'Instead of Gaza' | How should we name the new city?

[Sixties Fan]

Reality check: neither are the Palestinians. You are taking the horrific behavior of a terrorist group akin to ISIS, and applying it to condone ethnic cleansing of an entire population. What you describe was and is also being done being to civilians, women, girls, boys, babies…in the over 50 year long ongoing Congo war (and it has gotten far less attention from the western world)…no calls for ethnic cleansing of any ethnic groups. In Myanmar, thousands of Rohinga were put in mass concentration camps. Then so called “peaceful” Buddhists attacked the Muslim Rohinga, those who remained in their villages, burned entire families alive locked in their homes, threw babies into bon fires and brutally gang raped women and children. They then “ethnically cleansed” the area and the Rohinga are crowded into horrific refugee camps in Bangladesh, an unpoverished country itself. Both the brutality of war crimes in these conflicts and the forced expulsion of “inconvenient” people who oppose the ruling ethnic groups are nothing new.

So you think ethnic cleansing is a great idea for getting rid of a troublesome native population? Guess what…it is what US European Americans did to its own native population.





Not entirely true.

You quote the results of one poll taken well after Israel’s bombing of Gaza and a death toll of thousands including entire families and children. That aspect is (also the results of a poll), most Palestinians do not believe Hamas actually committed those atrocities (kind of like our Maganuts refuse to believe J6). This indicates one of many problems: very little real information is share about each other among Palestinians and Israeli’s and that fosters even more hate and dehumanization of the other. Makes it easier for groups like Hamas to grow and retain control.

I’ve asked you this before and I’ll ask it again: how would you expect Palestinians to feel after more than 26,000 people dead, over 80% displaced, most of Gaza reduced to uninhabitable rubble, food and water cut off and the voices in the Israel’s ruling rightwing coalition calling for forced expulsions from their homeland cynically disguised as “humanitarian“ policies?

If how you can’t put yourselves in their shoes…well, how do you think Israeli’s feel about Palestinians after the horrors Hamas inflicted on Oct 7, and continue to inflict on the hostages they hold? Do think there is any “love” for them?

How do we bridge this gap? The conflict seems existential to both.


There is no right side when both sides want to eliminate an entire population.

1) There is no torture on the part of the IDF on Palestinians.

2) Israeli Hostages are still being tortured and raped by Hamas

3) Arabs have never EVER been native of ancient Canaan or from the region known as Syria Palestina.

4) Being Arabs, the Palestinians are clearly directly indigenous of a Peninsula called Arabia.

5) Why should the Israelis have any love left for the Palestinians, Hamas or actual civilians who took part of 10/7 ? This is exactly why Israel will not be allowing any Palestinians to have jobs in Israel forever, if ever again.

6) You are giving Hamas numbers. At least 9000 of those are Hamas fighters and other terrorists.
Hamas brought this on Gaza the same way the Nazis brought destruction to Germany. In both cases there was much destruction and many people displaced. The same as it is happening in Ukraine by the Russians.

But Israel is not the aggressor here, it was Hamas, just as Russia attacked Ukraine, and Germany invaded Poland and all other countries.

7) There is no BOTH SIDES wanting to eliminate the other population.

There is the Palestinian terrorist side which wants to destroy Israel and eliminate all Jews, and there is the Israeli side which is getting rid of all the terrorist vermin in Gaza so that there will be no more 10/7 as the terrorist leaders themselves were trying to promise after that day in order to excuse what they had done.


There is UNWRA which needs to go as far away to the moon as possible. Totally undone. Palestinians need a normal education, which will lead to a normal life, and a peaceful life with Israel and Egypt. DO NOT for get about Egypt which would not allow people from Gaza in because of the experiences they have had with them before.


Stop exaggerating everything based on the sources you read.

 

[Coyote]

1) There is no torture on the part of the IDF on Palestinians.

2) Israeli Hostages are still being tortured and raped by Hamas

3) Arabs have never EVER been native of ancient Canaan or from the region known as Syria Palestina.

4) Being Arabs, the Palestinians are clearly directly indigenous of a Peninsula called Arabia.

5) Why should the Israelis have any love left for the Palestinians, Hamas or actual civilians who took part of 10/7 ? This is exactly why Israel will not be allowing any Palestinians to have jobs in Israel forever, if ever again.

6) You are giving Hamas numbers. At least 9000 of those are Hamas fighters and other terrorists.
Hamas brought this on Gaza the same way the Nazis brought destruction to Germany. In both cases there was much destruction and many people displaced. The same as it is happening in Ukraine by the Russians.

