'Instead of Gaza' | How should we name the new city?

[Shusha]

Is Gaza/Palestine a nation?

Well, that is the question, isn't it?

Here's the thing. If it is NOT a nation, what is it?

Is it a rogue terrorist non-state actor unable, at the moment, to join the international community and accept its obligations and responsibilities to its people and to its neighboring states? A non-state actor that invades other sovereign states and commits the most horrific of atrocities on protected persons? Because if THAT is what it is, shouldn't the international community address this? Like seriously. Shouldn't the UN be on TOP of that shit? Like yesterday? Loudly. With boots on the ground. And all the Orders the ICJ can throw at it.

 

[Shusha]

Is Gaza/Palestine a nation?

Alternatively, let's consider that Gaza is a state. Is it a separate and independent Gaza, or a part of Palestine? Either way, it would be a state which invades another sovereign state and commits the most horrific atrocities on protected persons. Shouldn't the international community address this? Shouldn't the UN be on top of that shit? Where are the condemnations? The UNSC resolutions? The ICJ rulings?

 

[Lisa558]

I am not defending Hamas, Lisa.

Expulsion, or ethnic cleansing, of a native population IS a war crime Lisa. If you justify that…what makes you any different than those who want to drive out the Jews?

The differences are:

1) the Jews aren’t torturing the Muslims to death in the most agonizing ways possible, including putting their babies in ovens, setting their children on fire, sawing off the heads of toddlers, cutting a fetus out of the woman’s belly and then slicing its head off while the mother bleeds out on the floor, and going to a music festival of young people to gun down innocents and raping the girls until they are dead - and then raping them after.

2) The Jews didn’t drive out what YOU call the “native population” until their leaders did the above, and the majority of Palestinians supported the massacre.

The Palestinians are such uncivilized, hateful people that even other Arab countries don’t want them. Why should Israel be stuck living next to a population that wants her eliminated and has threatened to keep killing Jews until they’re all dead?

You’re on the wrong side of this.

 

[Lisa558]

Alternatively, let's consider that Gaza is a state. Is it a separate and independent Gaza, or a part of Palestine? Either way, it would be a state which invades another sovereign state and commits the most horrific atrocities on protected persons. Shouldn't the international community address this? Shouldn't the UN be on top of that shit? Where are the condemnations? The UNSC resolutions? The ICJ rulings?

Compare the reaction of American liberals when Russia invaded Ukraine (and even then, they didn’t go on a baby-torture expedition). Americans jumped to the defense of Ukraine.

But because the victims of the massacre were Jews, American liberals tske the opposite tact: defend the terrorists, IGNORE the massacre that set off the war, and ramp up their antisemitism.

 

[Failzero]

Compare the reaction of American liberals when Russia invaded Ukraine (and even then, they didn’t go on a baby-torture expedition). Americans jumped to the defense of Ukraine.

But because the victims of the massacre were Jews, American liberals tske the opposite tact: defend the terrorists, IGNORE the massacre that set off the war, and ramp up their antisemitism.

The Jewish American Vote will double for Trump over 16 and 20 Election counts

 

[Lisa558]

The Jewish American Vote will double for Trump over 16 and 20 Election counts

And the Left knows it. The question is: can they harvest enough ballots to overcome what will be a massive lead?

 

[Coyote]

The differences are:

1) the Jews aren’t torturing the Muslims to death in the most agonizing ways possible, including putting their babies in ovens, setting their children on fire, sawing off the heads of toddlers, cutting a fetus out of the woman’s belly and then slicing its head off while the mother bleeds out on the floor, and going to a music festival of young people to gun down innocents and raping the girls until they are dead - and then raping them after.

