Irreducible Complexity: another Nail in Evolution's Coffin

[KissMy]

To deny evolution is to say God lies to us.

That is the stupidest phrase ever.

Are match manufacturers lying to you because they treat match sticks with flame retardant chemicals?

Just because you don't understand why something is designed the way it is, does not mean you are being lied to.

 

[konradv]

I wonder how many years of evolution it would take for a working mousetrap to spontaneously appear.

Nothing appears spontaneously, according to evolutionary theory, that's creationism. Life and its evolution comes about due to the Laws of Chemistry and Physics. If you're looking for a designer, that's where he lives. He set the ball in motion(let there be light), but from that point onward, it's been evolution tweaked by the forces of nature.

 

[konradv]

To deny evolution is to say God lies to us.

That is the stupidest phrase ever.

Are match manufacturers lying to you because they treat match sticks with flame retardant chemicals?

Just because you don't understand why something is the designed the way it is does not mean you are being lied to.

Tut, tut, you've edited my statement. Isn't that a violation of the board TOS? What about my follow-up statement? How do you explain the fossil record, if you discount evolution?

 

[JBeukema]

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Blind-Watchmaker-Evidence-Evolution-Universe/dp/0393315703]Amazon.com: The Blind Watchmaker: Why the Evidence of Evolution Reveals a Universe without Design (9780393315707): Richard Dawkins: Books[/ame]

 

[JBeukema]

I wonder how many years of evolution it would take for a working mousetrap to spontaneously appear.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdwTwNPyR9w[/ame]

 

[Leweman]

I wonder how many years of evolution it would take for a working mousetrap to spontaneously appear.

Nothing appears spontaneously, according to evolutionary theory, that's creationism. Life and its evolution comes about due to the Laws of Chemistry and Physics. If you're looking for a designer, that's where he lives. He set the ball in motion(let there be light), but from that point onward, it's been evolution tweaked by the forces of nature.

Good point, but no matter what you believe everyone has to come to the conclusion that something came from nothing and if thats possible then damn near anything is possible I guess. Whenever I think about this stuff from either point of view it blows my mind mannnnnn haha.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

Don't expect to change anyone's mind. faith in evolution is just as much a religious belief as faith in intelligent creation.

still false. one has reproducible evidence. the other has no evidence.

You still have to choose to believe the data people came up with as true.

That is faith.

Well, no. If you don't believe the genetic data described in the massive amount of research on this very topic, you are more than welcome to reproduce any of the experiments, as their methods are given in full detail, to find the evidence for yourself. This is why it's called REPRODUCIBLE. You can pluck out one of your hairs right now, isolate DNA from the root of it, and find that one of your chromosomes appears just like two ape chromosomes fused together at the ends. Little "faith" is needed with reproducible evidence, as it can be easily re-proven. How would you go about investigating religion? That's right: you can't.

To deny evolution is to say God lies to us.

That is the stupidest phrase ever.

Just because you don't understand why something is the designed the way it is does not mean you are being lied to.

See above regarding one of your chromosomes in every cell appearing just like two ape chromosomes fused together. Go google the term "vestigial structure" or "junk dna" or "silent mutation". There are tons of things which are NOT designed well, and no longer serve a purpose.

 

[Leweman]

I don't get why, if everything came from the same basic life form, it didn't evolve into the same thing. Why are there different plant, animals, bacteria ... etc. Were somethings lazier than others and just said screw it I ain't evolving? Im sure there is an answer to this. Blows my mind though.

 

[JBeukema]

i don't get why, if everything came from the same basic life form, it didn't evolve into the same thing. Why are there different plant, animals, bacteria ... Etc. Were somethings lazier than others and just said screw it i ain't evolving? Im sure there is an answer to this. Blows my mind though.

42

 

[rdean]

I don't get why, if everything came from the same basic life form, it didn't evolve into the same thing. Why are there different plant, animals, bacteria ... etc. Were somethings lazier than others and just said screw it I ain't evolving? Im sure there is an answer to this. Blows my mind though.

Because Sweden is cold.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

I don't get why, if everything came from the same basic life form, it didn't evolve into the same thing. Why are there different plant, animals, bacteria ... etc. Were somethings lazier than others and just said screw it I ain't evolving? Im sure there is an answer to this. Blows my mind though.

