Is healthcare a right? why or why not?

[logical4u]

Sure it's a right. It's amazing how easily The Machine has brain-washed so many Americans into believing that of all the things our tax money should go to, this isn't one of them. We're probably about the only country in the world whose citizens fell for that one.

So all the countries in Africa, the Middle East, and the Far East "receive" health care at "no cost".... just sayin' if it is a right, it should be "everywhere".

LOL! So you think Rwanda for example, is an example of a country that offers the kind of human rights you want for America???

Ummmm yeah. Strong argument there junior.

Don't they "share the misery" (like the current President is encouraging)? Just pointing out what "you" claim is a right is NOT a "right".

 

[logical4u]

As stated before, only in America are people so gullible that they can be led to believe the health & welfare of our citizens should not be prioritized over the hundreds of other BS programs paid for. Gotta love the insurance & medical lobbies. They do one helluva job of buying politicians and marketing propaganda.

Do us all a favor, and prioritize the "BS programs" so we know the way. Tell us is everyone eligible for "free healthcare"? Who pays the nurses, the aides, the doctors, the hospitals, the medical centers? Do you think those people are just going to go to work every day without being paid, appropriately? Just "who" is going to "pay" for this "right"?

Be happy to. We pay more than every other country in the world COMBINED on defense. You think we're so evil that's necessary? Or that out soldiers are so bad at their job? Nope. You've been sold on it.
How about the billions we just give away to the corrupt politicians of foreign countries? You prioritize THAT over making sure our vets get health & mental care?
But the idea of using tax dollars for the well-being of the citizenry extends only within the parameters you've been led to believe are "acceptable".
So your ignorance on this subject is understandable. You've been programmed to believe something by those who prey on certain metaprograms in your political and cultural ideology & preferences. You don't know any better than to believe the bs they feed you, you just do.
You believe you think for yourself and that it's a "coincidence" that I can tell you all your opinions on dozens of unrelated issues, with 90%+ accuracy but that you can't do this with me (it's that free & independent thinking thing). [/QUOTE]

That is the extent of your priority list? Not very precise.
The current President (the one touting forced support of healthcare) was trying to cut healthcare to vets wounded during service, once they were out of the military (many were discharge due to their wounds), and you want to trust him with yours?
The "well being" of citizenry? Please categorize what "citizens" will be eligible for "free care" and which citizens will be forced to pay for that care. Then explain how you will enforce the eligibility (libs don't even want ID used to vote, I can't imagine what they would think about requiring it for health care). It is a system that will bankrupt the program, and if it is not ended, it will bankrupt the nation.

BTW if we don't have a military, how common do you think roadside bombs would be, here?

The money for "corrupt" gov'ts: think of it as a divorce: you pay for someone not to live with you.

 

[beagle9]

Sure, as long as they're not committing fraud and, most importantly, as long as I'm not forced to do business with them.

Ok, so lets say you need to do business with a health insurance company, but their is only one that you can do business with in which you can afford in your state, but then you find out that the reason you can afford it, is because the policy they will have written for you, is virtually no good & barely covers or pays for anything, and that really all you are doing by way of affordability, is giving what little bit of money you have in affordability, to a company that is not giving you an adequate policy for your health to be maintained in a quality way.

Is this ok or acceptable by you, when it comes to peoples lives, and isn't this a form of fraud perpetrated in the state when it comes to healthcare and a company gouging it's clients in which is allowed to exist in the state, where as the people are being misled or forced into dealing with predators who want money from them, but end up giving hardly nothing in return for that money that was taken from them ? These are real problems that have been attempted to be adressed, but many on the take want a blind eye turned towards such problems when it comes to these elections.

The people are tired of being played as fools, and these past elections have been showing this now.. Not enough is being done yet, but it is the peoples hopes that these issues will be adressed and will be dealt with by the next President right on and on, and if Obama meets with his continued rehetoric on the issues, while the republicans hide from it, then he wins again hands down. It's just that simple, because there are many who have been wiped out by the republicans and their greed, thus leading to some pretty bad things in this nation in concerns of, and yes the dems have had their hands in it also, but the dems are in the position of having a better human rights record on compassion, where as the repubs have been greedy tyrants for the last 20 or 30 years looking back now.

This nation is in a pickle, and no one soul knows the answer to it all, because many are still on the take for whom are in the cliques only, and their brainwashing has them voting with their wallets that are stuffed by the clique, but sadly they are in the minority when it comes to who has been hurt in this nation over time by it all, so the majority will place Obama back into the whitehouse again, because he will continue the class warfare found within these issues, while the repubs constantly cry fowl and cling to their greed, and not to their guns and religion as was claimed.

Ahh, the ever-popular liberal ploy of "Let's set up a hypothetical situation that would never exist in the real world, and then discuss public policy based on THAT, rather than reality".

I have a better idea. Let's say the world works the way it ACTUALLY works, and people behave the way people ACTUALLY behave.

Ahh, so this is a reality thing based upon or according to you and/or me type of response you have given eh? Well come this election time we shall see who will be behaving in a realistic way, or rather who will be living in a denial kind of way, and this as the people will then again decide with their vote, who will truly put an end to the dreamers of greed over the nation's security and health in which it has threatened as a whole now.

 

[Douger]

Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurp.
What did you do with my money ?

 

[IndependntLogic]

As stated before, only in America are people so gullible that they can be led to believe the health & welfare of our citizens should not be prioritized over the hundreds of other BS programs paid for. Gotta love the insurance & medical lobbies. They do one helluva job of buying politicians and marketing propaganda.

Do us all a favor, and prioritize the "BS programs" so we know the way. Tell us is everyone eligible for "free healthcare"? Who pays the nurses, the aides, the doctors, the hospitals, the medical centers? Do you think those people are just going to go to work every day without being paid, appropriately? Just "who" is going to "pay" for this "right"?

