Iraq: Greatest blunder in the history of American foreign policy

[crussmith2]

Of course the Bush apologists might claim that we all thought Saddam had WMD. but that is no excuse for a war of aggression. Pakistan Definitely has WMD - that would not excuse China annexing the country or even an invasion by India. Moreover the intelligence community KNEW that the chemical warfare capability that a Republican administration GAVE to Iraq was rendered useless by time - over time the chemicals became inert and the plants that were given Iraq to produce them had been destroyed by bombing so they had no useful chemical weapons. That would be a fact only scientists would be able testaments to at the time the drumbeats for the Iraq war drowned out all reason. But members of Congress knew the once fearful chemical weapons capability repoublicans gave Saddam were 'useless goo' after 5 years
War on Truth: Everything You Ever Wanted to Know about the Invasion of Iraq ... - Neil Mackay - Google Books
It's a good thing that Iraq's President was removed from office. If the President had any guts he would simply have assassinated him instead of committing the greatest strategic blunder in US history by a war of aggression that killed thousands of american and tens of thousands of Iraqi's. That was a bit like killing a snalke on the deck of a boat with a cannon.
Iraq: The Biggest Mistake In American Military History - Forbes

 

[velvtacheeze]

Of course the Bush apologists might claim that we all thought Saddam had WMD. but that is no excuse for a war of aggression. Pakistan Definitely has WMD - that would not excuse China annexing the country or even an invasion by India. Moreover the intelligence community KNEW that the chemical warfare capability that a Republican administration GAVE to Iraq was rendered useless by time - over time the chemicals became inert and the plants that were given Iraq to produce them had been destroyed by bombing so they had no useful chemical weapons. That would be a fact only scientists would be able testaments to at the time the drumbeats for the Iraq war drowned out all reason. But members of Congress knew the once fearful chemical weapons capability repoublicans gave Saddam were 'useless goo' after 5 years
War on Truth: Everything You Ever Wanted to Know about the Invasion of Iraq ... - Neil Mackay - Google Books
It's a good thing that Iraq's President was removed from office. If the President had any guts he would simply have assassinated him instead of committing the greatest strategic blunder in US history by a war of aggression that killed thousands of american and tens of thousands of Iraqi's. That was a bit like killing a snalke on the deck of a boat with a cannon.
Iraq: The Biggest Mistake In American Military History - Forbes

Two Presidential elections in a row, and the Right still can't bring themselves to admit that the Iraq War was a mistake, and that most Americans think it was a mistake and blame the GOP for it.

The right in this country does not learn from their mistakes.

 

[jwoodie]

Viet Nam 55,000 dead.

 

[crussmith2]

One day they will stop regurgitating the same baseless excuses for their huge blunder. But it might take another 10 years before they disown Bush as they have disowned Nixon.

 

[rdean]

Iraq wasn't a blunder. Republicans knew exactly what they were doing. It was a failure, not a blunder.

Blunder:

1. a gross, stupid, or careless mistake.
2. to move or act clumsily, stupidly, or seemingly without guidance
3. to make a mistake, esp. through carelessness, stupidity, or confusion.

They knew what they were doing. They played America like virtuoso's. There was no confusion. The country was "guided".

 

[Mr Natural]

Every post WWII military adventure has been a blunder.

 

[healthmyths]

Blunder would have been allowing 100,000 children to die every year from starvation because a single dictator blocked food from being sent to his country!

"Some persons, such as Walter Russell Mead, accepted a large estimate of casualties due to sanctions, but argued that invading Iraq was better than continuing the sanctions regime, since

"Each year of containment is a new Gulf War."
Former British Prime Minister Tony Blair, in his testimony to the Chilcot Inquiry, also argued that ending sanctions was one benefit of the war."

On May 12, 1996, Madeleine Albright (then U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations)
appeared on a 60 Minutes segment in which Lesley Stahl asked her
"We have heard that half a million children have died.
I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know,
is the price worth it?" and Albright replied "we think the price is worth it."
Albright wrote later that Saddam Hussein, not the sanctions, was to blame. She criticized Stahl's segment as "amount[ing] to Iraqi propaganda"; said that her question was a loaded question; wrote "I had fallen into a trap and said something I did not mean"; and regretted coming "across as cold-blooded and cruel". The segment won an Emmy Award.Albright's "non-denial" was taken by sanctions opponents as confirmation of a high number of sanctions related casualties.

