In your opinion what is the greatest drawback of green technologies for energy

[Wyatt earp]

By green I mean renewable and recyclable ( the components of the plant can be reused / recycled ) .
This includes : hydro , solar thermal , solar , wind .

no. 4 - my oil stocks portfolio would tank.

If you HAD a portfolio -- you'd know that oil has virtually nothing to do with generating electricity with or without renewables.

Ya, well we'll keep that a secret between you and me. As phrased, "hydro, solar, thermal, solar, and wind" if all that caught on oil'd be less valuable.

Don't give up your day job sport.

I give up, why would oil be less valuable?

Seriously explain it?

 

[westwall]

Next Texas Energy Boom: Solar
City of Austin gets 1.2GW of solar bids at less than 4c/kWh
By Stephen Lacey on 2 July 2015

Greentech Media

A lot more cheap solar is coming for Austin, Texas.

The city’s utility, Austin Energy, just released new data on developer bids for PV projects as part of a 600-megawatt procurement. The numbers show how far solar prices have come down over the last year — and will continue to drop.

According to Khalil Shalabi, Austin Energy’s vice president of resource planning, the utility received offers for 7,976 megawatts of projects after issuing a request for bids in April. Out of those bids, 1,295 megawatts of projects were priced below 4 cents per kilowatt-hour.

“The technology is getting better and the prices are decreasing with time,” said Shalabi during a presentation in front of the Austin city council last week

Next Texas Energy Boom: Solar

Next Texas Energy Boom: Solar
Companies are spending $1 billion on new projects to harvest electricity from the sun

FORT STOCKTON, Texas—A new energy boom is taking shape in the oil fields of west Texas, but it’s not what you think. It’s solar.

Solar power has gotten so cheap to produce—and so competitively priced in the electricity market—that it is taking hold even in a state that, unlike California, doesn’t offer incentives to utilities to buy or build sun-powered generation.

Pecos County, about halfway between San Antonio and El Paso and on the southern edge of the prolific Permian Basin oil field, could soon play host to several large solar-energy farms responsible for about $1 billion in investments, according to state tax records.

On a recent day, contractors for OCI Solar Power LLC erected posts for a solar farm that will be the size of more than 900 football fields. First Solar Inc. was negotiating to lease an adjacent property, its second project in the county. Last year, the Arizona company began capturing sunlight on 400,000 black solar panels in a separate project, converting the abundant sunlight into about 30 megawatts of power.

SunEdison Inc. has presented plans for its own utility-scale solar farm to county commissioners, and Recurrent Energy, a subsidiary of Canadian Solar Inc., is readying another site nearby for construction.

State incentives in California, Nevada and North Carolina helped fund the construction of many large-scale solar farms designed to sell electricity into those local power grids. But in Texas, while there is federal financial support for such projects, there are no state subsidies or mandates that encourage solar power.

26 BILLION in taxpayer dollars is not cheap silly boy.

 

[CultureCitizen]

I didn't say you could charge your E Vehicle with a powerwall.
But 10 kwh are definitively enough to power a home, at least for a couple of days.

Avg home consumption is somewhere near 1KW per hour. You live in a Yurt? An NYC apartment?
And the "powerwall" is 7KW-hrs for about $7000 installed.. Not 10...

And why are we discussing homes anyway? Don't you know there's an economy to power? You want to go to hospital and end up in field tent like some 3rd world place??

... no , not a yurt. I use a gas water-heater which is the energy hog of my appartment. The rest : refrigerator , lamps , computer , laptops , led tv and ocasional heater in winter don't use that much electricity. I have a wooden floor , so I don't use a vaccum cleaner. I use about 1.4 kwh per day. In my case the power wall would store enough energy for a full week.
What surprises me is how the rest of the people use so much electricity .

You should stop worrying about "rest of people". They might have 3 or 4 kids or pets or live in a decent size home with a movie theater room and actual laundry facilities, dishwasher, jacuzzi, and outdoor flood lights... NONE of that is up to you...

I do have laundry and washing machine ... the, elevators,garden and outdoor lights are shared facilities. So I should probably update my figure with them : 3 kwh per day in total.

And , no , it is not up to me... while they don't do any fracking near my water source. Because then , believe me it will be very much up to me.

