Irrefutable legal arguments supporting the right of secession

[Redfish]

For those of you who think secession is "illegal". Why didn't Lincoln just file suit against the confederacy? Thats how legal issues are resolved.

this whole thread is just foolish. Secession has nothing to do with legality.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

What evidence is there that Lincoln gave a damn about the slaves?

Lincoln Douglas debates are a good place to start but there is plenty of other examples of his position. There is also the point of view of the South which is also very important.

The Lincoln-Douglass debates prove your claim is wrong. Please post an example that proves Lincoln gave a damn about the slaves.

"This declared indifference, but, as I must think, covert real zeal for the spread of slavery, I cannot but hate. I hate it because of the monstrous injustice of slavery itself. I hate it because it deprives our republican example of its just influence in the world—enables the enemies of free institutions, with plausibility, to taunt us as hypocrites—causes the real friends of freedom to doubt our sincerity, and especially because it forces so many really good men amongst ourselves into an open war with the very fundamental principles of civil liberty—criticizing the Declaration of Independence, and insisting that there is no right principle of action but self-interest."

And yet he promised repeatedly not to abolish slavery, otherwise he would never have been elected. Herr Lincoln Uber Alles was first, last, and foremost a politician who ran for office several times until he found the magic words to win. Like Obama, he lacked even an ounce of geniune character. It's all a light show and suckers like you fall for it every time.

Mr. Saint, you are little man that will not be remembered for even the time it takes for the daises to bloom on your resting place. Lincoln will be remembered for longer than even the US exists.

So was Hitler. And if I killed 600,000 men I'm sure I would be remembered for generations too. Believing fame is some sort of virtue or accolade makes you ignorant beyond belief.

 

[paperview]

"First, no less than seven states had engaged in acts of nullification of the U.S. Constitution long before South Carolina announced its plans to secede on December 20 1960 – Kentucky (1799), Pennsylvania (1809), Georgia (1832), South Carolina (1832), Wisconsin (1854) Massachusetts (1855), and Vermont (1858), According to Professor H Newcomb Morse, “Nullification occurs when people of a state refuse to recognize the validity of an exercise of power by the national government which, in the state’s view, transcends the limited and enumerated delegated powers of the national constitution.” Those instances where national laws have been nullified by Northern states gave credence to the view that the compact forming the Union had already been breached and the Confederate states were morally and legally free to leave."

Refutation #1 - Kentucky in 1799 did not 'nullify' federal law. The reference above is to the Kentucky Resolution of 1779,
which was essentially a protest against the Alien and Sedition Act. You can read it here:

Kentucky Resolution of 1799

Key point in the resolution:

"That although this commonwealth as a party to the federal compact; will bow to the laws of the Union, yet it does at the same time declare, that it will not now, nor ever hereafter, cease to oppose in a constitutional manner, every attempt from what quarter soever offered, to violate that compact...."

And a further look at some of the other examples on that list.. (where we know Nullification has never been upheld...)

Pennsylvania: 1809 --United States v. Peters, 9 [LINK] The Supreme Court rejected the idea of nullification.
[n response, the Governor of Pennsylvania called out the state militia to prevent enforcement of the Supreme Court's judgment. However, the U.S. Marshal summoned a posse, carried out the Supreme Court's order, and arrested the leaders of the state militia. The Pennsylvania legislature passed a resolution declaring the action of the Supreme Court unconstitutional, invoking states' rights, and appealing to the other states for support.Eleven states responded by disapproving Pennsylvania's attempted nullification. No state supported Pennsylvania.The Governor of Pennsylvania made a plea to President James Madison to intervene, but Madison affirmed the authority of the Supreme Court. The Pennsylvania legislature backed down and withdrew the militia. Thus, Pennsylvania's attempt to nullify the federal court judgment failed.

South Carolina - 1832. We know how that worked out. "No other state supported South Carolina. James Madison, author of the Virginia Resolution, also weighed in at this time, stating that the Virginia Resolution should not be interpreted to mean that each state has the right to nullify federal law.[LINK]

Wisconsin, 1854: here, Wisconsin Court held the Fugitive Slave Act unconstitutional. "Accordingly, the Court held that the Wisconsin court did not have the power to nullify a federal statute that had been upheld by the federal courts or to interfere with federal enforcement of that statute.

Ableman v. Booth was the Supreme Court's most thorough examination yet of the theory of nullification. Like the decisions that preceded it, Ableman found that federal law was superior to state law, and that under the Constitution, the final power to determine the constitutionality of federal laws lies in the federal courts, not the states. Ableman found that the Constitution gave the Supreme Court final authority to determine the extent and limits of federal power and that the states therefore do not have the power to nullify federal law.

Vermont 1858: Tried to nullify the Dred Scott decision (making even Free Blacks not citizens - with no rights) Bzzzt. Nope.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Image of what a coward with a firearm can accomplish.

