Is It Necessary to Believe in the Virgin Birth?

[jwoodie]

I consider myself to be a Christian, but I do not place much importance on the idea of a virgin birth. After all, if Jesus did not have any other chromosomes, he would have been a female clone of Mary. This also raises the question of whether Jesus was a human being who died on the Cross or a representation of God with a temporary mortal body. If the latter, why was his body removed from the Tomb and how did it ascend into Heaven?

However, I also think that the above questions in no way diminish the authenticity of His teachings. Where have I gone wrong? Am I still a Christian?

 

[Avatar4321]

He had Chromosones from His Father: God.

Christ's body is immoral. The resurrection is meaningless if it was a temporary body. And the resurrection is key for a fullness of joy.

I see little reason to doubt the virgin birth. Science could impregnate a virgin today. Why would it be unthinkable that God could do it 2000 years ago?

 

[uscitizen]

He had Chromosones from His Father: God.

Christ's body is immoral. The resurrection is meaningless if it was a temporary body. And the resurrection is key for a fullness of joy.

I see little reason to doubt the virgin birth. Science could impregnate a virgin today. Why would it be unthinkable that God could do it 2000 years ago?

So the immaculate conception was not a miracle?

 

[Avatar4321]

He had Chromosones from His Father: God.

Christ's body is immoral. The resurrection is meaningless if it was a temporary body. And the resurrection is key for a fullness of joy.

I see little reason to doubt the virgin birth. Science could impregnate a virgin today. Why would it be unthinkable that God could do it 2000 years ago?

So the immaculate conception was not a miracle?

Immaculate conception is a catholic doctrine that Mary was free from sin from her birth. It has nothing to do with the virgin birth which is a Christian doctrine in general.

And since no one claimed the virgin birth isn't a miracle, your question is moot.

 

[jwoodie]

He had Chromosones from His Father: God.

Christ's body is immoral. The resurrection is meaningless if it was a temporary body. And the resurrection is key for a fullness of joy.

I see little reason to doubt the virgin birth. Science could impregnate a virgin today. Why would it be unthinkable that God could do it 2000 years ago?

I was hoping for a reasoned discussion:

1. Was Jesus a human being? If so, wouldn't he have a full set of human chromosomes?

2. If his resurrected body ascended into Heaven, is Heaven a physical place?

3. Science can create a clone from an unfertilized egg. Otherwise, it must have another set of chromosomes/DNA.

What if Jesus was simply the greatest of all prophets? Would that negate His teachings and destroy the Christian religion?

 

[there4eyeM]

Jesus taught in parables. Take the rest in the same way, and you have a fine view of the universe.

 

[Avatar4321]

He had Chromosones from His Father: God.

Christ's body is immoral. The resurrection is meaningless if it was a temporary body. And the resurrection is key for a fullness of joy.

I see little reason to doubt the virgin birth. Science could impregnate a virgin today. Why would it be unthinkable that God could do it 2000 years ago?

I was hoping for a reasoned discussion:

1. Was Jesus a human being? If so, wouldn't he have a full set of human chromosomes?

2. If his resurrected body ascended into Heaven, is Heaven a physical place?

3. Science can create a clone from an unfertilized egg. Otherwise, it must have another set of chromosomes/DNA.

What if Jesus was simply the greatest of all prophets? Would that negate His teachings and destroy the Christian religion?

Nothing wrong with looking for a reasoned discussion.

1) Yes, He had a full set of human chromosones. Half those chromosones came from His Mother. Half from His Father: God. The only difference is unlike the rest of us, His Father was an Eternal Man. There is a reason Christ used "Son of God" and "Son of Man" interchangibly. The dirty little secret in the scriptures is that God and man are the same species. We are simply in different stages of development.

2) Yes.

3) Not really a question. More of a statement. But I dont think you are correct. im pretty sure they need a full set of chromosones regardless.

4) If Christ isn't the Son of God as He claimed, then yes, Christianity would be untrue. Christ is either who He claimed to be or He is a false teacher/mad man. There is no middle ground for it.

 

[Avatar4321]

Jesus taught in parables. Take the rest in the same way, and you have a fine view of the universe.

Fine view doesn't necessarily equate to a correct view.

Personally, id much rather have a correct view. Which is why it's so important to seek out and understand the truth to the best of our abilities. If we build our lives on things we like that aren't correct, instead of the truth, then our lives are built on shaky foundations. It's like Christ's story about the wise man and the foolish man who were building their homes.

 

[t_polkow]

I consider myself to be a Christian, but I do not place much importance on the idea of a virgin birth. After all, if Jesus did not have any other chromosomes, he would have been a female clone of Mary. This also raises the question of whether Jesus was a human being who died on the Cross or a representation of God with a temporary mortal body. If the latter, why was his body removed from the Tomb and how did it ascend into Heaven?

