalabi, Austin Energy’s vice president of resource planning, the utility received offers for 7,976 megawatts of projects after issuing a request for bids in April. Out of those bids, 1,295 megawatts of projects were priced below 4 cents per kilowatt-hour.

“The technology is getting better and the prices are decreasing with time,” said Shalabi during a presentation in front of the Austin city council last week

Next Texas Energy Boom: Solar

Next Texas Energy Boom: Solar
Companies are spending $1 billion on new projects to harvest electricity from the sun

FORT STOCKTON, Texas—A new energy boom is taking shape in the oil fields of west Texas, but it’s not what you think. It’s solar.

Solar power has gotten so cheap to produce—and so competitively priced in the electricity market—that it is taking hold even in a state that, unlike California, doesn’t offer incentives to utilities to buy or build sun-powered generation.

Pecos County, about halfway between San Antonio and El Paso and on the southern edge of the prolific Permian Basin oil field, could soon play host to several large solar-energy farms responsible for about $1 billion in investments, according to state tax records.

On a recent day, contractors for OCI Solar Power LLC erected posts for a solar farm that will be the size of more than 900 football fields. First Solar Inc. was negotiating to lease an adjacent property, its second project in the county. Last year, the Arizona company began capturing sunlight on 400,000 black solar panels in a separate project, converting the abundant sunlight into about 30 megawatts of power.

SunEdison Inc. has presented plans for its own utility-scale solar farm to county commissioners, and Recurrent Energy, a subsidiary of Canadian Solar Inc., is readying another site nearby for construction.

State incentives in California, Nevada and North Carolina helped fund the construction of many large-scale solar farms designed to sell electricity into those local power grids. But in Texas, while there is federal financial support for such projects, there are no state subsidies or mandates that encourage solar power.

 

[Toro]

The expense.

But that's changing.

I think solar is coming in a big, big way.

Solar PV panels are a mature technology. And also now a commodity product driven by ONLY manufacturing and distribution costs. And YET -- if the massive subsidies went away, it could not be sold at the consumer level..

I don't know the technology, but hard-headed money guys tell me otherwise.

 

[flacaltenn]

http://awea.files.cms-plus.com/FileDownloads/pdfs/texas.pdf

Texas is a national leader in the wind energy industry. Texas ranks first in the country for both installed and under construction wind capacity, while supporting over 17,000 wind-related jobs. The wind energy industry in Texas has provided over $26 billion in capital investment and has thrived thanks to smart state policy, such as legislation that created Competitive Renewable Energy Zones (CREZ) for wind power transmission. The state is home to at least 46 manufacturing facilities, including turbine manufacturer Alstom, tower manufacturer Trinity Structural Towers and numerous component suppliers. Jobs & Economic An investment in wind power is an investment in jobs, including jobs in operations and maintenance, construction, manufacturing and many support sectors. In addition, wind projects produce lease payments for landowners and increase the tax base of communities. • 2014 direct and indirect jobs supported: 17,001 to 18,000 • Total capital investment: $26.3 billion • Annual land lease payments: $42.5 million Wind-Related Manufacturing The United States has over 500 manufacturing facilities producing products for the wind industry that range from blade, tower and turbine nacelle assembly facilities to raw component suppliers, including fiberglass and steel. • Number of active manufacturing facilities in the state: 46

Wind Projects • Installed wind capacity: 16,406 MW • State rank for installed wind capacity: 1st • Number of wind turbines: 9,757 • State rank for number of wind turbines: 2nd • Wind projects online: 112 • Wind capacity under construction: 6,343 MW Current Wind Generation In 2014, wind energy provided 9.00% of all in-state electricity production. • Equivalent number of homes powered by wind: 3.6 million

Yes, Texas is a classic case for the economies of wind and solar. They are a very conservative state, yet lead the nation in investments in solar and wind. Obviously, this is a case of economics being put ahead of ideology.

No homes were powered by wind in Texas.. They were powered for a few hours on Thursdays..

 

[flacaltenn]

The expense.

But that's changing.

I think solar is coming in a big, big way.

Solar PV panels are a mature technology. And also now a commodity product driven by ONLY manufacturing and distribution costs. And YET -- if the massive subsidies went away, it could not be sold at the consumer level..

I don't know the technology, but hard-headed money guys tell me otherwise.

Hard -headed money guys are getting rich off the subsidies and financing.. Don't give a shit about the long term economics.. Go check the 5 yr chart for a good solar index stock and get back to me..

 

[Toro]

The expense.

But that's changing.

I think solar is coming in a big, big way.

Solar PV panels are a mature technology. And also now a commodity product driven by ONLY manufacturing and distribution costs. And YET -- if the massive subsidies went away, it could not be sold at the consumer level..

I don't know the technology, but hard-headed money guys tell me otherwise.

Hard -headed money guys are getting rich off the subsidies and financing.. Don't give a shit about the long term economics.. Go check the 5 yr chart for a good solar index stock and get back to me..