Actually that's the image of a man who failed to escape the cycle of fraternal bloodshed he inflicted on the rest of the country. It's kinda like somebody who burns to death in a forest fire he started. You don't feel sorry for somebody like that.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

He did not promise he stated if he had to save the union by keeping slavery he would because it would be his job . Well guess what didn't have to and freed the slaves. Lincoln was a great man and great president.

Sent from my SM-G386T1 using Tapatalk

Yes, he was. Arguably perhaps our very best president, even.

The pro death Left loves Lincoln.....wishes he killed twice as many.

 

[paperview]

Image of what a coward with a firearm can accomplish.

Actually that's the image of a man who failed to escape the cycle of fraternal bloodshed he inflicted on the rest of the country. It's kinda like somebody who burns to death in a forest fire he started. You don't feel sorry for somebody like that.

You really are quite fucked in the head.

Seriously fucked.

 

[Statistikhengst]

He did not promise he stated if he had to save the union by keeping slavery he would because it would be his job . Well guess what didn't have to and freed the slaves. Lincoln was a great man and great president.

Sent from my SM-G386T1 using Tapatalk

Yes, he was. Arguably perhaps our very best president, even.

The pro death Left loves Lincoln.....wishes he killed twice as many.

Only a truly insane person can believe such rot.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

For those of you who think secession is "illegal". Why didn't Lincoln just file suit against the confederacy? Thats how legal issues are resolved.

this whole thread is just foolish. Secession has nothing to do with legality.

It has nothing to do with 'think,' it is a fact of settled and accepted Constitutional law that 'secession' is un-Constitutional.

Otherwise, your 'question' exhibits the ignorance of the Constitution and its case law common to you and most others on the right.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

He did not promise he stated if he had to save the union by keeping slavery he would because it would be his job . Well guess what didn't have to and freed the slaves. Lincoln was a great man and great president.

Sent from my SM-G386T1 using Tapatalk

Yes, he was. Arguably perhaps our very best president, even.

The pro death Left loves Lincoln.....wishes he killed twice as many.

Only a truly insane person can believe such rot.

Insane or not, I do believe that about you. Lincoln could have killed 6 million and his legacy would be even greater in your eyes.

In my eyes, people who work for peace and work to avoid wars at all costs are truly great.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

For those of you who think secession is "illegal". Why didn't Lincoln just file suit against the confederacy? Thats how legal issues are resolved.

this whole thread is just foolish. Secession has nothing to do with legality.

It has nothing to do with 'think,' it is a fact of settled and accepted Constitutional law that 'secession' is un-Constitutional.

Otherwise, your 'question' exhibits the ignorance of the Constitution and its case law common to you and most others on the right.

I love how you twats think that case law is absolute. The states can abolish the Supreme Court and every decision it ever made if they want to. Seceding states are not subject to Supreme Court decisions.

 

[jillian]

For those of you who think secession is "illegal". Why didn't Lincoln just file suit against the confederacy? Thats how legal issues are resolved.

this whole thread is just foolish. Secession has nothing to do with legality.

It has nothing to do with 'think,' it is a fact of settled and accepted Constitutional law that 'secession' is un-Constitutional.

Otherwise, your 'question' exhibits the ignorance of the Constitution and its case law common to you and most others on the right.

I love how you twats think that case law is absolute. The states can abolish the Supreme Court and every decision it ever made if they want to. Seceding states are not subject to Supreme Court decisions.

i love how braindeadidiots like you pretend that our constitution is supposed to protect your bigotry.

disgusting animals.

for the record, your sig has been reported, loser

 

[paperview]

He did not promise he stated if he had to save the union by keeping slavery he would because it would be his job . Well guess what didn't have to and freed the slaves. Lincoln was a great man and great president.

Sent from my SM-G386T1 using Tapatalk

Yes, he was. Arguably perhaps our very best president, even.

The pro death Left loves Lincoln.....wishes he killed twice as many.

Only a truly insane person can believe such rot.

Insane or not, I do believe that about you. Lincoln could have killed 6 million and his legacy would be even greater in your eyes.

In my eyes, people who work for peace and work to avoid wars at all costs are truly great.

You should be thanking your ever-lovin' stars for Lincoln.

He saved out Union, and made it possible for you to be sitting in one of the greatest and most powerful countries on earth right now, free to bitch and moan like a sad, sorry, ungrateful pissant.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

For those of you who think secession is "illegal". Why didn't Lincoln just file suit against the confederacy? Thats how legal issues are resolved.

this whole thread is just foolish. Secession has nothing to do with legality.

It has nothing to do with 'think,' it is a fact of settled and accepted Constitutional law that 'secession' is un-Constitutional.

Otherwise, your 'question' exhibits the ignorance of the Constitution and its case law common to you and most others on the right.