Reality check: neither are the Palestinians. You are taking the horrific behavior of a terrorist group akin to ISIS, and applying it to condone ethnic cleansing of an entire population. What you describe was and is also being done being to civilians, women, girls, boys, babies…in the over 50 year long ongoing Congo war (and it has gotten far less attention from the western world)…no calls for ethnic cleansing of any ethnic groups. In Myanmar, thousands of Rohinga were put in mass concentration camps. Then so called “peaceful” Buddhists attacked the Muslim Rohinga, those who remained in their villages, burned entire families alive locked in their homes, threw babies into bon fires and brutally gang raped women and children. They then “ethnically cleansed” the area and the Rohinga are crowded into horrific refugee camps in Bangladesh, an unpoverished country itself. Both the brutality of war crimes in these conflicts and the forced expulsion of “inconvenient” people who oppose the ruling ethnic groups are nothing new.

So you think ethnic cleansing is a great idea for getting rid of a troublesome native population? Guess what…it is what US European Americans did to its own native population.

2) The Jews didn’t drive out what YOU call the “native population” until their leaders did the above, and the majority of Palestinians supported the massacre.

Not entirely true.

You quote the results of one poll taken well after Israel’s bombing of Gaza and a death toll of thousands including entire families and children. That aspect is (also the results of a poll), most Palestinians do not believe Hamas actually committed those atrocities (kind of like our Maganuts refuse to believe J6). This indicates one of many problems: very little real information is share about each other among Palestinians and Israeli’s and that fosters even more hate and dehumanization of the other. Makes it easier for groups like Hamas to grow and retain control.

I’ve asked you this before and I’ll ask it again: how would you expect Palestinians to feel after more than 26,000 people dead, over 80% displaced, most of Gaza reduced to uninhabitable rubble, food and water cut off and the voices in the Israel’s ruling rightwing coalition calling for forced expulsions from their homeland cynically disguised as “humanitarian“ policies?

If how you can’t put yourselves in their shoes…well, how do you think Israeli’s feel about Palestinians after the horrors Hamas inflicted on Oct 7, and continue to inflict on the hostages they hold? Do think there is any “love” for them?

How do we bridge this gap? The conflict seems existential to both.

The Palestinians are such uncivilized, hateful people that even other Arab countries don’t want them. Why should Israel be stuck living next to a population that wants her eliminated and has threatened to keep killing Jews until they’re all dead?

You’re on the wrong side of this.

There is no right side when both sides want to eliminate an entire population.

 

[Lisa558]

Reality check: neither are the Palestinians. You are taking the horrific behavior of a terrorist group akin to ISIS, and applying it to condone ethnic cleansing of an entire population. What you describe was and is also being done being to civilians, women, girls, boys, babies…in the over 50 year long ongoing Congo war (and it has gotten far less attention from the western world)…no calls for ethnic cleansing of any ethnic groups. In Myanmar, thousands of Rohinga were put in mass concentration camps. Then so called “peaceful” Buddhists attacked the Muslim Rohinga, those who remained in their villages, burned entire families alive locked in their homes, threw babies into bon fires and brutally gang raped women and children. They then “ethnically cleansed” the area and the Rohinga are crowded into horrific refugee camps in Bangladesh, an unpoverished country itself. Both the brutality of war crimes in these conflicts and the forced expulsion of “inconvenient” people who oppose the ruling ethnic groups are nothing new.

So you think ethnic cleansing is a great idea for getting rid of a troublesome native population? Guess what…it is what US European Americans did to its own native population.





Not entirely true.

You quote the results of one poll taken well after Israel’s bombing of Gaza and a death toll of thousands including entire families and children. That aspect is (also the results of a poll), most Palestinians do not believe Hamas actually committed those atrocities (kind of like our Maganuts refuse to believe J6). This indicates one of many problems: very little real information is share about each other among Palestinians and Israeli’s and that fosters even more hate and dehumanization of the other. Makes it easier for groups like Hamas to grow and retain control.

I’ve asked you this before and I’ll ask it again: how would you expect Palestinians to feel after more than 26,000 people dead, over 80% displaced, most of Gaza reduced to uninhabitable rubble, food and water cut off and the voices in the Israel’s ruling rightwing coalition calling for forced expulsions from their homeland cynically disguised as “humanitarian“ policies?

