'Instead of Gaza' | How should we name the new city?

[rylah]

It is really very simple. If you don't mean to say (or imply) that Israel is committing genocide - don't SAY the word.

If what you really mean is Israel should [conduct some specific operation or refrain from conducting some specific operation] - SAY that.

"if they killed K'ab, it's better for me to be swallowed by earth right now"

Hyperbole is the functional prerequisite of Arabic communication.
It also assumes delusions perpetuated in mass to dictate reality.

There's the famous story about an old man spreading a rumor
in the market, watching as people gather, gets very excited,
and asks a kid what's fuss about, forgetting who started it,
only to join the crowd to buy his own carpets.

 

[rylah]

the name …

is the same!

Gaza/Áza - audacious, adjective

Hamas - corruption, verb

Óz - strength, noun

 

[Roudy]

Gaza/Áza - audacious, adjective

Hamas - corruption, verb

Óz - strength, noun

Allahuakbar: Heil Hitler, updated.

 

[Zebra]

Allahuakbar: Hiel Hitler, updated.

Hiel or Heil?

 

[Zebra]

Allahuakbar: Hiel Hitler, updated.

another update ….

HH … or 88 ... a secret neo.nazi code

so they cover themselves

 

[rylah]

Allahuakbar: Heil Hitler, updated.

Abrakadabra

 

[Coyote]

Because Israel has no intent to cause the destruction of a collective peoples based on their immutable qualities. Israel is responding to an atrocity committed against them. Is the response significant? Of course it is. It HAS to be. Because Hamas and Islamic Jihad do have the intent to cause the destruction of an entire people.

Here is a definition of genocide from the National Holocaust Museum:

The legal term “genocide” refers to acts committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group. According to the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (1948), genocide is an international crime. The acts that constitute genocide fall into five categories:

• Killing members of the group
• Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
• Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part
• Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group
• Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group

There are a number of other serious, violent crimes that do not fall under the specific definition of genocide. They include crimes against humanity, war crimes, ethnic cleansing, and mass killing.

So, I agree, it is not yet genocide. They are, however, forcing the people into smaller and smaller areas…about half of Gaza’s population is now concentrated around Rafah, millions of people in horrendous conditions described by aid workers as amongst the worst they’ve worked in. Universities, cultural and historical sites, schools, hospitals all bombed.

There is also what members of the current government and cabinet are saying or refusing to refute or condemn such as a “voluntary” resettlement to places like The Congo.

 

[Coyote]

Ugh. The ratio of civilian to combatant deaths is 1.5 to 1. Its probably 1 to 1, given the way Hamas counts "civilians". That is better by FAR than any other conflict in recent history. Best before this was 5 to 1.

I very much doubt that.

 

[Coyote]

The HAMAS savages are intent on driving up the Palestinian death toll as high as possible. These monsters would rather sacrifice their own people in order to make Israel look bad.

I wouldn’t doubt that of Hamas.

However, they aren’t the ones reducing buildings to rubble, killing or burying thousands of civilians, over a third of them children.

 

[Coyote]

Wasn't it called Gaza in the time of Samson and Delilah?

I don’t actually know….

 

[Coyote]

The very fact that you bring up that term is proof that you are using this term too lightly. If you are not calling it a genocide, don't use the terminology.

Oh so now we can’t even bring it up? We can’t say something is approaching genocide? That’s the problem. There are a lot of things we aren’t allowed to say when it comes to Israel’s actions.

 

[frigidweirdo]

The name 'Novah' is a popular suggestion.

I personally, like the name 'Oz,
which, a word for courage
and valor in Hebrew

New Grimsby

 

[Shusha]

Oh so now we can’t even bring it up? We can’t say something is approaching genocide? That’s the problem. There are a lot of things we aren’t allowed to say when it comes to Israel’s actions.

But, again(!), you are not criticizing Israel's actions. You are painting the genocide-color on Israel by using weasel language like "approaching genocide". If you want to criticize Israel's actions -- criticize some actions and give an alternative.

Pick an action. Criticize it. Outline an alternative.

 

[AZrailwhale]

You may like or dislike the Arabs. I am not going to defend them, anyway. How they live, run their societies etc is their internal matters, I don't care at all.