Be happy to. We pay more than every other country in the world COMBINED on defense. You think we're so evil that's necessary? Or that out soldiers are so bad at their job? Nope. You've been sold on it.
How about the billions we just give away to the corrupt politicians of foreign countries? You prioritize THAT over making sure our vets get health & mental care?
But the idea of using tax dollars for the well-being of the citizenry extends only within the parameters you've been led to believe are "acceptable".
So your ignorance on this subject is understandable. You've been programmed to believe something by those who prey on certain metaprograms in your political and cultural ideology & preferences. You don't know any better than to believe the bs they feed you, you just do.
You believe you think for yourself and that it's a "coincidence" that I can tell you all your opinions on dozens of unrelated issues, with 90%+ accuracy but that you can't do this with me (it's that free & independent thinking thing).

That is the extent of your priority list? Not very precise.
The current President (the one touting forced support of healthcare) was trying to cut healthcare to vets wounded during service, once they were out of the military (many were discharge due to their wounds), and you want to trust him with yours?
The "well being" of citizenry? Please categorize what "citizens" will be eligible for "free care" and which citizens will be forced to pay for that care. Then explain how you will enforce the eligibility (libs don't even want ID used to vote, I can't imagine what they would think about requiring it for health care). It is a system that will bankrupt the program, and if it is not ended, it will bankrupt the nation.

BTW if we don't have a military, how common do you think roadside bombs would be, here?

The money for "corrupt" gov'ts: think of it as a divorce: you pay for someone not to live with you.[/QUOTE]

LOL! Typical whackjob mentality. Dude you are very thoroughly programmed. So anyone suggesting we cut the defense budget, in your mind equals "we don't have a military".
You really think I'm going to make a list of every govt pogram for you? Yeah good luck with that. I offered a couple examples just show what is possible.

As far as healthcare goes, there are lots of options. I think Japan and Indonesia have pretty good programs, when I lived in Canada guess what? Never had to wait like you've been programmed by the MSM to believe. Certainly not anymore than here. Same as when I lived in Mexico. Austria and even the Ukraine actually offered much that was better.
But your ignorance and lack of sophistication isn't due solely to your lack of direct experience, it's willful ignorance - it's not that you couldn't learn the truth, it's that you've been programmed to reject it. You actually believe and even WANT to believe that we couldn't accomplish what every civilized industrial country in the world has had for decades. Trying to educate you would be futile. What you need is deprogramming.
Like I said, this is why I can predict with 90%+ accuracy all your opinions on a variety of unrelated issues and you can't do the same with me. I think for myself. You're programmed.

 

[beagle9]

In my opinion, healthcare should be a sector that people educate themselves more .

Ok, I will give you this educating information on my deal, I mean if it helps educate you any further in the situation being endured by many now these days I'm thinking.... I buy insurance at a rate that is outrageous to say the least, where as it is around $40.00 dollars week just for single coverage in which I pay right now for coverage through my job. The deductible is around $2,000 dollars to be paid up front by an out of pocket expense from me 1st, and this before major medical services are to be rendered unto me if I need them when something bad happens to me, otherwise this has to happen before my coverage will kick in after the deductible is paid by me, then it only pays 80% up to a certain amount and no more, still leaving me in bankruptcy no matter if had to eal with cancer or something bad in which I just might live through , because I then get charged or scammed by the medical proffession next, who inturn scammed and/or as proven in many cases now "defrauded" the insurance company, who inturn rolled it all down hill afterwards upon the patient in the end for whom is me.

If I were say in a good healthcare policy issued by the government from say way back when, then I would have been covered for over 30 years now with the same policy, and it would have been without any health issues for all those years, because I was healthy as a horse and highly productive through out those years, and being blessed so far I still am, and this would have allowed others who are sick to have been taken care of, if they were in the same huge universal government pool in which we all would have or should have been members of in this hypothetical over the years.

We could have named it the "American Healthcare Group Policy" (AHGP)...Paid for by working class Americans & their government in a joint relationship to better America, and this by making sure America is healthy and growing in that health always, and this be it without greed ever crippling her & her good citizens again in this nation ever.

Instead, my healtcare is changed out now just about every two to four years, in which is done I feel because of the scam of all scams by these companies, for whom does these change outs within these time frames, in order to skirt liability and/or to take the money/profits made and run with them. So what they were doing basically, is stealing my money for all these years, leaving me high and dry afterwards, and with no service or product ever received by me, in which I had paid my money to without hesitation of, then next I have to seek a new policy or be asked to take what ever the company I work for offers me as their next carrier, in which is the only option affordable at all during these times in which we live, and this goes mostly for all of us as well these days, who have experienced this duping for so long now in our lives.

Ok, then next we go and try and use a policy that we may have gotten a year or two earlier, only to find out that it won't pay for this, and dag nabbit it won't pay for that, yet we are paying top dollar for these policies (i.e. $40.00 dollars to a whopping $125.00 dollars a week, otherwise this happens when and if family coverage is needed and then added).. My friend is paying the $125.00 a week now, and he can't even get a prescription filled for Nexium in which the doctor had prescribed for him, because the isurance won't pay for it at all, and he can't afford it without the insurance helping out. So what is his options? To just suffer, and yet to keep paying the outrageous amounts without any usage of ? Oh and he is healthy as a horse as well, except for the problem (acid reflux) that he needed the Nexium for.

The game should be up, and the Americans should demand better than this now, and I mean demand it without any no being left as any option on the table, only yes is to be accepted by us anymore when it comes to straightening this mess back out.

 

[Grandma]

How many of you travel?

In the event of emergency, do you know what providers are in your healthcare network at your travel destination? What if your insurance requires a referral from your family doctor back home to see a specialist regarding your emergency? How does your definition of emergency differ from your insurance company's? What if your emergency involves dental work or glasses?

I think it would be great to simply walk into the nearest facility that deals with my "emergency" and get treatment on the spot, rather than having to wait for approval or having to pay up front.

 

[logical4u]

Do us all a favor, and prioritize the "BS programs" so we know the way. Tell us is everyone eligible for "free healthcare"? Who pays the nurses, the aides, the doctors, the hospitals, the medical centers? Do you think those people are just going to go to work every day without being paid, appropriately? Just "who" is going to "pay" for this "right"?