But Israel is not the aggressor here, it was Hamas, just as Russia attacked Ukraine, and Germany invaded Poland and all other countries.

7) There is no BOTH SIDES wanting to eliminate the other population.

There is the Palestinian terrorist side which wants to destroy Israel and eliminate all Jews, and there is the Israeli side which is getting rid of all the terrorist vermin in Gaza so that there will be no more 10/7 as the terrorist leaders themselves were trying to promise after that day in order to excuse what they had done.


There is UNWRA which needs to go as far away to the moon as possible. Totally undone. Palestinians need a normal education, which will lead to a normal life, and a peaceful life with Israel and Egypt. DO NOT for get about Egypt which would not allow people from Gaza in because of the experiences they have had with them before.


Stop exaggerating everything based on the sources you read.

Your own sources are questionable, particularly when claiming Palestinians originate from the Arabian peninsula be aipuse they are part of Arabic culture which covers a large area and a variety of different ethnic groups.

Your argument in this is nothing than an attempt to disenfranchise and dehumanize an entire group of people. It is no different than those who claim Jews aren’t native.

 

[westwall]

Your own sources are questionable, particularly when claiming Palestinians originate from the Arabian peninsula be aipuse they are part of Arabic culture which covers a large area and a variety of different ethnic groups.

Your argument in this is nothing than an attempt to disenfranchise and dehumanize an entire group of people. It is no different than those who claim Jews aren’t native.

Except there is actual evidence of the Jews in Israel going back to pre Roman times. The Roman's wrote extensively about their problems with them. But not a peep about Palestinians.

 

[Coyote]

Except there is actual evidence of the Jews in Israel going back to pre Roman times.

And there is actual (genetic) evidence of the Palestinians descending from people going back thousands of years. It is a pointless argument designed to further one side‘s agenda.

 

[westwall]

And there is actual (genetic) evidence of the Palestinians descending from people going back thousands of years. It is a pointless argument designed to further one side‘s agenda.

I have never claimed otherwise. But those genetic studies also place them at the southern tip of the Sinai peninsula.

 

[Coyote]

6) You are giving Hamas numbers. At least 9000 of those are Hamas fighters and other terrorists.
Hamas brought this on Gaza the same way the Nazis brought destruction to Germany. In both cases there was much destruction and many people displaced. The same as it is happening in Ukraine by the Russians.

I have no more reason to believe Israel’s claims any more than Hamas. Both lack independent corroboration and Hamas does not differentiate between civilian and fighters in their counts.

 

[Coyote]

I have never claimed otherwise. But those genetic studies also place them at the southern tip of the Sinai peninsula.

The majority of their lineage comes from the same area as Jews. They are a mix of ancient peoples. Jews and Palestinians are brothers.

 

[westwall]

The majority of their lineage comes from the same area as Jews. They are a mix of ancient peoples. Jews and Palestinians are brothers.

Nope. Opposite side of the Sinai.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Your own sources are questionable, particularly when claiming Palestinians originate from the Arabian peninsula be aipuse they are part of Arabic culture which covers a large area and a variety of different ethnic groups.

Your argument in this is nothing than an attempt to disenfranchise and dehumanize an entire group of people. It is no different than those who claim Jews aren’t native.

Poor response.

Palestinians do call themselves Arabs. I am not counting the Bedouin and Druze, etc. Most are Arabs, and they are from Arabia. It is not disenfranchising or dehumanizing anyone. Simply saying where people are indigenous from.

I am not counting the Berbers, the Copts, the Yazidi, Assyrians, and any and all other indigenous people to the lands Muslims, mainly Arabs migrated to the point that 1400 years later all of those lands, outside of Arabia - not counting Iran - are speaking Arabic and have a somewhat Arabic culture besides their own culture.

Muslims, especially the PA, PLO, Fatah, Hamas are the ones destroying Jewish archeology, and non Jewish etc and denying Jewish history post 1948. Not the other way around.

Jews have actually humanized Arabs, who call themselves Palestinians since 1964 - why not since the Mandate or since 1948? -, by helping them with healthcare, education and jobs. You will not see the same done towards Israelis. Only attacks, attacks, attacks with children as young as 10 or 11.

The Palestinian education against Jews and Israel has dehumanized Israelis to the point where Gaza people did what they did on 10/7.

When Gaza is free of Hamas and UNWRA, may that place find the peace so many there seek of being free of a worthless education of hatred, and most of the money going towards terrorists and their supporters.

 

[Sixties Fan]

I have no more reason to believe Israel’s claims any more than Hamas. Both lack independent corroboration and Hamas does not differentiate between civilian and fighters in their counts.

Whatever the Israeli account is, Hamas is losing and losing badly.