But what should be noted is that a number of Arab ruling elites have grown up enough to make 'adult' decisions, such as recognition of Israel, or the Abraham Accords. And negotiations about the 'Palestinian issue' should be held with these elites, in the first turn.

The longer this war goes on in the way it does now, or, what be even worse, in the case of some 'ethnic cleansing' attempts in Gaza all that will make these Arab elites be less mindful about any peace negotiations, but more concerned about 'the Arab street' demands. And this may lead to bigger troubles in the region.

Your so-called “adult” Arabs can’t control the Palestinians. Every nation that accepted any attempt to control or assimilate them has been destabilized by the man on the street Palestinian. The Palestinian’s core beliefs are that Israel stole their land, and are evil sub-human murderers. The only solution the Palestinians see to Israel is the extermination of ALL jews, not just Israelis, but ALL Jews.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Yes, they could and should. Though, I am not sure it was really possible while blockade of the Gaza Strip was in place, but nonetheless.

All that doesn't answer on what to do now. Ethnic cleansing? Go on.

The only reason the blockade happened was that the Palestinians used their easy access to Israel to commit terrorist murders. So the Israelis blocked off their access. Then they used the international aid supplies to build fortifications, tunnels and bombardment rockets to kill Israeli civilians.

 

[fncceo]

We can’t say something is approaching genocide?

You can if you want to look like a complete fool.

 

[Coyote]

But, again(!), you are not criticizing Israel's actions. You are painting the genocide-color on Israel by using weasel language like "approaching genocide". If you want to criticize Israel's actions -- criticize some actions and give an alternative.

No. I am absolutely criticizing Israel’s actions, THAT’s the problem. In another discussion I was more so specific, linked to an article where possible alternatives to the massive, imprecise bombs being used to level Gaza. Frankly, why pretend to care about civilians when you are using munitions like this in urban warfare?

https://www.cnn.com/gaza-israel-big-bombs/index.html#:~:text=Israeli%20officials%20have%20argued%20that,can%20to%20minimize%20civilian%20casualties.

In the first month of its war in Gaza, Israel dropped hundreds of massive bombs, many of them capable of killing or wounding people more than 1,000 feet away, analysis by CNN and artificial intelligence company Synthetaic suggests.

Satellite imagery from those early days of the war reveals more than 500 impact craters over 12 meters (40 feet) in diameter, consistent with those left behind by 2,000-pound bombs. Those are four times heavier than the largest bombs the United States dropped on ISIS in Mosul, Iraq, during the war against the extremist group there.

Weapons and warfare experts blame the extensive use of heavy munitions such as the 2,000-pound bomb for the soaring death toll. The population of Gaza is packed together much more tightly than almost anywhere else on earth, so the use of such heavy munitions has a profound effect.

“The use of 2,000-pound bombs in an area as densely populated as Gaza means it will take decades for communities to recover,” said John Chappell, advocacy and legal fellow at CIVIC, a DC-based group focused on minimizing civilian harm in conflict.


Or

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/13/politics/intelligence-assessment-dumb-bombs-israel-gaza/index.html

Nearly half of the air-to-ground munitions that Israel has used in Gaza in its war with Hamas since October 7 have been unguided, otherwise known as “dumb bombs,” according to a new US intelligence assessment.

The assessment, compiled by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence and described to CNN by three sources who have seen it, says that about 40-45% of the 29,000 air-to-ground munitions Israel has used have been unguided. The rest have been precision-guided munitions, the assessment says.

Unguided munitions are typically less precise and can pose a greater threat to civilians, especially in such a densely populated area like Gaza. The rate at which Israel is using the dumb bombs may be contributing to the soaring civilian death toll.

And it isn’t just “anti-Israel” factions concerned about this.

This opinion piece makes some very good points.

I'm a Holocaust scholar. We need to talk about what's happening in Gaza.

Opinion: The labels we use can inform foreign policy, so we need to be precise about what’s happening in Gaza, writes Elizabeth Heineman.

www.desmoinesregister.com

Stating that conditions are there for genocide to occur is not inaccurate nor is it weasel words. To say that Israel might be only a few decisions away from war crimes or genocide is also not inaccurate. It needs to be part of the conversation.

