Is it moral for God to punish us?

Is it moral for God to punish us?

Is it moral for an all-knowing and all-powerful God to set in motion a history that he designs and then condemns others for?

We live in a history that God has set up and is fully responsible for. God, punishing man, who can do nothing but follow God’s plan and the nature God has put in us, is having innocent people suffer for the wrongs God himself has pre-destined and which cannot be altered.

For example.

God chose to have Jesus sacrificed. God, in his planning book would also have decided who would kill Jesus. There would be no way for that man to not kill Jesus or God’s plan would fall off the rails and in this case, we would not have a messiah or scapegoat to ride into heaven.

Some will say we have free will but as shown in the example above, Jesus’ killer could not refrain from killing Jesus without derailing God’s plan. Further, to pre-destine any one action or condition within a history changes all other conditions and pre-destines all conditions within the plan. Think the butterfly effect.

Having said the above and having shown that we have no free will if anything is pre-destined, I think it would be quite immoral for God to judge or punish us for being and doing exactly what he pre-ordained for us in his plan. We have no choice and to punish us is immoral.

Do you agree?

If not, why not?

Regards
DL
Take a little walk to the edge of town
Go across the tracks
Where the viaduct looms,
like a bird of doom
As it shifts and cracks
Where secrets lie in the border fires,
in the humming wires
Hey man, you know
you're never coming back
Past the square, past the bridge,
past the mills, past the stacks
On a gathering storm comes
a tall handsome man
In a dusty black coat with
a red right hand

He'll wrap you in his arms,
tell you that you've been a good boy
He'll rekindle all the dreams
it took you a lifetime to destroy
He'll reach deep into the hole,
heal your shrinking soul
But there won't be a single thing
That you can do.
He's a god, he's a man,
he's a ghost, he's a guru
They're whispering his name
through this disappearing land
But hidden in his coat
is a red right hand

You ain't got no money?
He'll get you some
You ain't got no car?
He'll get you one
You ain't have no self-respect,
you feel like an insect
Well don't you worry buddy,
cause here he comes
Through the ghettos and the barrio
and the bowery and the slum
A shadow is cast wherever he stands
Stacks of green paper in his
red right hand



You'll see him in your nightmares,
you'll see him in your dreams
He'll appear out of nowhere but
he ain't what he seems
You'll see him in your head,
on the TV screen
And hey buddy, I'm warning
you to turn it off
He's a ghost, he's a god,
he's a man, he's a guru
You're one microscopic cog
in his catastrophic plan
Designed and directed by
his red right hand



 
lets take for example the first ten words of the Bible "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth"......are you saying that anyone who believes those ten words to be fact is insane?.......


If you think that a book written a few thousand years ago by men who knew nothing about the universe is about the creation of the universe you are at best not too swift.


"And the earth was without form and void and darkness covered the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters." Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light." Genesis 1:2,3


The story is about a time in human history when God gave the law as a light to teach people to distinguish between clean and unclean, good and evil, right and wrong, true and false, the living and the dead, etc., in a world that had been for billions of years in complete darkness where superstition and ignorance covered the face of the deep - prevented people from knowing the true nature of things..
so there are three billion insane people in the world but you are not one of them?.....


Thats the way the cookie crumbles.
my cookie is still whole........sorry about yours......
 
lets take for example the first ten words of the Bible "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth"......are you saying that anyone who believes those ten words to be fact is insane?.......


If you think that a book written a few thousand years ago by men who knew nothing about the universe is about the creation of the universe you are at best not too swift.


"And the earth was without form and void and darkness covered the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters." Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light." Genesis 1:2,3


The story is about a time in human history when God gave the law as a light to teach people to distinguish between clean and unclean, good and evil, right and wrong, true and false, the living and the dead, etc., in a world that had been for billions of years in complete darkness where superstition and ignorance covered the face of the deep - prevented people from knowing the true nature of things..
so there are three billion insane people in the world but you are not one of them?.....
Ah. So because a lot of people believe it, it must be true.

So, the billions of people who believed in various gawds before the invention of your gawds were quantitatively wrong? Tell us how you know that.
 
Yes, context is indeed important. Note the following verse:

What was punishable by death in what Jesus said? Think it over.