Be happy to. We pay more than every other country in the world COMBINED on defense. You think we're so evil that's necessary? Or that out soldiers are so bad at their job? Nope. You've been sold on it.
How about the billions we just give away to the corrupt politicians of foreign countries? You prioritize THAT over making sure our vets get health & mental care?
But the idea of using tax dollars for the well-being of the citizenry extends only within the parameters you've been led to believe are "acceptable".
So your ignorance on this subject is understandable. You've been programmed to believe something by those who prey on certain metaprograms in your political and cultural ideology & preferences. You don't know any better than to believe the bs they feed you, you just do.
You believe you think for yourself and that it's a "coincidence" that I can tell you all your opinions on dozens of unrelated issues, with 90%+ accuracy but that you can't do this with me (it's that free & independent thinking thing).

That is the extent of your priority list? Not very precise.
The current President (the one touting forced support of healthcare) was trying to cut healthcare to vets wounded during service, once they were out of the military (many were discharge due to their wounds), and you want to trust him with yours?
The "well being" of citizenry? Please categorize what "citizens" will be eligible for "free care" and which citizens will be forced to pay for that care. Then explain how you will enforce the eligibility (libs don't even want ID used to vote, I can't imagine what they would think about requiring it for health care). It is a system that will bankrupt the program, and if it is not ended, it will bankrupt the nation.

BTW if we don't have a military, how common do you think roadside bombs would be, here?

The money for "corrupt" gov'ts: think of it as a divorce: you pay for someone not to live with you.

LOL! Typical whackjob mentality. Dude you are very thoroughly programmed. So anyone suggesting we cut the defense budget, in your mind equals "we don't have a military".
You really think I'm going to make a list of every govt pogram for you? Yeah good luck with that. I offered a couple examples just show what is possible.

As far as healthcare goes, there are lots of options. I think Japan and Indonesia have pretty good programs, when I lived in Canada guess what? Never had to wait like you've been programmed by the MSM to believe. Certainly not anymore than here. Same as when I lived in Mexico. Austria and even the Ukraine actually offered much that was better.
But your ignorance and lack of sophistication isn't due solely to your lack of direct experience, it's willful ignorance - it's not that you couldn't learn the truth, it's that you've been programmed to reject it. You actually believe and even WANT to believe that we couldn't accomplish what every civilized industrial country in the world has had for decades. Trying to educate you would be futile. What you need is deprogramming.
Like I said, this is why I can predict with 90%+ accuracy all your opinions on a variety of unrelated issues and you can't do the same with me. I think for myself. You're programmed.[/QUOTE]

What kind of healthcare did you require in those other countries? Was it long-term care? Was it a quick stitch and gone, care?

If you talk to people that needed serious care (not a medical emergency of setting a bone or stitches), there is a wait in gov't health care in foreign countries. In many cases of "elderly patients" (what Obama care has re-defines as "units"), health-care is denied for joint replacements, long-term cancer treatment, etc. If you want to do the research on the care of the elderly (the wealthy), look it up. In this country, up to this administration, we have looked at the elderly as "humans". They deserve the same rights (spend their resources any way they want to spend them, even if it is healthcare) that everyone else in this country has. If, you invest in "age warfare" (the elderly are of no social value and medical care should be: 'give 'em a pill') to take their resources (wealth), you are setting yourself and the country to repeat Hitler's German philosophies. I know you believe that I am blowing this out of proportion, and that this can never happen here. It is because you want this to happen (to take others' wealth, but you do not want to be aware that it is happening), Terry Schrivo, embryos being created for experimentation and then killed, abortion promoted as the answer to bad decisions, etc are signs that it is already happening, and that many of the adversaries of the elderly are welcoming it.

 

[Greenbeard]

In many cases of "elderly patients" (what Obama care has re-defines as "units"), health-care is denied for joint replacements, long-term cancer treatment, etc. If you want to do the research on the care of the elderly (the wealthy), look it up. In this country, up to this administration, we have looked at the elderly as "humans".

I'm pretty sure they're still looked at as human.

 

[NYcarbineer]

You want healthcare left to 'free market' forces?

Then people who can't afford it, will simply have to go without.

Is that really the kind of country you want to live in, where the poorer are less healthy than the richer, for no other reason than wealth, or lack of it?

Should we apply that to education as well? Why not let the poor figure out how to pay to educate their children, or let their children go without if they can't.

The 'free market' crap that conservatives want is nothing more than an excuse to abandon any semblance of anyone's responsibility to contribute to the common good.

 

[dblack]

You want healthcare left to 'free market' forces?

Then people who can't afford it, will simply have to go without.

Is that really the kind of country you want to live in, where the poorer are less healthy than the richer, for no other reason than wealth, or lack of it?

Should we apply that to education as well? Why not let the poor figure out how to pay to educate their children, or let their children go without if they can't.

The 'free market' crap that conservatives want is nothing more than an excuse to abandon any semblance of anyone's responsibility to contribute to the common good.

No, that's not it at all. At least that's not the view of most conservatives I talk to. Most of them are OK with a safety net; they contribute to charity, they help out their friends and community members in need. So you get and "F" on your attempts to demonize.

The question of what to do about helping the poor, in terms of government policy, has largely been answered. We have numerous safety nets and policies to help those on the bottom rung. If the argument was merely that those safety nets aren't doing enough, we would be talking about how to beef them up. Clearly something else is at work here.

The way I see it (from here on referred to as "the way it is"), we have two mostly unrelated concerns with health care:

Most immediate is the issue is what to do about health care inflation. Health care prices have been increasing at many times the rate of normal inflation for several decades now. If this continues, none of us will be able to afford health care, regardless of who is paying for it.

The other issue is the practice of socializing health care risk. What began as a hedge against the risk of medical related bankruptcy, has become the primary means of financing everyday health care. The next step, according to some, is to socialize all medical expenses at a national level.

I say these two issues are mostly unrelated, but there are some key intersections. First of all, health care inflation clearly colors the debate on socializing health care. The more health care prices go up, the more people yearn to be relieved of the responsibility of paying their own way. Conversely, if health care inflation weren't a problem, if health care prices were going down instead of up, people would be less worried about socializing the costs.

The second point of intersection is actually where the two concerns come into conflict. Unfortunately, socializing costs also happens to be one of the principal drivers of health care inflation. It's not that hard to understand. In any market, prices will rise to the maximum level people are willing to pay. And when we're not spending our own money, our "will to pay" is virtually unlimited.