People have the misconception in believing evolution always creates the "best" outcome for an organism, and therefore all organisms would evolve to be the same best thing. That's simply not true. Evolution uses random genetic mutation and picks out the products which allow for the best survival in a non-random way. Keep in mind that what is the best survival advantage is not the same for all organisms, or even the same organisms in different locations. Larger fins, for example, might help a certain fish survive better, but larger hands may not help a kangaroo. Here's another example: Let's say we take some birds all from the same species, and place half in a place where the only food was large nuts, and the other half in a place where the only food was small seeds. You can see where the first group would want big strong beaks to crack nuts, and the second group would want long slender beaks to pick up little seeds easier.

Make sense?

 

[rdean]

I am a very religious person and have alot of faith.

But, belief in evolution would take way, way more faith than even I could come up with!!!

Don't need faith. We have science and our own eyes. To deny evolution is to say God lies to us. What explanation do you have for the fossil record?

Fossils have a dual purpose.

One, God is showing us what animals on other planets look like.

Two, God put bones in the ground so man's best friend would have something to dig up.

 

[rdean]

Don't need faith. We have science and our own eyes. To deny evolution is to say God lies to us. What explanation do you have for the fossil record?

The fossil record doesn't prove evolution.

It just shows that species some species continue and others die out.

Obviously, "magical creation" is an ongoing process. Every so often, God swoops down and "magically creates" another species.

 

[rdean]

we were all black in africa, then in the blink of an eye, as soon as we migrated north of sicily humans all turned white! The when we migrated to asia, we turned yellow! And the red in america (does this make sense to anyone?)

what's your sign????

 

[JBeukema]

we were all black in africa, then in the blink of an eye, as soon as we migrated north of sicily humans all turned white! The when we migrated to asia, we turned yellow! And the red in america (does this make sense to anyone?)

what's your sign????

 

[Leweman]

I don't get why, if everything came from the same basic life form, it didn't evolve into the same thing. Why are there different plant, animals, bacteria ... etc. Were somethings lazier than others and just said screw it I ain't evolving? Im sure there is an answer to this. Blows my mind though.

People have the misconception in believing evolution always creates the "best" outcome for an organism, and therefore all organisms would evolve to be the same best thing. That's simply not true. Evolution uses random genetic mutation and picks out the products which allow for the best survival in a non-random way. Keep in mind that what is the best survival advantage is not the same for all organisms, or even the same organisms in different locations. Larger fins, for example, might help a certain fish survive better, but larger hands may not help a kangaroo. Here's another example: Let's say we take some birds all from the same species, and place half in a place where the only food was large nuts, and the other half in a place where the only food was small seeds. You can see where the first group would want big strong beaks to crack nuts, and the second group would want long slender beaks to pick up little seeds easier.

Make sense?

Yeah that helps at least in terms of multi system organisms. But I still dont get how single cell organisms would have developed into so many different things.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

Yeah that helps at least in terms of multi system organisms. But I still dont get how single cell organisms would have developed into so many different things.

The same basic idea holds true at the microscopic level as well. Organisms are exposed to different environmental pressures. Some bacteria live in more acidic environments, have different food sources available to them, live in different temperatures, interact with natural antibiotics. All of these stresses allow for different survival advantages.

 

[eagleseven]

Yeah that helps at least in terms of multi system organisms. But I still dont get how single cell organisms would have developed into so many different things.

Take, for instance, the bacterial Type-3 Secretion System:

The same proteins are used to construct a tail for swimming, a poison-injection mechanism to induce diarrhea, and an efflux pump used to resist antibiotics. Thus, by shuffling around these common genes through mutation and sexual relations, bacteria can develop into more dangerous, antibiotic resistant, organisms...aka Evolution!

 

[JBeukema]

Eagle, just stop.

Real science is hard. That's why they have religion.

 

[Leweman]

Eagle, just stop.

Real science is hard. That's why they have religion.

So instead of having someone trying to explain it to me I should just take your word for it huh? Thats all you really want. Affirmation not information right. Well there is no point trying to talk to people like that because no matter what they believe they are already wrong. At least I'm trying to see both sides of things.