If how you can’t put yourselves in their shoes…well, how do you think Israeli’s feel about Palestinians after the horrors Hamas inflicted on Oct 7, and continue to inflict on the hostages they hold? Do think there is any “love” for them?

How do we bridge this gap? The conflict seems existential to both.


There is no right side when both sides want to eliminate an entire population.

I stopped with your first sentence: “Neither are the Palestinians.” The fact is that while they didn’t actually set the children on fire, the MAJORITY of them support the terrorist massacre.

Can’t have people who support a genocidal massacre living next door. They had chances before, but after October 7, they gotta go.

Problem is, nobody wants these uncivilized and hate-filled people.

And as far as putting myself in Palestinians’ shoes, why should I? These Jew-haters have been taught to want to kill Jews from early childhood, and now we have them marching on college campuses calling for the genocide of Jews.

Why don’t you ask pro-Palestinians to put themselves in the Israelis’ shoes? Thousands of innocent Jews have witnessed the torture of their children, parents, and siblings….and hundreds more are tortured not knowing if their hostage relatives are being raped to death, starved to death, or already dead?

You ALWAYS take up the side of the Muslim savages. Why aren’t you clamoring for the return of the hostages? Do you know Israel offered an extended cease-fire for a return of all hostages (or their bodies) but the Muslim barbarians turned it down??

 

[Lisa558]

And P.S. Yes, there IS a right side, but you aren’t able to see it. Israel was letting these Jew- haters live in peace, having vacated GAZA many years ago, but the Palestinians broke the cease-fire and conducted the terrorist massacre.

NOW they got to go. They blew multiple chances, and what HAMAS did on October 7th was so subhuman that neither the terrorists or their supporters should remain in the disupted territories.

 

[fncceo]

There is no right side when both sides want to eliminate an entire population.

Then of course, there is a right side here.

When Palestinians, and their willing enablers, scream, "From The River to the Sea" they mean for the region from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean (modern day Israel ) free of Jews. This is the Hamas Charter, it is well known.

What Israel is asking for is a cessation of attacks on Jewish civilians. To accomplish this, Hamas MUST be removed from power in Gaza. If the allegedly peace loving Palestinians won't do it, the Israelis will.

Before people irresponsibly throw around invectives such as "genocide" and "ethnic cleansing" (and then weasely attempt to walk them back and say "well at least not yet") they should note that for the past 70 years, a quarter of Israel's citizens are ethnic Arabs living in peace and enjoying full Israeli citizenship .

When Gaza became autonomous under the PLO over a decade ago the first act of the new regime was to expel, under threat of death, any Jew in Gaza, to destroy the previously Jewish built farms gifted to them by Israel and immediately begin shooting rockets into Israel.

Israel has demonstrated it's on the right side by it's willingness to love side-by-side with peaceful Arabs.

Palestinians (and their Hamas and PLO leadership) have quite loudly demonstrated their support of the wrong side by publicly and overtly calling for the genocide of Jews.

 

[rylah]

Then of course, there is a right side here.

When Palestinians, and their willing enablers, scream, "From The River to the Sea" they mean for the region from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean (modern day Israel ) free of Jews. This is the Hamas Charter, it is well known.

What Israel is asking for is a cessation of attacks on Jewish civilians. To accomplish this, Hamas MUST be removed from power in Gaza. If the allegedly peace loving Palestinians won't do it, the Israelis will.

Before people irresponsibly throw around invectives such as "genocide" and "ethnic cleansing" (and then weasely attempt to walk them back and say "well at least not yet") they should note that for the past 70 years, a quarter of Israel's citizens are ethnic Arabs living in peace and enjoying full Israeli citizenship .

When Gaza became autonomous under the PLO over a decade ago the first act of the new regime was to expel, under threat of death, any Jew in Gaza, to destroy the previously Jewish built farms gifted to them by Israel and immediately begin shooting rockets into Israel.