That sets up the political struggle we're seeing now over health care. For those of us who see health care inflation as the biggest problem, the preoccupation with socializing costs seems counterproductive and irrational. It's all the more frustrating because effectively dealing with the inflation problem would minimize the problems the socializers are trying to solve - to the point that they would be easily addressed by existing safety nets.

 

[IndependntLogic]

Be happy to. We pay more than every other country in the world COMBINED on defense. You think we're so evil that's necessary? Or that out soldiers are so bad at their job? Nope. You've been sold on it.
How about the billions we just give away to the corrupt politicians of foreign countries? You prioritize THAT over making sure our vets get health & mental care?
But the idea of using tax dollars for the well-being of the citizenry extends only within the parameters you've been led to believe are "acceptable".
So your ignorance on this subject is understandable. You've been programmed to believe something by those who prey on certain metaprograms in your political and cultural ideology & preferences. You don't know any better than to believe the bs they feed you, you just do.
You believe you think for yourself and that it's a "coincidence" that I can tell you all your opinions on dozens of unrelated issues, with 90%+ accuracy but that you can't do this with me (it's that free & independent thinking thing).

That is the extent of your priority list? Not very precise.
The current President (the one touting forced support of healthcare) was trying to cut healthcare to vets wounded during service, once they were out of the military (many were discharge due to their wounds), and you want to trust him with yours?
The "well being" of citizenry? Please categorize what "citizens" will be eligible for "free care" and which citizens will be forced to pay for that care. Then explain how you will enforce the eligibility (libs don't even want ID used to vote, I can't imagine what they would think about requiring it for health care). It is a system that will bankrupt the program, and if it is not ended, it will bankrupt the nation.

BTW if we don't have a military, how common do you think roadside bombs would be, here?

The money for "corrupt" gov'ts: think of it as a divorce: you pay for someone not to live with you.

LOL! Typical whackjob mentality. Dude you are very thoroughly programmed. So anyone suggesting we cut the defense budget, in your mind equals "we don't have a military".
You really think I'm going to make a list of every govt pogram for you? Yeah good luck with that. I offered a couple examples just show what is possible.

As far as healthcare goes, there are lots of options. I think Japan and Indonesia have pretty good programs, when I lived in Canada guess what? Never had to wait like you've been programmed by the MSM to believe. Certainly not anymore than here. Same as when I lived in Mexico. Austria and even the Ukraine actually offered much that was better.
But your ignorance and lack of sophistication isn't due solely to your lack of direct experience, it's willful ignorance - it's not that you couldn't learn the truth, it's that you've been programmed to reject it. You actually believe and even WANT to believe that we couldn't accomplish what every civilized industrial country in the world has had for decades. Trying to educate you would be futile. What you need is deprogramming.
Like I said, this is why I can predict with 90%+ accuracy all your opinions on a variety of unrelated issues and you can't do the same with me. I think for myself. You're programmed.

What kind of healthcare did you require in those other countries? Was it long-term care? Was it a quick stitch and gone, care?

If you talk to people that needed serious care (not a medical emergency of setting a bone or stitches), there is a wait in gov't health care in foreign countries. In many cases of "elderly patients" (what Obama care has re-defines as "units"), health-care is denied for joint replacements, long-term cancer treatment, etc. If you want to do the research on the care of the elderly (the wealthy), look it up. In this country, up to this administration, we have looked at the elderly as "humans". They deserve the same rights (spend their resources any way they want to spend them, even if it is healthcare) that everyone else in this country has. If, you invest in "age warfare" (the elderly are of no social value and medical care should be: 'give 'em a pill') to take their resources (wealth), you are setting yourself and the country to repeat Hitler's German philosophies. I know you believe that I am blowing this out of proportion, and that this can never happen here. It is because you want this to happen (to take others' wealth, but you do not want to be aware that it is happening), Terry Schrivo, embryos being created for experimentation and then killed, abortion promoted as the answer to bad decisions, etc are signs that it is already happening, and that many of the adversaries of the elderly are welcoming it.[/QUOTE]

Youare SO programmed. Seriously. I've lived long term in other countries all over the world.
You need a hip replacement in America and guess what? You're not getting it AT ALL. Not if you work at Wal-Mart, the Dollar Store, McDonald's, many small businesses, any casino, or are unemployed.
Our neighbor in Sugar Land (TX) was a fine Republican (as most Houstonians are) his whole life. He had an engineering degree and worked at a utility with great benefits for twenty years. His wife stayed home and had a debilitating disease (might have been Parkinson's, I can't remember). They a nice house, money in the pension fund and did all those things ConservaRepubs told them too. Then ENRON went under. They lost everything - including their health insurance.
My brother got cancer. He HAD insurance through the painting contractor he worked for but it wan't that great. But it still ended up costing me between $6 - $9K a month to take care of him. That and the emotional drain almost bankrupted us - of course, I could have gone the ConservaRepubLitarian route and just said "Fug him, his problem". Don't have it in me to turn my back on friends or family.
Oh and when I lived in Canada, the wait for an MRI was about three weeks. Guess what? By the time you go through the mandatory visit to your PCP, then get approval for any referral, it's about the same time.
When I lived in The Ukraine, I had a neighbor who had some kind of lung problem from the factory where he used to work. Constant care required. Cost: $0
My friend broke his arm in China. Total cost for exam, x-rays and cast? About twenty bucks. Came home and went in to have it removed. Cost: $1200.
Oh and when I was in the military, I had American government run health care. I didn't know a single officer who bought private insurance. Hmmm.

And you think American health care is fine? You think can't do what every industrialized country in the world can? You're programmed.

 

[logical4u]

You want healthcare left to 'free market' forces?

Then people who can't afford it, will simply have to go without.

Is that really the kind of country you want to live in, where the poorer are less healthy than the richer, for no other reason than wealth, or lack of it?

Should we apply that to education as well? Why not let the poor figure out how to pay to educate their children, or let their children go without if they can't.