Sanctions against Iraq - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


ne can't know the exact numbers. 500,000 was the widely reported figure even 2 years ago. Dennis Halliday, the just resigned United Nations Humanitarian Coordinator said "we are losing 6,000 to 7,000 children a month, dying every month, as a consequence of the sanctions (New York Times 1/3/99). The Washington Post according to a recent Pat Buchanan column reports a minimum of 250,000. John McLaughlin on NBC news reported up to 700,000, based on the earlier number + current monthly totals. And that was before the last American bombing which included the refinery in the South with provided gasoline and lubricants for local industry which means fewer jobs. One shouldn't forget in this context Washington's bombing of the main antibiotics factory in the famine raged Sudan. We have no numbers on the new numbers of children dying there.

UPDATE --Professor Thomas Nagy of the George Washington University recently published a study of documents released from the Defense Intelligence Agency, describing the intentional destruction of Iraq's water, sanitation, and irrigation with the full knowledge that it would cause catastrophic death and disease among civilians. Only columnist Charley Reese reported on it after it was first published in England's SUNDAY HERALD. In fairness to the American public, the matter has never received attention of the mass media (although Leslie Stahl on 60 MINUTES did ask former Secretary of State Albright if the deaths were worth while to which the Secretary replied, "Yes." In American neo-conservative publications the news was almost totally suppressed. Also it was not the stated American intention originally to then blockade Iraq for 10 years to prevent the import of reconstruction supplies. That policy just evolved over the period.
Disastrous Situation of Children in Iraq

Remember all you Bush BASHERs... THE UN that you love and worship PUT these sanctions in place!
Clinton supported them as did most everyone but it was ONE person that could have prevented it!
Why are YOU idiots so in love with a man who murdered his OWN people!
Who let millons of people including children STARVE because of him!

And you say the USA blundered in saving this starvation??

Maybe you should ask those kids that are adults today where they would be today if Saddam were still in power!

 

[crussmith2]

If lethal results are the criteria then Vietnam wins hands down. But if fools errands are the criteria then Iraq wins. at the least it would have been possible for Vietnam to be reunited as a non-Communist country as has been Germany. Their is a common culture and the Vietnamese think of themselves as one very ancient nation. But Iraqi's are more divided by religion and ethnicity than they were ever united. Making Sunni, Shia and Christian elements of the Arabic, Kurdish, Turkman and Assyrian elements of the less than a century old Iraq 'nation' make nice without using an iron fist is likely never going to happen.

 

[crussmith2]

so shock and awe was a humanitarian gesture? What sort of idiot would buy that crock?!
The cure for Saddam should have been one bullet to the base of one skull. Not this 'humanitarian' gesture:
https://www.google.com/search?q=sho...vICgCg&sqi=2&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1152&bih=746

 

[jwoodie]

Iraq wasn't a blunder. Republicans knew exactly what they were doing. It was a failure, not a blunder.

Blunder:

1. a gross, stupid, or careless mistake.
2. to move or act clumsily, stupidly, or seemingly without guidance
3. to make a mistake, esp. through carelessness, stupidity, or confusion.

They knew what they were doing. They played America like virtuoso's. There was no confusion. The country was "guided".

Brilliant analysis Guided towards what? The real blunder was snatching defeat from the jaws of victory by failing to get a Status of Forces Agreement in order to counter Iran's growing military threat to the region.

 

[Dorkazoid_Jones]

Biggest foreign policy blunder is making a mockery of our immigration policy by rewarding millions of illegals in this country with amnesty while people around the world who follow our laws may never get in. Of course liberals who bleat on and on about voter nullification with an ID card at the booth, never admit the unprecedented voter nullifiation they perpetrate by bringing in millions of Democrats who nullify Republicans who are already citizens. This is the way statists think -- never mind morality do things by any means necessary...

