Is Israel the Same as South Africa?

[P F Tinmore]

docmauser1, P F Tinmore, et al,

In the strict sense, no side ever wins a conflict. Just one side suffers greater losses. The terms winning and losing are athletic terms, a mentality that hardly understand the carnage of true combat outcomes.

But the Palestinians did not lose a war to Israel.

We knew that palistanian bitter bitching about some "occupation" has always been just a palistanian agitprop ploy to pester jews and to defraud the international community of millions upon millions of aid money, of course.

(COMMENT)

In the more traditional sense, it is a comparative analysis. At the cessation of hostilities, which side has the better position and the greater control then the other?

From a practical sense, the side that is "occupied" is not a winner, and doesn't have the greater control. Yes, you can fall back on the idea that an "Armistice" is a draw (no winner or loser); but then if that were true, neither side would have cause for complaint. Clearly, the Arab Palestinian is always complaining about the restrictive controls that they are under.

Most Respectfully,
R

Let me know when that cessation of hostilities occurs.

The armistice agreements, where nobody lost, are irrelevant to Israel's war against the Palestinians. That is a different war and it continues today.

 

[Kondor3]

"...Israel's war against the Palestinians. That is a different war and it continues today."

One that is fast drawing towards a conclusion in favor of Israel, as they continuing herding you into smaller and smaller pockets designed to facilitate Eviction Day.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

There in lays the problem with dedicated insurgencies and prolonged conflicts. HAMAS is a proponent of an extended conflict; thus --- by extension --- no settlement arrangements.

Let me know when that cessation of hostilities occurs.

The armistice agreements, where nobody lost, are irrelevant to Israel's war against the Palestinians. That is a different war and it continues today.

(OBSERVATION)

The day that enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem. In face of the Jews' usurpation of Palestine, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised. To do this requires the diffusion of Islamic consciousness among the masses, both on the regional, Arab and Islamic levels. It is necessary to instill the spirit of Jihad in the heart of the nation so that they would confront the enemies and join the ranks of the fighters.

It is necessary that scientists, educators and teachers, information and media people, as well as the educated masses, especially the youth and sheikhs of the Islamic movements, should take part in the operation of awakening (the masses). It is important that basic changes be made in the school curriculum, to cleanse it of the traces of ideological invasion that affected it as a result of the orientalists and missionaries who infiltrated the region following the defeat of the Crusaders at the hands of Salah el-Din (Saladin).

SOURCE: The Jihad for the Liberation of Palestine is an Individual Duty:

To certain segments of the population, it becomes as inspiring as any theme rolving around patriotism can be.

PERSONAL NOTE: Invoking the name "Saladin," universally recognized as one of the greatest military and political leaders of the 12th Century (Third Crusade), Liberator of Jerusalem, Hero at the Battle of Hattin, and first in the line of the Ayyūbid Dynasty; he became the Sultan of The Levant (Lebanon, the Hejaz, Jordan, Palestine, Syria), Egypt and Yemen. Oddly enough, he is remembered for being benevolent even to his opponents. His forces were not permitted to rob, terrorize, or kill non-combatants; nor were they allowed pillage and plunder cities; especially sites of religious significants. These are characteristics that did not make it into the 21st Century of Islamic leaders. What is odd, the Covenant immortalizes Izz Al-Din al-Qassam, who has the exact opposite reputation and esteem of that held by "Saladin."​

(COMMENT)

Today and days gone by, we largely deal with Article 13 Jihadist ("There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.") and those that further promote the idea that Peace Talks between Israel and the Palestinian are inappropriate ("Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement."). But, as noted in the observation, we will be soon dealing with the next generation of indoctrinated insurgents (Article 15 Jihadist). These are the kids you see dressed as suicide bombers by their parents and marching with AK-47s with the al-Qassam Brigade. This is what will be the legacy --- with the Middle East for several generations to come. A time bomb that will pose obstacles and obstructions to the implementation of peace and the processes that further peace. There lays the next generation of latent Fedayeen that will continue the struggle for control of the place called "Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate."

• QUESTION: "Let me know when that cessation of hostilities occurs."