The 'free market' crap that conservatives want is nothing more than an excuse to abandon any semblance of anyone's responsibility to contribute to the common good.

My first thought on your response is: this guy probably believes in evolution, too ...


"If" people are comfortable (the middle class), their families are fed and clothed and there is shelter, they do not mind giving (generosity) to those less fortunate. This is how medical care in this country has evolved.
Those that were rich could afford to have private physicians go to war with them, before the 1900s. Once advancements in medicine became technological, that cost sky-rocketed. There were NO POOR PEOPLE donating to hospitals to get those machines for medical care (it was the wealthy, and the middle class holding fund-raisers, from other wealthy and middle-class). The "poor" benefited by having those machines at local hospitals where they could go for "emergency" treatment". The attitude today in this country, encouraged by the President is not to "increase care for the poor", it is too "punish the wealthy and the middle-class" by reducing the quality of "their care". Who will that "benefit"? Will it "advance" health care? Once you have "punished" the wealthy and the middle-class by forcing (not generosity, taking care of other people's families BEFORE they can take care of theirs) them to support people that "choose" not to support themselves, do you really think medicine will move forward in this country? I predict that the wealthy and the middle class will travel to other countries to receive their advanced medical treatment, and what is left here will stagnate and turn sour (all thanks to the current philosophy of punishing the achievers). What help will be available for the "poor" then?

Education is the same way: the wealthy used their resources to benefit all. Because they don't go door to door knocking and begging people to come and let them foot the bill for the rest of the poor person's life, you want to complain. Look at history, the "poor" have always had a harder life because of fewer resources. This country was the first, THE FIRST, to offer the poor oportunity to change that. People that are born into poverty do not have to stay there. High school kids join the ranks of the poor when they start out in life. It is their choice if they stay at that level. If they do not like it they can improve their work skills, or in modern day, get an education to get better jobs. It is not how you guys portray it, where a person is born into poverty and for every generation, after that, that family remains in poverty.

If you want better "health care" and better "education", grow the wealth (rich and middle class). The people that "make it" will need products and services and will be willing to pay for those. If they are not using the products or services, they will not mind "sharing". If you shrink the wealthy and middle class (the politicians and ruling elite get more), there are fewer resources to be shared: health care and education suffer.

Not that you really care, you use "compassion" for the "poor" as a weapon to satisfy your envy. It is more about destroying, than about building.

 

[logical4u]

That is the extent of your priority list? Not very precise.
The current President (the one touting forced support of healthcare) was trying to cut healthcare to vets wounded during service, once they were out of the military (many were discharge due to their wounds), and you want to trust him with yours?
The "well being" of citizenry? Please categorize what "citizens" will be eligible for "free care" and which citizens will be forced to pay for that care. Then explain how you will enforce the eligibility (libs don't even want ID used to vote, I can't imagine what they would think about requiring it for health care). It is a system that will bankrupt the program, and if it is not ended, it will bankrupt the nation.

BTW if we don't have a military, how common do you think roadside bombs would be, here?

The money for "corrupt" gov'ts: think of it as a divorce: you pay for someone not to live with you.

LOL! Typical whackjob mentality. Dude you are very thoroughly programmed. So anyone suggesting we cut the defense budget, in your mind equals "we don't have a military".
You really think I'm going to make a list of every govt pogram for you? Yeah good luck with that. I offered a couple examples just show what is possible.

As far as healthcare goes, there are lots of options. I think Japan and Indonesia have pretty good programs, when I lived in Canada guess what? Never had to wait like you've been programmed by the MSM to believe. Certainly not anymore than here. Same as when I lived in Mexico. Austria and even the Ukraine actually offered much that was better.
But your ignorance and lack of sophistication isn't due solely to your lack of direct experience, it's willful ignorance - it's not that you couldn't learn the truth, it's that you've been programmed to reject it. You actually believe and even WANT to believe that we couldn't accomplish what every civilized industrial country in the world has had for decades. Trying to educate you would be futile. What you need is deprogramming.
Like I said, this is why I can predict with 90%+ accuracy all your opinions on a variety of unrelated issues and you can't do the same with me. I think for myself. You're programmed.

What kind of healthcare did you require in those other countries? Was it long-term care? Was it a quick stitch and gone, care?

If you talk to people that needed serious care (not a medical emergency of setting a bone or stitches), there is a wait in gov't health care in foreign countries. In many cases of "elderly patients" (what Obama care has re-defines as "units"), health-care is denied for joint replacements, long-term cancer treatment, etc. If you want to do the research on the care of the elderly (the wealthy), look it up. In this country, up to this administration, we have looked at the elderly as "humans". They deserve the same rights (spend their resources any way they want to spend them, even if it is healthcare) that everyone else in this country has. If, you invest in "age warfare" (the elderly are of no social value and medical care should be: 'give 'em a pill') to take their resources (wealth), you are setting yourself and the country to repeat Hitler's German philosophies. I know you believe that I am blowing this out of proportion, and that this can never happen here. It is because you want this to happen (to take others' wealth, but you do not want to be aware that it is happening), Terry Schrivo, embryos being created for experimentation and then killed, abortion promoted as the answer to bad decisions, etc are signs that it is already happening, and that many of the adversaries of the elderly are welcoming it.

Youare SO programmed. Seriously. I've lived long term in other countries all over the world.
You need a hip replacement in America and guess what? You're not getting it AT ALL. Not if you work at Wal-Mart, the Dollar Store, McDonald's, many small businesses, any casino, or are unemployed.
Our neighbor in Sugar Land (TX) was a fine Republican (as most Houstonians are) his whole life. He had an engineering degree and worked at a utility with great benefits for twenty years. His wife stayed home and had a debilitating disease (might have been Parkinson's, I can't remember). They a nice house, money in the pension fund and did all those things ConservaRepubs told them too. Then ENRON went under. They lost everything - including their health insurance.
My brother got cancer. He HAD insurance through the painting contractor he worked for but it wan't that great. But it still ended up costing me between $6 - $9K a month to take care of him. That and the emotional drain almost bankrupted us - of course, I could have gone the ConservaRepubLitarian route and just said "Fug him, his problem". Don't have it in me to turn my back on friends or family.
Oh and when I lived in Canada, the wait for an MRI was about three weeks. Guess what? By the time you go through the mandatory visit to your PCP, then get approval for any referral, it's about the same time.
When I lived in The Ukraine, I had a neighbor who had some kind of lung problem from the factory where he used to work. Constant care required. Cost: $0
My friend broke his arm in China. Total cost for exam, x-rays and cast? About twenty bucks. Came home and went in to have it removed. Cost: $1200.
Oh and when I was in the military, I had American government run health care. I didn't know a single officer who bought private insurance. Hmmm.