Israel has demonstrated it's on the right side by it's willingness to love side-by-side with peaceful Arabs.

Palestinians (and their Hamas and PLO leadership) have quite loudly demonstrated their support of the wrong side by publicly and overtly calling for the genocide of Jews.

From the river to the...Black Sea?

The mistake is to assume that brainmush appealing to Islamism, knows what they're talking about, or even allowed to express any opinion or original thought, the long term
goal of "Free Palestine" is global Islamist missionary brainwashing.

Islamism appeals mainly to the poorly educated.

 

[rylah]

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

The name 'Novah' is a popular suggestion.

I personally, like the name 'Oz,
which, a word for courage
and valor in Hebrew

Samson, in Memory of His Heroic Death There

 

[Lisa558]

Samson, in Memory of His Heroic Death There

I’ll be visiting the Samson Sea Resort one day.

Has a nice ring to it, don’t you think?

 

[the watcher]

After the non Jews are expelled and the US has rebuilt it to Israel specs, installed security barriers, and the infidels are established, I think it should be called New New York and given 4 US Senators and 12 US Representatives, and at least 1 supreme court judge. The UN should be headquartered there, and probably the Bilderbergers should move there. This, of course extends to the West Bank, which will be renamed Bidentopia, and will be the staging area for the purification of Jordan, Syria, Iraq, and Iran. This will signal the end of Phase 1.

 

[rylah]

After the non Jews are expelled and the US has rebuilt it to Israel specs, installed security barriers, and the infidels are established, I think it should be called New New York and given 4 US Senators and 12 US Representatives, and at least 1 supreme court judge. The UN should be headquartered there, and probably the Bilderbergers should move there. This, of course extends to the West Bank, which will be renamed Bidentopia, and will be the staging area for the purification of Jordan, Syria, Iraq, and Iran. This will signal the end of Phase 1.

In the meantime the current US admin thinks it can strangle Israel to do its bid for the elections by accepting defeat. Not going to work, because Israel is a country with
a fuse too short, and stakes too high, to push to much desperate situations.

Which is exactly why it's better to let Israel take over Gaza.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

I’ll be visiting the Samson Sea Resort one day.

Has a nice ring to it, don’t you think?

Frankly, I Prefer to See Delilah Sport

 

[FDR_Reagan]

The name 'Novah' is a popular suggestion.

I personally, like the name 'Oz,
which, a word for courage
and valor in Hebrew

Ex death cult regime

 

[Sixties Fan]

Irony. When people who themselves are descendents of an ethnic group forcibly expelled multiple times now want to forceably expel another ethnic group so they can move in and take over the relestate. Now, to be fair, that view is mainly coming out of Israel’s rabid religious right faction.

To be fair, from 1920 to 1948 it was not the Jews expelling Arabs from Gaza, Hebron, Judea, Samaria, TransJordan and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem.

It was the other way around.

And in 2005 the Israeli government forcibly expelled the reestablished Jewish population in Gaza, and look at what Israel got in return.

There is nothing concrete at the moment, only wishful thinking and planning. But one must acknowledge that possibly....returning the land the Jews lost in Gaza would be fair, actually more than fair.

AND....needless to say, peaceful Arabs in Gaza would rather be treated well by Israel rather than be famished, shot at, tortured, etc by any other Arab leadership who could ever possible take over and run Gaza.

Many people in Gaza are leaving, or they are against Hamas and the other terror groups. They now see the difference between what they had in Gaza, mostly Hamas people living in luxury while they would be offered to die for Gaza and "Palestine" by a vicious education full of lies and incitement to kill Jews and die for 72 virgins.


Time to let those people, who for no fault of their own - but the fault of leaders who since 1920, to live a normal life, with a normal education, and build Gaza to a possible Emirate with tourism and exports more than they were having before 10/7.

Let the war end. Let the suggestions and decisions be made. Nothing is going to happen just like that and it will not be by taking the rights of the people of Gaza which were already taken by Hamas from 2007 to this day.