Sensitive about fracking huh? You like geothermal energy?

No , not really.

 

[skookerasbil]

10 predictions for the world's energy future
by Cassandra Profita Ecotrope | Sept. 19, 2011 11:35 p.m. | Updated: Feb. 19, 2013 1:35 p.m.

The U.S. Energy Information Administration released 2011 Energy Outlook yesterday, with new projections for world energy use in 2035. The agency predicts:

1. • A lot more energy use worldwide: World energy consumption will grow by 53 percent from 2008 to 2035, and half of that growth will come from China and India.
   • China will outpace the U.S.: China will use 68 percent more energy than the U.S. by 2035. And a lot of it will come from coal. China will account for 76 percent of the increase in world coal use.
   • China and India will lead energy growth: in 2008 the two countries made up 21 percent of world energy consumption. In 2035, it will be 31 percent.
   • Fossil fuels will still dominate: They will account for 78 percent of world energy use in 2035. Coal consumption will grow by 1.5 percent a year.
   • Renewable energy will double: Consumption will increase by 2.8 percent a year, and its share of total energy use will grow from 10 percent in 2008 to 15 percent in 2035. That is, if current laws and policies remain in place. Renewables will be the fastest growing source of new electricity generation, increasing by 3.0 percent and outpacing the average annual increases for natural gas (2.6 percent), nuclear power (2.4 percent), and coal (1.9 percent).
   • More fracked natural gas: Natural gas will be the fastest-growing fossil fuel, thanks in large part to new extraction methods (such as fracking) for gas in tight rock formations, shale, and coal beds. World natural gas consumption will increase 1.6 percent per year, from 111 trillion cubic feet in 2008 to 169 trillion cubic feet in 2035. Supplies from the U.S., Canada and China will increase.
   • Gas prices stay high: A barrel of light sweet crude oil will reach $125 per barrel (they’re around $90 a barrel today). However, the EIA reports, depending on supply and demand, and economic growth in developing countries, the price of oil could be as high as $200 a barrel by 2035 or as low as $50 a barrel.
   • Oil consumption keeps growing: The world’s petroleum other liquid fuels usage will increase by 36.9 million barrels a day from 2008 to 2035.
   • More gas from biofuels and oil sands: Less than half the growth in fuel consumption will come from conventional crude production. Production of unconventional sources including biofuels, oil sands, extra heavy oil, coal-to-liquids and gas-to-liquids will grow from 3.9 million barrels a day in 2088 to 13.1 million barrels a day in 2035.
   • Carbon emissions will rise: Energy-related carbon-dioxide emissions rise by 43 percent – from 30.2 billion metric tons in 2008 to 43.2 billion metric tons in 2035. Much of the increase will come from developing countries, especially Asia.

10 predictions for the world's energy future



Note.....this article is from 2011. Now we are almost in 2016 and all projections remain static.( EIA - 2015). The AGW crowd all live in Wishuponastarsville, USA, most perfectly illustrated in comments related to China going green. What more is there to say???


In other words, the AGW bozo's are taking bows for renewable energy producing in the area of 10% of our electricity by about 2040!! w0w!!!

 

[skookerasbil]

bottom line?

"Costs" don't matter to progressives. If its on the backs of the taxpayers its, "FUCK YOU!!"

Thankfully, their idea's have gotten zero traction in the eye's of the public. Evidence? Zero climate legislation in the past 8 years and Cap and Trade becoming a relic of a former era!!! And ps.....the House is going to remain red until at least 2020!!!Many thanks to Republican governors doing some kick-ass re-districting efforts!!!

 

[Old Rocks]

Global Consumption of Fossil Fuels Continues to Increase - IER

BP recently released its Statistical Review of World Energy 2015http://instituteforenergyresearch.o...-of-fossil-fuels-continues-to-increase/#_edn1 and found that consumption of fossil fuels in 2014 continued to increase despite primary energy consumption just 0.9 percent higher, which, absent the financial crisis, is the slowest growth of global energy demand since the late 1990s. Global oil consumption grew 0.8 percent in 2014, while natural gas and coal consumption each increased by 0.4 percent. Despite these increases, the leaders of the G7 countries (United States, Germany, France, UK, Italy, Canada, and Japan) agreed tophase out the use of fossil fuels by the end of the century.[ii]

Smaller increase than estimated.