And you think American health care is fine? You think can't do what every industrialized country in the world can? You're programmed.[/QUOTE]

NEVER SAID AMERICAN HEALTH CARE IS FINE. I am saying you cannot improve it by forcing other people to provide care for those "less fortunate" before you are "permitted" to take care of your own family.
Yes, there are people that cannot get care in this country for expensive treatments. The charities that used to do this are now suffering under the current administration demanding money from taxpayers, so they can decide who gets what "charity". Yes, there are risks to "making it". You can increase your wealth to amounts that you never dreamed when you were young, and the reverse is also true, you can end up broke (financially or physically). It is a reality in this country. There is no one promising you anything different.
For some reason people that go into countries where there are subjects (owned by the gov't) and not citizens want the same thing here. The risk is lowered by having your health care (within reason, according to the gov't) provided, but the risk is also lowered for subjects to ever accumulate real wealth.

If you really think that those countries have a better system, why not move there? What is it about this country keeps you here? Why not move to expand charities that help with medical care, instead of trying to punish those that have worked for decades to get it?

 

[archigogo]

healthcare should always be free, no one should suffer from their rights and worry about huge bills before they even step into the hospitals

 

[9thIDdoc]

Basic healthcare should be paid for through the taxes we are already paying.
Insurance is the primary problem; not the solution.

 

[IndependntLogic]

LOL! Typical whackjob mentality. Dude you are very thoroughly programmed. So anyone suggesting we cut the defense budget, in your mind equals "we don't have a military".
You really think I'm going to make a list of every govt pogram for you? Yeah good luck with that. I offered a couple examples just show what is possible.

As far as healthcare goes, there are lots of options. I think Japan and Indonesia have pretty good programs, when I lived in Canada guess what? Never had to wait like you've been programmed by the MSM to believe. Certainly not anymore than here. Same as when I lived in Mexico. Austria and even the Ukraine actually offered much that was better.
But your ignorance and lack of sophistication isn't due solely to your lack of direct experience, it's willful ignorance - it's not that you couldn't learn the truth, it's that you've been programmed to reject it. You actually believe and even WANT to believe that we couldn't accomplish what every civilized industrial country in the world has had for decades. Trying to educate you would be futile. What you need is deprogramming.
Like I said, this is why I can predict with 90%+ accuracy all your opinions on a variety of unrelated issues and you can't do the same with me. I think for myself. You're programmed.

What kind of healthcare did you require in those other countries? Was it long-term care? Was it a quick stitch and gone, care?

If you talk to people that needed serious care (not a medical emergency of setting a bone or stitches), there is a wait in gov't health care in foreign countries. In many cases of "elderly patients" (what Obama care has re-defines as "units"), health-care is denied for joint replacements, long-term cancer treatment, etc. If you want to do the research on the care of the elderly (the wealthy), look it up. In this country, up to this administration, we have looked at the elderly as "humans". They deserve the same rights (spend their resources any way they want to spend them, even if it is healthcare) that everyone else in this country has. If, you invest in "age warfare" (the elderly are of no social value and medical care should be: 'give 'em a pill') to take their resources (wealth), you are setting yourself and the country to repeat Hitler's German philosophies. I know you believe that I am blowing this out of proportion, and that this can never happen here. It is because you want this to happen (to take others' wealth, but you do not want to be aware that it is happening), Terry Schrivo, embryos being created for experimentation and then killed, abortion promoted as the answer to bad decisions, etc are signs that it is already happening, and that many of the adversaries of the elderly are welcoming it.

Youare SO programmed. Seriously. I've lived long term in other countries all over the world.
You need a hip replacement in America and guess what? You're not getting it AT ALL. Not if you work at Wal-Mart, the Dollar Store, McDonald's, many small businesses, any casino, or are unemployed.
Our neighbor in Sugar Land (TX) was a fine Republican (as most Houstonians are) his whole life. He had an engineering degree and worked at a utility with great benefits for twenty years. His wife stayed home and had a debilitating disease (might have been Parkinson's, I can't remember). They a nice house, money in the pension fund and did all those things ConservaRepubs told them too. Then ENRON went under. They lost everything - including their health insurance.
My brother got cancer. He HAD insurance through the painting contractor he worked for but it wan't that great. But it still ended up costing me between $6 - $9K a month to take care of him. That and the emotional drain almost bankrupted us - of course, I could have gone the ConservaRepubLitarian route and just said "Fug him, his problem". Don't have it in me to turn my back on friends or family.
Oh and when I lived in Canada, the wait for an MRI was about three weeks. Guess what? By the time you go through the mandatory visit to your PCP, then get approval for any referral, it's about the same time.
When I lived in The Ukraine, I had a neighbor who had some kind of lung problem from the factory where he used to work. Constant care required. Cost: $0
My friend broke his arm in China. Total cost for exam, x-rays and cast? About twenty bucks. Came home and went in to have it removed. Cost: $1200.
Oh and when I was in the military, I had American government run health care. I didn't know a single officer who bought private insurance. Hmmm.

And you think American health care is fine? You think can't do what every industrialized country in the world can? You're programmed.

NEVER SAID AMERICAN HEALTH CARE IS FINE. I am saying you cannot improve it by forcing other people to provide care for those "less fortunate" before you are "permitted" to take care of your own family.
Yes, there are people that cannot get care in this country for expensive treatments. The charities that used to do this are now suffering under the current administration demanding money from taxpayers, so they can decide who gets what "charity". Yes, there are risks to "making it". You can increase your wealth to amounts that you never dreamed when you were young, and the reverse is also true, you can end up broke (financially or physically). It is a reality in this country. There is no one promising you anything different.
For some reason people that go into countries where there are subjects (owned by the gov't) and not citizens want the same thing here. The risk is lowered by having your health care (within reason, according to the gov't) provided, but the risk is also lowered for subjects to ever accumulate real wealth.