We can say it of Russia regarding Ukraine; we can say it of China regarding Uighurs; we can even say Hamas is attempting genocide …no one cares, but we can’t even suggest the possibility that this COULD occur when it comes to Israel?

Consider: More than half of Gaza’s population has now been forced (or herded) into Rafah. That is more than a million people in a city that normally housed 200,000.

Pick an action. Criticize it. Outline an alternative.

 

[AZrailwhale]

I stopped with your first sentence: “Neither are the Palestinians.” The fact is that while they didn’t actually set the children on fire, the MAJORITY of them support the terrorist massacre.

Can’t have people who support a genocidal massacre living next door. They had chances before, but after October 7, they gotta go.

Problem is, nobody wants these uncivilized and hate-filled people.

And as far as putting myself in Palestinians’ shoes, why should I? These Jew-haters have been taught to want to kill Jews from early childhood, and now we have them marching on college campuses calling for the genocide of Jews.

Why don’t you ask pro-Palestinians to put themselves in the Israelis’ shoes? Thousands of innocent Jews have witnessed the torture of their children, parents, and siblings….and hundreds more are tortured not knowing if their hostage relatives are being raped to death, starved to death, or already dead?

You ALWAYS take up the side of the Muslim savages. Why aren’t you clamoring for the return of the hostages? Do you know Israel offered an extended cease-fire for a return of all hostages (or their bodies) but the Muslim barbarians turned it down??

The average Palestinian is no different than the eight, nine and ten year old Hitler Youth who picked up weapons in WWII. They have been indoctrinated from birth to regard Jews as subhumans to be exterminated. That indoctrination has often been done in UN operated schools by UN and UNWRA paid employees. The indoctrination can’t be changed, it’s been going on since 1948. Compromise simply isn’t possible, for there to be peace, a tyrant will have to seize power over the Palestinians and compel civilized behavior towards Israel by bloody force for generations.

 

[AZrailwhale]

No. I am absolutely criticizing Israel’s actions, THAT’s the problem. In another discussion I was more so specific, linked to an article where possible alternatives to the massive, imprecise bombs being used to level Gaza. Frankly, why pretend to care about civilians when you are using munitions like this in urban warfare?

https://www.cnn.com/gaza-israel-big-bombs/index.html#:~:text=Israeli%20officials%20have%20argued%20that,can%20to%20minimize%20civilian%20casualties.

In the first month of its war in Gaza, Israel dropped hundreds of massive bombs, many of them capable of killing or wounding people more than 1,000 feet away, analysis by CNN and artificial intelligence company Synthetaic suggests.

Satellite imagery from those early days of the war reveals more than 500 impact craters over 12 meters (40 feet) in diameter, consistent with those left behind by 2,000-pound bombs. Those are four times heavier than the largest bombs the United States dropped on ISIS in Mosul, Iraq, during the war against the extremist group there.

Weapons and warfare experts blame the extensive use of heavy munitions such as the 2,000-pound bomb for the soaring death toll. The population of Gaza is packed together much more tightly than almost anywhere else on earth, so the use of such heavy munitions has a profound effect.

“The use of 2,000-pound bombs in an area as densely populated as Gaza means it will take decades for communities to recover,” said John Chappell, advocacy and legal fellow at CIVIC, a DC-based group focused on minimizing civilian harm in conflict.


Or

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/13/politics/intelligence-assessment-dumb-bombs-israel-gaza/index.html

Nearly half of the air-to-ground munitions that Israel has used in Gaza in its war with Hamas since October 7 have been unguided, otherwise known as “dumb bombs,” according to a new US intelligence assessment.

The assessment, compiled by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence and described to CNN by three sources who have seen it, says that about 40-45% of the 29,000 air-to-ground munitions Israel has used have been unguided. The rest have been precision-guided munitions, the assessment says.

Unguided munitions are typically less precise and can pose a greater threat to civilians, especially in such a densely populated area like Gaza. The rate at which Israel is using the dumb bombs may be contributing to the soaring civilian death toll.

And it isn’t just “anti-Israel” factions concerned about this.

This opinion piece makes some very good points.

I'm a Holocaust scholar. We need to talk about what's happening in Gaza.