However, I also think that the above questions in no way diminish the authenticity of His teachings. Where have I gone wrong? Am I still a Christian?

For nearly two millennia the Church has insisted that the Hebrew word almah עַלְמָה can only mean “virgin.” This is a vital position for defenders of Christianity to take because Matthew 1:22-23 translates alma in Isaiah 7:14 as “virgin.” The first Gospel quotes this wellknown verse to provide the only “Old Testament” proof text for the supposed virgin birth of Jesus. The stakes are high for Christendom. If the Hebrew word alma does not mean a virgin, Matthew crudely misquoted the prophet Isaiah, and both a key tenet of Christianity and the credibility of the first Gospel collapses.

How accurate is this Christian claim? The only place to explore this assertion is in the Jewish Scriptures. If the Hebrew word alma means virgin, then each usage in the Bible must be either a clear reference to a virgin or at the very least appear ambiguous. The word alma appears in the Jewish Scriptures seven times in the feminine and twice in the masculine. If even one reference refers to a woman who is clearly not a virgin, then Matthew’s rendition of Isaiah 7:14 becomes untenable.

The word Alma which the christian misinterpreted means young maiden not virgin. I believe the New international version of the christian bible has corrected that misinterperation

 

[Avatar4321]

I consider myself to be a Christian, but I do not place much importance on the idea of a virgin birth. After all, if Jesus did not have any other chromosomes, he would have been a female clone of Mary. This also raises the question of whether Jesus was a human being who died on the Cross or a representation of God with a temporary mortal body. If the latter, why was his body removed from the Tomb and how did it ascend into Heaven?

However, I also think that the above questions in no way diminish the authenticity of His teachings. Where have I gone wrong? Am I still a Christian?

For nearly two millennia the Church has insisted that the Hebrew word almah עַלְמָה can only mean “virgin.” This is a vital position for defenders of Christianity to take because Matthew 1:22-23 translates alma in Isaiah 7:14 as “virgin.” The first Gospel quotes this wellknown verse to provide the only “Old Testament” proof text for the supposed virgin birth of Jesus. The stakes are high for Christendom. If the Hebrew word alma does not mean a virgin, Matthew crudely misquoted the prophet Isaiah, and both a key tenet of Christianity and the credibility of the first Gospel collapses.

How accurate is this Christian claim? The only place to explore this assertion is in the Jewish Scriptures. If the Hebrew word alma means virgin, then each usage in the Bible must be either a clear reference to a virgin or at the very least appear ambiguous. The word alma appears in the Jewish Scriptures seven times in the feminine and twice in the masculine. If even one reference refers to a woman who is clearly not a virgin, then Matthew’s rendition of Isaiah 7:14 becomes untenable.

The word Alma which the christian misinterpreted means young maiden not virgin. I believe the New international version of the christian bible has corrected that misinterperation

The passage means virgin. If all it meant was "young maiden" then the prediction wouldnt be that miraculous. After all, young maidens get pregnant all the time. Now a virgin getting pregnant, that would be a sign.

Considering Matthew was alot closer to the original, im willing to conclude that he had a more accurate viewpoint of what the language meant at the time he was writing. Language can change. It's possible the word means something different now than it did then.

Who knows. Not a huge point. The passage is still fulfilled with the birth of Christ. Whether you interpret it as virgin or young maiden, Mary still qualifies in both regards and Christ was still born to her.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

Yes it is nessaccary for both Christians and Muslims, at least I hope they both believe that. But religion wise it is of course nessecary. The willingness to believe so is on the indivual. But it's supposed to be believed.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

Avatar what the heck are you saying? Jesus doesn't have chromosomes from a 'Father' and that just sounds plain wrong that you would infer Mary and the 'Father' had this child. God has no chromosomes. What a weird thing to say.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

He had Chromosones from His Father: God.

Christ's body is immoral. The resurrection is meaningless if it was a temporary body. And the resurrection is key for a fullness of joy.

I see little reason to doubt the virgin birth. Science could impregnate a virgin today. Why would it be unthinkable that God could do it 2000 years ago?

I was hoping for a reasoned discussion:

1. Was Jesus a human being? If so, wouldn't he have a full set of human chromosomes?

2. If his resurrected body ascended into Heaven, is Heaven a physical place?

3. Science can create a clone from an unfertilized egg. Otherwise, it must have another set of chromosomes/DNA.

What if Jesus was simply the greatest of all prophets? Would that negate His teachings and destroy the Christian religion?

1. Yes he was. Naturally.

2. Heaven is the Universe. I'm not exactly how sure Christian doctrine represents it. But in Islam heaven is not Paradise. These are two distinct destinations.

For your last sentence, I agree with you that Jesus being a Prophet would not really negate the Christian religion. You are looking the right way.

 

[Avatar4321]

Avatar what the heck are you saying? Jesus doesn't have chromosomes from a 'Father' and that just sounds plain wrong that you would infer Mary and the 'Father' had this child. God has no chromosomes. What a weird thing to say.