ANSWER: Unfortunately, I will not see it in my lifetime. There are at least two generations of Feday'een (Article 15 Jihadist) in the pipeline; one coming off the conveyor now and one in the making. They will be difficult to suppress.​

Insurgencies end with the fade of indigenous support, with a lack of faith in the cause, and with the evolution of a new economic paradigm. And the State of Palestine will be a difficult task to drag into the 21st Century for peace.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Hoffstra]

"...Israel's war against the Palestinians. That is a different war and it continues today."

One that is fast drawing towards a conclusion in favor of Israel, as they continuing herding you into smaller and smaller pockets designed to facilitate Eviction Day.

Ironic how children of the Holocaust plan to ship an unwanted minority to "The East".

is this your Final Solution to the Palestinian Problem?

 

[Kondor3]

"...Israel's war against the Palestinians. That is a different war and it continues today."

One that is fast drawing towards a conclusion in favor of Israel, as they continuing herding you into smaller and smaller pockets designed to facilitate Eviction Day.

Ironic how children of the Holocaust plan to ship an unwanted minority to "The East".

is this your Final Solution to the Palestinian Problem?

At least there's no Gas Chambers at the end of the road.

Eviction and Expulsion is much more civilized then simply slaughtering them.

And it's far more merciful than the Arabs have in-mind (and have publicly vowed) for the Jews of Israel, if they're foolish enough to allow the Palestinians to remain on the West Bank and Gaza over time, and to get breathing space to join with their Arab brethren for another try at drowning the Jews in the Mediterranean...

For the Jews, it's a simple choice: Us or Them.

They choose 'Us'.

Quite understandable.

As to your Nazi analogy... it's another juvenile, amateur-hour, failed, faux analogy... and nothing more.

 

[georgephillip]

"The question is not 'Is Israel the same as South Africa?'
It is 'do Israel's actions meet the international definition of what apartheid is?'

The crime of apartheid is defined by the 2002 Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court as inhumane acts of a character similar to other crimes against humanity 'committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime.'"

A couple of other relevant questions include did Israel sign the 2002 Rome Statute, if not;why not, and does it even matter?

Is Israel an Apartheid State?

Is Israel the Same as South Africa?

No.

Next?

Do Israel's actions qualify as apartheid?

"The crime of apartheid is defined by the 2002 Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court as inhumane acts of a character similar to other crimes against humanity "committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime."

Is Israel an Apartheid State?

Yes.

 

[georgephillip]

"...Ethnic Cleansing, Really?..."

Yeppers... although the Jews might possibly view it as a Gang Mikva for purification purposes, instead.

Consider it preemptive and precautionary...

The Arab-Muslim Palestinians and their Arab-Muslim neighbors have sworn to 'cleanse' so-called Palestine of Jews and to make so-called Palestine sovereign from river to sea, and to drown the Jews in the Mediterranean.

And they've been threatening to do that since 1948, at least.

If that's not a threat to undertake Ethnic Cleansing, then I don't know what is.

Goose, meet gander.

"Do unto others, before they do unto you."

It's a choice between the ragtag Palestinians and themselves.

They chose themselves.

Big surprise.

Under similar us-or-them circumstances, 99.99% of the world's population would make the same choice.

The Palestinians are being slowly-but-surely squeezed off the last few scraps of land remaining to them, so that they'll take-the-hint and move to Jordan or Lebanon or Syria or Egypt of their own volition...

At some point, those who don't take the hint, will be forcibly evicted...

Eretz Yisrael will be 'whole' once again for the first time in 2,000 years...

And the rattlesnakes (suicide bombers and rocketeers and militias, sworn to destroy the Jews) in their midst will be nothing more than a quickly fading bad memory, as the so-called Palestinians scatter and assimilate and quickly lose their newfound and temporary cohesion...

Population shifts happen all the time...

Several of them within living memory, including some large-scale ones in Europe after the Allies had won WWII...

This will be nothing different, and that particular Road Show is almost ready to begin...

A quick look at the Palestinians own propaganda maps of their shrinking land under their control will serve-up a definitive clue to all but the dullest of partisan observers...

Any sane Palestinian with two shekels to rub together and an ounce of brains would be well-advised to get his family and his own ass out of Rump Palestine and to move to Jordan or Lebanon or Syria or Egypt or Saudi Arabia or wherever, to avoid Eviction Day...