Someone who they considered froward uttering the name of God would have been considered blasphemy. And according to scripture there was always some people who wanted to stone Jesus almost every time he said anything, and it wasn't because he was guilty of something.

His enemies were trying to discredit Jesus. Twisting what he said into a claim of divinity was one sure way to guarantee that every Jew would believe that he was insane and no one would take anything he said seriously.

By saying that Jesus claimed to be God you bring the name of Jesus into disrepute among all intelligent people and agree with what his enemies falsely accused him of..... being insane..

Think about that.
Anyone who thinks that the bible is factual is insane.

Think about that.
its insane to say that......
People who take the bible as true like to live in a fantasy world. That's kinda crazy, wouldn't you say?
not really.....I would say that people who reject it are fools......as matter of fact, the Bible itself says that.......
The various bibles........... "say"............ many things........... that are not true.
 
lets take for example the first ten words of the Bible "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth"......are you saying that anyone who believes those ten words to be fact is insane?.......


If you think that a book written a few thousand years ago by men who knew nothing about the universe is about the creation of the universe you are at best not too swift.


"And the earth was without form and void and darkness covered the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters." Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light." Genesis 1:2,3


The story is about a time in human history when God gave the law as a light to teach people to distinguish between clean and unclean, good and evil, right and wrong, true and false, the living and the dead, etc., in a world that had been for billions of years in complete darkness where superstition and ignorance covered the face of the deep - prevented people from knowing the true nature of things..
so there are three billion insane people in the world but you are not one of them?.....
Ah. So because a lot of people believe it, it must be true.

So, the billions of people who believed in various gawds before the invention of your gawds were quantitatively wrong? Tell us how you know that.
I see you still don't know how to read........I thought maybe you had taken time off from the board to get an education.....
 
Someone who they considered froward uttering the name of God would have been considered blasphemy. And according to scripture there was always some people who wanted to stone Jesus almost every time he said anything, and it wasn't because he was guilty of something.

His enemies were trying to discredit Jesus. Twisting what he said into a claim of divinity was one sure way to guarantee that every Jew would believe that he was insane and no one would take anything he said seriously.

By saying that Jesus claimed to be God you bring the name of Jesus into disrepute among all intelligent people and agree with what his enemies falsely accused him of..... being insane..

Think about that.
Anyone who thinks that the bible is factual is insane.

Think about that.
its insane to say that......
People who take the bible as true like to live in a fantasy world. That's kinda crazy, wouldn't you say?
not really.....I would say that people who reject it are fools......as matter of fact, the Bible itself says that.......
The various bibles........... "say"............ many things........... that are not true.
and many things which are......and most of all, many, many things you incapable of reading correctly......please, go finish your education before you embarrass yourself further.......
 
lets take for example the first ten words of the Bible "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth"......are you saying that anyone who believes those ten words to be fact is insane?.......


If you think that a book written a few thousand years ago by men who knew nothing about the universe is about the creation of the universe you are at best not too swift.


"And the earth was without form and void and darkness covered the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters." Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light." Genesis 1:2,3


The story is about a time in human history when God gave the law as a light to teach people to distinguish between clean and unclean, good and evil, right and wrong, true and false, the living and the dead, etc., in a world that had been for billions of years in complete darkness where superstition and ignorance covered the face of the deep - prevented people from knowing the true nature of things..
so there are three billion insane people in the world but you are not one of them?.....
Ah. So because a lot of people believe it, it must be true.

So, the billions of people who believed in various gawds before the invention of your gawds were quantitatively wrong? Tell us how you know that.
I see you still don't know how to read........I thought maybe you had taken time off from the board to get an education.....
It's best....... that you stutter and mumble....... when you're unable....... to defend your claims..........
 
lets take for example the first ten words of the Bible "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth"......are you saying that anyone who believes those ten words to be fact is insane?.......


If you think that a book written a few thousand years ago by men who knew nothing about the universe is about the creation of the universe you are at best not too swift.


"And the earth was without form and void and darkness covered the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters." Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light." Genesis 1:2,3


The story is about a time in human history when God gave the law as a light to teach people to distinguish between clean and unclean, good and evil, right and wrong, true and false, the living and the dead, etc., in a world that had been for billions of years in complete darkness where superstition and ignorance covered the face of the deep - prevented people from knowing the true nature of things..
so there are three billion insane people in the world but you are not one of them?.....
Ah. So because a lot of people believe it, it must be true.