If you really think that those countries have a better system, why not move there? What is it about this country keeps you here? Why not move to expand charities that help with medical care, instead of trying to punish those that have worked for decades to get it?[/QUOTE]

Again your post shows how programmed you are. Phrases like "punish those who have worked for it" and such show your ignorance of other possibilities. Phrases like "subjects" when referring to other countries shows the combination of arrogance and ignorance that comes from being thoroughly programmed.
Then of course the ultimate display of weakness: "Oh yeah, well if you don't like my position, why don't you just leave America! Nyah!".
Really? So then you love legal abortion? Gay marriage? Obamacare? Because you know, if you don't love every single thing, you should move right? Ignorance run amok.
If as you say, the public option would offer such poor service, then those who are paying for better private service can keep it. Simple.
I alreayd know your reply but it's actually kinda fun watching you regurgitate Glenn Beck soundbites verbatim.

 

[dblack]

What kind of healthcare did you require in those other countries? Was it long-term care? Was it a quick stitch and gone, care?

If you talk to people that needed serious care (not a medical emergency of setting a bone or stitches), there is a wait in gov't health care in foreign countries. In many cases of "elderly patients" (what Obama care has re-defines as "units"), health-care is denied for joint replacements, long-term cancer treatment, etc. If you want to do the research on the care of the elderly (the wealthy), look it up. In this country, up to this administration, we have looked at the elderly as "humans". They deserve the same rights (spend their resources any way they want to spend them, even if it is healthcare) that everyone else in this country has. If, you invest in "age warfare" (the elderly are of no social value and medical care should be: 'give 'em a pill') to take their resources (wealth), you are setting yourself and the country to repeat Hitler's German philosophies. I know you believe that I am blowing this out of proportion, and that this can never happen here. It is because you want this to happen (to take others' wealth, but you do not want to be aware that it is happening), Terry Schrivo, embryos being created for experimentation and then killed, abortion promoted as the answer to bad decisions, etc are signs that it is already happening, and that many of the adversaries of the elderly are welcoming it.

Youare SO programmed. Seriously. I've lived long term in other countries all over the world.
You need a hip replacement in America and guess what? You're not getting it AT ALL. Not if you work at Wal-Mart, the Dollar Store, McDonald's, many small businesses, any casino, or are unemployed.
Our neighbor in Sugar Land (TX) was a fine Republican (as most Houstonians are) his whole life. He had an engineering degree and worked at a utility with great benefits for twenty years. His wife stayed home and had a debilitating disease (might have been Parkinson's, I can't remember). They a nice house, money in the pension fund and did all those things ConservaRepubs told them too. Then ENRON went under. They lost everything - including their health insurance.
My brother got cancer. He HAD insurance through the painting contractor he worked for but it wan't that great. But it still ended up costing me between $6 - $9K a month to take care of him. That and the emotional drain almost bankrupted us - of course, I could have gone the ConservaRepubLitarian route and just said "Fug him, his problem". Don't have it in me to turn my back on friends or family.
Oh and when I lived in Canada, the wait for an MRI was about three weeks. Guess what? By the time you go through the mandatory visit to your PCP, then get approval for any referral, it's about the same time.
When I lived in The Ukraine, I had a neighbor who had some kind of lung problem from the factory where he used to work. Constant care required. Cost: $0
My friend broke his arm in China. Total cost for exam, x-rays and cast? About twenty bucks. Came home and went in to have it removed. Cost: $1200.
Oh and when I was in the military, I had American government run health care. I didn't know a single officer who bought private insurance. Hmmm.

And you think American health care is fine? You think can't do what every industrialized country in the world can? You're programmed.

NEVER SAID AMERICAN HEALTH CARE IS FINE. I am saying you cannot improve it by forcing other people to provide care for those "less fortunate" before you are "permitted" to take care of your own family.
Yes, there are people that cannot get care in this country for expensive treatments. The charities that used to do this are now suffering under the current administration demanding money from taxpayers, so they can decide who gets what "charity". Yes, there are risks to "making it". You can increase your wealth to amounts that you never dreamed when you were young, and the reverse is also true, you can end up broke (financially or physically). It is a reality in this country. There is no one promising you anything different.
For some reason people that go into countries where there are subjects (owned by the gov't) and not citizens want the same thing here. The risk is lowered by having your health care (within reason, according to the gov't) provided, but the risk is also lowered for subjects to ever accumulate real wealth.

If you really think that those countries have a better system, why not move there? What is it about this country keeps you here? Why not move to expand charities that help with medical care, instead of trying to punish those that have worked for decades to get it?

Again your post shows how programmed you are. Phrases like "punish those who have worked for it" and such show your ignorance of other possibilities. Phrases like "subjects" when referring to other countries shows the combination of arrogance and ignorance that comes from being thoroughly programmed.
Then of course the ultimate display of weakness: "Oh yeah, well if you don't like my position, why don't you just leave America! Nyah!".
Really? So then you love legal abortion? Gay marriage? Obamacare? Because you know, if you don't love every single thing, you should move right? Ignorance run amok.
If as you say, the public option would offer such poor service, then those who are paying for better private service can keep it. Simple.
I alreayd know your reply but it's actually kinda fun watching you regurgitate Glenn Beck soundbites verbatim.

I wish you guys would get you're quoting sorted out..

 

[IndependntLogic]

NEVER SAID AMERICAN HEALTH CARE IS FINE. I am saying you cannot improve it by forcing other people to provide care for those "less fortunate" before you are "permitted" to take care of your own family.
Yes, there are people that cannot get care in this country for expensive treatments. The charities that used to do this are now suffering under the current administration demanding money from taxpayers, so they can decide who gets what "charity". Yes, there are risks to "making it". You can increase your wealth to amounts that you never dreamed when you were young, and the reverse is also true, you can end up broke (financially or physically). It is a reality in this country. There is no one promising you anything different.
For some reason people that go into countries where there are subjects (owned by the gov't) and not citizens want the same thing here. The risk is lowered by having your health care (within reason, according to the gov't) provided, but the risk is also lowered for subjects to ever accumulate real wealth.

