Is Bush A Racist?

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by LoneVoice
Agreed...
1. After you address the discriminations.
2. Then we can address the anti-discriminations of affirmative action.

Let's all work together to address step 1.
Then let's all work together to address step 2.

First, how, exactly, would you "address the discriminations?" By more discriminations? And calling them "anti-discriminations" is dishonest. Affirmative action is discrimination. You know the old adage, I'm sure, that two wrongs don't make a right?

I personally think that, legally speaking, discrimination against minorities is a thing of the past. It is illegal to discriminate against racial minorites, women, older (or younger) people, etc. etc. I don't know how else one would address the issue of discrimination.

 

[LoneVoice]

Originally posted by gop_jeff
First, how, exactly, would you "address the discriminations?" By more discriminations? And calling them "anti-discriminations" is dishonest. Affirmative action is discrimination. You know the old adage, I'm sure, that two wrongs don't make a right?

I personally think that, legally speaking, discrimination against minorities is a thing of the past. It is illegal to discriminate against racial minorites, women, older (or younger) people, etc. etc. I don't know how else one would address the issue of discrimination.

Obviously, you want to hold onto the claim that discrimination and Affirmative Action are both discriminations. Of which, I can agree with.

And, you want to ignore the distinctions between to two. You don't even want to consider those.

o Discrimination is a part of American society and history and has resulted in an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics. These discriminations have served to taint the natural balance of various groups, based on merit alone.

o Whereas Affirmative Action is a means of countering those discriminations mentioned above. Without the above discriminations, Affirmative Action could not exist.

So, the primary issue revolves around the discrimination mentioned first. Heck, numerous times, I've mentioned that currently successful Blacks have likely encountered discriminations and artificial barriers along the way, aimed at holding them back. Even many of you arguing against Affirmative Action have agreed with that premise (unchallenged). Yet, it's very easy for you to claim that discrimination has been resolved, despite the facts to the contrary. Without regard to the facts about discriminatory practices, you want to eliminate affirmative action.

Once again I restate, let's eliminate the discriminatory practices. When that's resolved, then let's eliminate the counter-discriminatory practices. What's so hard about that?

Don't put the cart, before the horse.

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by LoneVoice
Obviously, you want to hold onto the claim that discrimination and Affirmative Action are both discriminations. Of which, I can agree with.

And, you want to ignore the distinctions between to two. You don't even want to consider those.

o Discrimination is a part of American society and history and has resulted in an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics. These discriminations have served to taint the natural balance of various groups, based on merit alone.

o Whereas Affirmative Action is a means of countering those discriminations mentioned above. Without the above discriminations, Affirmative Action could not exist.

So, the primary issue revolves around the discrimination mentioned first. Heck, numerous times, I've mentioned that currently successful Blacks have likely encountered discriminations and artificial barriers along the way, aimed at holding them back. Even many of you arguing against Affirmative Action have agreed with that premise (unchallenged). Yet, it's very easy for you to claim that discrimination has been resolved, despite the facts to the contrary. Without regard to the facts about discriminatory practices, you want to eliminate affirmative action.

Once again I restate, let's eliminate the discriminatory practices. When that's resolved, then let's eliminate the counter-discriminatory practices. What's so hard about that?

Don't put the cart, before the horse.

I totally disagree with your premise that discrimination is a part of American culture. Maybe it was in the past, maybe it is still alive and well with people like WJ and Big D, but the majority of Americans are simply not like that any more. And if that's the premise that your entire argument is built on, you have no argument - or at least less of one.

Yes, I agree that affirmative action forced employers to open opportunities up to all races and genders. Those doors are fully open now. Continuing to force companies to consider racial quotas as a factor in hiring is counter-productive at this point. The reversal of discrimination in the past has, for the most part, been wiped out. Today's generations (i.e. Gen X and Gen Y) do not share the same views on race that the Baby Boomers and the WWII generation (and those even earlier) share. Racial discrimination is never going to come back in this country - which is for the best of society. But to try to force racial percentages and quotas, as affirmative action does today, is discriminatory in itself, and is not good policy.

 

[LoneVoice]

Originally posted by gop_jeff
I totally disagree with your premise that discrimination is a part of American culture. Maybe it was in the past, maybe it is still alive and well with people like WJ and Big D, but the majority of Americans are simply not like that any more. And if that's the premise that your entire argument is built on, you have no argument - or at least less of one.