 

[crussmith2]

Illegal gardening and cut rate roofing is our worst problem.
Well - for exploited gardeners and roofers it probably is the worst problem.
Somehow I think the Republic will likely survive the latest wave of immigrants - but at least they have some other loser position to fall back on!
Your great grandma might have been an illegal for all I know under our current rules. So get out already and go home ya anchor grandkid!

 

[Dugdale_Jukes]

"Blunder would have been allowing 100,000 children to die every year from starvation because a single dictator blocked food from being sent to his country!" - healthmyth

(((What happened to the quote thing? It doesn't work right any more. )))

Bullshit. For every child Hussein damaged the Chinese damage dozens. Is the filthy fucking US govt supposed to invade another Oriental nation continuing thousands of years of Oriental tradition?

You've posted some stuff that adds up. Above is about as degenerate a pile of horseshit as I've ever read by you. It saddens me.

Saddam Hussein kept Iran in check for free as far as US taxpayers were concerned. A dimwit inheritor propelled by a corporate criminal burned US credibility, trillions in cash and a generation of jobs in eight years and invading Iraq was their lowest moment.

In fact the invasion of Iraq by the US government was the lowest point in the history of US foreign policy. Nothing else comes close.

 

[Wyatt earp]

It wasnt a blunder. Bush jr got want he wanted by killing sadam. Anyone who watched Powells presentation at the U.N. knew it was a ruse.

 

[healthmyths]

so shock and awe was a humanitarian gesture? What sort of idiot would buy that crock?!
The cure for Saddam should have been one bullet to the base of one skull. Not this 'humanitarian' gesture:
https://www.google.com/search?q=sho...vICgCg&sqi=2&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1152&bih=746

But what about U.S. Executive Order 12333?

Simple idiots like you don't think very much about the laws that prohibit it.
Much less the gross retributions the world especially the Muslim would heap on the USA if that happened!
But simple idiots like YOU had NO problem in encouraging the terrorists did you when you supported statements like these:
So when these comments were posted and published.. will any of you be honest enough to admit, the comments certainly did not make US troops happy
and DEFINITELY did as the Harvard study stated: "emboldenment".. do more killings of troops over 6 more years!

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid(D) "The war is lost, the surge is not accomplishing anything " 40,800 Google results

U.S. Rep. John Murtha(D) "Our troops killed innocent civilians in cold blood,”
39,600 Google results
Senator Kerry (D) "American soldiers going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children." 92,500 Google results

Durbin (D) "must have been done by Nazis, Soviets"--action of Americans in the treatment of their prisoners. 127,000 Google results
Senator Obama said "troops are air-raiding villages and killing civilians," 94,300 Google results

So Iraq deaths and cost continued because the above remarks HELPED ONLY the terrorists and they were emboldened to prolong!

Executive Order 12333states:
"No person employed by or acting on behalf of the United States shall engage in, or conspire to engage in, assassination."
Part 2.11 of this executive order reiterates a proscription on US intelligence agencies sponsoring or carrying out an assassination.
It reads:
No person employed by or acting on behalf of the United States Government shall engage in, or conspire to engage in, assassination.
Previously, EO 11905 (Gerald Ford) had banned political assassinations and EO 12036 (Jimmy Carter) had further banned indirect U.S. involvement in assassinations.[6] As early as 1998, this proscription against assassination was reinterpreted, and relaxed, for targets who are classified by the United States as connected to terrorism.

Executive Order 12333 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So because the US is prohibited by EO 12333 and because millions of kids were going to starve.. YOU have a problem with the US enforcing an AGREEMENT i.e. 1991 CEASE FIRE that Saddam broke?
YOU have a problem ENFORCING the dozens of UN resolutions including the SANCTIONS known as for OIL for Food that Saddam
ignored?

What a great set of values idiots like you profess!
The Liberation of Iraq was over in 6 weeks!!!
But because YOU , the MSM and democrats demagogued in FAVOR of the terrorists prolonging the conflict it went on and the murder of 3,000 more troops, 100,000 Iraqis and $600 billion for 6 years is ON YOUR HEAD and the above TRAITORS that encouraged the terrorists!

 

[Mad Scientist]

Viet Nam 55,000 dead.