If you really think that those countries have a better system, why not move there? What is it about this country keeps you here? Why not move to expand charities that help with medical care, instead of trying to punish those that have worked for decades to get it?

Again your post shows how programmed you are. Phrases like "punish those who have worked for it" and such show your ignorance of other possibilities. Phrases like "subjects" when referring to other countries shows the combination of arrogance and ignorance that comes from being thoroughly programmed.
Then of course the ultimate display of weakness: "Oh yeah, well if you don't like my position, why don't you just leave America! Nyah!".
Really? So then you love legal abortion? Gay marriage? Obamacare? Because you know, if you don't love every single thing, you should move right? Ignorance run amok.
If as you say, the public option would offer such poor service, then those who are paying for better private service can keep it. Simple.
I alreayd know your reply but it's actually kinda fun watching you regurgitate Glenn Beck soundbites verbatim.

I wish you guys would get you're quoting sorted out..

Sorry! If you get confused, it's easy. dblack will be the one whose every word comes from FOX and Gomerville USA.

Seriously though, I know I get it screwed up sometimes - especially when there's ginormous photos or something I don't want to include.

 

[logical4u]

What kind of healthcare did you require in those other countries? Was it long-term care? Was it a quick stitch and gone, care?

If you talk to people that needed serious care (not a medical emergency of setting a bone or stitches), there is a wait in gov't health care in foreign countries. In many cases of "elderly patients" (what Obama care has re-defines as "units"), health-care is denied for joint replacements, long-term cancer treatment, etc. If you want to do the research on the care of the elderly (the wealthy), look it up. In this country, up to this administration, we have looked at the elderly as "humans". They deserve the same rights (spend their resources any way they want to spend them, even if it is healthcare) that everyone else in this country has. If, you invest in "age warfare" (the elderly are of no social value and medical care should be: 'give 'em a pill') to take their resources (wealth), you are setting yourself and the country to repeat Hitler's German philosophies. I know you believe that I am blowing this out of proportion, and that this can never happen here. It is because you want this to happen (to take others' wealth, but you do not want to be aware that it is happening), Terry Schrivo, embryos being created for experimentation and then killed, abortion promoted as the answer to bad decisions, etc are signs that it is already happening, and that many of the adversaries of the elderly are welcoming it.

Youare SO programmed. Seriously. I've lived long term in other countries all over the world.
You need a hip replacement in America and guess what? You're not getting it AT ALL. Not if you work at Wal-Mart, the Dollar Store, McDonald's, many small businesses, any casino, or are unemployed.
Our neighbor in Sugar Land (TX) was a fine Republican (as most Houstonians are) his whole life. He had an engineering degree and worked at a utility with great benefits for twenty years. His wife stayed home and had a debilitating disease (might have been Parkinson's, I can't remember). They a nice house, money in the pension fund and did all those things ConservaRepubs told them too. Then ENRON went under. They lost everything - including their health insurance.
My brother got cancer. He HAD insurance through the painting contractor he worked for but it wan't that great. But it still ended up costing me between $6 - $9K a month to take care of him. That and the emotional drain almost bankrupted us - of course, I could have gone the ConservaRepubLitarian route and just said "Fug him, his problem". Don't have it in me to turn my back on friends or family.
Oh and when I lived in Canada, the wait for an MRI was about three weeks. Guess what? By the time you go through the mandatory visit to your PCP, then get approval for any referral, it's about the same time.
When I lived in The Ukraine, I had a neighbor who had some kind of lung problem from the factory where he used to work. Constant care required. Cost: $0
My friend broke his arm in China. Total cost for exam, x-rays and cast? About twenty bucks. Came home and went in to have it removed. Cost: $1200.
Oh and when I was in the military, I had American government run health care. I didn't know a single officer who bought private insurance. Hmmm.

And you think American health care is fine? You think can't do what every industrialized country in the world can? You're programmed.

NEVER SAID AMERICAN HEALTH CARE IS FINE. I am saying you cannot improve it by forcing other people to provide care for those "less fortunate" before you are "permitted" to take care of your own family.
Yes, there are people that cannot get care in this country for expensive treatments. The charities that used to do this are now suffering under the current administration demanding money from taxpayers, so they can decide who gets what "charity". Yes, there are risks to "making it". You can increase your wealth to amounts that you never dreamed when you were young, and the reverse is also true, you can end up broke (financially or physically). It is a reality in this country. There is no one promising you anything different.
For some reason people that go into countries where there are subjects (owned by the gov't) and not citizens want the same thing here. The risk is lowered by having your health care (within reason, according to the gov't) provided, but the risk is also lowered for subjects to ever accumulate real wealth.

If you really think that those countries have a better system, why not move there? What is it about this country keeps you here? Why not move to expand charities that help with medical care, instead of trying to punish those that have worked for decades to get it?

Again your post shows how programmed you are. Phrases like "punish those who have worked for it" and such show your ignorance of other possibilities. Phrases like "subjects" when referring to other countries shows the combination of arrogance and ignorance that comes from being thoroughly programmed.
Then of course the ultimate display of weakness: "Oh yeah, well if you don't like my position, why don't you just leave America! Nyah!".
Really? So then you love legal abortion? Gay marriage? Obamacare? Because you know, if you don't love every single thing, you should move right? Ignorance run amok.
If as you say, the public option would offer such poor service, then those who are paying for better private service can keep it. Simple.
I alreayd know your reply but it's actually kinda fun watching you regurgitate Glenn Beck soundbites verbatim.

And your posts show that you cannot respond in a logical way. Attacking the messenger is typical leftie/progressive/liberal/communist/socialist/homosexual activist/islamic extremist/environmentalist (choose one) method of ignoring the issue. Please explain how forcing a percentage of the population (that will continue to shrink) to pay for services for the other percentage of the population (that will continue to grow) will do anything to "improve" health care. Explain how any advances will be made when more of the medical dollar, not only goes to the insurance companies, but also to the "added" middle-man, the government.