 

[Old Rocks]

Global Consumption of Fossil Fuels Continues to Increase - IER

Growth in non-hydro renewables (including biofuels) accounted for almost a third of the total increase in primary energy in 2014, and they provided more than 40 percent of the increase in power generation. Although renewable energy in power generation increased 12 percent in 2014, it was below its 10-year average of 15.3 percent growth and was its slowest growth rate since 2003. This slowdown was driven by wind, whose growth rate in 2014 was 10.2 percent–less than half its 10-year rate of 23.5 percent. Solar power increased its output by 38 percent in 2014. Non-hydro renewables accounted for just 3 percent of global primary energy in 2014.

Source: BP, http://www.bp.com/content/dam/bp/pd...rld-energy-2015-spencer-dale-presentation.pdf

Looks like renewables are taking a far greater market share than the estimate.

 

[Old Rocks]

Well, don't need to link to anything to show that gas prices have not stayed high.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Well, don't need to link to anything to show that gas prices have not stayed high.

Thanks to Saudi Arabia and there hatred of Iran, but you know Damn well liberals wish gas prices was sky high so people would stop buying gas guzzlers.

 

[CultureCitizen]

Well, don't need to link to anything to show that gas prices have not stayed high.

Thanks to Saudi Arabia and there hatred of Iran, but you know Damn well liberals wish gas prices was sky high so people would stop buying gas guzzlers.

I would actually like oil prices to be kept around $80-$90 : no fracking or tar sands can make a profit at that price and the price is high enough for some solar and wind energy facilities to make a profit .

 

[Wyatt earp]

Well, don't need to link to anything to show that gas prices have not stayed high.

Thanks to Saudi Arabia and there hatred of Iran, but you know Damn well liberals wish gas prices was sky high so people would stop buying gas guzzlers.

I would actually like oil prices to be kept around $80-$90 : no fracking or tar sands can make a profit at that price and the price is high enough for some solar and wind energy facilities to make a profit .

Just reading an article today saying a billion barrels of reserve oil is being wiped off the books this year, I wonder how bad it will hit the fracking and tar sands industry next year with investments?

Edit billions

Billions of Barrels of Oil Vanish in a Puff of Accounting Smoke

 

[skookerasbil]

Just as an aside and pretty hysterical if you think about it...........

Where would the growth of renewables be in 2015 if the country had a decent rate of growth? Stumbles along at anemic growth rates partly due to GDP rates that have been a joke in recent years........but to a person, every progressive AGW k00k rejects any kind of growth economy, thus, they blow their own face up when doing so!!

 

[CultureCitizen]

Well, don't need to link to anything to show that gas prices have not stayed high.

Thanks to Saudi Arabia and there hatred of Iran, but you know Damn well liberals wish gas prices was sky high so people would stop buying gas guzzlers.

I would actually like oil prices to be kept around $80-$90 : no fracking or tar sands can make a profit at that price and the price is high enough for some solar and wind energy facilities to make a profit .

Just reading an article today saying a billion barrels of reserve oil is being wiped off the books this year, I wonder how bad it will hit the fracking and tar sands industry next year with investments?

Edit billions

Billions of Barrels of Oil Vanish in a Puff of Accounting Smoke

It's going to be bad, and the FED is partly responsible for it ZIRP gave them the cheap money to create a ponzi scheme.
Now the only way to soften the blow is to keep ZIRP or near ZIRP while the fracking bubble deflates , still , thousands will loose their jobs and their money.

 

[Boss]

Well, don't need to link to anything to show that gas prices have not stayed high.

Thanks to Saudi Arabia and there hatred of Iran, but you know Damn well liberals wish gas prices was sky high so people would stop buying gas guzzlers.

I would actually like oil prices to be kept around $80-$90 : no fracking or tar sands can make a profit at that price and the price is high enough for some solar and wind energy facilities to make a profit .

We don't control oil prices. They are not even controlled by a free market enterprise. Energy companies are going to make profit just like every capitalist company on the planet is going to make profit. This is not left for YOU and ME to dictate or control. Fracking and tar sands are legitimate ways for energy companies to find energy which is in demand, which results in their capitalistic profit-making of said supply of energy. These are facts of life in a free market capitalist system, CC.