They tell me that with the advances in technology, in 3-4 years, solar will be economical for half the households in America, with little to or subsidies.

I honestly can't attest to the technology, but these are some of the best people I know, so I take that seriously. At some point, we will do our own diligence.

The stocks don't tell you anything long term. What they tell you is that many were overpriced with questionable business models. That's par for the course, and has been repeated throughout history, from the railroads 200 years ago to the Tech Bubble recently.

 

[Arianrhod]

Not included in the poll is layman ignorance and industrial hyperfocus on a one-size-fits-all assumption.

You build your technology where the source is most abundant, i.e., you build solar in the Southwest, not in Washington/Oregon. You build a mixed technology - solar, wind, hydro, etc. - in places where one source would be inefficient.

If Germany - where its rainy/overcast a lot - can derive 78% of its power from solar, the U.S. is doing something wrong...in large part due to the influence of oil company lobbyists.

 

[flacaltenn]

Not included in the poll is layman ignorance and industrial hyperfocus on a one-size-fits-all assumption.

You build your technology where the source is most abundant, i.e., you build solar in the Southwest, not in Washington/Oregon. You build a mixed technology - solar, wind, hydro, etc. - in places where one source would be inefficient.

If Germany - where its rainy/overcast a lot - can derive 78% of its power from solar, the U.S. is doing something wrong...in large part due to the influence of oil company lobbyists.

Germany is no where near deriving 78% of it's electric power from solar.. The hype is amazing..

 

[Toro]

So I'm looking at trends in photovoltaic pricing right now. It appears that pricing has fallen by 50%-60% over the past 5 years.

 

[Arianrhod]

Not included in the poll is layman ignorance and industrial hyperfocus on a one-size-fits-all assumption.

You build your technology where the source is most abundant, i.e., you build solar in the Southwest, not in Washington/Oregon. You build a mixed technology - solar, wind, hydro, etc. - in places where one source would be inefficient.

If Germany - where its rainy/overcast a lot - can derive 78% of its power from solar, the U.S. is doing something wrong...in large part due to the influence of oil company lobbyists.

Germany is no where near deriving 78% of it's electric power from solar.. The hype is amazing..

I'm sure you can prove that.

 

[Toro]

As I understand it, there's a quasi-Moore's Law thing going on in PV. It's this technological advancement which is, apparently, making solar economic.

If this is so, then solar is coming in a big way because it will be economic for people to install.

 

[CultureCitizen]

it is NOT sufficient to take your home "off grid". Barely enough to run a load of laundry -- never mind heating or air conditioning or an oven. OR charging your EVehicle

I didn't say you could charge your E Vehicle with a powerwall.
But 10 kwh are definitively enough to power a home, at least for a couple of days.

 

[flacaltenn]

Not included in the poll is layman ignorance and industrial hyperfocus on a one-size-fits-all assumption.

You build your technology where the source is most abundant, i.e., you build solar in the Southwest, not in Washington/Oregon. You build a mixed technology - solar, wind, hydro, etc. - in places where one source would be inefficient.

If Germany - where its rainy/overcast a lot - can derive 78% of its power from solar, the U.S. is doing something wrong...in large part due to the influence of oil company lobbyists.

Germany is no where near deriving 78% of it's electric power from solar.. The hype is amazing..

I'm sure you can prove that.

I'm sure I can.. But it's your assertion.. Are you WRONG???

 

[flacaltenn]

it is NOT sufficient to take your home "off grid". Barely enough to run a load of laundry -- never mind heating or air conditioning or an oven. OR charging your EVehicle

I didn't say you could charge your E Vehicle with a powerwall.
But 10 kwh are definitively enough to power a home, at least for a couple of days.

Avg home consumption is somewhere near 1KW per hour. You live in a Yurt? An NYC apartment?
And the "powerwall" is 7KW-hrs for about $7000 installed.. Not 10...

And why are we discussing homes anyway? Don't you know there's an economy to power? You want to go to hospital and end up in field tent like some 3rd world place??

 

[SSDD]

it is NOT sufficient to take your home "off grid". Barely enough to run a load of laundry -- never mind heating or air conditioning or an oven. OR charging your EVehicle

I didn't say you could charge your E Vehicle with a powerwall.
But 10 kwh are definitively enough to power a home, at least for a couple of days.

Avg home consumption is somewhere near 1KW per hour. You live in a Yurt? An NYC apartment?
And the "powerwall" is 7KW-hrs for about $7000 installed.. Not 10...

And why are we discussing homes anyway? Don't you know there's an economy to power? You want to go to hospital and end up in field tent like some 3rd world place??

They don't seem to understand that if that wall socket next to your desk isn't reliable that your world will become a third world more quickly than you can imagine. That wall socket is what makes our lives possible...take it away and we are hunter gatherers before the pantry is even empty....take that wall socket away and suddenly the vast majority of your day becomes devoted to just getting enough calories to see yourself to the next day.