I love how you twats think that case law is absolute. The states can abolish the Supreme Court and every decision it ever made if they want to. Seceding states are not subject to Supreme Court decisions.

i love how braindeadidiots like you pretend that our constitution is supposed to protect your bigotry.

disgusting animals.

for the record, your sig has been reported, loser

Bigotry has nothing to do with this discussion, so bigots like you aren't going to have a lot to offer on a thread like this. Take your bigotry elsewhere where it's relevant.

 

[NYcarbineer]

For those of you who think secession is "illegal". Why didn't Lincoln just file suit against the confederacy? Thats how legal issues are resolved.

this whole thread is just foolish. Secession has nothing to do with legality.

It has nothing to do with 'think,' it is a fact of settled and accepted Constitutional law that 'secession' is un-Constitutional.

Otherwise, your 'question' exhibits the ignorance of the Constitution and its case law common to you and most others on the right.

I love how you twats think that case law is absolute. The states can abolish the Supreme Court and every decision it ever made if they want to. Seceding states are not subject to Supreme Court decisions.

Really? Can your county secede from your state?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Lincoln Douglas debates are a good place to start but there is plenty of other examples of his position. There is also the point of view of the South which is also very important.

The Lincoln-Douglass debates prove your claim is wrong. Please post an example that proves Lincoln gave a damn about the slaves.

"This declared indifference, but, as I must think, covert real zeal for the spread of slavery, I cannot but hate. I hate it because of the monstrous injustice of slavery itself. I hate it because it deprives our republican example of its just influence in the world—enables the enemies of free institutions, with plausibility, to taunt us as hypocrites—causes the real friends of freedom to doubt our sincerity, and especially because it forces so many really good men amongst ourselves into an open war with the very fundamental principles of civil liberty—criticizing the Declaration of Independence, and insisting that there is no right principle of action but self-interest."

And yet he promised repeatedly not to abolish slavery, otherwise he would never have been elected. Herr Lincoln Uber Alles was first, last, and foremost a politician who ran for office several times until he found the magic words to win. Like Obama, he lacked even an ounce of geniune character. It's all a light show and suckers like you fall for it every time.

Mr. Saint, you are little man that will not be remembered for even the time it takes for the daises to bloom on your resting place. Lincoln will be remembered for longer than even the US exists.

So was Hitler. And if I killed 600,000 men I'm sure I would be remembered for generations too. Believing fame is some sort of virtue or accolade makes you ignorant beyond belief.

If the South didn't want a war they should have stayed in the Union.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Okay so if invading the South was out of bounds, why did Lee invade the North? As you might recall, the decisive battle of the Civil War was fought in Pennsylvania.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

The Lincoln-Douglass debates prove your claim is wrong. Please post an example that proves Lincoln gave a damn about the slaves.

"This declared indifference, but, as I must think, covert real zeal for the spread of slavery, I cannot but hate. I hate it because of the monstrous injustice of slavery itself. I hate it because it deprives our republican example of its just influence in the world—enables the enemies of free institutions, with plausibility, to taunt us as hypocrites—causes the real friends of freedom to doubt our sincerity, and especially because it forces so many really good men amongst ourselves into an open war with the very fundamental principles of civil liberty—criticizing the Declaration of Independence, and insisting that there is no right principle of action but self-interest."

And yet he promised repeatedly not to abolish slavery, otherwise he would never have been elected. Herr Lincoln Uber Alles was first, last, and foremost a politician who ran for office several times until he found the magic words to win. Like Obama, he lacked even an ounce of geniune character. It's all a light show and suckers like you fall for it every time.

Mr. Saint, you are little man that will not be remembered for even the time it takes for the daises to bloom on your resting place. Lincoln will be remembered for longer than even the US exists.

So was Hitler. And if I killed 600,000 men I'm sure I would be remembered for generations too. Believing fame is some sort of virtue or accolade makes you ignorant beyond belief.

If the South didn't want a war they should have stayed in the Union.

If a woman didn't want to be murdered, she should have stayed in an abusive relationship.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Okay so if invading the South was out of bounds, why did Lee invade the North? As you might recall, the decisive battle of the Civil War was fought in Pennsylvania.

That was after the initial invasion, skid mark.

 

[bripat9643]

Image of what a coward with a firearm can accomplish.

Actually that's the image of a man who failed to escape the cycle of fraternal bloodshed he inflicted on the rest of the country. It's kinda like somebody who burns to death in a forest fire he started. You don't feel sorry for somebody like that.

You really are quite fucked in the head.

Seriously fucked.

You're through one who admires a mass murderer, but he's fucked in the head?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

 

[there4eyeM]

The Confederacy was extended great tolerance and honor in being fought as a country and not a simple rebellion. Captured soldiers were treated as prisoners of war, not simply shot as were the Communards. In any other country and situation, they might well have been.
Clemency was also shown to Davis and Lee, among others. All this should not be used against the Union in reasoning that the South was, indeed, separated from the Perpetual Union its states were, and are, part of. It is erroneous to say the 'North' invaded the 'South'. Troops were successfully deployed to put down seditious rebellion.