Yes, I agree that affirmative action forced employers to open opportunities up to all races and genders. Those doors are fully open now. Continuing to force companies to consider racial quotas as a factor in hiring is counter-productive at this point. The reversal of discrimination in the past has, for the most part, been wiped out. Today's generations (i.e. Gen X and Gen Y) do not share the same views on race that the Baby Boomers and the WWII generation (and those even earlier) share. Racial discrimination is never going to come back in this country - which is for the best of society. But to try to force racial percentages and quotas, as affirmative action does today, is discriminatory in itself, and is not good policy.

OK... According to you, the disparity between the races has been resolved, for the most part?

 

[William Joyce]

You may be technically right, gop_jeff, but blacks don't see it this way. The demands for more of this and more of that are unceasing. They were happening this morning. This is where I think conservatives aren't getting it on race. They can't imagine why blacks are still complaining after all these years. It's because all social indicators show them to be wallowing in the same circumstances as decades ago (well, not all --- but most, and some are worse, like crime). And, they see it. They see that they don't have what whites have. They sense that whites don't want them around. They sense that they will never be a part of the American mainstream. Both liberals and conservatives mistakenly think they can be. But it's impossible.

Lone said: "With that approach we can all responsibly work together."

Translation: Y'all give us yo' bling bling, bitch! An' I means now, boy!

Point: None of this is about "fairness" or "justice" or "diversity," it's about groups demanding things. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by LoneVoice
You know what your main point is.... It heighten the racial resentments from the oppressive majority.

If you look at history, obviously the racial resentments from the oppressed minority have been largely heightened.

Maybe the legislation is serving to balance the racial resentments on both sides of the aisle. Now, that both sides of the aisle are experiencing those racial resentments, that may help to add urgency to remove the discriminations, so that we can then remove the anti-discriminations as well.


Follow the history.
First came the discriminations.
Next came the anti-discriminations.

The next logical course of actions,
Remove the discriminations,
Next remove the anti-discriminations.

At that point, all those points about removing discriminations for all, makes sense.

It's not balancing racial resentment, it's increasing racial resentment. You're a complete idiot.

 

[LoneVoice]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
It's not balancing racial resentment, it's increasing racial resentment. You're a complete idiot.

Technically, on one side of the aisle... it's not increasing racial resentment at all.

 

[LoneVoice]

Originally posted by LoneVoice
Technically, on one side of the aisle... it's not increasing racial resentment at all.

For them, it's actually decreasing racial resentment.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Lonevoice you make no sense for real. Your assertion in the previous post that justice must come in "filo" (first in last out) fashion is logically arbitrary and simply just plain stupid.

 

[LoneVoice]

Originally posted by William Joyce
You may be technically right, gop_jeff, but blacks don't see it this way. The demands for more of this and more of that are unceasing. They were happening this morning. This is where I think conservatives aren't getting it on race. They can't imagine why blacks are still complaining after all these years. It's because all social indicators show them to be wallowing in the same circumstances as decades ago (well, not all --- but most, and some are worse, like crime). And, they see it. They see that they don't have what whites have. They sense that whites don't want them around. They sense that they will never be a part of the American mainstream. Both liberals and conservatives mistakenly think they can be. But it's impossible.

Lone said: "With that approach we can all responsibly work together."

Translation: Y'all give us yo' bling bling, bitch! An' I means now, boy!

Point: None of this is about "fairness" or "justice" or "diversity," it's about groups demanding things. Nothing more, nothing less.

Thanks for continuing to prove my points by example....

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by LoneVoice
OK... According to you, the disparity between the races has been resolved, for the most part?

According to almost everyone I know, it's mostly resolved! Unless you listen to people like BlackMan or WJ, in which case you've got issues to begin with.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by LoneVoice
Technically, on one side of the aisle... it's not increasing racial resentment at all.

But both sides taken together and added up, there is a net increase in resentment. Technically.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by LoneVoice
For them, it's actually decreasing racial resentment.

Is it really? Do you have any statistics or anecdotal evidence at blacks being joyous about affirmative action? That's the base emotion of revenge, not something policy should be based on. You're meager.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by LoneVoice
Thanks for continuing to prove my points by example....