 

[flacaltenn]

Germany discovers it's NOT in the sweet spot for solar power after $100Euros..

Solar Subsidy Sinkhole: Re-Evaluating Germany's Blind Faith in the Sun - SPIEGEL ONLINE

The only thing that's missing at the moment is sunshine. For weeks now, the 1.1 million solar power systems in Germany have generated almost no electricity. The days are short, the weather is bad and the sky is overcast.

As is so often the case in winter, all solar panels more or less stopped generating electricity at the same time. To avert power shortages, Germany currently has to import large amounts of electricity generated at nuclear power plants in France and the Czech Republic. To offset the temporary loss of solar power, grid operator Tennet resorted to an emergency backup plan, powering up an old oil-fired plant in the Austrian city of Graz.

Solar energy has gone from being the great white hope, to an impediment, to a reliable energy supply. Solar farm operators and homeowners with solar panels on their roofs collected more than €8 billion ($10.2 billion) in subsidies in 2011, but the electricity they generated made up only about 3 percent of the total power supply, and that at unpredictable times.

 

[flacaltenn]

it is NOT sufficient to take your home "off grid". Barely enough to run a load of laundry -- never mind heating or air conditioning or an oven. OR charging your EVehicle

I didn't say you could charge your E Vehicle with a powerwall.
But 10 kwh are definitively enough to power a home, at least for a couple of days.

Avg home consumption is somewhere near 1KW per hour. You live in a Yurt? An NYC apartment?
And the "powerwall" is 7KW-hrs for about $7000 installed.. Not 10...

And why are we discussing homes anyway? Don't you know there's an economy to power? You want to go to hospital and end up in field tent like some 3rd world place??

They don't seem to understand that if that wall socket next to your desk isn't reliable that your world will become a third world more quickly than you can imagine. That wall socket is what makes our lives possible...take it away and we are hunter gatherers before the pantry is even empty....take that wall socket away and suddenly the vast majority of your day becomes devoted to just getting enough calories to see yourself to the next day.

Their goal and game plan is to make energy RARE and EXPENSIVE. The way we got here is having PLENTIFUL and CHEAP energy.. Looks like RARE and EXPENSIVE is what Germany and other EU victims are suddenly waking up to..

 

[flacaltenn]

 

[SSDD]

Their goal and game plan is to make energy RARE and EXPENSIVE. The way we got here is having PLENTIFUL and CHEAP energy.. Looks like RARE and EXPENSIVE is what Germany and other EU victims are suddenly waking up to..

As with most liberal plans...those who are least able to afford it get hurt the most when the plans are implemented;

 

[CultureCitizen]

it is NOT sufficient to take your home "off grid". Barely enough to run a load of laundry -- never mind heating or air conditioning or an oven. OR charging your EVehicle

I didn't say you could charge your E Vehicle with a powerwall.
But 10 kwh are definitively enough to power a home, at least for a couple of days.

Avg home consumption is somewhere near 1KW per hour. You live in a Yurt? An NYC apartment?
And the "powerwall" is 7KW-hrs for about $7000 installed.. Not 10...

And why are we discussing homes anyway? Don't you know there's an economy to power? You want to go to hospital and end up in field tent like some 3rd world place??

... no , not a yurt. I use a gas water-heater which is the energy hog of my appartment. The rest : refrigerator , lamps , computer , laptops , led tv and ocasional heater in winter don't use that much electricity. I have a wooden floor , so I don't use a vaccum cleaner. I use about 1.4 kwh per day. In my case the power wall would store enough energy for a full week.
What surprises me is how the rest of the people use so much electricity .

 

[flacaltenn]

it is NOT sufficient to take your home "off grid". Barely enough to run a load of laundry -- never mind heating or air conditioning or an oven. OR charging your EVehicle

I didn't say you could charge your E Vehicle with a powerwall.
But 10 kwh are definitively enough to power a home, at least for a couple of days.

Avg home consumption is somewhere near 1KW per hour. You live in a Yurt? An NYC apartment?
And the "powerwall" is 7KW-hrs for about $7000 installed.. Not 10...

And why are we discussing homes anyway? Don't you know there's an economy to power? You want to go to hospital and end up in field tent like some 3rd world place??

... no , not a yurt. I use a gas water-heater which is the energy hog of my appartment. The rest : refrigerator , lamps , computer , laptops , led tv and ocasional heater in winter don't use that much electricity. I have a wooden floor , so I don't use a vaccum cleaner. I use about 1.4 kwh per day. In my case the power wall would store enough energy for a full week.
What surprises me is how the rest of the people use so much electricity .

You should stop worrying about "rest of people". They might have 3 or 4 kids or pets or live in a decent size home with a movie theater room and actual laundry facilities, dishwasher, jacuzzi, and outdoor flood lights... NONE of that is up to you...