Solar and wind energy has one main problem... Cost. Right now, it is impossible to have some massive switch of technology in our market like with television, the automobile, electricity, etc. First a market has to develop. More and more people are looking at alternative solutions to energy. This is a growing trend that creates a market. What it takes is a "Henry Ford" type to come up with a cheap way for the average American to be energy independent, and there we go. But until that happens, we can't ditch all efforts to drill or frack, or whatever the hell we need to do in order to meet the demands for energy.

You cannot make something less important by making less of it.

 

[Skull Pilot]

By green I mean renewable and recyclable ( the components of the plant can be reused / recycled ) .
This includes : hydro , solar thermal , solar , wind .

Overstated output

Wind only produces on average less than 30% of the rated yield yet the only numbers ever used are the nominal rated capacity

In reality to achieve the numbers touted we would have put up at least 3 times as many wind mills as they say

And windmills are extremely expensive to maintain

 

[Old Rocks]

Well, don't need to link to anything to show that gas prices have not stayed high.

Thanks to Saudi Arabia and there hatred of Iran, but you know Damn well liberals wish gas prices was sky high so people would stop buying gas guzzlers.

I would actually like oil prices to be kept around $80-$90 : no fracking or tar sands can make a profit at that price and the price is high enough for some solar and wind energy facilities to make a profit .

We don't control oil prices. They are not even controlled by a free market enterprise. Energy companies are going to make profit just like every capitalist company on the planet is going to make profit. This is not left for YOU and ME to dictate or control. Fracking and tar sands are legitimate ways for energy companies to find energy which is in demand, which results in their capitalistic profit-making of said supply of energy. These are facts of life in a free market capitalist system, CC.

Solar and wind energy has one main problem... Cost. Right now, it is impossible to have some massive switch of technology in our market like with television, the automobile, electricity, etc. First a market has to develop. More and more people are looking at alternative solutions to energy. This is a growing trend that creates a market. What it takes is a "Henry Ford" type to come up with a cheap way for the average American to be energy independent, and there we go. But until that happens, we can't ditch all efforts to drill or frack, or whatever the hell we need to do in order to meet the demands for energy.

You cannot make something less important by making less of it.

This is a strawman, Boss. In the last decade, we have seen huge decreases in the cost of energy provided by wind and solar. In the meantime, the cost of coal fired has increased. And a second and very important consideration is the ability to store at grid scale. That development is in progress right now with two factories of that kind of battery right here in the US. And one of them has a contract for a significant number of those batteries from China. Selling our products to China is a good deal, right?

Yes, we are going to need more energy. There is plenty untapped, all we have to do is throw a gird across where it is at. Very few externalities for wind, solar, and geothermal.

 

[Old Rocks]

Just as an aside and pretty hysterical if you think about it...........

Where would the growth of renewables be in 2015 if the country had a decent rate of growth? Stumbles along at anemic growth rates partly due to GDP rates that have been a joke in recent years........but to a person, every progressive AGW k00k rejects any kind of growth economy, thus, they blow their own face up when doing so!!

LOL. Certainly, bitch about the 'anemic' rate of growth. Elect the GOP in 2016 and enjoy the wonderful rate of growth we saw in 2008.

 

[CultureCitizen]

Well, don't need to link to anything to show that gas prices have not stayed high.

Thanks to Saudi Arabia and there hatred of Iran, but you know Damn well liberals wish gas prices was sky high so people would stop buying gas guzzlers.

I would actually like oil prices to be kept around $80-$90 : no fracking or tar sands can make a profit at that price and the price is high enough for some solar and wind energy facilities to make a profit .

We don't control oil prices. They are not even controlled by a free market enterprise. Energy companies are going to make profit just like every capitalist company on the planet is going to make profit. This is not left for YOU and ME to dictate or control. Fracking and tar sands are legitimate ways for energy companies to find energy which is in demand, which results in their capitalistic profit-making of said supply of energy. These are facts of life in a free market capitalist system, CC.