Umm actually he had lots of good points, and you look stupider and stupider as time goes by. FYI.

 

[LoneVoice]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
But both sides taken together and added up, there is a net increase in resentment. Technically.

I'm not so sure that's true. Or even able to be proven.

But one thing is definitely for sure...
For the oppressive majority who have benefited from past discriminations. The removal of those benefits through affirmative action has served to increase resentment from them.

For the oppressed minority (race and gender), affirmative action has served to reduce those same resentments amongst their constituents.

On the whole, that is bringing things closer to balancing those racial resentments. Overall, one could conclude that the racial favoritism is still in the favor of the oppressive majority.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by LoneVoice
I'm not so sure that's true. Or even able to be proven.

But one thing is definitely for sure...
For the oppressive majority who have benefited from past discriminations. The removal of those benefits through affirmative action has served to increase resentment from them.

For the oppressed minority (race and gender), affirmative action has served to reduce those same resentments amongst their constituents.

On the whole, that is bringing things closer to balancing those racial resentments. Overall, one could conclude that the racial favoritism is still in the favor of the oppressive majority.

Everything you say is just an assertion and / or faulty logic. You want to make racially discriminatory policy which punishes individuals simply for the color of their skin. Regardless of the lies you use to justify it to yourself, you're an immoral hack.

Prove that blacks have less resentment now because of affirmative action.

Prove that racial resentments are becoming balanced, and additionally, please elucidate how even if there is an equal amount of resentment on both sides, that that's somehow desirable. DO you rescue a child from abuse by making sure the other kids in the neighborhood are also abused, so it's "equal"?

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by LoneVoice
I'm not so sure that's true. Or even able to be proven.

But one thing is definitely for sure...
For the oppressive majority who have benefited from past discriminations. The removal of those benefits through affirmative action has served to increase resentment from them.

For the oppressed minority (race and gender), affirmative action has served to reduce those same resentments amongst their constituents.

On the whole, that is bringing things closer to balancing those racial resentments. Overall, one could conclude that the racial favoritism is still in the favor of the oppressive majority.

The "oppressive majority?!?!?"

 

[rtwngAvngr]

The libs are the only ones active lobbying to make racial discrimination part of public policy, and succeeding. Here's what's upsetting: Discrimination is on the decline, but your making sure that in the public arena it's on the increase. There's no place for people who think like you in the modern world.

 

[LoneVoice]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
The libs are the only ones active lobbying to make racial discrimination part of public policy, and succeeding. Here's what's upsetting: Discrimination is on the decline, but your making sure that in the public arena it's on the increase. There's no place for people who think like you in the modern world.

Simple approach...
First, resolve the discrimination issues in America. After we complete that process, then, eliminate the counter discimination.

OK.... here's another tact. We know you want to resolve discrimination by removing Affirmative Action.

What other solutions do you have for resolving the other discrimination issues in America?

 

[William Joyce]

Overall, one could conclude that the racial favoritism is still in the favor of the oppressive majority.

1. And this explains Jayson Blair how?

2. Black people, I notice, prefer each other. The black judge I appear before has an all-black staff. Gee, what a coincidence. Do you think black people prefer white people? Yellow people? Or black people? Or none at all? Would you expect us to take you seriously if you said that black people don't take race into account?

3. If the "oppressive majority", i.e., white people, favors its own, what's wrong with that? Who are we supposed to favor --- black people?

Simple approach...
First, resolve the discrimination issues in America. After we complete that process, then, eliminate the counter discimination.

Simple, or simply impossible? Head check, Lone. We've been trying to "resolve the discrimination issues in America" for centuries now. Zero progress has been made. I doubt you think that anyone but white people are to blame for this. What makes you think this will change, even if you're right? "After completing the process," ha. You make it sound like a chemical experiment. That's not how human beings work. "Discrimination" is a good thing, not a bad thing. And it's not "discrimination" you care about it. You wouldn't give a damn if whites were discriminated against. YOU JUST WANT STUFF, MONEY, POWER and PRESTIGE FOR BLACKS. Period. Why not just be up front about it?

Heck, I'm not blushing on my issue. I want sovereignty for white people. I want a space (or spaces) for us, and us only, I want us to control our destiny, I want us to rule our domain. If you're black and in my society, you will dance to the tune I play, or go back to Africa. Period.