Israel wants peace and security. Gaza will have to offer peace and security to Israel. There is no other choice.


Patience is what is required.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Actually Lisa, if you READ my post, I did not say they were committing genocide, NOR are the Palestinians so give it a rest. BUT the conditions are there for genocide to occur if we don’t start looking for a political solution.

Well Shusha, I have stated that HAMAS committed war crimes (crimes against humanity) previously, is it a requirement that it be endlessly repeated? I have stated Hamas is a terrorist organization and needs to be eradicated. Again, how many times do I need to repeat it?

How about YOU? Any calls for accountability on the part of Israel …any? So far it looks like “anything goes” and that justifies anything Israel does (and any disagreement is antisemitic). It sure looks like it.

No, the conditions are not there for genocide.

That word, the G word, has been thrown around since Israel started its operation against Hamas.


The only ones Israel targets are Hamas and Islamic Jihad fighters, and any other terror group in Gaza. Nobody else.

You respond based on what you are reading based on the endless use of the G word.

It is not happening in Gaza, it is NOT going to happen in Gaza, NOT from the Israeli side.

It is not "anything goes" from Israel. Targeting Hamas is different from what Hamas and IJ have been doing which is targeting anywhere and anyone in Israel with their rockets.

Please, do stop saying something which has no truth to it.

Are you a better expert on how the IDF has been operating in Gaza than this expert? Or anyone who contradicts your beliefs is not to be trusted?
Think about it.
------------------
As someone who has served two tours in Iraq and studied urban warfare for over a decade,” Spencer explained, “Israel has taken precautionary measures even the United States did not do during its recent wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.”

He wrote: “One of the best ways to prevent civilian casualties in urban warfare is to provide warning and evacuate urban areas before the full combined air and ground attack commences. This tactic is unpopular for obvious reasons: It alerts the enemy defender and provides them the military advantage to prepare for the attack. The United States did not do this ahead of its initial invasion of Iraq in 2003, which involved major urban battles to include in Baghdad. It did not do this before its April 2004 Battle of Fallujah (though it did send civilian warnings before the Second Battle of Fallujah six months later).”

“By contrast,” Spencer continues, “Israel provided days and then weeks of warnings, as well as time for civilians to evacuate multiple cities in northern Gaza before starting the main air-ground attack of urban areas. The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) employed their practice of calling and texting ahead of an air strike as well as roof-knocking, where they drop small munitions on the roof of a building notifying everyone to evacuate the building before a strike.”

Israel’s use of hundreds of thousands of leaflets, almost 20,000 cell phone calls, 65,000 texts, and 6,000,000 voicemails to civilians, along with alerting civilians where its ground operations would be on a day-to-day basis, is also unprecedented, says Spencer. Not to mention pausing fighting for four hours “over multiple consecutive days” to allow civilians to leave war zones.

Israel may have needed to take such unprecedented measures because the conditions in which they are fighting are also unprecedented, according to analysts. Gaza is a small piece of land — only 25 miles long and, at its widest point, 7.5 miles wide — and extremely densely populated. To make matters more difficult, there are between 350 and 450 miles of tunnels under the strip, which is only 141 square miles, meaning almost the entire territory has Hamas infrastructure under it.

On this point, Spencer writes, “No military in modern history has faced over 30,000 urban defenders in more than seven cities using human shields and hiding in hundreds of miles of underground networks purposely built under civilian sites, while holding hundreds of hostages.”

Protecting civilians in such an environment is particularly challenging, which is likely one of the reasons Israel took the measures they have.

West Point Urban Warfare Expert: IDF ‘Implemented More Measures to Prevent Civilian Casualties Than Any Other Military in History’ - Algemeiner.com

The chair of urban warfare studies at West Point’s Modern Warfare Institute released an op-ed on Wednesday arguing that, during Israel’s war on Hamas, the country “has implemented more measures to prevent civilian casualties than any other military in history.” John Spencer, who served in the...

www.algemeiner.com