 

[Sixties Fan]

The majority of their lineage comes from the same area as Jews. They are a mix of ancient peoples. Jews and Palestinians are brothers.

Arabs and Jews are NOT brothers, cousins or anything else.

Arabs do not come from Ishmael, this fairytale was invented after Islam was founded. They even appropriated the Jewish Patriarchs.

You have no facts to corroborate what the Muslim side has been trying to make others believe since they lost the 1948 to the Jews. Nothing.

 

[Sixties Fan]

And there is actual (genetic) evidence of the Palestinians descending from people going back thousands of years. It is a pointless argument designed to further one side‘s agenda.

There is FAKE genetic evidence from the Palestinian side.

Try asking them for the names of those tested.
Try to have those tested be tested again.

It will not happen because there were no tests, just the allegation of one or more being done and the "result" being passed as real.

 

[Coyote]

Whatever the Israeli account is, Hamas is losing and losing badly.

Which is good. However the death toll of civilians is not and it is coming too close to genocide particularly when other more effective means of attacking Hamas have been recommended by allies. The claim that they are taking care to avoid civilian casualties does ring true given the choices in bombs, the seige, and even comments from political leaders. So they are raining down leaflets. And bombing them in supposedly safe areas, preventing most humanitarian aid from getting in.

There are choices being made that is threatening to turn this into genocide, and that was made pretty clear in the ruling.

 

[Shusha]

The majority of their lineage comes from the same area as Jews. They are a mix of ancient peoples. Jews and Palestinians are brothers.

A great many of us are a mix of "ancient peoples". Blood quantum is not an appropriate way of determining the rights of a collective.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Which is good. However the death toll of civilians is not and it is coming too close to genocide particularly when other more effective means of attacking Hamas have been recommended by allies. The claim that they are taking care to avoid civilian casualties does ring true given the choices in bombs, the seige, and even comments from political leaders. So they are raining down leaflets. And bombing them in supposedly safe areas, preventing most humanitarian aid from getting in.

There are choices being made that is threatening to turn this into genocide, and that was made pretty clear in the ruling.

And amazingly, as always, you do not notice your mirroring what Hamas and all anti Israel people are doing.

- Calling what Israel is doing as "genocide"

- Humanitarian aid is going in. Hamas has first pick of each and every truck that has gone in. They have weapons, the civilians in need do not.

- It is not genocide to target only your enemy, Hamas, islamic Jihad, etc and do it effectively.

- It will never be a genocide. Stop changing the meaning of the word, as Israel haters are doing.

 

[Coyote]

A great many of us are a mix of "ancient peoples". Blood quantum is not an appropriate way of determining the rights of a collective.

It is as appropriate as anything else. The SOLE reason for this type argument is to deny or diminish identity and rights.

 

[Sixties Fan]

It is as appropriate as anything else. The SOLE reason for this type argument is to deny or diminish identity and rights.

You are changing the topic of the thread. Why?

Why does it have to go back to who is indigenous?

The people of Gaza are going to stay there as long as they want, leave and never return those who wish to leave as they have been doing even before 10/7.

The thread is just a play as to whether Gaza will retain its name or if people in Gaza, or anyone else, would end up changing the name and give it a new life.

Enough of changing what the topic of any thread is.

 

[Coyote]

And amazingly, as always, you do not notice your mirroring what Hamas and all anti Israel people are doing.

- Calling what Israel is doing as "genocide"

- Humanitarian aid is going in. Hamas has first pick of each and every truck that has gone in. They have weapons, the civilians in need do not.

- It is not genocide to target only your enemy, Hamas, islamic Jihad, etc and do it effectively.

- It will never be a genocide. Stop changing the meaning of the word, as Israel haters are doing.

Let me be clear: I am not calling it genocide nor HAVE I called it genocide., I am saying it is only a few more choices away from being genocide. I have said this multiple times and I do not use the term lightly (for example I’ve never said the prior conflicts constituted genocide).

How do you know it will “never” be genocide?

 

[Zebra]

The name 'Novah' is a popular suggestion.

I personally, like the name 'Oz,
which, a word for courage
and valor in Hebrew

the wizard of Oz.?

 

[Coyote]

..

You are changing the topic of the thread. Why?

Why does it have to go back to who is indigenous?

The people of Gaza are going to stay there as long as they want, leave and never return those who wish to leave as they have been doing even before 10/7.

The thread is just a play as to whether Gaza will retain its name or if people in Gaza, or anyone else, would end up changing the name and give it a new life.

Enough of changing what the topic of any thread is.

Why did you bring it up then? I was responding to your point.