^Came in here to post this.^

 

[healthmyths]

"Blunder would have been allowing 100,000 children to die every year from starvation because a single dictator blocked food from being sent to his country!" - healthmyth

(((What happened to the quote thing? It doesn't work right any more. )))

Bullshit. For every child Hussein damaged the Chinese damage dozens. Is the filthy fucking US govt supposed to invade another Oriental nation continuing thousands of years of Oriental tradition?

You've posted some stuff that adds up. Above is about as degenerate a pile of horseshit as I've ever read by you. It saddens me.

Saddam Hussein kept Iran in check for free as far as US taxpayers were concerned. A dimwit inheritor propelled by a corporate criminal burned US credibility, trillions in cash and a generation of jobs in eight years and invading Iraq was their lowest moment.

In fact the invasion of Iraq by the US government was the lowest point in the history of US foreign policy. Nothing else comes close.

You talking about this??
"Some persons, such as Walter Russell Mead, accepted a large estimate of casualties due to sanctions, but argued that invading Iraq was better than continuing the sanctions regime, since "Each year of containment is a new Gulf War." Former British Prime Minister Tony Blair, in his testimony to the Chilcot Inquiry, also argued that ending sanctions was one benefit of the war."

How many people starved because of ONE MAN.. SADDAM??? NOT the USA fault. Not the UN fault! Saddam!
Estimates of excess deaths of children during the sanctions range from a minimum of 100,000 to over 500,000 children.

The overall literacy rate in Iraq had been 78% in 1977 and 87% for adult women by 1985, but declined rapidly since then.[citation needed] Between 1990 and 1998, over one fifth of Iraqi children stopped enrolling in school, consequently increasing the number of non-literates and losing all the gains made in the previous decade. The 1990s also saw a dramatic increase in child labor, from a virtually non-existent level in the 1980s.[citation needed] The per capita income in Iraq dropped from $3510 in 1989 to $450 in 1996, heavily influenced by the rapid devaluation of the Iraqi dinar.[27]

Sanctions against Iraq - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Dugdale_Jukes]

"Blunder would have been allowing 100,000 children to die every year from starvation because a single dictator blocked food from being sent to his country!" - healthmyth

(((What happened to the quote thing? It doesn't work right any more. )))

Bullshit. For every child Hussein damaged the Chinese damage dozens. Is the filthy fucking US govt supposed to invade another Oriental nation continuing thousands of years of Oriental tradition?

You've posted some stuff that adds up. Above is about as degenerate a pile of horseshit as I've ever read by you. It saddens me.

Saddam Hussein kept Iran in check for free as far as US taxpayers were concerned. A dimwit inheritor propelled by a corporate criminal burned US credibility, trillions in cash and a generation of jobs in eight years and invading Iraq was their lowest moment.

In fact the invasion of Iraq by the US government was the lowest point in the history of US foreign policy. Nothing else comes close.

You talking about this??
"Some persons, such as Walter Russell Mead, accepted a large estimate of casualties due to sanctions, but argued that invading Iraq was better than continuing the sanctions regime, since "Each year of containment is a new Gulf War." Former British Prime Minister Tony Blair, in his testimony to the Chilcot Inquiry, also argued that ending sanctions was one benefit of the war."
Sanctions against Iraq - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How many people starved because of ONE MAN.. SADDAM??? NOT the USA fault. Not the UN fault! Saddam!
Estimates of excess deaths of children during the sanctions range from a minimum of 100,000 to over 500,000 children.
Sanctions against Iraq - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The overall literacy rate in Iraq had been 78% in 1977 and 87% for adult women by 1985, but declined rapidly since then.[citation needed] Between 1990 and 1998, over one fifth of Iraqi children stopped enrolling in school, consequently increasing the number of non-literates and losing all the gains made in the previous decade. The 1990s also saw a dramatic increase in child labor, from a virtually non-existent level in the 1980s.[citation needed] The per capita income in Iraq dropped from $3510 in 1989 to $450 in 1996, heavily influenced by the rapid devaluation of the Iraqi dinar.[27]

Sanctions against Iraq - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this.

Enough American blood and treasure has been spent saving foreigners from themselves. If there is something that means less to me than the quality of life outside the US, it isn't coming to mind.