More details for the ethnic cleansing roadshow about to begin (again)

"The crimes committed during an ethnic cleansing is similar to that of genocide, but while genocide includes complete extermination of the target group as the stated goal, ethnic cleansing may involve murder only to the point of mobilizing the target group out of the territory.

"Hence there may be varied degrees of mass murder in an ethnic cleansing, often subsiding when the target group appears to be leaving the desired territory, while during genocide the mass murder is ubiquitous and constant throughout the process, continuing even while the target group tries to flee.[1][2]

The "chosen" are returning to the land their rump-god promised them three thousand years ago. Stay tuned for their chosen eastern border(s).

Ethnic cleansing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[georgephillip]

Israel would never try to kick out the Arabs.

It would lead to a nuclear war.

The Palestinians and Israelis will have to learn to share the land.

cause if they can't share it, no one will have it.

Among Palestinians and Jews only Jews currently possess nuclear weapons.
Whose nukes do you imagine raining down upon Israel?
Jerusalem?

 

[Kondor3]

"...More details for the ethnic cleansing roadshow about to begin (again)..."

Vae victus...

Maybe they should have chosen to live peacefully as Israeli citizens back in 1948, when they still had the chance, rather than taking a path in which they have sworn to (1) destroy Israel, (2) drown the Jews in the Mediterranean, and (3) establish Palestine from river to sea.

Better luck in making better choices in the next life.

'Cause they don't get a Do-Over in this one.

Choices have consequences.

They are now reaping theirs.

From the Israeli perspective: "Better to ethnically cleanse the Palestinians and expel them from Greater Israel and give them a chance for a new life elsewhere, than to sit idly by while they grow and gain strength and commit a full-blown slaughter-caliber genocide against us.

That would be a very sensible choice.

The Palestinians have proven themselves Collectively Insane, and unreliable and untrustworthy and savage as a People, and their supply of Chances to Make Nice has been exhausted.

No more chances.

Nothing left to do now but cut the Gordian Knot.

Better to do it by kicking them out than by slaughtering them.

 

[toastman]

What lie would that be ?

Still no answer, eh ??

 

[Connery]

Violative posts removed.

The Administration and the Moderation Team are serious in their efforts to have a civil discourse as it pertains to the OP and any further posts which violate Zone 2 rules will be viewed in a more serious manner where infractions will be administered on a case by case basis.

 

[P F Tinmore]

What lie would that be ?

Still no answer, eh ??

The lie that Palestine has no borders.

 

[Kondor3]

What lie would that be ?

Still no answer, eh ??

The lie that Palestine has no borders.

Refresh our memories, Tinny...

What are the borders of the minimum land mass - under exclusive Palestinian control - that the Palestinians will accept in return for everlasting peace with the Jews of Israel-Palestine?

 

[georgephillip]

"...More details for the ethnic cleansing roadshow about to begin (again)..."

Vae victus...

Maybe they should have chosen to live peacefully as Israeli citizens back in 1948, when they still had the chance, rather than taking a path in which they have sworn to (1) destroy Israel, (2) drown the Jews in the Mediterranean, and (3) establish Palestine from river to sea.

Better luck in making better choices in the next life.

'Cause they don't get a Do-Over in this one.

Choices have consequences.

They are now reaping theirs.

From the Israeli perspective: "Better to ethnically cleanse the Palestinians and expel them from Greater Israel and give them a chance for a new life elsewhere, than to sit idly by while they grow and gain strength and commit a full-blown slaughter-caliber genocide against us.

That would be a very sensible choice.

The Palestinians have proven themselves Collectively Insane, and unreliable and untrustworthy and savage as a People, and their supply of Chances to Make Nice has been exhausted.

No more chances.

Nothing left to do now but cut the Gordian Knot.

Better to do it by kicking them out than by slaughtering them.

Better yet to conform to international law and avoid ethnic cleansing and genocide.
Since 650,000 Jews inflicted their nation on 1.35 million Arabs in 1948 today's Jews can renounce 65 years of apartheid by calling for free and fair elections for all Semites living under Jewish laws between the River and the sea, unless Jews have a devout fear of democracy.

 

[P F Tinmore]

There in lays the problem with dedicated insurgencies and prolonged conflicts.

I looked up insurgent in the dictionary.

The Palestinians do not fit the description.

 

[Kondor3]

"...free and fair elections for all Semites living under Jewish laws between the River and the sea..."