So, the billions of people who believed in various gawds before the invention of your gawds were quantitatively wrong? Tell us how you know that.
I see you still don't know how to read........I thought maybe you had taken time off from the board to get an education.....
It's best....... that you stutter and mumble....... when you're unable....... to defend your claims..........
I generally wait until someone with an intelligent argument attacks them before I begin a defense......
 
lets take for example the first ten words of the Bible "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth"......are you saying that anyone who believes those ten words to be fact is insane?.......


If you think that a book written a few thousand years ago by men who knew nothing about the universe is about the creation of the universe you are at best not too swift.


"And the earth was without form and void and darkness covered the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters." Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light." Genesis 1:2,3


The story is about a time in human history when God gave the law as a light to teach people to distinguish between clean and unclean, good and evil, right and wrong, true and false, the living and the dead, etc., in a world that had been for billions of years in complete darkness where superstition and ignorance covered the face of the deep - prevented people from knowing the true nature of things..
Interesting, though, that the Bible accurately said that light existed before stars, something that "modern" science thought was impossible until a few decades ago.


Yes, interesting. but aside from the point.

The bible also says that donkeys can talk. I witnessed postmodernprophet debate Hollie and now I believe.
 
Last edited:
If you think that a book written a few thousand years ago by men who knew nothing about the universe is about the creation of the universe you are at best not too swift.


"And the earth was without form and void and darkness covered the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters." Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light." Genesis 1:2,3


The story is about a time in human history when God gave the law as a light to teach people to distinguish between clean and unclean, good and evil, right and wrong, true and false, the living and the dead, etc., in a world that had been for billions of years in complete darkness where superstition and ignorance covered the face of the deep - prevented people from knowing the true nature of things..
so there are three billion insane people in the world but you are not one of them?.....
Ah. So because a lot of people believe it, it must be true.

So, the billions of people who believed in various gawds before the invention of your gawds were quantitatively wrong? Tell us how you know that.
I see you still don't know how to read........I thought maybe you had taken time off from the board to get an education.....
It's best....... that you stutter and mumble....... when you're unable....... to defend your claims..........
I generally wait until someone with an intelligent argument attacks them before I begin a defense......
When........ have you ever defended........ your......... arguments with facts...............?
 
lets take for example the first ten words of the Bible "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth"......are you saying that anyone who believes those ten words to be fact is insane?.......


If you think that a book written a few thousand years ago by men who knew nothing about the universe is about the creation of the universe you are at best not too swift.


"And the earth was without form and void and darkness covered the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters." Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light." Genesis 1:2,3


The story is about a time in human history when God gave the law as a light to teach people to distinguish between clean and unclean, good and evil, right and wrong, true and false, the living and the dead, etc., in a world that had been for billions of years in complete darkness where superstition and ignorance covered the face of the deep - prevented people from knowing the true nature of things..
Interesting, though, that the Bible accurately said that light existed before stars, something that "modern" science thought was impossible until a few decades ago.


Yes, interesting. but aside from the point.

The bible also says that donkeys can talk. I witnessed postmodernprophet 'debate' and now I believe.
Serpents can talk, per the bibles, so why not donkeys?
 
lets take for example the first ten words of the Bible "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth"......are you saying that anyone who believes those ten words to be fact is insane?.......


If you think that a book written a few thousand years ago by men who knew nothing about the universe is about the creation of the universe you are at best not too swift.


"And the earth was without form and void and darkness covered the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters." Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light." Genesis 1:2,3


The story is about a time in human history when God gave the law as a light to teach people to distinguish between clean and unclean, good and evil, right and wrong, true and false, the living and the dead, etc., in a world that had been for billions of years in complete darkness where superstition and ignorance covered the face of the deep - prevented people from knowing the true nature of things..
so there are three billion insane people in the world but you are not one of them?.....
Me neither. :D
 
Yes, context is indeed important. Note the following verse:

What was punishable by death in what Jesus said? Think it over.