Opinion: The labels we use can inform foreign policy, so we need to be precise about what’s happening in Gaza, writes Elizabeth Heineman.

www.desmoinesregister.com

Stating that conditions are there for genocide to occur is not inaccurate nor is it weasel words. To say that Israel might be only a few decisions away from war crimes or genocide is also not inaccurate. It needs to be part of the conversation.

We can say it of Russia regarding Ukraine; we can say it of China regarding Uighurs; we can even say Hamas is attempting genocide …no one cares, but we can’t even suggest the possibility that this COULD occur when it comes to Israel?

Consider: More than half of Gaza’s population has now been forced (or herded) into Rafah. That is more than a million people in a city that normally housed 200,000.

If nearly half of dropped munitions have been unguided, that means more than half have been guided. The US extensively used unguided munitions in Iraq and Afghanistan; in most cases a target isn’t worth an expensive guided bomb or missile. You are suffering from video game psychosis where precise shots and guided weapons are universal.

 

[Shusha]

No. I am absolutely criticizing Israel’s actions, THAT’s the problem. In another discussion I was more so specific, linked to an article where possible alternatives to the massive, imprecise bombs being used to level Gaza. Frankly, why pretend to care about civilians when you are using munitions like this in urban warfare?

https://www.cnn.com/gaza-israel-big-bombs/index.html#:~:text=Israeli%20officials%20have%20argued%20that,can%20to%20minimize%20civilian%20casualties.

In the first month of its war in Gaza, Israel dropped hundreds of massive bombs, many of them capable of killing or wounding people more than 1,000 feet away, analysis by CNN and artificial intelligence company Synthetaic suggests.

Satellite imagery from those early days of the war reveals more than 500 impact craters over 12 meters (40 feet) in diameter, consistent with those left behind by 2,000-pound bombs. Those are four times heavier than the largest bombs the United States dropped on ISIS in Mosul, Iraq, during the war against the extremist group there.

Weapons and warfare experts blame the extensive use of heavy munitions such as the 2,000-pound bomb for the soaring death toll. The population of Gaza is packed together much more tightly than almost anywhere else on earth, so the use of such heavy munitions has a profound effect.

“The use of 2,000-pound bombs in an area as densely populated as Gaza means it will take decades for communities to recover,” said John Chappell, advocacy and legal fellow at CIVIC, a DC-based group focused on minimizing civilian harm in conflict.


Or

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/13/politics/intelligence-assessment-dumb-bombs-israel-gaza/index.html

Nearly half of the air-to-ground munitions that Israel has used in Gaza in its war with Hamas since October 7 have been unguided, otherwise known as “dumb bombs,” according to a new US intelligence assessment.

The assessment, compiled by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence and described to CNN by three sources who have seen it, says that about 40-45% of the 29,000 air-to-ground munitions Israel has used have been unguided. The rest have been precision-guided munitions, the assessment says.

Unguided munitions are typically less precise and can pose a greater threat to civilians, especially in such a densely populated area like Gaza. The rate at which Israel is using the dumb bombs may be contributing to the soaring civilian death toll.

And it isn’t just “anti-Israel” factions concerned about this.

This opinion piece makes some very good points.

I'm a Holocaust scholar. We need to talk about what's happening in Gaza.

Opinion: The labels we use can inform foreign policy, so we need to be precise about what’s happening in Gaza, writes Elizabeth Heineman.

www.desmoinesregister.com

Yes, I addressed this specifically in another thread.

Stating that conditions are there for genocide to occur is not inaccurate nor is it weasel words. To say that Israel might be only a few decisions away from war crimes or genocide is also not inaccurate. It needs to be part of the conversation.

It is weasel words. It is painting Israel with something that Israel has not done nor is there any realistic indication that Israel is going to do [insert whatever it is you think Israel is going to do which will suddenly prove INTENT to EXTERMINATE a collective peoples). There is no need to use that language to paint Israel with the genocide-colors. Israel is conducting a just war well within the confines of international law.

If you want to IF Israel does [insert if here], then do that. Pick an action that Israel has not done. Clearly state that Israel has not done it. Criticize it. Provide an alternative. That would be totally reasonable.

But "Israel is only a few decisions away from war crimes" is just spraying genocide-paint and hoping it sticks. We have enough people on this board who blindly just accept all the paint thrown at Israel. Be clear what is paint and what is real.