Solar and wind energy has one main problem... Cost. Right now, it is impossible to have some massive switch of technology in our market like with television, the automobile, electricity, etc. First a market has to develop. More and more people are looking at alternative solutions to energy. This is a growing trend that creates a market. What it takes is a "Henry Ford" type to come up with a cheap way for the average American to be energy independent, and there we go. But until that happens, we can't ditch all efforts to drill or frack, or whatever the hell we need to do in order to meet the demands for energy.

You cannot make something less important by making less of it.

Fracking and tar sands , well Boss, here we do have a problem , there is significant evidence that fracking produces tremors and can pollute the water supply. And while I don't think tremmors are a big problem water pollution is a big problem, specially because it is a public good ( like air ). Tar sands are even worse , they cause massive ecological damage and have already destroyed hundreds of miles of woods and tundra.
They may be legitimate business, but their costs don't seem to be including any of the costs derived from the destruction tied to their business model ( add zirp to that ) . What would be the real cost of fracking and tar sands if they had to repair damages once their business was done ?

Saudis are controlling the oil prize , and this reflects in a significant drop in their dollar reserves. They can't keep their artificial rates forever. Sooner than later they will run out of reserves and then prices will rebound ( I still expect a couple of years of cheap oil , before going back into the $80 mark ) .

Solar and wind cost...
They are slightly more expensive: adding a couple TW plants per year shouldn't be such a big deal... storage on the other hand is a more complex matter specially when you consider long term storage.

 

[Arianrhod]

I'm sure I can.. But it's your assertion.. Are you WRONG???

Feel free to prove I am.

 

[Boss]

Well, don't need to link to anything to show that gas prices have not stayed high.

Thanks to Saudi Arabia and there hatred of Iran, but you know Damn well liberals wish gas prices was sky high so people would stop buying gas guzzlers.

I would actually like oil prices to be kept around $80-$90 : no fracking or tar sands can make a profit at that price and the price is high enough for some solar and wind energy facilities to make a profit .

We don't control oil prices. They are not even controlled by a free market enterprise. Energy companies are going to make profit just like every capitalist company on the planet is going to make profit. This is not left for YOU and ME to dictate or control. Fracking and tar sands are legitimate ways for energy companies to find energy which is in demand, which results in their capitalistic profit-making of said supply of energy. These are facts of life in a free market capitalist system, CC.

Solar and wind energy has one main problem... Cost. Right now, it is impossible to have some massive switch of technology in our market like with television, the automobile, electricity, etc. First a market has to develop. More and more people are looking at alternative solutions to energy. This is a growing trend that creates a market. What it takes is a "Henry Ford" type to come up with a cheap way for the average American to be energy independent, and there we go. But until that happens, we can't ditch all efforts to drill or frack, or whatever the hell we need to do in order to meet the demands for energy.

You cannot make something less important by making less of it.

Fracking and tar sands , well Boss, here we do have a problem , there is significant evidence that fracking produces tremors and can pollute the water supply. And while I don't think tremmors are a big problem water pollution is a big problem, specially because it is a public good ( like air ). Tar sands are even worse , they cause massive ecological damage and have already destroyed hundreds of miles of woods and tundra.
They may be legitimate business, but their costs don't seem to be including any of the costs derived from the destruction tied to their business model ( add zirp to that ) . What would be the real cost of fracking and tar sands if they had to repair damages once their business was done ?

Saudis are controlling the oil prize , and this reflects in a significant drop in their dollar reserves. They can't keep their artificial rates forever. Sooner than later they will run out of reserves and then prices will rebound ( I still expect a couple of years of cheap oil , before going back into the $80 mark ) .

Solar and wind cost...
They are slightly more expensive: adding a couple TW plants per year shouldn't be such a big deal... storage on the other hand is a more complex matter specially when you consider long term storage.

The cost to the consumer to transition to solar or wind is where the problem is. There isn't any graph or chart that will show you this is cheap or can be made cheap because it isn't. Prices may be coming down... new technology may be on the way... but it's still not viable in a free market condition. A long way to go.

Fracking and tar sands are the result of capitalists attempting to meet demand with supply. The more you restrict domestic drilling, off-shore drilling, etc., the more these techniques will be used because the demand has to be met some way. And there are environmental risks associated with EVERY energy source.

But as someone pointed out earlier... Solar and Wind aren't going to replace crude oil.