You mean the idea that Jesus Christ is literally the Son of God. Not weird at all. I mean the concept is over 2000 years old. The New Testament is pretty clear on the topic. It's been around longer than Islam.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

No it's not literal. Wow are you saying something horrific. That's your own creation. God doesn't have children and neither does he have chromosomes. God is unlike us. God have mercy, where do you get this stuff from?

 

[BecauseIKnow]

Doesn't the book of Matthew say it was a miracle from the Holy Spirit? Immaculate conception?

 

[Avatar4321]

No it's not literal. Wow are you saying something horrific. That's your own creation. God doesn't have children and neither does he have chromosomes. God is unlike us. God have mercy, where do you get this stuff from?

God is literally the Father of the Son. But dont take my word for it. Ask Him.

God is very much like us. We were created in His Image. We are His children. We know Good and Evil like He does.

There are differences. He is immortal and glorified. We are currently in our mortal probation. We sin, He doesnt. It's because of death and sin that we are currently separated from God. Those two obstacles are impossible for us to overcome on our own.

That is why God had a plan from the beginning of Creation. That is why He ordained Christ to come in the meridian of time. He established a Savior for us from before the World was. Because in His infinite wisdom, He knew that we would need help overcoming death and sin.

Christ came in the Meridian of Time. He inherited the ability to die from His Mother. He inherited the ability to rise from His Father. He lived a perfect life as our Example in all things. He organied His Church and ordained Apostles, Seventies, and other leaders to preach the Gospel and reconcile us with God.

And then He gave His life in the ultimate sacrifice for sin. The one person who could choose not to die, who did no sin to deserve death, offered Himself up as a sacrifice for all of those who could not overcome death and sin. And because of Him, every single one of us who lives will live again despite our death. Despite our mortality, in our flesh we shall see God.

Because of His sacrifice, we can also gain Eternal Life. He provided us with a new covenant to reconcile us with God so we can be forgiven of our sins and imperfections. Because of Him, we can be healed.

This is the Plan of Happiness and Redemption. This is the Gospel that God has taught since the beginning of the world through the Ministering of Angels, through the testimony of the Holy Spirit, and by His own words. And He invites you, and everyone else who hears this message to humble themselves before Him. Ask God in the name of the Son and you will recieve your own witnesses that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. It's the only way to know the truth.

We can all learn the truth by the grace of God. You just have to have faith enough to ask. I didnt know Jesus was the Son of God when I asked. I didn't even know if there was a God. But He is merciful. He wants you to come to Him. He wants you to ask and learn for yourself. I did, though I am nothing special. And now I do know that The Father lives. I know that Jesus Christ is literally His Son. And He now stands on the Right hand of the Father.

Don't be afraid, ask in Faith instead. Submit to the Lord and He will teach you things you never comprehended or imagined. The time will soon come when He will establish Zion among us. Join us in His work. You will see miracles. I have. And I dont think Ive seen close to half the things that are possible.

 

[Avatar4321]

Doesn't the book of Matthew say it was a miracle from the Holy Spirit? Immaculate conception?

Again, Immaculate conception is a Catholic doctrine (a late one too, only being confirmed in the 1800s) that says Mary was redeemed from the fall and unable to sin for the express purpose of being the mother of the Son of God.

The passage from Luke is a bit clearer. The Holy Ghost was involved. But the Father Himself was present overshadowing the process:

And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. (Luke 1:35)

How this miracle occured exactly, I cannot say or guess. I dont even think I will ever ask the Lord, because this experience is far too sacred.

If all it took was the Holy Ghost to come over someone to become pregnant, we would have to be concerned with giving the Gift of the Holy Ghost to women. Joking, of course.

I invite you to learn for yourself. Exercise faith in the Son and repent of your sins. Then enter into a covenant with the Lord through Baptism and recieve the Gift of the Holy Ghost through the laying on of hands. You will learn amazing things.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

I appreciate your passion Avatar, but I'm already following the one and only God's path. I don't need anything. But from here it's to pray for both of us for the Paradise God willing and his forgiveness. Amen.

 

[Avatar4321]

I appreciate your passion Avatar, but I'm already following the one and only God's path. I don't need anything. But from here it's to pray for both of us for the Paradise God willing and his forgiveness. Amen.

That's where I disagree. We always need more from God.

And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the Lord doth man live. (Duet 8:3)

God is always trying to teach us more. And He will teach us as much as we are ready for as quickly as we are ready for it. We always need it from Him. We need spiritual nourishment from the Father just as we need physical nourishment from the food we eat.

God teaches us, we correct ourselves, and then God teaches us more. And than we correct ourselves there. Thus we proceed from Grace to Grace, learning more and becoming more like the Son and thus closer to the Father.

God is always seeking to bless us with more, if we let Him.