You should have thought of that in 1948.

Or any time, prior to the 1967 War, before "you" proved yourselves forevermore untrustworthy and collectively insane, and forced the Israelis to harden their hearts, in order to survive.

Too late now.

Forty-six years too late.

Hell, the Palestinians aren't even Israeli citizens... by their own poor choice.

And now, with their tails between their legs, and having had their raggedy asses kicked time and again, after stupidly suicide-bombing and rocketing Israel to no substantive avail, and with your land-pockets shrinking down to nothingness at the speed of light...

All of a sudden, you're soooooooo interested in becoming Good Citizens and getting The Vote?

In the Israelis' shoes, I'd be inclined to say: "No chance" .

Better luck in an Alternative Universe or another life.

No means no.

Next slide, please...

 

[Hoffstra]

At least there's no Gas Chambers at the end of the road....

yeah, that's what the Nazis said.

until we learned better.

 

[Kondor3]

At least there's no Gas Chambers at the end of the road....

yeah, that's what the Nazis said.

until we learned better.

Well, when you spot an Israeli Extermination Camp that is gassing Palestinians by the hundreds of thousands and then cremating the remains, ya'll be sure to wake us all up and tell us all about it, eh?

 

[Hossfly]

No, South Africa is now a democracy that gives equal rights to all citizens.

Unlike Israel.

True...

Israel gave equal rights to everyone who was willing to live in peace under the Israeli government...

Israel gave short shrift and exile to those who sided with their Arab-Muslim neighbor countries in multiple failed attempts to drown the Jews in the Mediterranean and to suicide-bomb and rocket-attack innocent Israeli civilians...

An understandable and logical distinction...

What's the distinction between citizenship and nationality in Israel?

"Israel's Apartheid Laws


"1. Identity and Citizenship

"Law of Return (1950)Grants right of immigration to Jews born anywhere in the world. Amended in 1970 to extend this right to 'a child and a grandchild of a Jew, the spouse of a Jew, the spouse of a child of a Jew and the spouse of a grandchild of a Jew.'

"A “Jew” is defined as 'a person who was born of a Jewish mother or has become converted to Judaism and who is not a member of another religion.'

"Non-Jewish native-born Palestinians – most importantly those who fled during the Zionist massacres in 1947 and 1948 – are in most cases prevented from returning."

What kind of democracy divides its citizens into two unequal classes?
The same kind Chicago enjoyed in the 1950s?

Israel's Apartheid Laws

Since the laws in Israel apply equality to all groups, I don't know why Georgie Boy is so hot about it, especially when a Black person like the leader of South Africa's daughter says there is no apartheid in Israel. Are you calling a fellow Black like she is a liar, Georgie Boy? Meanwhile, of course, you will never find Georgie Boy complaining about the actual apartheid in the Muslim world. Evidently he has no problem with the lighter-skinned Arabs in Libya keeping the Blacks in cages like in a zoo or with the President of Sudan saying he wants to rid his country of Black tribes. No Jews are involved, so Georgie Boy can't be bothered with what is happening to Blacks in various places. And, Georgie Boy, even someone like you has to be aware that each country can make up their own immigration laws. I am sure you would not be happy with some of the laws elsewhere either.

Israel is NOT apartheid state, says South African leader's daughter - Israel Today | Israel News

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Of course not, and you don't see themselves as terrorist either. It doesn't make your interpretation true.

There in lays the problem with dedicated insurgencies and prolonged conflicts.

I looked up insurgent in the dictionary.

The Palestinians do not fit the description.

(OBSERVATION)

Insurgents seek to gain power to overthrow or force change of a governing authority.

Insurgency is an internal threat that uses subversion and violence to reach political ends. Conversely, counterinsurgents seek to defeat insurgents and address core grievances to prevent insurgency’s expansion or Executive Summary regeneration. Typically the insurgents will solicit or be offered some type of support from state or non-state actors,
which can include transnational terrorists who take advantage of the situation for their own benefit. Affected nations may request United States support in countering an insurgency, which is typically the circumstances under which US forces become involved in counterinsurgency (COIN) operations.

SOURCE: Foundation for Counterinsurgency

The Occupation Force (Israel) and the State of Israel are "governing authorities."

Most Respectfully,
R