Someone who they considered froward uttering the name of God would have been considered blasphemy. And according to scripture there was always some people who wanted to stone Jesus almost every time he said anything, and it wasn't because he was guilty of something.

His enemies were trying to discredit Jesus. Twisting what he said into a claim of divinity was one sure way to guarantee that every Jew would believe that he was insane and no one would take anything he said seriously.

By saying that Jesus claimed to be God you bring the name of Jesus into disrepute among all intelligent people and agree with what his enemies falsely accused him of..... being insane..

Think about that.
Anyone who thinks that the bible is factual is insane.

Think about that.
its insane to say that......
People who take the bible as true like to live in a fantasy world. That's kinda crazy, wouldn't you say?
not really.....I would say that people who reject it are fools......as matter of fact, the Bible itself says that.......
Of course the bible says that, lol. But if the bible were true, people wouldn't reject it so massively (Christians make up less than 2 billion of the 7 billion people on this planet).
 
lets take for example the first ten words of the Bible "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth"......are you saying that anyone who believes those ten words to be fact is insane?.......


If you think that a book written a few thousand years ago by men who knew nothing about the universe is about the creation of the universe you are at best not too swift.


"And the earth was without form and void and darkness covered the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters." Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light." Genesis 1:2,3


The story is about a time in human history when God gave the law as a light to teach people to distinguish between clean and unclean, good and evil, right and wrong, true and false, the living and the dead, etc., in a world that had been for billions of years in complete darkness where superstition and ignorance covered the face of the deep - prevented people from knowing the true nature of things..
Interesting, though, that the Bible accurately said that light existed before stars, something that "modern" science thought was impossible until a few decades ago.


Yes, interesting. but aside from the point.

The bible also says that donkeys can talk. I witnessed postmodernprophet 'debate' and now I believe.
Serpents can talk, per the bibles, so why not donkeys?


Have you been debating with religious actors and lying frauds for this long and still don't believe in talking serpents and jackasses?
 
Anyone who thinks that the bible is factual is insane.

Think about that.
its insane to say that......

There are some historic facts in the bible but it is far from factually or historically accurate. It was written by men faith to explain their past and the world around them from the belief in a god. They "blamed" god instead of understanding the science. It was primitive men dealing with their fears and their awe of the universe from their limited perceptive.

In today's terms we know there is much that is not factual. It was fact to the men who wrote it, they had nothing else. Now we can explain the "magic and miracles" and dispel the myths. Nature is still awesome, but a petty egotistical meddling god with schizophrenic mood swings read to destroy man but not save him from massacres, horrors of war and suffering is without fact. Even creation can now be explained with science.

Even the belief in a god has been explained by studying a particular over-stimulation in an area of the brain.

The writers were spinning tales to inspire the listening with a thread through it to remember where they came from as a tribe and events that had major impacts on who they are then/now. Much of the bible can be read in the stars as an outline or timeline of sorts. History as we progress through the age of the zodiac from bull to ram to fish and water. Even the story of Jesus, and other gods associated with similar lives, can be read in the stars, like reading book, on the names have been changed.

It is man's interpretation of the past and the unknown (or for them the yet to be known).
lets take for example the first ten words of the Bible "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth"......are you saying that anyone who believes those ten words to be fact is insane?.......
Nobody knows who or what is responsible for the Big Bang, to think you know is crazy batshit stuff.
I guess that includes a lot of secular scientists........
I've never heard a real scientist ever say why it happened and who made the BB.
 
If you think that a book written a few thousand years ago by men who knew nothing about the universe is about the creation of the universe you are at best not too swift.


"And the earth was without form and void and darkness covered the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters." Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light." Genesis 1:2,3


The story is about a time in human history when God gave the law as a light to teach people to distinguish between clean and unclean, good and evil, right and wrong, true and false, the living and the dead, etc., in a world that had been for billions of years in complete darkness where superstition and ignorance covered the face of the deep - prevented people from knowing the true nature of things..
so there are three billion insane people in the world but you are not one of them?.....
Ah. So because a lot of people believe it, it must be true.