 

[healthmyths]

"Blunder would have been allowing 100,000 children to die every year from starvation because a single dictator blocked food from being sent to his country!" - healthmyth

(((What happened to the quote thing? It doesn't work right any more. )))

Bullshit. For every child Hussein damaged the Chinese damage dozens. Is the filthy fucking US govt supposed to invade another Oriental nation continuing thousands of years of Oriental tradition?

You've posted some stuff that adds up. Above is about as degenerate a pile of horseshit as I've ever read by you. It saddens me.

Saddam Hussein kept Iran in check for free as far as US taxpayers were concerned. A dimwit inheritor propelled by a corporate criminal burned US credibility, trillions in cash and a generation of jobs in eight years and invading Iraq was their lowest moment.

In fact the invasion of Iraq by the US government was the lowest point in the history of US foreign policy. Nothing else comes close.

You talking about this??
"Some persons, such as Walter Russell Mead, accepted a large estimate of casualties due to sanctions, but argued that invading Iraq was better than continuing the sanctions regime, since "Each year of containment is a new Gulf War." Former British Prime Minister Tony Blair, in his testimony to the Chilcot Inquiry, also argued that ending sanctions was one benefit of the war."
Sanctions against Iraq - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How many people starved because of ONE MAN.. SADDAM??? NOT the USA fault. Not the UN fault! Saddam!
Estimates of excess deaths of children during the sanctions range from a minimum of 100,000 to over 500,000 children.
Sanctions against Iraq - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The overall literacy rate in Iraq had been 78% in 1977 and 87% for adult women by 1985, but declined rapidly since then.[citation needed] Between 1990 and 1998, over one fifth of Iraqi children stopped enrolling in school, consequently increasing the number of non-literates and losing all the gains made in the previous decade. The 1990s also saw a dramatic increase in child labor, from a virtually non-existent level in the 1980s.[citation needed] The per capita income in Iraq dropped from $3510 in 1989 to $450 in 1996, heavily influenced by the rapid devaluation of the Iraqi dinar.[27]

Sanctions against Iraq - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this.

Enough American blood and treasure has been spent saving foreigners from themselves. If there is something that means less to me than the quality of life outside the US, it isn't coming to mind.

Well see the problem is you aren't thinking about families.
The USA more then ANY other country in the world has had MORE people come from different lands.. immigrants!
These immigrants come to the USA for opportunities their homeland didn't or couldn't provide.
YET many of these immigrants ..earlier Europeans had families in Europe..hence we help our families..relatives in
Europe WWI/WWII...etc.
Then as the USA became a world power we signed treaties.. NATO,SEATO,etc. and all of these stipulate we come
to their aid!
So do you advocate turning our backs on our relatives? Many Asians are now in the USA with relatives in China,etc..
Do you advocate our reneging on all the treaties we signed?

Are you in favor of being known as we are NOW due to Obama a country that can no longer be trusted that when we say we are going to do something,
or as Bush/Clinton..
"..give President authority to use force..to disarm Saddam because an arsenal of WMDs..threat our security"..Kerry 2002
"..Unmistakable evidence Saddam developing nuclear weapons next 5 years.."Rockefeller 2002
"Violated over 11 years every UN resolution demanding disarming WMDs.."Waxman 2002
"He's given aid,comfort & sanctuary to al Qaeda members..and keep developing WMDs"..Hillary 2002
"Compelling evidence Saddam has WMDs production storage capacity.." Graham 2002
"Without a question, we need to disarm Saddam. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime .... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction .... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real ...."Kerry , Jan. 23. 2003.
“I am absolutely convinced that there are weapons…I saw evidence back in 1998 when we would see the inspectors being barred from gaining entry into a warehouse for three hours with trucks rolling up and then moving those trucks out.” — Clinton’s Secretary of Defense William Cohen in April of 2003
“I share the administration’s goals in dealing with Iraq and its weapons of mass destruction.” — Dick Gephardt in September of 2002

 

[aaronleland]

I think Vietnam was an even greater blunder. The biggest problem with Vietnam was that it set a precedent for future American military engagements, which allowed blunders like our invasion of Iraq to take place.