So, the billions of people who believed in various gawds before the invention of your gawds were quantitatively wrong? Tell us how you know that.
I see you still don't know how to read........I thought maybe you had taken time off from the board to get an education.....
It's best....... that you stutter and mumble....... when you're unable....... to defend your claims..........
I generally wait until someone with an intelligent argument attacks them before I begin a defense......
So it's back to being obnoxious for you PMP? Couldn't hold out any longer? Following Jesus' teachings too hard for you?
 
lets take for example the first ten words of the Bible "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth"......are you saying that anyone who believes those ten words to be fact is insane?.......


If you think that a book written a few thousand years ago by men who knew nothing about the universe is about the creation of the universe you are at best not too swift.


"And the earth was without form and void and darkness covered the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters." Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light." Genesis 1:2,3


The story is about a time in human history when God gave the law as a light to teach people to distinguish between clean and unclean, good and evil, right and wrong, true and false, the living and the dead, etc., in a world that had been for billions of years in complete darkness where superstition and ignorance covered the face of the deep - prevented people from knowing the true nature of things..
Interesting, though, that the Bible accurately said that light existed before stars, something that "modern" science thought was impossible until a few decades ago.


Yes, interesting. but aside from the point.

The bible also says that donkeys can talk. I witnessed postmodernprophet 'debate' and now I believe.
Serpents can talk, per the bibles, so why not donkeys?
I pray, you bray.......
 
lets take for example the first ten words of the Bible "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth"......are you saying that anyone who believes those ten words to be fact is insane?.......


If you think that a book written a few thousand years ago by men who knew nothing about the universe is about the creation of the universe you are at best not too swift.


"And the earth was without form and void and darkness covered the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters." Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light." Genesis 1:2,3


The story is about a time in human history when God gave the law as a light to teach people to distinguish between clean and unclean, good and evil, right and wrong, true and false, the living and the dead, etc., in a world that had been for billions of years in complete darkness where superstition and ignorance covered the face of the deep - prevented people from knowing the true nature of things..
Interesting, though, that the Bible accurately said that light existed before stars, something that "modern" science thought was impossible until a few decades ago.


Yes, interesting. but aside from the point.

The bible also says that donkeys can talk. I witnessed postmodernprophet debate Hollie and now I believe.
It does not say that. It says that on one occasion, a donkey was temporarily given the ability to speak. If you're going to attack something, at least be accurate.
 
Someone who they considered froward uttering the name of God would have been considered blasphemy. And according to scripture there was always some people who wanted to stone Jesus almost every time he said anything, and it wasn't because he was guilty of something.

His enemies were trying to discredit Jesus. Twisting what he said into a claim of divinity was one sure way to guarantee that every Jew would believe that he was insane and no one would take anything he said seriously.

By saying that Jesus claimed to be God you bring the name of Jesus into disrepute among all intelligent people and agree with what his enemies falsely accused him of..... being insane..

Think about that.
Anyone who thinks that the bible is factual is insane.

Think about that.
its insane to say that......
People who take the bible as true like to live in a fantasy world. That's kinda crazy, wouldn't you say?
not really.....I would say that people who reject it are fools......as matter of fact, the Bible itself says that.......
Of course the bible says that, lol. But if the bible were true, people wouldn't reject it so massively (Christians make up less than 2 billion of the 7 billion people on this planet).
as I recall it was closer to 3 billion.......in the mean time atheists are what 3%?.....talk about massive rejection......
 
lets take for example the first ten words of the Bible "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth"......are you saying that anyone who believes those ten words to be fact is insane?.......


If you think that a book written a few thousand years ago by men who knew nothing about the universe is about the creation of the universe you are at best not too swift.


"And the earth was without form and void and darkness covered the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters." Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light." Genesis 1:2,3


The story is about a time in human history when God gave the law as a light to teach people to distinguish between clean and unclean, good and evil, right and wrong, true and false, the living and the dead, etc., in a world that had been for billions of years in complete darkness where superstition and ignorance covered the face of the deep - prevented people from knowing the true nature of things..
Interesting, though, that the Bible accurately said that light existed before stars, something that "modern" science thought was impossible until a few decades ago.


Yes, interesting. but aside from the point.

The bible also says that donkeys can talk. I witnessed postmodernprophet 'debate' and now I believe.
Serpents can talk, per the bibles, so why not donkeys?
Again, it does not say that. It says that one did, at one time.
 

Forum List

Back
Top